Harbaugh Pro vs. College
I recently read a post and more often have been listening to the NFL talking bobble heads saying how Harbaugh would not accept the Michigan Job because it would be a step down in his coaching career to go back to college.
I just don't understand how this is in anyway a step down in coaching.
1. A pay raise in the millions is usually considered a step up in any career.
2. The opportunity to Coach his Alam Mater & Develop some great players.
3. The Great opportunity to develop young men into great men.
4. Not dealing with billionaires that even though you have taken them to several playoffs and the Super Bowl still want to trade or fire you as their coach? I really question this one, but am extremley happy about it because it opens the possibility of U of M fans getting the coach they have wanted for years.
I could come up with more but most confusing is has the NFL forgotten what came first College or Pro? Well we all know the answer to this is College Football came first. It is likely that Harbaugh coaching at Michigan would develop young men into great men that would eventually be drafted into the NFL. If it wasn't for the great coaching of a College Football Coaches developing the players into great players there would not be Pro Football.
They use the issue of dealing with young recruits & discipline as an issue. There are more colleges with a greater # of players on each team, but it seems to me that the NFL with less teams and fewer players on each team have some serious discipline issues of their own.
Can anyone explain to me why taking a Head Coaching Job at your Alma Mater is a step down?
This is NOT A COPY AND PASTE, just a point of view as to why NFL seems contantly say this is a step down. Just my own personal view and on WHY HARBAUGH TO MICHIGAN which I am contantly looking for a news update that it is a done deal.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^
what are the chances of turning around a team like the Raiders and putting it in the Super Bowl in the same amount of time it would take to turn Michigan into a major national contender, and that has to be the goal if he comes, I believe? I think the task becomes easier at Michigan to create another historical chapter of success in Ann Arbor.
I don't see how the 49ers would let Harbaugh escape his current contract to work for another NFL team that competes in the same market area, not without some serious recompensation which would then hinder that team's chances of winning right away. Whereas, Michigan is not competing with anyone in the league and the 49ers could work out an acceptable deal that would enable both sides to walk from any contractual obligations without great struggle.
Here's the thing as we get down to the end and closer to Habaugh D-day, the 49ers are Michigan's best ally in this opportunity. Why this team wants to get rid of a coach who has put up a remarkable winning percentage that only certain top line coaches can match, is beyond me, even if management and ownership have issues with the guy.
Compatibiliy doesn't win championships, winning does. So, let'em walk to Ann Arbor. He can prove all the cynics and criitcs wrong, and that will be the last word on college vs. pros, and which offers the most intriguing challenge now.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:33 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 12:35 PM ^
College has bigger stadiums and louder crowds than the NFL. With ticket prices at Michigan of 90 dolalrs face value it's not much different from NFL prices either.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
What the hell is that avatar of yours? Does it exist? Did it ever?
December 26th, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
Do you think Jim Harbaugh thinks his "clock is ticking" or that he has a window?
December 26th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^
NFL as the unquestioned pinnacle of football coaching is going by the wayside.
On the average of course, an NFL job is more prestigious even just considering the pure number of jobs available in the NFL vs college - approx 110 vs. 32.
However, with college football moving further into the big time, with big money from conference TV deals, big donors in the aggregate, and playoffs now in the picture, the NFL and college are moving closer together in prestige. This is true only in the bigger, power conference schools.
You can see this in the money that some big time college coaches are bringing in from a salary standpoint.
More and more at the higher levels of each sport, it is becoming an equation, not of prestige, level of play, nor salary, but of preference in working environment, and style of coaching.
I think moving forward, we will begin to see the lines even more blurred than just Carroll and hopefully, Harbaugh.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^
NFL as the unquestioned pinnacle of football coaching is going by the wayside.
On the average of course, an NFL job is more prestigious even just considering the pure number of jobs available in the NFL vs college - approx 110 vs. 32.
However, with college football moving further into the big time, with big money from conference TV deals, big donors in the aggregate, and playoffs now in the picture, the NFL and college are moving closer together in prestige. This is true only in the bigger, power conference schools.
You can see this in the money that some big time college coaches are bringing in from a salary standpoint.
More and more at the higher levels of each sport, it is becoming an equation, not of prestige, level of play, nor salary, but of preference in working environment, and style of coaching.
I think moving forward, we will begin to see the lines even more blurred than just Carroll and hopefully, Harbaugh.
December 26th, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^
Perhaps coming back to UM will just be a stepping stone for Harbaugh. He comes here for 4+ years and turns this program around and then will have his pick of NFL jobs. He may have his pick of jobs now, but who wants to coach for the bowlcut Raiders? Opportunities may be better in a few years and by then he will have a succesion plan in place in AA (Durkin?)
December 26th, 2014 at 12:49 PM ^
I think it depends on where you live. If you live in Massachusetts it's laughable that Boston College is the better draw than the Patriots. If you live in Tennessee or Michigan then you'd prefer college to the Titans or Lions.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:00 PM ^
I don't doubt that an NFL team would beat a college team 100-0 but the game is just way more fun to watch between two high level college teams because of spread offenses and other different schemes. The fans just seem way more into it at the Big House or the Horseshoe than at Ford Field, the Browns' Stadium or the Bengals Stadium.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^
Do you think the fans are more into it Ford Field than at a Purdue Home Game?
Do you think the Horseshoe or the Big House compares to Seattle or Green Bay?
December 26th, 2014 at 1:09 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 1:13 PM ^
Yeah I do think that the fans are more into at the Big House, Bryat Deny, the Swamp, or the Horseshoe than Seattle or GB. As for Purdue and the Lions, that's defiitely the Lions.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^
I have been to The Horseshoe, I have been to The Big House and I have been to Lambeau. It is not even close. From everything I have read Seattle is beyond even Lambeau.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:20 PM ^
I've been to the Iron Bowl, The Game multiple times in both stadiums, and Green Bay and it isn't even close. The college games are louder. They have more fans at the games so this isn't really unexpected.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
The college games are louder.
http://www.foxsports.com/kansas-city/story/crank-it-up-to-142-2-chiefs-…
Are you just going to continue to make things up? College games are not louder.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
My advice to you is to quit while you're behind. Anything that even hints at the thought that the NFL is considered a superior job (and therefore one that could potentially lure Harbaugh away from us) is going to be poorly received around here right now. People are on pins and needles waiting for his decision and anything evenly remoted construed as negative is getting slammed pretty hard by the board these days.
Think happy thoughts.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:23 PM ^
I don't mind that I get negged, I find it funny. This is who's line. The points don't matter anyway.
I'm enjoying showing people their own ignorance.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:32 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 2:40 PM ^
It would take Harbaugh (or God, for that matter) a lot to turn around the Oakland Raiders but Oakland is absolutely an iconic NFL franchise with a fan base comparable to top tier college teams
December 26th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
Plenty of movie actors who've gotten the movie industry's highest individual achievement--an Oscar--decide to go back to Broadway. It does not matter to them that their play will be seen by fewer people or make less money. They just enjoy acting in front of real people, and they really have nothing they need to prove to anyone.
Likewise, it may not matter to JH that the NFL--like the movie industry--is seen by more people and makes more money. Harbaugh now has won the NFL equivalent of an Oscar--coach of the year award. He's got nothing he needs to prove. He's also not going back to college--the analog of Broadway-- because he lacks NFL suitors. He's been the hottest coaching prospect this year--by far. So, his going back to college really says nothing about the quality of his coaching---as the NFL insiders would have you believe. JH may just enjoy coaching college in the way that an actor enjoys Broadway.
Also, the challenge of teaching inexperienced young students, and molding them into high-character adults can be an immense challenge. Compare that with the challenge of coaching a bunch of high-paid, PED using assassins who already think they're God's gift to the world. Sure, that's a challenge. But is it a greater one?
Personally, I thinks we are talking apples vs oranges: you cannot measure a coach's challenge just by looking at the talent of the players. College and the NFL just present different types of challenge.
December 26th, 2014 at 3:41 PM ^
You're preaching to the choir here, buddy.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^
What does it matter that he flopped in the NFL? He wins 95 percent of his games each year in the SEC. He has won 4 national championships.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:20 PM ^
Because the talent and difficulty to win in the NFL is greater? Common sense kiddo.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:26 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 1:34 PM ^
It's Ian Rapaport trolling us to explain why anybody would want to coach colege babies when he could be coaching in da NFL mans league in Oakland in front of the mammoth 52000 crowd that shows up every game.
December 26th, 2014 at 4:51 PM ^
Read this and had to post. Why would anyone want to coach millionaire babies should be the correct question?
The whole point of this was to say that college is not a step down and should not be considered as such. College Football was around long before the NFL and they get the talent for the NFL from the Great College Coaches.
A Good Coach in either College or Pro is in itself a prestigious job to have. You choose either between coaching and teaching young men how to be great at the sport or you choose to coach the ones who have been taught the sport.
Neither one is a step up or step down. I was tired of hearing the take on it. So posted the question. When you make millions of dollars for doing something that you love to do. Why is either a step up or down? Depending of course on which college or the NFL team is going to determine your pay scale. The Big House is Elite. For anyone to say it would be a step down to become the Head Coach at the Big House I would have to question their ability to report on anything news worthy in the sports world.
Michigans coaching search has been everywhere on the internet from the West Coast to the East Coast, you can find something on almost any blog you care to check. If it was not an Elite program it wouldnt be so much in the news. I have lost track of coaches that have gotten a raise and/or extension since the Michigan Head Coaching job became open. That doesn't happen with every program.
I don't know shit other than I am a Michigan fan, but this much is kind of self explanatory.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^
I'm aware. Ignorance frustrates me. I could never be a teacher.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:42 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^
Claiming 1 + 1 equals 3 is not intelligence no matter how you present it. Again you may not like my approach or tone, but my facts are sound.
December 26th, 2014 at 2:06 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 2:08 PM ^
If you are going to make the claim, support it.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:48 PM ^
So you're an arrogant douchebag on a college sports blog who wonders why everybody's downvoting you for saying that thinking that college is better than the NFL is preposterous and you are here to teach us that the only opinion that is right is that da shield is better than college football.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:58 PM ^
The only thing in your entire post that is accurate is that I am arrogant and on a college sports blog.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:29 PM ^
December 26th, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^
Ever heard of this thing called the MAC?
December 26th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
Come on guys, a successful coach of the 49ers has never gone back to coaching in college. It's completely unheard of. Well, except for this guy...
December 26th, 2014 at 1:23 PM ^
This is NFL level arrogance. Saban has to compete with LSU, Georgia, Auburn, Ole Miss, Mississippi State, Missouri, Ohio State all teams in the top 25 this season and if he wins Orego/FSU.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:36 PM ^
I didn't say JH doesn't want to go to Michigan. I didn't say he shouldn't. I definitely didn't say he won't. The original question is why is coaching college a step down from the NFL. The answer is quite obvious. MANY people volunatrily take a step down in their careers to do things they truely love and enjoy, but that doens't change the fact that it is a step down.
If that doesn' make sense to you, I'm sorry.
December 26th, 2014 at 3:47 PM ^
I don't think it's obvious at all. He'll have, for all intents and purposes, the same job description (assuming the rumors about him wanting more front office control are true) in either place next year and it looks like Michigan has offered him more money than an NFL franchise will.
Anything beyond that is 100% personal preference and there are arguments to be made either way, none of which make a difference unless we know what Harbaugh thinks.
December 26th, 2014 at 4:08 PM ^
You don't think its obvious why the NFL in general is above College in general? Harbaugh aside, because this specific example has to do with ties he has to the program. If it wasn't Michigan calling and it was Texas, is there ANY chance that Harbaugh even considers it? The answer is unequivically NO.
The NFL is above College because it is the pinncale of the sport. 10000+ kids play D1 college football. Less than 2000 play in the NFL. It is the end all be all. 20 million people watch the BCS title game. 100+ million watch the SB. Michigan is one of the most storied programs in college football history and you can buy season tickets immediately. To get Green Bay Packer season tickets you have to put your kids on the list at birth and pray.
The examples go on and on. The the heirarchy is there, it does exist. There is no head coaching job in college that is superior to a head coaching job in the NFL at its mosic basic level. Of course there are always mitigating factors, such as Harbaugh's love for Michigan.
December 26th, 2014 at 4:22 PM ^
My point is that with equal job titles and equal pay, there's nothing objectively better about being an NFL coach than there is being a college coach. I definitely understand the widespread perception that one job is superior to another, but without knowing how Harbaugh thinks that's not really relevant.
To put it another way, I'd be living a completely different life than Warren Buffet if I had his resume and bank account, but good luck explaining how a Manhattan penthouse and an island in the Caribbean are objectively superior to his place in Omaha if that's what he enjoys.
December 26th, 2014 at 5:11 PM ^
But we aren't talking about just Harbaugh. The OP didn't ask why it is considered a step down for Harbaugh, he asked in general. If you remove the emotional ties, the NFL is for all intents and purposes the superior job. This is why successful college coaches go on to be NFL coaches and successful NFL coaches do not go on to become college coaches.
Emotional ties change the game, see Jim Harbaugh of Joe Paterno as an example. But that isn't what the OP asked. If he wanted specifics on Harbaugh he should have asked for that.
December 27th, 2014 at 12:38 AM ^
But emotional ties to college are just as personal as "winning at the highest level" and anything in the NFL's favor. The only two nearly objective factors are job description and salary, and in a situation where M is looking to write a big enough check those two are a wash (assuming he would get a lot of personnel control in an NFL deal). There's not a way to quantify "coaching Tom Brady" vs "office in Schembechler Hall" or any of the other choices a coach with offers from both would need to consider.
If all we're talking about is why there's a perception that NFL is a step up then I agree with what you're saying in this comment, but that's not what was being argued everywhere in the thread.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:40 PM ^
Correct me if i am wrong, but don't a few of the big time programs like Texas, Michigan, Notre Dame and Ohio State generate more revenue than all NFL teams except maybe Dallas?
December 26th, 2014 at 1:41 PM ^
I just posted this earlier in the thread.
Oakland is bottom at $244 Million
Texas is tops at $165 Million
December 26th, 2014 at 2:32 PM ^
Wow, i stand severely corrected. That much of a difference, huh.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:41 PM ^
Tell it to Saban that it's a step down in college. Dave Wannstedt and Bill Callahan would disagree that it's easir to win in college.
December 26th, 2014 at 1:48 PM ^
Ok you named 2.
Steve Spurrier.
Nick Saban.
Mike Riley
Lou Holtz
Butch Davis
Bobby Pretino
Dennis Erickson
Frank Kush
Dick MacPherson
Rich Brooks
December 26th, 2014 at 1:51 PM ^
Groh, Sherman, Dowhower, Gailey, Henning