Harbaugh: the good, the bad, and the ugly?
I've stated my opinions as to why RichRod deserves another year. But I would like to know more about Harbaugh. What I really want to know: is he an a**hole?
Obviously, that's a provocative way of putting it. But I believe--media and haters aside--that both Lloyd and RichRod are pretty great people. (In fact, I sometimes wondered whether people hated Lloyd because he WASN'T an a**hole. Obviously, people venerated Bo, and Bo loved his boys, but he was indeed--and often--an a**hole, something I happen to know first hand. A lovable one, but often an irascible person and quite hard to work with.)
I know that Harbaugh brings the bloodline; I know that that and winning are what most people care about. I'm not asking people to gossip about Harbaugh so much as--those who know more than I--to sift through some of the crap that's out there and point us toward the truth--links, personal anecdotes, whatever. Because the stories of toilets, womanizing, screaming fits, ratting out our academics--to me--don't go down too well.
Maybe a lot of that is lies, or overblown. A lot of people think RichRod is some kind of ogre, while I've come to believe he's a good guy who really cares about the kids. (In fact, in some ways I've long thought he was almost the quintessential Michigan guy--good person, great football mind, and I believe a lot of people could be saying that a year from now.) What's really up with Harbaugh--anybody know?
November 29th, 2010 at 9:21 PM ^
It matters if it means another DUI and we have to can another coach, except this time we can't claim we didn't know he was prone to that sort of thing. I agree most coaches are assholes in some way, and I'm trying not to just be a homer when I say this, but I can't think of any way that Rich Rod is an asshole. He genuinely seems like a nice guy who is just trying to win the right way, running a clean program.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:22 PM ^
November 29th, 2010 at 7:37 PM ^
I spoke with a former Stanford player this afternoon, who had the following impressions from his meetings with Harbaugh: he is a "rah, rah, in-your-face football coach no matter the occasion."
I took that to mean that football is his driving passion that pervades other aspects of his life, and he is seldom quick to censor himself even when decorum might require it.
That's not necessarily a bad quality in a head football coach, but I'm just some guy on the internet relaying a second-hand anecdote.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:38 PM ^
But you're right to ask these questions.
Mine is: how well will he do without Andrew Luck? For all the "lets see how RR does w/o Pat White" talk that happened, I'm not hearing any of this for a far more impressive QB in Luck. FWIW Last season w/o Luck was 5 wins.
Don't get me wrong, Harbaugh's resume is impressive, but there's a lot of deification going on that maybe is premature. Sometimes you get the benefit of the doubt just for looking and acting the part (e.g. Dantonio). Harbaugh may or may not be a better fit for the Michigan "culture", but its unclear if he's a better football coach than RR. None of the coaching candidates from 3 years ago (Rodriguez, Miles, Schiano, Ferentz, Hoke) look as good as they did then. Likewise, Harbaugh may not be as good as hyped right now. There's a tendency to overreact to recent success (and failure).
November 29th, 2010 at 7:43 PM ^
I'd say Hoke's star has risen in the last 3 years.
November 29th, 2010 at 9:05 PM ^
Yes -- I'd say he's about ready to take a crappy Big East job. Not Michigan's ...
November 29th, 2010 at 7:47 PM ^
This is a really funny post. Before this year Harbaugh haters would say "lets see what he does without Gerhart". I think the guy has proven he can coach regardless of the personnel. Listen, you can support RR, and want him to be the coach and still acknowledge the job Harbaugh has done.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:09 PM ^
And while it's a lower level of football, he won big at USD as well.
November 29th, 2010 at 10:01 PM ^
...construe Harbaugh's identification, recruitment, and development of Luck as a football player and QB as positive indicators of Harbaugh's abilities as a head coach?
November 30th, 2010 at 12:25 AM ^
Only if we concede the same for Rich Rod with regard to Pat White and Denard Robinson. Instead I usually hear "this team sucks without Denard, so RR is a lousy coach".
November 29th, 2010 at 7:39 PM ^
Harbaugh = The Ugly
nuff said
November 29th, 2010 at 7:44 PM ^
While most UM fans would take pains to say how concerned they are about how nice a coach is to little bunnies and elderly nuns in wheelchairs, the real truth is that they're no different from Alabama fans or Texas fans or Ohio State fans: they are only really happy with lots of wins. If they have that, they will look the other way and tolerate all kinds of stuff that they never would with a so-called "loser."
November 29th, 2010 at 7:46 PM ^
Probably one of the more honest and up-standing coaches around and many UM fans were tired of him by the time he retired.
November 29th, 2010 at 10:18 PM ^
lloyd looked and seemed tired himself at the end...
November 29th, 2010 at 7:52 PM ^
Throughout this whole speculation of Harbaugh coming to Michigan, has anyone in the media publically asked him his interest in the job. I haven't seen any but I'm curious to see if anyone on this board knows of any such incidents. Yes I know RR is still the coach, but the media can be ruthless and love speculation. So.....has anyone seen such a question?
November 29th, 2010 at 8:18 PM ^
This. And has anyone asked DB about Harbaugh? What is their relationhip like?
November 29th, 2010 at 7:57 PM ^
off the top of my head, here's some actual stuff:
- Waits till Bo dies to publicly trash UM.
- Advised his players to fake injuries during Oregon game.
- Convicted of DUI.
- Lack of sportsmanship - going for 2.
- 50K bathroom, WTF?
Less real/quantifiable stuff:
- Was a cocky player on the field and is a cocky coach.
- Random accusations and second-hand reports of him being a huge asshole/womanizer while at UM and thereafter.
It's up to you how much value you place in 1-5 and how much belief you have in 1-2.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:59 PM ^
that was lame-ola on the half shell.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:11 PM ^
Pretty sure that was #2 on his list.
EDIT: I can't tell if there is an implicit "I" or an implicit "You" before the first word in your subject line.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:15 PM ^
You mean he does what every Oregon opponent does? For shame! Next you'll be telling us that when his team benefits from an incorrect call, he tells them to rush off the next snap before replay officials can catch the error.
November 30th, 2010 at 9:04 AM ^
Every Oregon opponent fakes injuries? I was not aware of that.
Rein it in, JM - you're starting to leave rational thought in the rearview.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:36 PM ^
I don't know about you. When I saw #1, I stopped.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:00 PM ^
The only thing that would be hard for me to get over is my memory of wathcing him get his ass chewed off from Mike Ditka about every week when he was in Chicago (Ditka was an ahole) but I cannot imagine Bo getting chewed out weekly by his coach. Anyway, RR should stay, I think he will, our decision makers have to see the improvememt, have to see the youth, have to see that change now is premature (next year maybe) but not know. DB do the right thing and state that RR will be here another year.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:01 PM ^
Until you have at least met him and maybe spent time with the man, it's kinda shitty to call the man an a**hole. So he wants the best commits he can get. Maybe that'a good thing. We don't see how he is around his players or coaches, but one thing you can tell, his players play hard for him and win.
Maybe he hasn't won any Pac10 titles or BCS games, but he will in a little over a month. Also, who has a better record as a coach at their current school? Also who has signature wins on the road and won games when they were serious underdogs. Also is is 11-1 and only lost to the No 1 team in the country? I rest my case. Oh yeah, he played under Bo. Enough info for me.
HE GETS THE BIG TEN!
November 30th, 2010 at 9:07 AM ^
And that is why I'm beginning my Hire Tony Boles campaign RIGHT NOW.
Dude played for Bo, after all.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:07 PM ^
He doesn't ignore the past. He understands its significance to this program. My biggest criticism of RR is that he refuses to embrace the history of the program. The phrase "it doesn't matter, it's in the past" is bullshit.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:31 PM ^
RR's "it doesn't matter, it's in the past" is usually about negative things -- last season's record, players who have left, etc. He most certainly has embraced the history and tradition of Michigan football. Just because he didn't live it before 2008 doesn't mean he hasn't "embraced" it.
At home games this season, the stadium runs pregame videos featuring RR and various players reciting Bo's "The team, the team, the team" speech, with RR reciting that particular line. RR plays recordings of Bob Ufer's game calls at practices during OSU week. When he was hired in 2008, he invited the 1969 team, Bo's first team, to Ann Arbor for a meet and greet. There are so many examples to refute your assertion that he won't embrace the history. It just ain't so. When he was a kid, he even got his parents to move to Grant Town, WV, just up the road from the birthplace of Fielding Yost. If that isn't embracing the history, I don't know what is.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:36 PM ^
The past is the past, It feels good to mention how great are school has done in the past, and to brag about this nd that, but i wanna see that shit now. I believe in RR, everything cant be blamed on him, its not his fault we dont have a strong sr. leader(s) on def., its not his fault we dominated the 1st qtr. and had 0pts this weekend!! +2 wins in each season, so were looking at 9 or 10 next yr. nd that works for me!
FUCK JIM HARBAUGH!
November 29th, 2010 at 8:07 PM ^
But why did Harbaugh say it in the first place?
"My motivation was positive. I see how it's done now at Stanford, and I see no reason it can't be the same there. I have a great love for Michigan and what it's done for me. Bo Schembechler was like a second father. Michigan is a great school and always has been, and I don't see why they can't hold themselves to a higher standard."
Word.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:10 PM ^
Whether there is anything south of the South Pole. Some are not so sure, but Jim is trying to come to grips with the right answer.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:11 PM ^
Eh, sometimes I wish RR would come out with some more fire in his belly. I think we would see that from Jimmay. God it would be awesome to have "I'll beat the living piss out of OSU next year" speech out of whoever our coach is. I support a 4th year, but I wouldn't be horribly saddened either. If we replace RR early (ie now) I think it almost has to Harbaugh because anyone else would split the fan base. There would definitely be a lot of excitement and polarization of the fan base if Harbaugh was named our coach. I would succumb to it, and embrace the excitement. BUT, 1 more year (with a totally new defensive staff)!
November 29th, 2010 at 8:35 PM ^
I've been frustrated with RR's intensity as well. He just doesn't seem to get guys fired up at all. His whole, "Of course I'm ticked, do you expect me to sing Kumbaya with OSU" seemed contrived and a bit phony, honestly. He seems to use his go-to cliche of "execution" constantly.
I want a coach that shoots from the hip sometimes and demands that his players play with the same intensity that he coaches with, and I just don't see that from Rod.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:41 PM ^
Ok that's not exactly what I meant. He's a firey guy, just look at him on the sidelines. When it comes to interviews and things, RR goes with more of a quietly confident, but hey we've gotta get better kind of style. Harbaugh has a quiet swagger, but he'll also openly acknowledge stuff like that. Like Harbaugh going out and campaigning for Luck or something like that. I just want to see something like that from RR.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:17 PM ^
I want to rub Dantonio's and Tressel's face in the fact that we beat them with better students so that they feel worthless and pathetic.
If the coach wants to join in the chorus, so much the better.
November 29th, 2010 at 9:45 PM ^
How did you possibly go negative 318 points?
November 29th, 2010 at 9:46 PM ^
After the cocktail hour lasted 7 hours today.
November 29th, 2010 at 9:41 PM ^
to speculate on any HC change. We still have one game left. RR has shown the ability to gameplan for an opponent when given time. With banged up players getting healthy and 15 or so more practices, Michigan may come out and win the bowl game...convincingly. Then what? I think this is why DB is waiting. We want something done now but he sees one more game left on the schedule. An 8-5 2010 team just doesnt sound that bad if you think about it.
Go Blue!!!
November 29th, 2010 at 10:46 PM ^
My dad was pretty involved in the booster club at Tulane back in the late 90s. He had a chance to get to know the staff and meet the coaches. He said Rich Rod is genuinely a good guy.
November 30th, 2010 at 7:23 AM ^
and the result is in-breeding.
Instead of worrying about something I have no control over, I have decided my talents are better served coming up with a quick retort for all of this teams detractors after finding success with RR next year. Right now, the leading candidate is "negative, Ghostrider; the bandwagon is full"
November 30th, 2010 at 1:21 AM ^
Harbaugh is the guy you hate to play agaisnt, but love to have on your team. If he became the coach at Michigan he would be loved. Look at Bo and Woody. They were not the most well liked people nationally, but with their schools they were treated like gods.