Harbaugh: the good, the bad, and the ugly?
I've stated my opinions as to why RichRod deserves another year. But I would like to know more about Harbaugh. What I really want to know: is he an a**hole?
Obviously, that's a provocative way of putting it. But I believe--media and haters aside--that both Lloyd and RichRod are pretty great people. (In fact, I sometimes wondered whether people hated Lloyd because he WASN'T an a**hole. Obviously, people venerated Bo, and Bo loved his boys, but he was indeed--and often--an a**hole, something I happen to know first hand. A lovable one, but often an irascible person and quite hard to work with.)
I know that Harbaugh brings the bloodline; I know that that and winning are what most people care about. I'm not asking people to gossip about Harbaugh so much as--those who know more than I--to sift through some of the crap that's out there and point us toward the truth--links, personal anecdotes, whatever. Because the stories of toilets, womanizing, screaming fits, ratting out our academics--to me--don't go down too well.
Maybe a lot of that is lies, or overblown. A lot of people think RichRod is some kind of ogre, while I've come to believe he's a good guy who really cares about the kids. (In fact, in some ways I've long thought he was almost the quintessential Michigan guy--good person, great football mind, and I believe a lot of people could be saying that a year from now.) What's really up with Harbaugh--anybody know?
November 29th, 2010 at 7:20 PM ^
What I noticed as the difference between Harbaugh and RR was at my Thanksgiving dinner Harbaugh had no idea what the fish fork was but RR was all over it as he cut into the smoked salmon appetizer.
Harbaugh came off as an asshole to me.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:42 PM ^
My only question: would Harbaugh be willing to stop and chat with me in the cafeteria? If not, I think he's a douche.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:45 PM ^
Harbaugh - the bad:
#1) He's sort of an idiot/a-hole.
...#1a) Remember the Ravens game last season, where John Harbaugh got fined by the NFL because his guest, Jim Harbaugh, was out in the middle of the field arguing with the officials on national television.
...#1b) Remember how he made Stanford spend however many tens of thousands of dollars it was to build a bathroom - with a shower - in his office, when there was already a shower like 20 yards down the hall.
#2) He's sort of a drunk. There are a lot of "Jim Harbaugh left his wallet in so and so bar" stories out there that we know about. Possibly a lot more that we don't?
#3) Lloyd Hate. I actually thought he made an excellent point with his comments about michigan's academic treatment of athletes...but Lloyd hates him for it...and probably always will. How much does that matter? Not much, I don't think. Lloyd prematurely left the athletic department (a job most of us thought he'd keep for decades). And Gary Moeller has been serving as a consultant of sorts to Dave Brandon. Maybe I am reading too much into this...but it seems like Lloyd has sort of been pushed out of importance?
November 30th, 2010 at 1:01 PM ^
*****THIS IS AN IMPORTANT POST TO READ BECAUSE IT'S 'THE' TRUTH*****
#1) Michigan is NOT Jim Harbaugh's 'dream job.' He wants an NFL job, because him and his brother are so competitive. SD, SF, Oak and Car (and maybe even Dal and Min) are all going to be fighting over him this off-season.
#2) Dave Brandon is going to be doing absolutely everything he can to convince him to come to Michigan over the next month.
#3) In all likelihood, Rich Rod will be brought back (signing a two year extension after the bowl game), and Greg Robinson will be replaced (along with the 3-3-5). Ron English is supposedly an early DC candidate.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:23 PM ^
i think harbaugh might be like 10% more asshole than most coaches, while Rodriguez is 800% less asshole than most coaches. So comparing the two directly yields "Why would you shit on our nice guy coach just to hire this meanie!" from the Rich Rod supporters and "Harbaugh brings the ruckus" from the Harbaugh supporters. It's a tremendous dynamic, no question, Jim
November 29th, 2010 at 7:31 PM ^
I like to imagine your comment wasn't cut off and you were intentionally signing off with a sportscasterly "back-to-you, Jim."
November 29th, 2010 at 9:52 PM ^
No question, Jim.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:48 PM ^
Honestly, I think most coaches would probably come across as assholes. They're driven people who want to get things done their way, right away and often don't care what others think. I don't know about RR being "800% less asshole." I don't think he's a bad person, by any means, but he's rubbed some people the wrong way.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:10 PM ^
He's an a-hole. But he's our a-hole.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:22 PM ^
he looks like a rabbit
November 29th, 2010 at 7:24 PM ^
At stanford he has decommitted past commits when higher rated recruits wanted to take their place. I wouldn't call that not being an a**hole
November 29th, 2010 at 7:27 PM ^
when he wanted history?
November 29th, 2010 at 7:29 PM ^
Not to that level, they weren't already on the team, but it is still a douche tactic to take
November 29th, 2010 at 7:47 PM ^
Don't most coaches do this? Or do they ignore the recruit when he takes a visit and give him the more subtle approach.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:34 PM ^
Shhhh....don't spread this around, but our current coach has done that as well.
See: Barnes, Jordan and Peace, DeWayne.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:35 PM ^
I know, wasn't sure if this was actually an issue for most UM fans or not
November 29th, 2010 at 7:56 PM ^
"To tell you the truth, I wanted to play wide receiver," Peace said. "I told the Michigan coaches that I wanted to play receiver. At the beginning of my commitment they said I could play cornerback or receiver. Then as time went on, I went on my visit and told them I just wanted to play receiver and if I could only play corner then I would look for another school to go to. They told me that it was fine and I could play receiver. Then something came up where they didn't land enough corners so that is where they wanted me."
I talked to him when he said he wanted to take other visits, and figured this was going to happen. The way he was talking, it just sounded like he was interested elsewhere. I'm not sure what's going to happen.
In neither case do I remember people saying RR took the scholarship offer off the table. The classes weren't full either.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:05 PM ^
Are we really missing either guy?? Peace would have been good to have as a CB this year, but really; if a guy doesn't want to come here why try to coerce him?
I just don't get the point your trying to make.
LC, Moeler, and Bo would do the same thing.
December 1st, 2010 at 2:24 AM ^
not that we should have recruited/kept these players, the point is that they were not players who had already been commits for a few months before having their offers pulled, they chose to go elsewhere based on what position the michigan coaches wanted them to play, or because they didn't have that much interest in UM to being with.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:47 PM ^
Every coach has slow-played a recruit into looking elsewhere. Heck, Brian Kelly just did it to Justice Hayes within the last three weeks.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:50 PM ^
Its more like, hey we don't have room for you anymore after being committed for 2 months* ( or whatever it was) see you later
ND wasn't slow playing Hayes no matter what ND fans want to think, he decommitted on his own. And has been replaced too
November 29th, 2010 at 7:56 PM ^
If by replaced, you mean you picked up a far inferior player who plays the same position, then yes, he was replaced.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:18 PM ^
ha!
ND has replaced hayes with what texas fans are calling a top 15 offensive player coming out of texas. Justice hayes has been replaced
November 29th, 2010 at 8:27 PM ^
But.. But.. He's white. Must have grit.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:43 PM ^
But I would be wary of highly touted white running backs from Texas. That didn't work out so well the last time we tried it.
November 29th, 2010 at 9:25 PM ^
i would have like to see said recruit still on our roster the past two years; especially with an OLine that can actually block a little bit now.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:50 PM ^
Agreed.
I was not trying to make it seem like RR is a "bad guy" because I believe that most (if not all) head coaches do this from time to time in recruiting. It would be unfair to single out Harbaugh for this course of action, though.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:51 PM ^
two different things?
November 29th, 2010 at 7:53 PM ^
On the school's end, they're essentially the same thing.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:25 PM ^
I've been thinking the same thing myself. Additionally, how can Michigan, who once fired a great coach for getting drunk and punching a cop, turn around 15 years later and hire a guy who has a DUI attached to his name?
November 29th, 2010 at 7:41 PM ^
but I'm not sure its right to never hire anyone with a DUI attached to their name. Especially if he paid the fine, and did whatever penalty was attached. I also don't find it hypocritical in contrast to the Moeller situation. I wouldn't have fired him, but having something in your past is a lot different than doing something while in the position.
November 29th, 2010 at 9:14 PM ^
I would not have a problem hiring JH if the folks conducting the interview process were able to decisively determine that he has cleaned up his act and discontinued the problem behavior.
This would involve everything - his behavior in court, his attitude toward any community service, his initiative in getting professional help for his problem, and a strong track record of responsible behavior off the field.
People do have the power to change their behavior. Properly vetting a move toward healthier, more constructive behavior is certainly one of the key aspects in approaching JH for the job.
Brandon would be seriously remiss if he does not thoroughly investigate JH's character as part of his process. It is absolutely critical for whomever may wind up filling our University's most visible post.
November 29th, 2010 at 8:11 PM ^
i dont care if our coach is an a**hole as long as he wins games, big 10, and BCS championships
November 29th, 2010 at 8:13 PM ^
Raises a somewhat interesting, if slightly different, issue.
Would you like to have a coach who wins a lot and who everyone else hates? E.g., Tressel?
Could being an asshole, winning a lot, and being hated by the likes of MSU/OSU, etc... be an indication that you're doing right by your team/fanbase, which would, therefore, win their acceptance/adoration?
Or not?
November 29th, 2010 at 9:03 PM ^
Tressel is a class act. A little boring and nerdy, but I don't think he is hated. Lane Kiffin is hated.
November 29th, 2010 at 9:18 PM ^
but behind the scenes he's considered a snake to those that have dealt with him.
November 29th, 2010 at 10:10 PM ^
Dantonio learned his scummy tactics from somewhere within the Tressel regime.
November 29th, 2010 at 10:17 PM ^
citation needed*
November 29th, 2010 at 11:27 PM ^
What the hell are you? An attorney?
Either way, +1.
November 30th, 2010 at 12:15 AM ^
I work for a company that had some major dealings with Coach Tressel, and all who dealt with him raved about him. Their take was that he was very down to earth, humble, and self-effacing. Knowing that I am a Michigan alum of course they made sure to stop by my office to let me know this personally...
November 29th, 2010 at 7:40 PM ^
who either don't have a clue or are responding despite not given a sh*t, a hallowed Mgoblog tradition. Now let's see if we get some serious answers.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:25 PM ^
Extremely competitive. My firsthand anecdote: Played IM hoop against team with him and mostly other football players winter 84-85, playoff game, lit him up, gratuitous elbows started flying my way completely unrelated to the play. Well beyond the pale, but that kind of thing is probably how he got where he is.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:32 PM ^
By "played against him" you mean you were one of those notoriously terrible IM refs...
And by "lit him up" you mean you made a ton of bad calls against his team like those horrific IM refs who don't know anything about the sport they're reffing...
November 29th, 2010 at 9:35 PM ^
i was a pretty good IM ref, i think. fyi - basketball officiating is by far the toughest of the sports. running your ass off while trying to stay out of the way and keeping your eyes on the action isn't easy. i liked umping baseball much more. i think i missed my calling there though.
i liked refing womens games though, for obvious reasons...they rarely complained about calls.
freshmen games were the worst. i did let a lot of hacking go though. i remember one game when a kid said that i should call all the fouls. i responded by saying "if i did that, there would be no one left to finish the game". and that's not far from the truth.
on the other hand i reffed a semi-final game i think. got some early bitching for some "cheap" foul calls, but it was amazing how the players changed their game and stopped making those silly fouls. kind of fun to watch and ref dudes that could actually play.
oh the good 'ol days.
November 29th, 2010 at 10:57 PM ^
I was a flag football ref, and I was terrible. Sorry to any flag football players in the early 2000's. I was just there for the minimum wage.
November 29th, 2010 at 7:26 PM ^
Does anyone else think Rich Rod's job would be 100% safe if Harbaugh was not available? Seems like most people want him because they know he will leave for the NFL and this is our last chance to bring back a "Michigan man".
November 29th, 2010 at 7:29 PM ^
lots of people wander back from the NFL after taking the big paycheck. My sense is that college ball's more fun. It doesn't follow that we never get a crack at him.
November 30th, 2010 at 9:50 AM ^
Seriously. Bobby Petrino is, by far, the best and worst example of this. I will continue to believe that Petrino is one of the 6 or so best coaches in college football but the guy is the slimiest character imaginable. The guy left Louisville for the Falcons and, before the season was even up, left Atlanta by leaving a note on the locker room wall saying he was already in Arkansas. NFL coaches are takable, especially if they're no good at being NFL coaches.