To the Guy in Section 17, around row 44-45, who grabbed the bag hat
You chose to assault an older man, throwing his glasses a couple of rows, because he had the audacity to wear a bag on his head that had a crossed out RR sign on it. Was he being juvenile? Yes. But you were worse than that, you were criminal. You were not tough. You were a coward. I hope all the tough talk on this board last night, and the liquor probably in your system didn't inspire you. You're lucky you were that far away, and that everyone was leaving so the rows were stopped, and there was no hope of security getting to you in time, or you'd be in jail right now.
I'm not that guy, or even really know him, other than he's been a pleasant guy in that section for a lot more years than you've been watching Michigan Football. You're not the answer, you're part of the problem. I hope you go to sleep tonight feeling like the guilty craven coward you are.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:23 PM ^
I know are team is strugling and were not used to this, but what the hell is going on with our fanbase.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:25 PM ^
So what your saying is shame on the guy for being juvenile to the other guy being juvenile.
Because the guy is old and has been to a bunch of games it's okay for him to act like that.
I love loyalty.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:28 PM ^
he's saying shame on the perpetrator of violence. If you can't tell the difference between petty childishness and violence then you shouldn't be making important decisions.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:34 PM ^
If he wanted to berate him for being a shitty fan, I'm all for it. I have no problem with people standing up and calling out assholery. But to threaten than chuck someone's glasses...that's just not cool, and it doesn't make your point in the right way.
Like Brian's stories...he gets in some guy's face, good for him. He throws a bottle at someone...that's going too far.
One guy gets called an ass...the other should go to jail.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:48 PM ^
an empty water bottle to get his attention. that's a long-range tap on the shoulder.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:55 PM ^
Excuse me sir...ZING!! lol
November 21st, 2009 at 4:37 PM ^
Maybe a little clarification, did the guys glasses go flying because he grabbbed the hat or did he just grab the guys glasses. Was there more to this? Did the guy boo all day and say Rich sucks, etc. I'm not justifing any violence, but there is very little information.
Based on how I read it, it was okay for the guy to wear a bag on his head because he has earned the right by being around for a long time. FAIL.
Both were in the wrong here, the old guy made a choice to bring the bag which opened him up for someone to make a poor choice in retaliation.
The entire fan base is on edge right now, why provoke someone?
November 21st, 2009 at 4:49 PM ^
You're still an idiot, I see.
It doesn't matter what the other fan was or wasn't wearing - you do not physically assault someone because you don't agree with their viewpoint. I don't care how you try to justify it with "provoke someone" or "opened him up...to...retaliation" - there's a line that you do not cross. This was over that line.
He wore a paper bag on his head and wants Rodriguez to be fired. Big freaking deal. That doesn't make it okay to punch him in the face or eat his firstborn child.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:53 PM ^
Thank you for calling names and getting personal, very classy.
My point is being missed, so forget it.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:51 PM ^
It was ok for the guy to wear the bag on his head, because this is America, and we have freedom of speech. Even the obnoxious kind. Though he didn't wear it through the whole game. Just on his way in, and was putting it on at the end on his way out. Not particularly loud fan.
Physical retaliation to speech that isn't threatening is always wrong. So there's really no justification for it.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:26 PM ^
This was a despicable thing to do, and I'm glad the OP made note of it (at least some small measure of justice), but there are amoral hotheaded idiots in all gatherings of more than 1000 people. We've had our pride wounded the past two years and have learned humility, but we're still a great fan base.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:31 PM ^
I generally agree, and wasn't casting a shadow on our whole fan base...
Having said that, did anyone else notice more fights than usual? There were like 3 in my section close enough to notice, and I don't know if I see 3 the whole season most years.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:34 PM ^
Saying something would be one thing, but you don't put you're hands on people, especially the elderly. Pretty fucking sad.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:23 PM ^
How would you know how old someone is that has a paper bag over their head?
November 21st, 2009 at 7:50 PM ^
he was an older man.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:02 PM ^
And did clarify later that he only wore it in, and tried at the end of the game. Not all game. Though, if he ripped it off his head, it would become obvious at that point no matter what, so the question is kinda moot.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:34 PM ^
What actually happened? Did he punch the guy in the face or just take his bag and throw his glasses? Because if it was the latter, although still despicable, it was theft rather than assault. Just curious about what happened here.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:54 PM ^
"An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm. It is both a crime and a tort and, therefore, may result in either criminal or civil liability."
Battery-
"Battery is concerned with the right to have one's body left alone by others.
Battery is both a tort and a crime. Its essential element, harmful or offensive contact, is the same in both areas of the law."
It's definitely an assault....bordering on a battery.
Yay the legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com.
November 21st, 2009 at 6:25 PM ^
So, if someone takes a hat off the head of someone else, what is that?
Is an empty paper bag considered property?
Perhaps that is all that was happening and when the bag was extracted from the head, glasses accidentally went with it.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:05 PM ^
That would be assault, and potentially, battery. I don't know where a lot of these negging posters who are apparently pro-assault live, but in the civilized world you're not allowed to put your hands on me in a threatening way. And yes, taking a hat off of someone and chucking it, even that, in a way perceived to be hostile, is assault.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:34 PM ^
Don't yell at Brian like that.
November 21st, 2009 at 4:56 PM ^
I'm sorry.... :-(
heh
November 21st, 2009 at 6:16 PM ^
To the guy who threw a full water bottle at of Michigan fans bitching about RichRod... Really adult move, buddy.
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:05 PM ^
your reading comprehension is not good.
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:46 PM ^
I didn't type out my post clearly enough. This happened in my section yesterday during the 4th quarter. A guy flat-out whipped a full water bottle at a group of people complaining about RR. Not lobbed, but threw it fast.
The people weren't even being that loud about it, he just completely lost it.
November 21st, 2009 at 7:47 PM ^
It really is becoming a civil war of sorts out there.
I got into it with some guy a few rows behind me. After the VERY FIRST DRIVE he started berating the team and yelling that Rich Rod should be fired. So I then turned dropped a few eff yous stfu before I come up there and he shut up until the very end of the game.
To the anti-Rich Rod people: please go away.
Or to put it in more PC terms: when you are at the game, shut up and cheer. I understand that you don't like Rich Rod, but jesus. Please, shelve it during the game, root for the team and at least pretend to be happy when we score a touchdown.
Immediately yelling "we suck", "eff you Rich Rod" and "fire Rich Rod" after the first drive is beyond stupid and qualifies you for an automatic revocation of your fan card.
No one likes it, you ruin the game for those around you and sound like a total d-bag.
And don't be pissed when a bunch of angry fans call you out on your actions.
[/Rant]
November 21st, 2009 at 9:05 PM ^
Or you could be an adult about it and just let him rant instead of turning around and dropping f-bombs on the dude.
You ever think that you're just as big of a factor in the "civil war" you describe?
November 22nd, 2009 at 2:25 AM ^
I will attempt to say this as succinctly as possible.
You will not step into The House That Bo Built and speak ill of the Wolverines. And if you choose to commit such a trespass on this, the holiest ground of the maize and blue, you will be met with the vengeful wrath of those who protect the hole that Yost dug, Fritz paid for and Canham carpeted. Those who bleed maize and blue will not tolerate such behavior because it is in direct opposition to the team, the team, the team, and everything that Michigan stands for.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:16 PM ^
I agree, you can't get physical. It's just wrong. But F*CK the older guy. I don't give a damn if he's 105, that's disgraceful. He should have been shamed out of the stadium. The guy who got physical should've been removed, but I have zero sympathy for older guy.
November 21st, 2009 at 8:43 PM ^
So, people say it all the time on this board, and no one gets physically attacked. They get verbal torn down and humiliated. People use their minds, not their fists. That's the Michigan Difference.
If you have to resort to that, you've lost the argument. And no sympathy for him? He thinks a coach of a football team is doing a bad job. He's not promoting child porn. It worries me that so many think violence is the answer to intellectual debates...
November 21st, 2009 at 8:48 PM ^
I agree with you: no physical violence. period. But yes, I have no sympathy for him. He was an asshat.
November 21st, 2009 at 11:43 PM ^
Both were jerkasses.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:10 AM ^
where taking a douchey paper bag off a guy's head is seriously considered assault?
if he didn't wear glasses we wouldn't be talking about this.
November 22nd, 2009 at 2:34 AM ^
but it's battery first of all (unwanted touching). Assault is being put in fear of an imminent battery. If we are talking in a torts context, that is.
Regardless, it's a good rule. Do you think people should be allowed to go around and fuck with people like that, in a physical manner (any contact, not "hard" contact)? I mean obviously people don't sue over shit like this unless there are significant damages and all, but laws are there to deter people from doing stupid shit. Had his contact caused the old dood to fall over and break his neck, he'd have been liable. Not so if we don't have a rule to make the initial contact illegal.
Don't anger the Palsgraf.
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:45 PM ^
That's just a legal term used from a distance. It's not a human term or a term that anybody with common sense would really use in real life as a natural reaction.
Also, ABC showed a Bucknut banner late in the game sarcastically thanking RR; somebody ripped that down, presumably a M fan. I assume that was battery as well? Should I go apologize for M fan's behavior to an OSU forum?
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:52 PM ^
legal concept. The distinction is a little archaic, but surely you've heard the term "assault and battery" before?
November 22nd, 2009 at 1:38 PM ^
you really got me there.
he took a bag off a guy's head. just call it what it is instead of using terms with broad definitions because they fit your argument. the more precise the better, right?
November 22nd, 2009 at 12:49 AM ^
I would have complimented the guy on his creativity. I mean, what is the likelihood that era of fans would come up with something so original?
This said, it would have just been smarter to look at the upside of the idiot wearing the bag. If the guy is wearing said bag then he cannot, easily, yell at you for standing and cheering. He cannot easily chastise you for loudly supporting the team.
I wonder how he was able to consume his chardonnay and emental with the bag on.
November 22nd, 2009 at 3:59 AM ^
You know you've hit rock bottom when your fan base is insulting an old man who was battered and assaulted (read the law, cockholes) is being called out because he had an unpopular opinion.
Lord knows I can't stand the fire RichRod crowd... I called TomHagan a Walmart Wolverine a little while ago and am still having an e-panic attack over it. But jesus christ, he paid money to go and watch a goddamn football game and say his piece and nobody has any right to get physical with him because they don't like it.