that is nice bonus change
Did he ever take a second visit out here?
Where is he expected to go?
Oklahoma. I would take Appleby......:/
Appleby might not be a terrible choice. Kid is an elite 11 finalist. Pretty raw, but very talented.
I think he's really the best we can hope for in this class with Morris already being committed for next year. Developmental prospect with great physical tools. Won't have a problem with being a career backup if need be.
Don't like UM's chances with Mauk or do you just like Appleby better?
I see Kiel at Oklahoma, and Mauk at ND. Not a bad consolation prize for the Irish.
Not sure I agree, when ND misses on Kiel more people are expecting ND to close out QB recruiting till next season unless a rising senior pops up.
You don't think ND wants Mauk? He is supposed to be a pretty good one . . .
The situation is pretty hazy, Kiel isn't going to announce for ND (99% certain), ND told Mauk he couldn't commit when he wanted to (95% certain on that) because of Kiel. If they were still interested in Mauk, I am not sure what is preventing his decision now. Would rather he did look else where, imo
So the ND crowd sees Kiel as an Oklahoma lean then? And Mauk just doesn't seem like a fit? i know we used to have interest in Mauk, but I don't know why it cooled. Maybe with Shane Morris, we only take a qb if he is a blue chipper. I'm not convinced we need Appleby while we have Bellomy as a backup, as I thought he looked fine for that role.
I don't know that anyone knows where Kiel is going except for his family, but alabama and OU are supposed to have gotten the most visits, which is normally a strong indicator.
I think part of it is ND's depth, the depth chart won't change next year unless someone transfers. Crist, Rees, Hendrix and Golson would all be at ND next season. Mauk isn't a fan favorite of ND fans, at least the ones I talk to.
But I'm not fretting too much about it, mostly because of Morris.
If we get him, it would be an absolutely stacked stable of quarterbacks with D-Rob, Gardner, Kiel, and Morris. That's how we would get back to QuarterbackU.
Russell Bellomy!! Kid could be good down the road. Very important that we picked him up last year.
Very true also. Not only do I love him for pulling a Roundtree, but if Boise was high on him...well, they're really good at evaluating potential.
To me, Bellomy is the key to the "Do we take a QB this year?" question. If the coaches believe that he looks like a legitimate starting Michigan QB, then I'm fine with skipping a QB this year. If they aren't sure of that, though, it's too dangerous to go two straight years without bringing in a quarterback.
they took Bellomy last year so we wouldn't go two classes without bringing in a QB. Why does Bellomy have to be a legitimate starting QB? If he is a capable backup isn't that good enough if DG is granted his medical RS? That would leave Shane a year in the system to learn before having to take over the reigns.
The staff will have no idea if Bellomy is a a starting QB type for recruiting this year as he isn't even on campus yet. Did Denard look like a legitimate starting QB his freshman year? If some scholarships don't open up we have more pressing needs then a QB starting with two DTs and 3 OL.
In deciding whether he looks like a QB, they can use what they learned while recruiting him, not to mention that they could wait until after this season to sign a QB in this class.
I think it's important that he could be a legitimate starter. Let's say he looks like backup material (e.g., we could survive against lesser opponents with him but our offense would fall apart against real competition). If that's the case and we don't sign a QB this year, then we could be screwed if:
1. Morris doesn't develop as we all hope he will.
2. Gardner doesn't develop as we all hope he will.
3. Gardner or Morris go down to injury.
4. Gardner doesn't get his redshirt.
If the coaches think they can win with Bellomy, then I'm with you on the OL/DL thing. If they're uncertain, though, it just seems too risky given the importance of the position.
QBs mostly commit early, so they may not have many options late in the process.
Get back? It would be more like opening the Graduate School at Quarterback U. Has M ever had the equivalent of 3/4 of Shoelace, Gardner, Kiel and Morris on roster at once?
They won't. Denard will be graduated by the time Morris steps foot on campus.
I said 3/4 of. We'll have Denard, DG and Kiel or DG, Kiel, Morris. My question was if we've ever had three QB's that are so highly rated. I can't think of a time when we have.
Griese/Brady/Driesbach was a pretty decent triumvirate.
Brady was more of a Bellomy though, in terms of rating. No question the talent was there, but to pull three five star quarterbacks in four years is just on another level recruiting wise which I guess is what I meant.
Denard wasn't a 5 star qb. Definitely has 5 star talent though. As always GO BLUE!
Denard was a 4* ATH. DG, Kiel and Morris are all 5* QB's (or at least that's the hope with Morris).
But some issues with this statement. With regards to the current crop of quarterbacks:
Devin Gardner was a 5* from scout, but 4* from rivals.
Gunner Kiel is a 5* from scout, but 4* from rivals.
Shane Morris isn't any amount of stars yet because it's too early.
While that's three top-tier prospects, it's not quite "three 5 star recruits."
Second, back in 1997, we really didn't have the same recruiting ratings to work with, so we can't really compare.
In terms of recruiting hype, the 2004 roster had Matt Gutierrez, Chad Henne, and Clayton Richard, who I think were all regarded as top 5-10 QBs in their classes.
All from Scout.
Richard: 4* #13
Henne: 5* #4
Gutierrez: 4* #12
DG: 5* #4
Kiel: 5* #1
Morris: 5* #? (obviously assuming here, but it's a safe assumption I think)
Not a big deal, but I think you might have the Scout rankings. From Rivals:
Henne -- #3 QB in Class of 2004 (5 star)
Richard -- #4 QB in Class of 2003 (4 star)
Gutierrez -- #5 QB in Class of 2002 (4 star)
That's a crazy group of QBs.
Rivals would have it even closer than Scout would. I think what we're getting at is that we want moar five stars/ all your five stars are belong to us.
Gutierrez always struck me as the biggest "What-If" along with Bass under Carr. Kid never had great luck with injuries and playing time, but he always seemed like a potential stud when you would hear about him during practice.
He probably would have been. He didn't look too bad when he had playing time and the guy is in the NFL now so he's got to be solid.
Happy for him I always felt bad when Henne replaced him and he never had a chance to win the starting job back.
Also, for what it's worth, I never think it's safe to assume that a junior-to-be will be rated a 5*. Just too many unknowns (though I'm thrilled that Morris is coming).
True enough. He did walk away with that camp MVP award that Kiel didn't get though.
Whether or not he's a 5*, Morris will be a very highly rated QB which is all that matters for our comparison. I'm glad that this is possible to debate. I wish this could happen every 6-7 years.
Griese, Driesbach, Brady on the roster at the same time is hard to beat, with Henson not overlapping Griese. Until any of the current team or commits make it to the NFL, they can't compare.
I'd agree with overall talent level, but this is probably a bigger recruiting victory. If we land Kiel this has to be the best stretch of QB recruiting ever at M. That would be three five star prospects and two fours (if you include Denard's ATH rating) in the last five years. Obviously you're right that it doesn't mean any will pan out (Tate), but we'd be officially killing it on the recruiting trail.
If you want to talk NFL (going with one's that haven't already been named), Grbac and Collins on the same roster was pretty great. Lots of NFL seasons under their belt. And say what you will, having Henne and Mallett at the same time was probably equal to Devin and Shane.
Henne and Mallet are as close as it gets (might be better except Mallet left), IMO. Like I said before, it's a nice discussion to be able to have.
Griese, Driesbach, Brady on the roster at the same time is hard to beat, with Henson not overlapping Griese.
Don't forget Jason Kapsner, a '96 QB recruit. He was a huge recruiting coup - higher-rated than any of those (and just a hair below Henson). Kapsner waited his turn, but slipped behind Henson on the depth chart. He then took the opposite career path as Griese - he elected not to return for his fifth season after being offered a job in his line of study. As it turned out, that year (2000) Henson got hurt over the summer and Kapsner probably would have started the first month of the season, instead of the freshman Navarre. Oh well.
but with Shane in the fold I don't think Kiel comes here. It's highly unlikely Denard plays QB at the next level so he wouldn't count toward being a member of QB U. Success at the NFL level is what turns a school into a position factory. Look at all the Heisman winning QBs that Miami turned out that were absolute bust in the NFL so they never got the QB U designation.
I don't think Morris's commitment will be a big factor. If Kiel comes, he'll have a year's head start in the program over Morris. If anything, I would think it could potentially affect Morris more.
Def don't look past Bellomy. Kid has GREAT work ethics and drive. He might not be as highly scouted but he has ability.
Was really happy to grab him.
We don't necessarily need Kiel with Morris. Someone good enough to push Morris is what we need
With Morris a solid commit for next year and Bellomy's potential, we don't really need Kiel but he would be nice to have. I know they want to take a quarterback this year but if they can't get Kiel or Appleby, I would hope they don't take one. It'd be nice to save a scholly for someone else. DR has 2 yrs left and then we have DG and Bellomy behind him for 3 years and after that we have Morris to takeover. They would have to take one for 2014 but besides that I don't see the necessity in taking one.