Grouping Fans
I think I lead the league in hijacked threads. Today I got hijacked into the classic blame Lloyd or blame RR. All the usual arguments were recycled.. I had this debate with a few guys at work and I would like to propose my theory.
Conventional wisdom has Michigan divided into the Old School(Lloyd Camp) and the New School (RR Camp). I don't think this is actually the case. I think we have splintered into many groups and I think most of the RR haters hated Lloyd as well.
Hate the Coach Guy (15%)- He's the guy that hated Lloyd Carr and his stodgy ways and begged for the spread, and now wants RR gone because it's unacceptable we're Michigan. He's the "No Excuses" guy who is very angry and likes to call sports talk radio and thinks he would settle for 5 NC's in 10 years and a 8-2 record against OSU as his baseline.
Don't follow it Close, but the Freep had it in the paper, so it must be true and I'll talk like I know something at the gym guy(20%)- These guys don't follow it all that closely. They watch the big games on tv but if they miss oh well. They are Michigan fans because Mich was always good when they grew up, but are thinking of switching to the Spartans if things don't turn around soon. These are guys you throw facts at and their eyes glaze over.
WTF My Fucking World is off it's Fucking Axis (40%)- I'd put this group as the ex alumni who are pretty passionate fans and generally reasonable in that they bitch about the coach after losses and are happy about wins but in the end they support the team. They are used to 8-9-10 wins and Big Ten Championships every couple of years as a birth rite. They were for the most part willing to give RR a chance, but due to 05, The Horror, 0-3 vs MSU and 0-7 vs OSU, investigation, etc.... they are not sure if the sun is going to rise, much less if RR is right for the job. Some are still willing to give RR a chance some are done, but all can't fathom another year of hearing shit from MSU and OSU fans without killing someone.
Leave the Coach Alone(15%)- They support Michigan thru thick and thin. Whoever the coach is they support. They tend to be more contrarian in their views, because unless you win the NC most people bitch about the coach. They like to use stats and comparisons to other teams to get their point heard. They find themselves defending the coach even when they want him fired, because of the overboard nature of college football fans.
We're Great, We Suck(10%)- This undecided group is more reactionary and tend to be overjoyed at victory and decimated by defeat. Depending on what day you catch them on they may or may not want the coach fired and they may be more prone to the outlandish in a desperate attempt to wrap their minds around a loss. These are the "Put Mallett in for Henne" Denard for Heisman 1 week, Bench Denard the next" crowd.
Did I miss any groups?
December 21st, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^
When should we start wearing our armbands?
December 21st, 2010 at 1:58 PM ^
The don't follow it close/ regurgitate what you hear on the radio or read in the paper crowd is way more than 20% .
December 21st, 2010 at 1:59 PM ^
Eight Year Olds Dude (20%,2%). (act like it, are it)
December 21st, 2010 at 1:59 PM ^
.....the title as "Groping fans"?
I was all set to come here and call you a perv.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:04 PM ^
but now I feel that makes me and you more of a perv than we thought the OP was.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:04 PM ^
and me.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:19 PM ^
December 21st, 2010 at 3:24 PM ^
Good call.
December 21st, 2010 at 6:19 PM ^
Guilty
December 21st, 2010 at 2:05 PM ^
from group to group depending on mood, proximity to crushing defeat/uplifting win, and amount of alcohol consumed. Also, being around bluehairs with zero facts who hate Rich Rod make me a blind pro-Rod zealot, while being around thoughtful Michigan fans makes me see both sides of the argument. Mostly, I'm just counting down the 35 days of DB like the twelve days of Christmas.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:06 PM ^
This mathmatically impossible group believes that the players are not giving 110% effort all the time. They also believe that the coach does not 110% understand traditions and rivalries.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:10 PM ^
Isn't it fun to put wings on cartoons?
December 21st, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^
All credit is given to Shredder for use of one of his amazing MS Paint jobs.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:12 PM ^
The guy on his couch who thinks he cares more about winning then the players and coaches. I sometimes actually feel this way when I hear about guys missing workouts and such and then have to catch myself on the logic fail there,
December 21st, 2010 at 4:11 PM ^
Sounds a little bit like Question Jim Harbaugh's Love For The University Guy.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:09 PM ^
Segregation is unconstitutional
December 21st, 2010 at 2:11 PM ^
Admittedly it usually takes a lot more for me than it does for everyone else to want the coach fired. I even waited until the last year or so of Wayne Fontes's tenure to decide I wanted him out.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:15 PM ^
I tend to give coaches more time as well, but I thought Wayne was a doofus from day 1 and wanted him gone. Right or wrong I always blamed for letting Barry's greatness go to waste. So funny you mention him.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:25 PM ^
THE WINNINGEST LIONS COACH EVER! How could you ever want that sort of success gone?!
As an aside: sadly, googling "Wayne Fonts" doesn't bring up anything about fonts. I can't believe there aren't any Lions fans who've started a font foundry with that name.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:35 PM ^
pronouncing it like Pat Caputo: Wayne Fon-tez
December 21st, 2010 at 2:16 PM ^
This doesn't include the percentage of fans who are about to go insane over people trying to overanalyze this stuff. I'm in that group.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:27 PM ^
You mean dividing an already divided fan base into clean cut made up percentages and giving them labels to further entice ANGAR doesn't suit you? What will make you happy?
December 21st, 2010 at 2:59 PM ^
I'm catching a little bit of sarcasm there...
Seriously, I've started compulsively downvoting all of these threads. This particular one isn't an egregious offender, but none of the threads add any insight at this point. It's just constant re-hashing of stuff that's already been said that ultimately leads to how one of the two main viewpoints is justified.
December 21st, 2010 at 3:10 PM ^
I dunno man. I feel like I am on a Shitty-go-Round. The same stuff gets posted, I become creative and snarky, someone tells me to kill myself and never respawn, and it starts all over again. Oh well. The only two things I have learned is that it is a slow Michigan news cycle and some people take comments on a message board a little too seriously. With my grievances aired, I do enjoy the intellect and twisted humor out of many more posters. I am always thoroughly enertained or up to date with any news that trickles out of AA.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:35 PM ^
I'm with you. I obviously have my opinions but I've been unable to refrain from hammering away at everyone, regardless of whether I agree with their opinions them or not. I think there needs to be a special group (or sub-group) created for us "conscientious objectors of the discussion entirely" I feel like a woman scorned these days - everything CC-related seems to set me off.
December 21st, 2010 at 3:15 PM ^
I'm going to put you guys in the 40% WTF group. This was just a fun little rant I rattled off during lunch. This has nothing to do with CC and I tried very hard to leave my own personal beliefs out of it. I was just hoping for people to have some fun and add some of the fan groups they encountered or bash the % or whatever.
You guys are so sensitive from all the CC crap and losses you can't even see things for what they are or note any irony or sarcasm . I'm gonna make a subset group of the 40% for you and call it .....
The Oliver Stone Group- These guys look for coaching change rumors or negative Michigan slant in any media or sentence.
I agree with you for the most part on all this mindless speculation of the job search, but please log off until Jan 1 for your own safety and the safety of those around you. I tried, but I was too weak. I can't just work all day.
December 21st, 2010 at 3:20 PM ^
+ 1 for civilized dialogue in trying times. I didn't neg you because I knew you were trying to joke, but you have to know some may take you serious and start the Great MGoWar of 2010.
December 21st, 2010 at 3:37 PM ^
We gotta have fun or we'll all be taking meds for depression following this crap. I do feel we have turned the corner from the darkness with the investigation behind us and multiple scholarship players at each position so I feel good about things.
December 21st, 2010 at 3:59 PM ^
I was right there with you yesterday morning, feeling good, avoiding work, and then WHAM! More CC threads. I'm starting to worry that this is going to continue well into January, heightening into a roar after Brandon makes some kind of announcement.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:18 PM ^
If your numbers are right, then "leave the coach alone" (where I would put myself) is overrepresented on this board.
I like to put fans into one of four groups based on their views of Carr and Rodriguez:
anti-LC, anti-RR: I suspect that many of these people perceive Michigan as having more built-in advantages than it actually does, so they expect more wins as a baseline than other fans do. (roughly your "hate the coach" group)
anti-LC, pro-RR: This group was probably much bigger before the 08 season. I suspect that what's left of this group is people who are (1) relatively patient and (2) convinced that RR's "modern" methods will be more successful in the long run than LC's "traditional" ones. (Does not correspond to any of your groups. Are there that few of them?)
pro-LC, anti-RR: your traditionalists would be in this group, and also people who have more moderate baseline expectations but lack patience. (roughly your WTF group)
pro-LC, pro-RR: this group would have people with the lowest base expectations and/or the most patience. It includes people who have been critical of both coaches, but don't think that their shortcomings amount to firing offenses yet. (roughly your leave the coach alone group)
Out here on the west coast I'm not around many M fans, so I don't know how big each group is.
December 21st, 2010 at 4:23 PM ^
I think you could lump a TON of people into the Anti-Lloyd, Pro-RR category.
At least that's where I fit in and know of a bunch of people that feel the same way. I'm not sure if we are a patient bunch or not. More or less - we hated the end of the Lloyd era so much that we are willing to blame 75% of what was wrong in 2008 and 2009 on Lloyd and his staff.
It's more like "Lloyd left a flaming bag of shit on the doorstep that didn't go out for two years, and we're giving Rich Rod 2010 and 2011 to clean the porch".
December 21st, 2010 at 8:24 PM ^
pro RR and pro LC but I think it's a lot of LC's fault that we're not good for the past 3 years, but I'm not in a tiffy about it, but I am in a tiffy that RR gets the axe about it.
To me, if WVU just went to the big ten in 2008 and RR coached them I see them going 10-12 wins. So something happened, I can see some transition problems, but when I went to the spring 2007 game it didn't look like a Michigan team. It looked like 4-5 elite players (Crable, Henne, Hart) were sitting and the rest didn't look very impressive. Then those 4-5 players graduated and here we are finally about to be good again.
December 21st, 2010 at 10:12 PM ^
Hmm. Does "it's time for the LC era to end but LC's earned the right to go out on his terms so I'm not gonna be vocal about it" count as pro-LC? That's how I always felt, and if that meant Lloyd hung on a year or three longer than he should have, it didn't bother me.
Color me patient. Actually, my overarching attitude is one of extreme impatience with fans that treat national championship contention as a birthright. That might have been OK once, but not in this day and age. Too much parity. I get irritated with fans that try and drive a coach out over a perceived bad year or two especially if that "bad year" is like, 9-3. See: USC fans and Pete Carroll. Every program needs (and has) its down years or the fans get spoiled and act like huge jerks. So we're having ours - I just hope RR isn't kicked out early and slapped with the label of failure when in fact we're on the rise on a foundation he laid.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:22 PM ^
for Lloyd's last 3 or 4 seasons. The continuous early season losses, the slim and boring victories over weaker foes, and the predictable collapses and losses did it for me.
I fully support RR and firmly believe he'll get it turned around if given the chance.
Just being counted as a Lloyd (not really) "hater" and a RR supporter. Not sure why the OP thinks Lloyd and RR haters would tend to be one in the same.
December 21st, 2010 at 3:04 PM ^
I think most fans just want wins and Mich fans want a lot of wins. So less wins equal unhappy fans which means fire coach regardless. I don't think it is as much Lloyd vs RR as wins vs losses.
December 21st, 2010 at 2:24 PM ^
As long as RR is our coach and Lloyd is still retired...
December 21st, 2010 at 2:26 PM ^
Those guys kill me the most. I feel as though, where I live, that's all I am stuck with. I have too many sparty fans around me and we all know that's how they all are and my only rationale sports fan friend, is a buckeye... WTF WORLD... WTF...
December 21st, 2010 at 2:41 PM ^
I'm teetering on the edge of the WTF and LCA groups.
Gym guy is the worst. I can't get into an educated conversation with him with out it getting ugly.
December 22nd, 2010 at 9:11 AM ^
I'm struggling as to where to file the guy who just sent me a facebook group invite for "bring urban meyer to michigan."
December 21st, 2010 at 2:45 PM ^
into two groups:
I Need To Overanalyze Everything To Do With Michigan Athletics (a very loud 1%), and
Why Can't Sports Just Be Fun To Watch? (a quiet 99%)
December 21st, 2010 at 2:58 PM ^
"I'd put this group as the ex alumni who are pretty passionate fans and generally reasonable..."
Can you be an ex-alumni? I think that it's pretty much a permanent condition (unless the school revokes your diploma).
For the record, I think that I fall into this general category. I'm an alumni from WMU but I grew up around A2 and have been following Michigan football since the OSU game in 1973.
My mom probably falls into the "gym guy" category. She knows very little about Michigan football except what her 70+ year old friends at bridge club in A2 tell her. They all seem to be anti-RR but can't really come up with good reasons for it. I just let it slide because, you know, she's my mom.
December 21st, 2010 at 3:05 PM ^
got me...just alumni
December 21st, 2010 at 3:29 PM ^
I'm a Michigan fan. Period. I think all of us who read Mgoblog e are Michigan fans. Our football team has a coach who is open to both praise and criticism, but until somehting happens, I support him. And I always support our team. That's my fan base.
Those who are not Michigan fans may join any fan fase they choose.
The blue one with the maize wings is the only one I belong to or care to belong to.
December 21st, 2010 at 4:13 PM ^
My sentiments exactly. I love Michigan football.
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<br>I have expressed criticism and doubt of RichRod, but I still support him. I hope like hell that he wins because that is good for Michigan.
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December 21st, 2010 at 3:44 PM ^
I just want to be in the group of "What is the best long term plan for Michigan". I'm not entirely sold that Rich Rod is the wrong guy for the program nor am I entirely sold he is the right guy for the program. All I know is that I hope that Mr. Brandon has a plan in place for what he is going to do whatever course of action he takes. It seemed that when Michigan picked up Rich Rod, it was from a panic after both Les Miles and Schiano said, "No". They didn't want a third embarassment, so they went after the guy who said he'd like to come here. I can't say that a really blame them for that.
Quite honestly, I think Rich Rod has what it takes to succeed here in the long run but I think he may have too much baggage to do so. He will forever be the guy (justified or not) that brought the wrath of the NCAA down on Michigan Football. He will also forever be the guy that couldn't win the Big 10 in his first three years. As such, I don't think he'll get a fair shake for however much longer his career is.
As for the next coach (I think it's pretty much a given), rather than going after the big names being thrown around, I would prefer to see Brandon go after a Division 1AA or II coach that is a success at that level. Or possibly even one of the coaches at Western or Central (sorry Mr. English....I'm not impressed with your tenure at Eastern). To me that is a coach for the long term.
December 21st, 2010 at 3:54 PM ^
long island fans who became fans when they got to michigan and claim that they got "screwed" because michigan isn't winning as much now vs. others.... thoughts?
note: please don't freak out people im just bored at work.
December 21st, 2010 at 4:46 PM ^
What do you call the group that can somehow focus on one player running for 178yds as such a bright indicator of our future greatness whilst completely ignoring the fact that the rest of the football(TEAM) measurables are a total wreck?? Blind?? (Commence with the "our offense is great" stuff, but its hollow and deep down, you know it.)
I'm of the camp that NOBODY gets a free pass for their mistakes, but if they own up to them, I will usually forgive and forget. A certian Coach has YET to own up to ANYTHING being his fault.
I've heard him stand there and blame his players, his staff, etc. 1 too many times. The man would have to have some serious come to jesus character adjustment to win me back, along with fielding a team that can contend to win ANY game.
He stood in the press conference after the OSU beating and did not even ONCE show any remorse or regret for what HE & his obsessive fixation on doing things HIS way had put those seniors through. It was just all about him...again.
Loved Bo for his character, used to hate his conservatism
Loved Lloyd for his fatherly stature, always thought he underachieved with the talent on the field.
Loved the thought of Rich Rod becoming our coach, figured NFL level talent combined with offensive minded coaching and the vest would be SCREWED. Didnt count on the man being such a self centered person with so litte regard for "the TEAM".
Put me in the A-hole camp if it pleases you, but I've seen what I've seen and if the internet has taught us anything, it's that there is no "unsee" button.
December 21st, 2010 at 5:10 PM ^
I call your group a bunch of assholes. And you are their leader it seems.
December 22nd, 2010 at 8:29 AM ^
Of course I hope to be wrong, BUT...After 3 more losses to OSU with him at the helm you'll be lining up to join me.
All we're really talking about here is tolerance. How much losing can you/me/anyone tolerate while maintaining faith in the direction. For some it might have been year 1 and they were yelling for his head, some maybe year 2 was the tipping point, for me it was the Penn st. game this year when I'd seen enough.
I hope you never get there(because we win big)but if/when you do you'll understand.
Its like my mom always said when I came home from a friends house and commented on what a pig pen it was. "Some people could be standing neck deep in crap and just be happy, thankfull its not deeper, others get some crap on their shoes and just want to take them off ASAP.