Great article from Baumgardner blasting Hoke and Dantonio on the Michigan-MSU rivalry
http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/index.ssf/2014/10/column_pettiness_of_m… Title says it all
October 27th, 2014 at 1:29 PM ^
does he have time to write such an article after taking down the Royals last night?
October 27th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
Both of you, and both of them for their good performances yesterday (there was also a good article written by Nick?? in Sunday's MLive).
October 27th, 2014 at 1:30 PM ^
And pretty much hit the nail on the head regarding both of the coaches as well as the current status of the rivalry. It just seems that Hoke back pedals on some many issues that he is beginning to look very weak.
October 27th, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
Haven't read much of "Matt's" stuff, but I hear Nick is a pretty good journalist too.
Sorry, I'm really bored today.
October 27th, 2014 at 1:40 PM ^
Not much to say about that fubar.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:00 PM ^
October 27th, 2014 at 2:46 PM ^
This has become one of my all-time favorite gifs.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^
beginning?
October 27th, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^
This program looks and acts childish. The coach is clueless, his boss hides in the corner hoping everyone will forget he is there and the players try to act like they are ahead when they don't know how to start playing the game. Act like you have been there before and let the scoreboard do the talking....Assuming you can actually score. The program is truly a joke at this point.
October 27th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^
And not even a good joke. Like, one of those ones where the same dumb guy keeps delivering the punchline and no matter the audience they all just kind of stare at him and shuffle off or boo.
October 27th, 2014 at 6:44 PM ^
October 27th, 2014 at 1:35 PM ^
Baumgardner doesnt pull punches...
October 27th, 2014 at 1:36 PM ^
It's a nice encapsulation of the silliness from this weekend.
One point I do take issue is with the argument that Bo, Moeller, and Carr did something different to beat State. While they absolutely put out better teams than the current version, they also played way worse MSU outfits that the current one. MSU of the 70s through early 00s was a near-continuous clownshow. Look at their record from Stolz until Dantonio and you see an absolutely mediocre program. Michigan was good during that time, but this MSU team would have been WAY more competitive against many of those teams than the ones they played against. Now, Dantonio might just be their new Daugherty and there isn't much UM can do except get better themselves, but the argument that ignores how past coaches weren't helped somewhat by MSU being a pretty mediocre outfit for decades is unfair.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^
Has Dantonio appreciably improved the level of MSU recruiting? He pretty much gets the same type of players that Perles and Saban were getting. The difference between MSU then and MSU now is that the rest of the conference save OSU has turned into a complete joke. Take this MSU squad and drop it into the Big 10 of the 90's and they'd compete, but they'd still be an 8-4, 9-3 squad. This narrative that Dantonio has built MSU into this elite football program is an absolute fantasy.
Let Michigan and Penn State build back into their former selves and MSU will suddenly turn back into a pumpkin.
October 27th, 2014 at 3:27 PM ^
The only MSU team of recent vintage I've been impressed with was last year's team, which had an excellent defense and a competent offense, which is a recipe for big success in any conference. But beyond that? More B1G high-class mediocrity.
They had their chance against Oregon (literally the only impressive team they'll play this year) and got beat by 20. The next best team, OSU, lost to Va Tech and need multiple bad calls to beat Penn State team we beat a couple of weeks ago.
All that said, many things look like giants to an ant. UM is likely to have another losing record in this worst-in-the-Power 5 conference. That's the sad thing. It would be one thing to go 2-6 in the SEC or Pac 12. But in the B1G? Horrendous.
October 27th, 2014 at 3:48 PM ^
The fact that we're not making hay in the softest the conference has been since probably the 70's is just completely frustrating. With the talent we have on the roster and the quality of talent around the conference, our biggest complaint should be that we'll get left out of the playoff bracket because the rest of the conference sucks.
Instead we're 3-5. Fuck.
October 27th, 2014 at 4:16 PM ^
This conference is crap, but losing to 20 at Oregon in 100 degree weather in a night game is not that bad; Oregon isn't great but they still have an outside chance at making the playoff. It's not like Ole Miss or Miss St. did anything in the offseason either, and even their wins (save for Miss St. over Auburn) are looking less impressive. Overall, college football seems more "down" than in years past.
I agree it is sad that Michigan is so down in this conference, but that should be rectified soon enough.
October 27th, 2014 at 7:49 PM ^
Losing by 20 in the only real high profile game you'll play during the course of the season isn't bad? Uh, yes it is. Especially when the rest of the conference being complete shit prevents a focus being taken off your loss with some quality wins.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:44 AM ^
You just summed up the futility that is the Big 10 in one paragraph. Michigan State would've totally had a chance in that Oregon game if it wasn't on the road, at night, and it wasn't so damn hot. Then, they'd have had Oregon right where they wanted them. Just because MSU hung with the Ducks for a half doesn't make them a legitimate playoff contender. Everyone just needs to stop it.
1991, Michigan was fresh off a big win over Notre Dame, which featured The Catch, was ranked 3rd in the country and had top-ranked Florida State visiting. After the first half Michigan was only trailing by only 8 points and everyone in the stadium was feeling pretty good, maybe we had a chance to beat these guys and put ourselves in the drivers seat for the MNC. Second half FSU came out and steamrolled us to a 20 point victory. Michigan was never in the MNC conversation again that season, and they went 8-0 in the Big 10 and finished the year 10-2.
College football is all about what you do in key match-ups. MSU is a good team and probably the top team in the Big 10 this season, but that ain't saying much, and there are easily 7 or 8 teams out there that can stake a more legitimate claim to a spot in the playoff than the Spartans.
October 27th, 2014 at 4:13 PM ^
It isn't just talent from a recruiting standpoint; Wisconsin hasn't been getting amazing recruits for years now and they have been incredibly consistent going back to Carr's years. The conference is down, but the last couple of MSU teams are better than many of them we saw in the 90s and 2000s. And during most of that time, MSU never sniffed consistent 9-10 wins. I never said MSU would blow Michigan out from decades ago, but they sure would have put up more a fight, and might have stolen a couple more wins, than the squads led by Williams and JLS, for example.
And hate to say it, waiting for UM and PSU to rebuild to their former glories is going to take a decent amount of time, if it happens at all. Michigan will be better with a new coach, but it hasn't been a consistent, elite program for way more than 7 years.
October 28th, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^
PSU's rebuilding will take some time because you just don't recover from 15 lost scholarships in a season or two. MIchigan, on the other hand, is in a pretty good spot roster-wise. If we hire the right guy, and that guy can keep attrition to a minimum, he's looking at a pretty well-stocked, experienced roster. Say what you want about Hoke, but he has recruited talent, and it's just sitting here waiting to be honed into a fine instrument. It's hugely optimistc to say that Michigan could turn things around in 2015 with a coaching change, but it's not totally impossible. I think we have the players to make it happen. This coupled with a pretty favorable home schedule, and Michigan could surprise a lot of folks.
October 27th, 2014 at 4:19 PM ^
only goes back to 2002. Looking at 2002 to 2014 MSU's recruiting has gotten better. Looking at average star per player:
02 - 3.1
03 - 2.63
04 - 2.94
05 - 2.75
06 - 2.54
07 - 2.7
08 - 2.71
09 - 3.3
10 - 3.05
11 - 3.0
12 - 3.11
13 - 3.11
14 - 3.27
15 - 3.15 (based upon current commits)
October 27th, 2014 at 4:28 PM ^
Too lazy to dig for rankings (if they exist) but it seemed like Saban was pulling some good classes and certainly a few relevant prospects - Plexico Burris, Sedric Irvin, TJ Duckett are a few off the top of my head.
October 27th, 2014 at 1:48 PM ^
and I think the only reason that Dantonio holds on to the no-respect bile instead of just claiming victory is because he needs it for the program to keep the motivation level at code red status like Woody made the Ohio-Michigan game a war of two rival worlds.
Dantonio grew up in Woody world, and he coached at OSU, so he just translated his hate for Michigan smugness about its annual success over Sparty, as the ultimate fear factor and way to keep his team on the edge, where it needs to be in order to succeed.
Plus pretending disrespect in a nationally televised game when you need a big score to wow the playoff judges is also a factor for scoring a useless last second TD. Football is a competition, you win and lose. It only matters how you play if your team is being gradedon performance-based outcome which Sparty is. Michigan is just under secular evaluation at this point. Nothing to see here.
For the record, Michigan and MSU have always handled winning and losing differently. And expecting each to act differently about that seems like a bridge too far. It is what it is.
October 27th, 2014 at 3:00 PM ^
he lives for the strife. He looks for the angle, anything to keep the chip on the shoulder. For Michigan to do the stake thingy - seriously, a tent stake? At least they should have used something manly, you know, bigger - just adds fuel to Dantonio's fire. If the coaches were aware of this, they should not have let it happen.
October 27th, 2014 at 1:57 PM ^
I feel like Hoke has brought a sense of entitlement since he became coach, with his This is Michigan quote and all the history stuff he talks about. It's as if he basically tells the kids to just show up and we'll win because we're Michigan. Just my opinion
October 27th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^
Absolutely. Probably wouldn't matter though if he were a good coach.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:11 PM ^
Ain't that the truth, or even if any of his position coaches were good enough to fill in for his incompetence.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:00 PM ^
Anyone who calls Dantonio petty just doesn't get it. He takes what Michigan gives him and turns it into fuel for his team. Its how you stay sharp when you're already on top.
As for the final drive, all Michigan had to do was stop Sparty. They didn't even have to defend the pass. They couldn't do it.
In fact: Anyone notice that MSU scored on their first drive, the drive before the half and the drive to end the game? All the crucial moments, total failure from the defense.
If you pretend to be tough with your little act of putting a stake in the ground on their field and then swagger around like you're something, you shouldn't be surprised when the other team knocks you down a peg or two and then doesn't stop.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:31 PM ^
but to be honest, after we planted the stake in their field, blowing us out and then running plays and scoring in the waning minutes passes the "what I hope my coach would do in a similar situation" test.
I would have absolutely loved it had we been able to that to OR in '06 after the sledgehammer in our endzone.
Hopefully not too much time will pass before we will be able to inflict such a moment on them.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:59 PM ^
Being petty is how you stay sharp when you're on top? Have you ever seen Jimbo Fisher, Nick Saban, Gus Malzahn, Mark Richt, Les Miles, Bob Stoops, or Brian Kelly act like that?
October 27th, 2014 at 3:09 PM ^
Except he's not being petty.
Michigan disrespected Michigan State. Dantonio turned that into fuel for his team. They came out and pounded Michigan and didn't stop till the game was over. Its that simple. If you're going to do something like slam a stake into another team's field, you should be able to back it up. Dantonio made his point: Michigan can't back it up. And he's right. Michigan is all talk.
Dantonio turns slights into better performances. Its what good coaches do. I have no idea whether or not those guys have done things like that, but I'm guessing they have used plenty of things for bulletin board material because that's what good coaches do.
And if you're Dantonio and you're not at a traditional powerhouse, you need to be looking for every edge you can find.
From your stance, I take it you don't want Jim Harbaugh here? Because he's a similar guy.
October 27th, 2014 at 4:44 PM ^
What does using bulletin board material with your own team in private before the game have to do with publicly referencing a 7-year-old slight and talking about shoving stakes up players asses at a press conference after you just won the game by three scores against a 3-4 team? Like I said, I absolutely never hear elite coaches, including Jim Harbaugh, stoop to the levels that Dantonio perpetually inhabits, and it's because most rational adults understand that it looks really childish and stupid.
October 27th, 2014 at 5:46 PM ^
Only a dip shit for a coach would keep his starting running back in the game when he already had 30+carries is just plain stupid. Give someone else a chance to run the ball in.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:02 PM ^
I think one of the most important things for the next coach is how he handles the State and OSU games starting the moment he steps on campus. In his first or second press confernence he is almost guaranteed to recieve a quesiton about the rivalries. Hoke and co have put Michigan in an embarassing spot with the way they have handled the rivalry games, from the product on the field to the PR gaffes. I think taking the Rich Rod approach and almost downplaying the signifigance of the games wouldn't be the correct move either. The next coach needs to come in, take firm control of this team, and make it a point to show respect to the rivalries, display an intense desire to win these games, and deliver on the field. Whether or not Michigan wins both or either game against Sparty and OSU is irrelevant in year 1, IMO. However, playing both closer and treating the games as something special instead of just another game will go a long way in relighting the fire in these rivalries, as well as keeping fans happy.
October 27th, 2014 at 8:30 PM ^
just care less about the initial press conference because that offers nothing in terms of how the coach will fare with the program. I mean almost everybody was on Hoke's nuts after his first press conference as the coach. That doesn't mean shit until we see the results on the field for the next few years.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:06 PM ^
Great article. This article paints a brush onto the douchebag that Dantonio is and the incompetent fool that Hoke is. Too many times Dantonio is left off the hook because he won the game and the media loves him yet make big deals out of the stake and little brother comment when no big deal was made about the moment of silence comment, running the score up as time expires, backing a player that twisted Denard's neck after the whistle etc. There's a reason why Michigan fans don't respect MSU and it has nothing to do with what happens on the field. Respect is earned. Respect Michigan and I'll respect your team Mr. Dantonio.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:11 PM ^
Dantonio is still whining about Mike Hart after dismantling a rival in a rivalry game. I hope the next head coach puts together a "highlight" clip of Sparty celebrations, in which first downs and tackles are treated like National Championsihps. The highlight clip should also have Dantonio bitching, year after year. Most of all, it should also have all of Sparty's dirty hits, especially those meant to intentionally injure players, since Dantonio got there.
It's time for Michigan to be the team that shows up angry.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:23 PM ^
It is pretty sad that after winning 6 of the last 7 games, Dantonio is still talking about Mike Hart's comments from 2007. Apparently, it's a wound that will never heal.
October 27th, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^
October 27th, 2014 at 2:39 PM ^
Yeah I think hypocritical is probably the best word to describe him. I mean here's a guy personally insulting individual players and subtely talking about shoving stakes up their asses, and he cries about disrespect. It's hilarious.
October 27th, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^
Mark Dantonio very obviously has a serious emotional disorder and he needs help. I don't think we should make fun of him.
\s fuck that troll
October 27th, 2014 at 2:52 PM ^
i don't know....what's he supposed to do? EVERY YEAR ABC/ESPN does a spotlight on the whole thing and it always starts and finishes w/ Mike's comments - they showed it again this year. Seemed to me he was saying after the game that he's sick of it too. The media has latched onto it and refuses to let it go. He talks about it because he gets asked about it every goddamned year.
Hey coach, do you think the little brother thing has been turned around now? Hey coach, do Mike Hart's comments still upset you? As much as he can be an expressionless dbag, all that stuff comes from the media and he's kind of forced to respond at some point. He sounded awfully tired of all the BS to me.
The fact remains is he's a good coach who has transformed MSU into one of the top 2 programs in the conference. They'll probably go to the CCG again this year - 3 out of 4 since it started. Meanwhile our coach can't complete a sentence, resorts to all kinds of bizarre motivational tricks, and flat out refuses to develop a single recruit into the player his potential suggested he might be. All intense rivalries have petty nonsense that goes on....what's sad is we have NOTHING to look forward to. There is not one single positive out of that game for Michigan. We're his bitch right now, and until we do something to change it, he's free to do and say whatever he wants. *shrug*
October 27th, 2014 at 3:04 PM ^
The media keeps asking him about it because they know they'll get a response worth printing. If Dantonio would just say "that's in the past, right now we're focusing on winning games and being a great football team," he'll stop getting those questions. But like Nick said, the man just can't help himself.
October 27th, 2014 at 3:57 PM ^
Was Dantonio saying he was sick of it before or after he alluded to shoving a stake up someone's ass?
October 27th, 2014 at 11:28 PM ^
This is what he WANTS to do! Dantonio cries like a 6th grade girl because, as numerous comments have highlighted, it works to motivate his team and gets him some media sound bites. He has never apologized for the blatant efforts to take our quarterbacks out of the game, it wasn't football it was unprovoked, after the play aggravated assault, which could have been a deadly injury.
Yet he wants to stir up sympathy for Hart's throwaway comment from years ago so he can continue to milk it. For a guy who runs a successful program he really is a pansy. No respect.
Having said that - we still have to own the product on the field. Then and only then, we can ignore Dantonio's whining instead of feeling compelled to respond to it....
October 27th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^
The Wolverines spent all week talking about how they were going to prepare like Saturday was just another game, and then contradicted that message the minute they ran out onto the field. They had two weeks to prepare, and appeared to do basically nothing with that time.
I think that this above a lot of things is what grates at me when I think about how we handled this past weekend. We had a couple threads that bristled at the quotes from various players about how the preparation was not going to be different, but like Nick said, that message was negated before the game even started. I really didn't understand how in a couple days it went from merely "game week" to the stake - it seemed poorly thought out, to say the least.
October 27th, 2014 at 3:13 PM ^
October 27th, 2014 at 9:17 PM ^