Grant Hill Responds to Fab Five Doc
Thought you all might be interested in reading this:
http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/03/16/grant-hills-response-to-jalen-rose/?ref=sports
But I respect Grant Hill's response. It is generous and thoughtful. He considers the fab five his friends. Friends can disagree, right?
i love this though. i hope this shit translates to the team come tourney time. it's time to be the leaders and the best.
maybe JB brings in Jalen for a pop talk should we make it to the second round?! Goddamn do I hate Duke
EDIT: and grant hill can pipe his load
Instead of coming off like a whiny bitch, he should have concentrated on the more important point in the article: that successful middle class blacks are somehow Uncle Toms. In fact, if he wanted to he could have tweaked the Fab Five by pointing out how they've bought in too. (Juwan Howard's daughter goes to a chi-chi prep school. Jalen Rose is an obvious success, as evidenced by his successful film production.) If he wanted to make a personal point he could have added that just like Jalen Rose is a more complicated person than the rough, trash-talking exterior he portrayed as a member of the Fab Five, that he is too. That would have been great too.
The whole movie and Jalen's discussion in particular are quality work. It started a discussion. Grant Hill's response is not.
I love how no matter how long the discussion goes on in MGoBoard, someone can always come by and find a new angle to pick apart whatever dumb article has been published on Michigan or past Michigan student-athletes or the like. +1.
Hill wrote a pretty legit piece. Rose complains too much for his own good.
March 16th, 2011 at 11:26 PM ^
I mean it doesn't have obvious grammatical errors but it doesn't exactly take a compelling argument against what Rose said when he was 18-19.
It is natural to feel additional dislike for people of whom you are a little jealous. Jalen says in the film that he was jealous of Grant's upbringing, that he wished his own father would even acknowledge him.
As a teen I was not above feeling occasional bitterness and resentment towards others whose advantages I coveted. Were I to hang out with those same people now, I would not harbor the same feelings since I have gained some perspective in the past decade or so. That doesn't change how I felt at the time; it wasn't nice and it wasn't right, but I felt it and it colored who I was and how I acted. I'm sure most of us can identify with what Jalen said in some way, shape, or form even if not for socioeconomic reasons.
I think everyone is missing a very important point. Jalen never said he feels that way now. He said that's how he felt then, when he was in his late teens and early twenties. Most of the reactionary comments on this have acted like Jalen said he still feels that way.
Writers are the most guilty of this. Shouldn't you be able to listen, read, and interpret things correctly if you are going to be allowed to write for "objective" major media outlets?
grant hill is a bitch he played for duke thats all that needs to be said
I just hope that JB clips our the last sentance of Hill's piece for when we play duke in Round 2. Then one day Morris and THJR can say the are proud they never lost to duke.
by showing such thin skin has basically just confirmed that he is a bitch as per Jimmy King. By calling Grant an Uncle Tom, Jalen was expressing how a lot of people feel in the inner city about affluent blacks. Now this point may be misguided but it does exist and Jalen was just keeping it real in the documentary. If Grant Hill thinks that inner city kids who have been abadoned by their father, live in parts of town that Grant would last two seconds in do not have chips on their shoulders then he is more out of touch than I thought. Casting aspersions from on high is easy, clawing your way up the hill ala Jalen is the more admirable journey.
March 16th, 2011 at 10:57 PM ^
I feel like the Clint Eastwood Character in Gran Torino in saying what I am about to say.
I agree with Grant Hill on this one, although his tone was too preachy. Rose in his documentary should have repudiated his prior "Uncle Tom" statement. I get the point that this is what he used to believe, but he doesn't say what he believes now. I have heard that in recent media appearances, he explains his opinion, but he should have done so in the documentary.
We couldn't keep our eyes off of the fab five because (1) they were awesomely talented and (2) there was a fish out of water sense about them - inner city kids who embraced hip hop culture in an elite university setting.
The hip/hop notion that one can act "too white" by studying hard and embracing middle class values is harmful to the vast majority of under privileged inner city kids. Jalen Rose should have clearly rejected it in the documentary. Jalen Rose came from that environment and is a success but very few are blessed with the athleticism to be able to follow him. Grant Hill is a better role model because his focus on educational values will help many more.
One final point: while I loved following the fab five at the time, a little part of me feels guilty because they in no way represented the better values of our University. Some one else made the point that they could have gone to any university and created the same sensation. By mere chance they chose ours, yet they had no real connection to what it stands for. Those who attack Grant Hill merely because he criticises our fab five seem to have adobted the SEC and OSU views that "we don't care if cheating occured, as long as it is not too obvious and we win." As Michigan fans, we are better than that. Our University stands for excellence. Our teams are disciplned, tough, hard nosed, and they play by the rules. Chris Webber by taking money didn't play by the rules, and the wins are tainted.
March 16th, 2011 at 11:09 PM ^
"Grant Hill is a better role model because his focus on educational values will help many more."
That is nonsense. Jalen has a charter school, he endows scholarships at Michigan. Why do you think that Jalen doesn't value eduation? This is precisely the stereotype -- that because the Fab Five were brash and urban they were a bunch of illiterates. It's not true.
March 17th, 2011 at 12:11 AM ^
worthy. My point is that I wish he would have softened the harmful "Uncle Tom" talk in his documentary. Again, he doesn't believe that now, but I would have liked that to be clearer in the film. It leaves open the possiblity for some to misinterpret him as still believing that way.
Again, why did he have to make clear exactly what his thoughts are today? Because the media was going to run with it?
The documentary was on the Fab Five, not racial attitudes of poor blacks or black teenagers. His comments were important as it related to a very important opponent to the Fab Five. Going back and clarifying beyond what he did (gained respect for Laettner, thought Duke was the better team) was not part of the story to tell. Stop moving the goalposts on what he should have done and just use your brain. All it takes is looking at the values that the Fab Five show today to know that they don't have the same beliefs on the subject of "Uncle Toms."
Jalen, Jimmy, Ray, and Juwan were all excellent students while at U of M.
Jalen was an honor roll student in high school, and on the dean's list at Michigan. He is, by all accounts, a very intelligent individual.
The media started the whole, "they're just a bunch of thugs" meme, and a number of fans/people bought into it. They ought to be ashamed.
March 16th, 2011 at 11:24 PM ^
Grant Hill is a bitch who's about as close to the culture Jalen Rose grew up in as I am.
March 16th, 2011 at 11:53 PM ^
"I'm white and comments about race make me uncomfortable!"
But doesn't that in turn stereotype white people? Is there no end to the racial divide?
This is an interesting topic because this is the type of work I focus on. I am an anthropologist with a focus in slavery studies or as it is more formally known "subaltern". I also do a lot of work in racialized discourses. In anthropology there is a perspective known as the "semiotic perspective". Through intersecting discourses historically between class and ethnic groups, as a culture we have created what anthropologists call "marked" and "unmarked" groups. The marked group is the stigmatized group, while the unmarked group is the group of privilege. A nonracial example of this is sexual preference. When people interact in our culture peoples default position is to assume that other is heterosexual. Heterosexuals in this instance are the unmarked group.
Also, to make my point I need to address some history. Historians agree that during slavery it's fair to distinguish between the mentality of "house slaves" and "field slaves". "House slaves", because of their closeness with the slave master and because they were treated less harshly, tended to identify with the slave master even to the extent of saving his or her life. Field slaves were less likely to identify with the slave master and therefore were less submissive. It should also be noted that house slaves, because of their closeness with the slave master, were usually better off. As a result, house slaves have had greater opportunity to equal access and less likely to be excluded from participating in social relations that were once exclusively white. House slave and "uncle tom" have come to mean essentially the same thing.
I think all this information lends itself to the conclusion that Rose was not out of line. Furthermore, calling someone an "uncle tom" is not out of line. People resisting exploitation have always called out those that lend support to those exploiting them. Malcolm X frequently referred to others as "uncle tom" as a means to call people out so that they will empower themselves, as well as Huey P. Newton, and other important caring revolutionaries. It is a criticism out of love.
By the way, to those who were complaining about poor people not doing anything to not be poor and insinuating that people blame slavery and that they need to get out of the past. Well here’s some news for you. There are millions of slaves (indisputable unwaged slavery) in the world today. It is illegal in every country, yet occurs in almost all, including the US.
March 17th, 2011 at 10:56 AM ^
I mean didn't Spike Lee already settle this issue for the Black community in School Daze?