Goodbye: Pharaoh Brown???
Rumor on 247Sports that UM and PB have parted ways due to his planned OV to Oregon. Anyone have anything solid on this? Ace?
Edit: Everyone, let's not jump all over this HS kid for possibly wanting to visit Oregon. First, we do not have all the facts. Second, it might just be that Hoke has told him we now consider him uncommitted, but are willing to keep the door slightly open just in case he later decides he wants to be a Wolverine and we still have room closer to NSD.
[ED:BISB - I concur with the edit. No "we don't want us no fake Wolverine" comments, please]
November 20th, 2011 at 10:36 PM ^
But if we don't want kids who would visit other schools, because we think they might decommit, why are we going after kids who would decommit from their current school visiting Michigan, because clearly they aren't the types who would honor their commitment.
(I don't believe this, it just seems kind of ridiculous)
November 20th, 2011 at 10:42 PM ^
Because Michigan coaches set a certain precedent about vists that other coaches do not. If those other coaches set the same precedent their commits would think twice about visiting Michigan.
It's not hypocritical. It's just a different philosophy about handing current commits.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:45 PM ^
Just seems like if you want someone who would honor a commitment and by having an already committed player on campus, you're getting someone who has to dishonor one by playing for you.
But maybe this is the way to keep players from finding out that the weather stays nice year round down south and near southern California.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:59 PM ^
Maybe it's less of an honor thing, and more of a numbers thing. With this philosophy the coaches don't have to worry as much about recruits decommtting at the last minute, and then having to scramble to fill the class with a quality kid.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:05 PM ^
But maybe this is the way to keep players from finding out that the weather stays nice year round down south and near southern California.
Geez, thanks to you everyone is now going to know that the weather is not the same throughout the country.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:20 PM ^
My big mouth...my bad, my bad!
But you know what I mean. If you're a kid whose never been to southern Cal or Florida and you show up, the sun is shining, the blondes are walking around and someone smiles and says "It's like this all the time"...it's a little different than seeing an agreeable temperature on the Weather Channel.
November 21st, 2011 at 1:13 AM ^
Exactly. It's like swinging!
November 20th, 2011 at 10:32 PM ^
it doesn't seem to me that you have.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:09 PM ^
Its not that the practice is immoral or something. Its simply that if, despite a verbal, a kid turns out to not really be committed to Michigan, then the coaching staff cant be expected to hold his spot and turn away other recruits.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:12 PM ^
Hoke isn't rebelling against kids taking trips after committing. He's just setting a policy in the best interests of his team. No hypocrisy at all.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:51 PM ^
Hoke is paid to do what's best for Michigan. This means he should make sure his recruits stay committed, and take a look in Columbus and South Bend and say "all ur recruits are belong to me".
If he's not going to do that, what are we paying him for? We might as well just set up a system where everyone gets an equal share of top talent so it would be fair for everyone.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:15 PM ^
this could go against chip kelly. he has the same rules that hoke does. but he allows committed players to visit oregon. you can control what you control.
November 20th, 2011 at 9:54 PM ^
I like this move by the coaching staff. This sends a message to all the other recruits in the class and also to recruits that are non-committed. It is a privilege to play football and attend the University of Michigan. Those Who Stay Will Be Champions. And those that are not All In For Michigan, will be left out.
November 20th, 2011 at 9:54 PM ^
Yeah, our coaches are really immature for sending a message that being committed to Michigan means that you are actually committed. If he wanted to take visits, he should have stated that he still had an open committment to the coaches. They want committment to actually mean something again and I couldn't agree with them more.
November 20th, 2011 at 9:54 PM ^
This was to DUDENESS
November 20th, 2011 at 9:55 PM ^
I like what this kid brings in terms of talent but clearly he violated a 'code' that the staff has in place for commits.
The lessons of T-Rich were not learned. I admire Hoke et al. for their stand as "this is Michigan". Perhaps there can be some reconciliation here but, if not, good luck to P. Brown and hello to the new player who fills that 5th spot.
November 20th, 2011 at 9:56 PM ^
I know Shallal Taylor and Widlak are reading this
November 20th, 2011 at 10:11 PM ^
I hope we play Oregon at some point in Pharoah Brown's career and show him what he's missing out on.
November 21st, 2011 at 1:15 AM ^
Preferably in Pasadena or the MNC game (or both)
November 20th, 2011 at 10:13 PM ^
That's kind of silly. If Hoke and Co. want to go around and say, "We're Michigan," then he should at least have the confidence to not get offended/scared when a kid takes a visit to another school. I mean, these kids have FREE OPPORTUNITIES to travel to another college campus in another part of the country to watch a football game. If you had a chance to do that, you'd take advantage of it too.
IF this is a way to drop a recruit that we don't really need anymore by using his visiting another school as a sign of unloyalty, then I guess it's cool. It's much better than oversigning and doing it the SEC way.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:16 PM ^
You're right.
I'd take advantage of it *before* I COMMITTED.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:22 PM ^
Jensen's right. If you want the free trips, then don't commit. You can either have the benefit of your spot saved at a top school, or you can have the benefit of free campus trips, but not both.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:22 PM ^
But kids who visit often - hell, usually - fall in love with the schools they visit. It would be foolish to let a kid hold a spot in your class while he shops around and then see him leave when it's too late to find a quality replacement.
<br>If I were Hoke, I'd have the exact same policy.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:10 PM ^
How do we know you're not Hoke? Your avatar is only a face, so I can't tell if you only wear short sleeves. BTW, if Hoke is warm outside for 3+ hours in 50 deg weather wearing only short sleeves, how does he survive summer?
November 21st, 2011 at 12:33 AM ^
"BTW, if Hoke is warm outside for 3+ hours in 50 deg weather wearing only short sleeves, how does he survive summer?"
I was wondering about that on Saturday. Does Hoke feel like he's in a furnace when it's 85 out? If so, how did he coach in San Diego. He's probably just too tough to feel cold.
November 21st, 2011 at 9:12 AM ^
He gets cold, hes just mentally tough and ignores it. I love it. I coach baseball in NW Ohio and wear shorts at every practice, and early in the season its still in the 30's...Im cold as can be, but I just ignore it and for some reason the players think Im some badass. Little do they know, I still sleep with a nightlight. Whatever motivates. Hoke does, therefore, no sleeves!
November 21st, 2011 at 9:56 AM ^
I love it too. But, at some point doesn't being miserably cold create a distraction for you that is greater than the benefit you send about toughness?
November 20th, 2011 at 10:14 PM ^
What's done is done. Brown made his choice by going, Hoke just simply reacted as he promised he would. Wish Brown the best...hope (and expect) that we put the scholarship to good use.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:15 PM ^
It looks like this will be known as the "Pharoah Brown Rule" in the future for future recruits. I knew Terry Richardson was flirting with the idea of visiting other schools earlier in the summer, but then talked to the coaches and that faded. But whatever happens with Pharoah, hopefully he lands somewhere good and has a successful career.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:53 PM ^
he would have really skrewed the pooch if he doesn't commit to Oregon. I mean, you cost yourself a spot at a top program near your home for a school you aren't going to go to....
November 20th, 2011 at 10:16 PM ^
I hope he can make it back into the class. Would really love to have that size and athleticism in the passing game.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:19 PM ^
There came into Egypt a Pharaoh who did not know...
November 20th, 2011 at 10:22 PM ^
Hokes' people say we must let you go......
November 20th, 2011 at 10:24 PM ^
Pharoah was a pretty cool name...
November 20th, 2011 at 11:14 PM ^
Confusing though, I'm sure we would have had to endure Spielman butchering it for 4 years,
November 20th, 2011 at 10:27 PM ^
THOSE WHO STAY (COMMITTED) WILL BE CHAMPIONS.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:31 PM ^
A recruit like TRich or Pharoah tells Hoke, "Coach I want to visit another school."
Hoke: "Ok. We understand that you want to be sure of your decision. But for the best interest of Michigan, we just want to let you know that while you are exploring other schools, if someone else is willing to commit at your spot, we cannot in our right minds wait around. It would be putting us at a disadvantage. We appreciate your honesty and know this is a big decision. We will continue to recruit you, but want you to know we cannot consider you 'committed' as long as you are going to other schools."
For Dudeness and others trying to say that it is petty for the coaches, remember what happened to Dequinta Jones... What good does it do for Michigan to save a spot for someone who is taking visits. We always say for recruits visiting Michigan, "You never know once they get on campus." Well the same goes here. And we will be screwed over if we continue to save spots for "commits" visiting other schools versus recruits who would be dying for a Michigan spot.
Get your childhood dreams of visiting schools in BEFORE you commit somewhere. Why would you want a kid to come play for you if he really did go behind your back? We don't know that this is what actually happened, but how could you trust a kid if he won't be up front with you.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:32 PM ^
And then if they choose to take the visits and drag out the process, like Jordan Diamond, they may see their spot in the class disappear.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:38 PM ^
You're not really damned if you do considering if you go to a place like Michigan you will get the opportunity over the next four years to travel for free to many of those other campuses you could have as a recruit, as a Michigan player.
So yes, they are young and I understand that. But Hoke does have a job to do and as we have gotten screwed over in the past (RE: DT) I appreciate the fact that Hoke is already trying to instill accountability in commitments before they get to campus (RE: TRich).
If you want to be at Michigan (which I would think you do if you would commit) then come to Michigan, go to the Rose Bowl, and get free travel and gifts when you go to Pasadena.
Also, if it is true that a commit knew the policy and went behind the coach's backs, that is a whole other issue that makes you consider whether the player really was committed to begin with.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:39 PM ^
I think that's a fair way to look at it.
Hopefully this can be used as the standard in the future.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:14 PM ^
You are right that we never know. The fact is you have no idea who is going behind who's back or who said what to whom. As a coach, you want the kids you are most sure wil succeed with you. As a player you want the program you are the most sure you will succeed in. There is amazing internal and external pressure to commit. New information comes out constantly! Constantly. As this new info hits kids and coaches, it often changes their needs and priorities. This happens all the way through signing day. Just have to hope each kid makes the best choice with the info he has.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:32 PM ^
i don't understand this these kids are just taking a free trip to go see a game stuff. yeah thats part of it but it's not the only thing. it's not like they show up on campus take a stroll around go to the game and leave. they are there being recruited and sold on the program. the coaches and the hosts are doing eevrything in their power to get these kids to commit or de-commit if they have somewhere else. it isn't just going to see a game and saying it is is being willfully ignorant of what goes on at recruiting trips.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:05 PM ^
And hosted recruits, I can tell you personally there is a lot pressure on these kids. The coaches have about as much incentive to tell the truth to the recruit as they do to give the media the whole story in a press conference. With all the coachspeak it can be very confusing to kids and their families to sort out the right thing to do. Hoke can always go get another tight end, but Brown only gets one college career. I say, we will never know the complete story and each kid must do all they can to make the best choice for them. Give them the benefit of the doubt. At 18 years old how many college coaches could have swayed each of you? You think you know? You have no idea until you have been there.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:55 PM ^
I disagree. There are some distinctive things about some programs and few offer the combination of Michigan's tradition, academics, stadium, facilities, etc. I don't hold it against any kid who has a different set of priorities but I sure as hell don't hold it against Hoke for looking for the kids who place a high value on what Michigan offers.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:45 PM ^
On a completely related note...what's up with all the sneak peaks at Oregon?
November 20th, 2011 at 10:52 PM ^
Brown was switched to TE, but my understanding was that UM (especially Mattison) was primarily recruiting him as a DE with the possibility of playing TE.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:00 PM ^
On a side note, could it be considered some type of violation to have several famous sport stars on the sidelines who are in no way affiliated with your university or the sport being played other than the shoe contract they're under? I saw D.Wade, Lebron, Bosh, Melo, Chris Paul, Boozer all at the game last night on Oregon's sideline. Yeah, they were just there by coincidence.....probably not interacting with recruits at all.....improper benny's maybe?
November 21st, 2011 at 12:00 AM ^
Honest question: Were all those guys really on the Oregon sideline?
November 21st, 2011 at 12:38 AM ^
Wow. People were pretty suspicious when USC had Will Ferrell and Snoop Dog on the sidelines when Leinhart and Bush were there, but this is a whole different level. I realize these are all Nike athletes but you can't tell me that this isn't helping bring recruits to Oregon. The NCAA should get on this IMO.