Goodbye: Pharaoh Brown???
Rumor on 247Sports that UM and PB have parted ways due to his planned OV to Oregon. Anyone have anything solid on this? Ace?
Edit: Everyone, let's not jump all over this HS kid for possibly wanting to visit Oregon. First, we do not have all the facts. Second, it might just be that Hoke has told him we now consider him uncommitted, but are willing to keep the door slightly open just in case he later decides he wants to be a Wolverine and we still have room closer to NSD.
[ED:BISB - I concur with the edit. No "we don't want us no fake Wolverine" comments, please]
November 21st, 2011 at 8:11 AM ^
He also told a major college football program he'd go there. If you commit to hold a spot and keep looking around it's the beginning move of a bait and switch. Hoke & Co. aren't butthurt, they're making a fair decision that doesn't allow players to commit just to make sure they have a spot.
November 20th, 2011 at 9:56 PM ^
That's the thing, it's not just a free trip to the game. If Brown's uncle had tickets and took him to go sit int he stands, that would be one thing.
It was a recruiting visit, and our recruits know the rules. Brown knew the rules, and tried to keep it a secret from the coaches. Now he doesn't have a spot. Making rules and then enforcing them is very mature.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:00 PM ^
If Brown didn't honor his commitment, then neither should the coaches. Committing to a school should be about more than just saving your spot. If you aren't completely certain you want to go to a school, don't commit there. It isn't rocket science.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:01 PM ^
From what I've read, the coaches aren't opposed to recruits taking visits, but it's the secretive part of this that the coaches didn't like. That aside, the coaches are basing their recruiting off of the commitments that they have received. They need to be sure that those kids are actually committed or they could be turning someone away who wants to go to Michigan, only to find out that the commit doesn't actually sign with Michigan. That's not fair to the coaches or the other recruits.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:09 PM ^
how you felt when RR pulled Dewayne Peace's offer for not switching to cornerback
November 20th, 2011 at 10:16 PM ^
I can't agree more and it amazes me that people neg this.
What is the average age of this board's users?
Do you have any recollection of what it was like to be in high school/going into college?
So you have the opportunity to take free trips to watch great college football games, visit and take in some of the nation's coolest college campuses on someone else's dime and you're going to say no?
It's a 17 year old acting his age.
If you really have a problem with this, then you should be upset that the coaches allow recruits who have already committed to other schools into the Big House, seeing as we obviously weren't their first choice and they might just be using us.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:18 PM ^
You're not giving 17 year olds enough credit. They're involved in a process, and that process has rules. Rules that all the other commits can handle. Brown knew these rules, and broke them. This either means he didn't care about the consequences (he was OK with losing his spot in our class) or he has a problem following rules
Since I'm also sure Brown's parents knew these rules, I'd guess this means he just like Oregon better than Michigan. This should not reflect poorly on Hoke, he's just doing his job.
What would you rather Hoke do? Let these kids visit anywhere and then scramble when guys de-commit?
November 20th, 2011 at 10:26 PM ^
Is Michigan that forgettable of a place that one visit to another school means kids will instantly de-commit?
November 20th, 2011 at 11:08 PM ^
When I was a senior I knew what a commitment was and how important it was to keep my word. That is all Hoke is asking them to do. He's saying if they visit elsewhere they aren't really committed. Makes logical sense to me. The analogy the other night was telling your fiancée you want to fool around with some other women before the wedding day just to be "wined and dined". See how many women would be ok with that
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<br>This is actually 100% consistent with Kalis and allowing other "commits" into AA. Basically, if they are willing to look around, they aren't really committed
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<br>Hole is in the right here and frankly I was getting tired of all the decommit/verbal/soft verbal bullshit. You are either undecided, in, or out. But when you decide you are in, be a man and stick to your word.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:24 PM ^
But what sport and what school?
November 20th, 2011 at 11:41 PM ^
I just asked megangoblue, and this is her coach's policy as well. She plays mid-major softball for a coach that isn't very strict about a lot of things.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:22 PM ^
If that's what he was doing then why not just let the coaches know and clear it with them? That's clearly the bigger issue. The Michigan coaches are holding their recruits to a higher standard of honesty and integrity than the average 17 year old and you should be proud of that.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:29 PM ^
but maybe it had something to do with the coaches hard line stance on no visits to other schools.
Or maybe he thought they weren't that serious and now found out they were.
If them's the rules, so be it, but I think that it does reflect poorly on our staff. They should have the confidence that a visit to another place isn't going to result in a decommit.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:12 PM ^
It has been stated that the coaches inform the players before they commit of the rules they have on this subject. They're not "Butt Hurt" it's the fact that they don't feel comfortable with his commitment anymore so they need to move on and find someone that they can trust will commit in February.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:15 PM ^
that they would accept the Kalis commitment seeing as how he can obviously switch schools at the drop of a hat.
(I don't think this at all. I just think its ridiculous that the coaches would take such a hardline stance on high school kids making one of the most important decisions of their lives).
November 20th, 2011 at 10:18 PM ^
i can understand, but how would you feel if you save a position for him and now have to re-recruit players you said no to because you have a committment. i understand that they are kids and change their minds, but coach said up front what his rules are.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:22 PM ^
but I think taking such a hard line on recruits might have some negative implications in the future.
I mean, I'm just thinking back to being 17 and having the opportunity to be at Autzen to see USC vs. Oregon...and to not be able to take that trip just because the coaches don't want me to, while they have other team's commits at a Michigan home game seems somewhat hypocritical.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:31 PM ^
i am kind of split on this. i could understand 17year olds wanting to visit and enjoy the recruiting process. but coach hoke is committed to the player and not shopping his schollie for a better player. big committment. this may effect us in the future, but you get kids who really want to come here.
November 21st, 2011 at 12:14 AM ^
We have plenty of targets that we're still pursuing that are going to take visits and live up the recruiting process, but they're uncommitted. If you want to do that, fine, but don't commit.
November 21st, 2011 at 8:14 AM ^
true. if you are from a poor family and have to pay for the unofficial, but really like the school. as i said i tried to think of any possible reason for him in the other thread.
i dont think he thought this would happen, i didnt think he loves oregon but hey, just my guess anyway.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:40 PM ^
Well, then you'd have a choice: call the coach who's recruiting you, tell him you really want to see the game, it doesn't mean you're interested in Oregon, and negotiate/deal with the consequences. or go without telling anyone and deal with the consequences. or tell oregon you really appreciate the opportunity but no thanks because your commitment to michigan is too important.
Any 17-year-old with a social life has probably faced a situation like this at some point.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:48 PM ^
but would this be the first time a 17 year old went behind the back of an authority figure to have some fun?
Coaches talk about molding their players into "fine young men" because they are still boys when they get to campus.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:50 PM ^
Then take all your official visits and THEN choose which school you want to commit to. That is how it should be done.
November 21st, 2011 at 10:40 AM ^
I wouldn't want to go to Autzen for any reason whatsoever, especially to see a fly by night program like Oregon. I agree wholeheartedly with the coaches and if that is the rule that they set up, then so be it. Plus these kids will get to see a lot of different campuses when we travel there to beat the crap out of them. Next year we play at Cowboy's stadium, ND stadium, Nebraska and Ohio, they can visit some great places playing here. If he wants to play in Twin Peaks Oregon, where he will get much less exposure and play in the crappy pac 10, so be it. Don't commit if you are not serious.
November 21st, 2011 at 12:26 AM ^
Well then he shouldn't have committed. It's like asking a woman to marry you and before the wedding saying, "wait, I want to go on a date with a couple other ladies first." Either be committed or don't. Recruiting isn't just some little thing. I also think it may have had more to do with sneaking around than the actual visit.
November 21st, 2011 at 12:47 AM ^
I'm fine by that.
I think that analogy is a little ridiculous: You're talking about two adults planning to spend the rest of their lives together as opposed to a 17-18 year old making a decision on which school they want to attend for 3-5 years.
November 21st, 2011 at 12:18 AM ^
"I hope I can still be a fan of Michigan."
Sorry. Hoke just informed me you're no longer a Michigan fan. Please give all your UM gear to Purple Heart.
November 21st, 2011 at 8:57 AM ^
The policy is no visits if you commit. He took a visit so his spot is no longer saved. He also didn't tell the coaches about it and they decided to no longer recruit him because he wasn't up front with them. Curious as to how this translates to butt hurt.
November 20th, 2011 at 9:52 PM ^
Brown isn't talking at this point, but yeah, everything points to this being the case. I don't have any info that you guys don't have, but we're all well aware of this staff's policy, and obviously Brown decided to trip to Eugene anyway. So it goes...
That said, Michigan is still in decent shape at TE with Funchess and Williams coming in, and they could still go after a guy like McNamara or snag another high-profile player at a position of need. I was excited to see Brown as a 6'6" tight end, but this isn't a class-killer, obviously, and there's still a long way to go until signing day.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:04 PM ^
Also, this should go without saying, but let's keep the bad-mouthing of any recruits out of this. Brown made his choice, and he had his reasons, and we should respect that. The coaching staff apparently made theirs, and I respect the way they approach recruiting. There's no need to make a bad guy out of this on either side—sometimes things just don't work out, and you move on. Brown is trying to figure out where he should go to school—no easy choice—and Michigan is trying to put together a recruiting class that is fully committed to Michigan. No need for anger, especially with the Wolverines in on so many blue-chip recruits who are still uncommitted.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:11 PM ^
70 comments in and I don't think I've read a single post bad-mouthing Brown
November 20th, 2011 at 10:16 PM ^
True, and that shows why the commenters at MGoBlog are the best. I just wanted to at least say my piece in case anyone decided to come on here and say some BS about a high school kid. Just trying to make sure my Sunday night doesn't head towards message board damage control mode. Glad to see that shouldn't be the case.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:04 PM ^
Williams is not a TE for the record. He is coming in as an OT.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:08 PM ^
Scout reclassified him as an OT, but Williams is still coming to Ann Arbor with the intent of being a tight end, and for his freshman season I expect he'll play there. Michigan is in desperate need of bodies there, and Williams can function as a sixth offensive lineman who can also go out and at least be a threat to catch the occasional pass. At his size, he seems destined for the offensive line at some point in his career, but there's such a huge need at TE next year I think he'll find some early PT there, even if he comes in at 275 pounds. In fact, I'd actually like to see a 275-pound tight end on the field if Michigan moves to a power running game.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:16 PM ^
I've heard that AJ is 285+ and that is a little big for a tight end. It's also been said that if Williams was classified solely as an OT then he would be a consensus top 5 player in Ohio this year. He's said he'll do what's best for the team and if he's that elite of an OT then he should probably play there. The coaches will decide but with everything I've heard about his performance this year it stands to reason that he'll be put on the line.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:23 PM ^
I agree with all of that, but Michigan should be set along the O-line (especially at tackle, at least in terms of incoming depth) next year, and they need someone to put out there at tight end. Brandon Moore has shown nothing in his career. We know nothing about how Ricardo Miller will take to the position. Kevin Koger and Steve Watson will be gone. Somebody has to play tight end, and it might as well be a guy who can block incredibly well for the position and still has the potential to go out and catch a pass. Like I said, I still expect Williams to end up on the line, but next year he can come in and contribute immediately at tight end. I think he'll do just that, even if he's not catching many passes.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:45 PM ^
Seems like a great player, but I figured our shot was gone when he committed to Arizona last month.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:52 PM ^
He's still taking visits, and at this point I'd say it's safe to consider him a "soft commit" at best for Arizona. I think Michigan could get right back into the thick of things if they made a strong pitch for him. There's also the chance that the coaching staff feels set with two TEs in this class, or at least that they'd rather fill the remaining spots in the class with other positions.
November 20th, 2011 at 9:53 PM ^
I just think kids these days, with all the glamour and press that surrounds the recruiting process, forget what 'COMMITTED' means....
Committed doesnt mean, I like having a press conference to put a hat on just so I can fly around the country to see if I want to 'commit' to someone else....
I am sad to see that Pharaoh Brown is no longer in the class, but I am extremely happy that the coaches value what a 'COMMITMENT' means....
November 20th, 2011 at 10:18 PM ^
can't wait to see you booing Kalis, the former Buckeye commit.
Better tell Dunn we don't want him either.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:21 PM ^
OSU is caught up in various scandals.
We are not.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:58 PM ^
To what school a recruit commits is between the recruit and that school. It's possible for coaches to have gentlemen's agreements about not going after one another's committed recruits, but it's usually the case that they don't. OSU's staff is free to tell their commits they can't take other visits on pain of losing their spot, but that's not Hoke's business. Hoke's business is recruiting whoever will help Michigan the most, and he's doing a damn good job.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:05 PM ^
Not everybody has the same policy that Hoke has about visits. The staff knows this, and soon recruits will know this too. There's nothing wrong with trying to recruit kids that are willing to listen. He is just holding Michigan commits to a higher standard, as he should.
November 20th, 2011 at 11:17 PM ^
If this is the rule, then that is fine and Brown is being made an example of. The staff laid it out for him and he went ahead and broke it anyway.
I think the rule itself is dumb. If I'm to believe that Michigan is such a special place, I have to think we wouldn't need a rule that cuts ties with someone just cause they take in a place like Oregon. I feel like it could have a negative impact in the future and might turn some kids off.
I also think a lot of the holier than thou attitude on this board over a 17-year old kid wanting to visit other schools is excruciating to read. Almost all of us were not in this position as 17-year olds. To sit there and say "We only want players who will honor their commitment to Michigan" when you have no idea what its like to be in their position seems shortsighted.
And, I think that if the staff wants players who are committed to honoring their commitments, it comes off as hypocritical to have recruits who are committed to other schools visiting our campus. But I can see the argument against my reasoning. Its an agree to disagree situation.
November 20th, 2011 at 9:54 PM ^
But, at the cost of being neg bombed here, this is kind of hypocritcal of the Michigan staff. So it's ok for kids committed to other schools to visit here, but kids committed here can't visit anywhere else? Not quite fair. That being said, GBOD!
November 20th, 2011 at 10:03 PM ^
visit, then any of the other schools are free to act as they see fit. Hopefully, this staff will continue to enforce their rules.
November 21st, 2011 at 12:25 AM ^
Agreed. Also, Michigan doesn't completely cut ties with a recruit that commits and then decides to take more visits. He just loses his place in line and is no longer considered a commit. Brown would have been OK if he would have alerted the staff, as long as they still wanted him as a player.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:05 PM ^
if they were committed to UM and they were looking around, Hoke would pull the offer. But they're committed somewhere else, and Hoke doesn't have any control over over schools' recruiting strategy. Control what you can control: how is this hypocritical?
November 20th, 2011 at 10:15 PM ^
Simple because he can't control anothr situation at another school, doesn't make it not hypocritical.
November 20th, 2011 at 10:24 PM ^
The policy is, "If you're visiting different schools, you're not commited to a school." The policy is not "Kids who commit to one school and then look at another are not worth having on our team." If someone wants to visit here, then they are not commited and Hoke feels free to recruit them. This is not hypocrisy.