Per Chris Balas of Rivals.
fair point that
So far the other departures under Hoke have either been at deep positions or by kids who weren't going to play. Stokes could have been in the 2 deep next year.
Yeah, when hes a senior. He should have redshirted his freshman year, he was always going to be behind a loaded group of wr's.
and supported him al the way (and continue to wish him well now), but my only three problems with the guy were: He couldn't attract a decent DC, he wouldn't let the DC do his own thing, and he made some very odd decisions when it came to redshirting (or not redshirting in this case) players.
I look at guys like Stokes, Gardner, Campbell, M Robinson (and the list goes on) and wonder how the hell they weren't redshirted in their freshman year. That and the D are my only real problems with RR.
hopefully gardner still gets his redshirt
and I think he should, but at the end of the day there was no good reason for him to even have been playing at all. If he doesn't get the redshirt my ANGAR will be intensified 10 fold!
I think he played because Tate was being disciplined and that left no one else. That seems like a pretty good reason.
Burning someone's redshirt so they can be a sub in one game is not a good reason. Denard came back in the very next play.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but we missed Nick Sheridan last year. If he'd stayed for his 5th year, he could have filled in then and Gardner redshirted.
I hate to say it, but I think Gardner's redshirt is gone. It just doesn't make sense that he'd have to wait until after his senior year to find out. I've never heard of that happening to a player. I think the staff may be tip-toeing around the issue out of respect for the former staff.
How about Special Teams? Fake Punts? Turnover Margin? Fourth Down Conversions?
In RR's defense (can "RR" and "defense" be used in the same sentence?) I really think that he had to put some bodies on the field. Obviously not Gardner, but the others may have been needed at the time. Remember, he didn't have a lot of depth on the roster....particularly at WR and DB. Most players would be better off with a RS season but RR didn't really have that luxury. I think that Hoke may be in a better position as he moves forward.
a discussion on a guy who hasn't coached the wolverines for over 8 months. If you can't get over those things that's your problem, but I won't be draggeed into another pointless debate, thanks just the same.
Sorry, I replied without reading anything past your first sentence and then thought I should at least read it and saw that you were quite rational in the second paragraph. I agree he had some tough choices (and notice I didn't mention guys like Avery in my post) given the depth, but there are some very questionable choices he made in this regard (those I mentioned and a few others). This is just my opinion though.
...he really was impacted by the demand for immediate success and zero tolerance for changing to a new system that required very different players. There really is no way that he was immune to all those pressures and circumstances. That said, I think he would still be the head coach if he had let Scott Shafer run the defense.
Now I always try to squash speculation in my mind, but I'm human and can't help but wonder the reason Jeff Casteel did NOT follow Rich Rodriguez was because of their working relationship. And thus the history is written, and we move on to a new chapter.
You're the first in the 4 threads that were created on this topic...haha
Sad to see Je'Ron leave. Wasn't he suppose to be getting some serious playing time this fall, especially given no Stonum? This sucks!
And all hell has already broken loose...
Just messing around. The ever elusive back to back to back to back threadtastrophy had to be shared.
Thus goes another RR era consensus 4 star recruit. It seems like every highly thought of recruit besides Denard hasn't panned out or had luck kick them in the balls.
But, other than that, you're right. This year, we're mostly going to be surviving off of '07 and '08 recruits, and most of those classes didn't pan out either.
You forgot Craig Roh. And Cam Gordon. And Mike Shaw. And Fitzgerald Toussaint. And Ricky Barnum. And Patrick Omameh (blue-chip player if not a blue-chip recruit). And Roy Roundtree.
Plus guys like BWC, Washington, Odoms, Smith, and Schofield who will certainly play a big role this year and/or going forward.
Not bad for less than 1.5 recruiting classes (especially when you throw in the returning All American at QB and the future All American at left tackle). Not to mention that we've only seen these guys play as freshmen and sophomores (aside from Shaw last year).
Factor in the other guys in that 2008 class (who all signed their LOI to play for Rich Rodriguez) like Demens, Martin, Stonum, and Koger, and you have the makings of what will be a very fucking awesome team this year and next.
Please, let it go.
So it is fine for posters to bring up RR when trashing him for everything short of the black plague, but when someone offers and rebuttle based on the real facts of his tenure they have to drop it. I think are getting a little f*#king backwards at this point.
I try to stay well out of any of these conversations, but in almost every instance the debate starts with some douchebag trashing on a guy who hasn't been UM's coach for more than 8 months. Perhaps it is them that should let it go.
Gardner sounds like the real deal, but yea, your point definitely stands.
From what I have heard (friend of a friend type situation), Gardner is THE future of the program. I first heard that when RR was still here, but the guy who told me that still maintains it as truth.
I heard exact same. Maybe we have the same source...
If you live in Ann Arbor I'd say there is a 1 in 100,000 chance.
I don't and it was kind of a joke.
i really hope this is true... especially if THE future means 2013 after denard has spent 2 years obliterating the skeptics (and opposing defenses, of course).
Empty cabinets are empty? Good thing Hoke has a Costco card and is restocking in bulk with this next class.
Note, I do believe we have a talented team right now and should win some games.
I didn't agree that the cupboard was really BARE when Lloyd left but there certainly wasn't a great deal in it. Hoke is in a much better situation with what he has though and to dismiss that is ignoring reality. One of the biggest bonuses is that we have a real QB (no offense NS). It is far easier to take a dual threat QB and turn him into a pocket passer than to take a guy who can't run and turn him into a dual threat QB running the read option. Also, it is hard to take a qb who can't run or pass and do anything with them. That was the situation during the last transisition, and I thinkk we can all agree we are in a better place this time.
over all of the others combined.
By Chengelis over twitter
It seems a bit strange to me that two players would leave the team so late in the summer, so soon before the season starts. Any reason to be nervous/confused?
It happened last year. I think they just see that they are falling behind younger guys and want a chance to play somewhere. It makes sense to get out before the season starts so that this season counts as the one they have to sit out and they can play next year.
It's common in fact, as the summer camp rolls they find themselves out of a spot in the depht chart, last summer we lost LaLota and Turner around this time of the year and Emilien after the Connecticut game
We also lost Austin White which is most similar to the loss of Posada.
Whatever the reason, losing one of our taller receivers definitely hurts the depth chart right now. This may cement us signing 2 WR's in the 2012 class vs. 1.
Jeron was only about 6 foot, so not too tall. Though for our team full of slot receivers I understand what you are saying.
I think that taking 2 WR's was going to be a given anyway. From a future depth standpoint, losing Stokes, who would be a senior next year is nowhere near as bad as losing say Jerald Robinson who will be a senior in 2014.
Didn't sound like he'd be a contributor this year but it'll hurt us next season. Not counting 2012 recruits, there's only 4 schollie WR's 6'0 or taller for next year.
Its one thing to think that (which many of us probably do) and another thing to actually voice/post it. That's hardcore and not really a cool thing to post Be the better person - wish him well and move on. I bet you did the same to TomVH, right?
This makes no sense on the surface of things, but what do I know?
I never understood why he didn't redshirt... ohh well, Best of luck to him, we should have been expecting attrition :(
Given the timing, the coaches must've not been impressed. Have fun at Pitt.
We need some receivers over 6'0 post haste.
My other alma mater is going to be exciting as hell to watch this season!
You mean next season, they all have to sit out a year. Im sure youll love Ray Vinopal back there
Right - next season. And I'm not worried about Vinopal. Pitt always gets good defensive backs. A guy by the name of Darrelle Revis seems to ring a bell . . .