Per Chris Balas of Rivals.
to play football, not to play trumpet
So far the other departures under Hoke have either been at deep positions or by kids who weren't going to play. Stokes could have been in the 2 deep next year.
Yeah, when hes a senior. He should have redshirted his freshman year, he was always going to be behind a loaded group of wr's.
and supported him al the way (and continue to wish him well now), but my only three problems with the guy were: He couldn't attract a decent DC, he wouldn't let the DC do his own thing, and he made some very odd decisions when it came to redshirting (or not redshirting in this case) players.
I look at guys like Stokes, Gardner, Campbell, M Robinson (and the list goes on) and wonder how the hell they weren't redshirted in their freshman year. That and the D are my only real problems with RR.
hopefully gardner still gets his redshirt
and I think he should, but at the end of the day there was no good reason for him to even have been playing at all. If he doesn't get the redshirt my ANGAR will be intensified 10 fold!
I think he played because Tate was being disciplined and that left no one else. That seems like a pretty good reason.
Burning someone's redshirt so they can be a sub in one game is not a good reason. Denard came back in the very next play.
I can't believe I'm saying this, but we missed Nick Sheridan last year. If he'd stayed for his 5th year, he could have filled in then and Gardner redshirted.
I hate to say it, but I think Gardner's redshirt is gone. It just doesn't make sense that he'd have to wait until after his senior year to find out. I've never heard of that happening to a player. I think the staff may be tip-toeing around the issue out of respect for the former staff.
How about Special Teams? Fake Punts? Turnover Margin? Fourth Down Conversions?
In RR's defense (can "RR" and "defense" be used in the same sentence?) I really think that he had to put some bodies on the field. Obviously not Gardner, but the others may have been needed at the time. Remember, he didn't have a lot of depth on the roster....particularly at WR and DB. Most players would be better off with a RS season but RR didn't really have that luxury. I think that Hoke may be in a better position as he moves forward.
a discussion on a guy who hasn't coached the wolverines for over 8 months. If you can't get over those things that's your problem, but I won't be draggeed into another pointless debate, thanks just the same.
Sorry, I replied without reading anything past your first sentence and then thought I should at least read it and saw that you were quite rational in the second paragraph. I agree he had some tough choices (and notice I didn't mention guys like Avery in my post) given the depth, but there are some very questionable choices he made in this regard (those I mentioned and a few others). This is just my opinion though.
...he really was impacted by the demand for immediate success and zero tolerance for changing to a new system that required very different players. There really is no way that he was immune to all those pressures and circumstances. That said, I think he would still be the head coach if he had let Scott Shafer run the defense.
Now I always try to squash speculation in my mind, but I'm human and can't help but wonder the reason Jeff Casteel did NOT follow Rich Rodriguez was because of their working relationship. And thus the history is written, and we move on to a new chapter.
You're the first in the 4 threads that were created on this topic...haha
Sad to see Je'Ron leave. Wasn't he suppose to be getting some serious playing time this fall, especially given no Stonum? This sucks!
And all hell has already broken loose...
Just messing around. The ever elusive back to back to back to back threadtastrophy had to be shared.
Thus goes another RR era consensus 4 star recruit. It seems like every highly thought of recruit besides Denard hasn't panned out or had luck kick them in the balls.
But, other than that, you're right. This year, we're mostly going to be surviving off of '07 and '08 recruits, and most of those classes didn't pan out either.
You forgot Craig Roh. And Cam Gordon. And Mike Shaw. And Fitzgerald Toussaint. And Ricky Barnum. And Patrick Omameh (blue-chip player if not a blue-chip recruit). And Roy Roundtree.
Plus guys like BWC, Washington, Odoms, Smith, and Schofield who will certainly play a big role this year and/or going forward.
Not bad for less than 1.5 recruiting classes (especially when you throw in the returning All American at QB and the future All American at left tackle). Not to mention that we've only seen these guys play as freshmen and sophomores (aside from Shaw last year).
Factor in the other guys in that 2008 class (who all signed their LOI to play for Rich Rodriguez) like Demens, Martin, Stonum, and Koger, and you have the makings of what will be a very fucking awesome team this year and next.
Please, let it go.
So it is fine for posters to bring up RR when trashing him for everything short of the black plague, but when someone offers and rebuttle based on the real facts of his tenure they have to drop it. I think are getting a little f*#king backwards at this point.
I try to stay well out of any of these conversations, but in almost every instance the debate starts with some douchebag trashing on a guy who hasn't been UM's coach for more than 8 months. Perhaps it is them that should let it go.
Gardner sounds like the real deal, but yea, your point definitely stands.
From what I have heard (friend of a friend type situation), Gardner is THE future of the program. I first heard that when RR was still here, but the guy who told me that still maintains it as truth.
I heard exact same. Maybe we have the same source...
If you live in Ann Arbor I'd say there is a 1 in 100,000 chance.
I don't and it was kind of a joke.
i really hope this is true... especially if THE future means 2013 after denard has spent 2 years obliterating the skeptics (and opposing defenses, of course).
Empty cabinets are empty? Good thing Hoke has a Costco card and is restocking in bulk with this next class.
Note, I do believe we have a talented team right now and should win some games.
I didn't agree that the cupboard was really BARE when Lloyd left but there certainly wasn't a great deal in it. Hoke is in a much better situation with what he has though and to dismiss that is ignoring reality. One of the biggest bonuses is that we have a real QB (no offense NS). It is far easier to take a dual threat QB and turn him into a pocket passer than to take a guy who can't run and turn him into a dual threat QB running the read option. Also, it is hard to take a qb who can't run or pass and do anything with them. That was the situation during the last transisition, and I thinkk we can all agree we are in a better place this time.
over all of the others combined.
By Chengelis over twitter
It seems a bit strange to me that two players would leave the team so late in the summer, so soon before the season starts. Any reason to be nervous/confused?
It happened last year. I think they just see that they are falling behind younger guys and want a chance to play somewhere. It makes sense to get out before the season starts so that this season counts as the one they have to sit out and they can play next year.
It's common in fact, as the summer camp rolls they find themselves out of a spot in the depht chart, last summer we lost LaLota and Turner around this time of the year and Emilien after the Connecticut game
We also lost Austin White which is most similar to the loss of Posada.
Whatever the reason, losing one of our taller receivers definitely hurts the depth chart right now. This may cement us signing 2 WR's in the 2012 class vs. 1.
Jeron was only about 6 foot, so not too tall. Though for our team full of slot receivers I understand what you are saying.
I think that taking 2 WR's was going to be a given anyway. From a future depth standpoint, losing Stokes, who would be a senior next year is nowhere near as bad as losing say Jerald Robinson who will be a senior in 2014.
Didn't sound like he'd be a contributor this year but it'll hurt us next season. Not counting 2012 recruits, there's only 4 schollie WR's 6'0 or taller for next year.
Its one thing to think that (which many of us probably do) and another thing to actually voice/post it. That's hardcore and not really a cool thing to post Be the better person - wish him well and move on. I bet you did the same to TomVH, right?
This makes no sense on the surface of things, but what do I know?
I never understood why he didn't redshirt... ohh well, Best of luck to him, we should have been expecting attrition :(
Given the timing, the coaches must've not been impressed. Have fun at Pitt.
We need some receivers over 6'0 post haste.
My other alma mater is going to be exciting as hell to watch this season!
You mean next season, they all have to sit out a year. Im sure youll love Ray Vinopal back there
Right - next season. And I'm not worried about Vinopal. Pitt always gets good defensive backs. A guy by the name of Darrelle Revis seems to ring a bell . . .
I'm really hoping Wannstedt's recruiting prowess can be turned into actual big wins this year with Graham at the helm and he has a leg up getting best in conference classes anually. Also, I really, really, hope that Magee has had a serious role in the offenses at WVU and here. If so, Pitt should be a very legitimate team in the next few years.
This is all part of a sneaky plan on our part to revitalize PSU's version of MSU and remove them as a Big 10 title contender by ensuring they lose to Pitt annually.
attrition piling up
Well the good news is, we have more room for our mega-class.
Attrition happens. It happens more after a new staff comes in. If the staff has no plans for a kid, he is doing both himself and the team a favor by transferring. As long as he doesn't do a Boren going out the door, I wish him well.
I thought attrition was something that only happened under a certain former head coach ...
At some point questioning family values should come in to play.
prolly moving on because he did not crack the 2 deep and gave up. sounds more and more the depth chart at WR is
I definatly see Hayes being moved like Desmond was back in the day to WR.
The dread count at U of M is dissipating at a rapid rate. We're down to the nine guys on the football team and Attiba, the black Rastafarian from Brooklyn who lived down the hall from me freshman year. Someboy tell Hoke to get his ass down to Pahokee ASAP...
I'm glad you told us that he was a black Rastafarian, because I for one would have thought dude was white for sure...
I suggest you take a Hackey-Sack and an 8er with you there sometime and watch them come crawling out of the woodwork. Smart Guy.
Maybe he wouldn't see the field, but since I played WR in college, caused me to have a fan crush on Stokes and wanted to see him do well. I really liked his tape out of HS as well. I hope the best for him in the future. Does this make getting a top-tier receiver or 2 more of a vast importance for this recruiting class?
Where did you play? Care to share?
Div 3 School in Holland, MI
The flying dutchmen!
Played Bball at Hope til I F'd my ankle up. Cool story, right?
My computer felt like letting you know twice...
Good times had by all.
Now I have to update my NCAA roster yet again.
What game was that? The seats look pretty empty.
But, I am sure Michigan won...
Must not have liked where he sat on the depth chart after a week of practices and bolted. I remember when he switched to us from Tennessee on or near signing day and was excited because he was a playmaking WR and he wasn't 5'8". He would have had a chance to start next year with our WR departures, oh well. Pencil it in that we take 2 WRs in this class now, IMO.
Goodbye, Je'ron. You will forever be known as the guy who had the only TD catch of the 2011 spring game.
Albeit on a push off of Greg Brown.
yet another 4 star bust
To be fair, he was sitting behind nothing but other four stars on the depth chart.
Well, more opportunity for an eager young stud to emerge.
Diggs would be a huge get. Correct me if I am wrong, but I recall reading somewhere that maybe there was character concerns with Diggs, which may be why we cooled off or am I way off base and he was just never very high on us? I'll take a few 4 stars and to be honest, after a year with his pals and maybe getting himself in a postion to qualify, I wouldn't be surprised to see Burbridge switch over to the good guys.
Supposedly we backed off for some reason (there have been rumours of both academic and character issues-not going to speculate what). He also supposedly reached out to the Michigan coaches and haven`t heard anything since.
I'd be surprised if Diggs was in the class simply because it doesn't seem like we're interested. With so little room in the class and the staff making a point of not going after guys with any potential red flags, Diggs doesn't seem likely. We're looking good for other highly-rated WR's anyway.
...it is about attitude and character. Hopefully for most, the team, coupled with a degree from UM, would trump PT any day of the week.
if you were an athlete with talent enough that you (and many others) thought you could make it to the NFL but somehow you found yourself on the bench with no opportunity to showcase your talents, would you stick around because it was best for the team? Would you pass up your chance because a UM degree sounds better than a USF degree? I doubt it.
Sometimes kids don't pan out at a specific school for various reasons, but with a change of scenery break out. I think Stokes has what it takes and considering where he sat on the depth chart here, I can't blame the guy for looking for a spot somewhere that he will be able to contribute so he can realize his dream of playing in the NFL. Just because he isn't staying here doesn't mean he lacks character or has a bad attitude.
I'd rather be a star somewhere else than ride the pine and get a UM degree in Kinesiology or General Studies.
If only Rich Rod would come back, everthing would be okay once more... LOL!
C'mon man. Its not even funny. Deciding to transfer is a huge decision for a kid (maybe even bigger than committing out of high school?). There's no reason to post these kinds of "jokes" when the kid might be reading this thread. Especially when its not even a funny comment.
give it a rest! You can stop bashing the guy now, he hasn't been our head coach for 8 months now! Thank God hoke has more class than many of the posters on this board and realizes that bashing a former coach isn't going to accomplish anything.
I guess they leave in pairs too... Argh.
I was looking forward to seeing what stokes could do this year, but this could open up the opportunity for Michigan to hold a spot or two (with Posada exiting) for 5 stars wanting to wait until signing day to commit. So... I'm more or less ok with it.
Dorial Green Beckham...
Zeke Pike's not gonna be here, but you're more than welcome to join... plox??
Stephen Diggs, you can come too
Hey now. Everybody needs to be nice. I am happy for stokes and wish him the best future. Now more importantly, I can't wait to see who we get to replace him
While losing Posada and Stokes are both could cause some difficulty long term, everyone has to feel better knowing this staff is going to recruit a big time talent to take their places, compared to the guys that came on board in the last few months before signing day in RR's classes.
Wait, what? Did you just compare future hoke recruits to past RichRod recruits? Awesome. Do you happen to know some of the recruits RichRod signed in the last couple months or were you just trying to start an argument?
There are times when I would appreciate something more informative than a few terse lines, that only announce the departure of a former team member. I wish Jeron Stokes my best, and hope he lands on his feet someplace else. In the meantime, I hope everything is okay on State street.
so lets say there is alot more attrition than planned. does clark get a 12 scholie if they have one left at the end of the year? mine as well in my mind.
I predicted back in the spring that Jerald Robinson would be a stud. I was laughed at. Now it's looking more and more like he will have a chance to showcase himself this fall. Go Blue
We need someone that come in and contribute next year.
Does this mean we aren't losing a LB as speculated yesterday?
Snake oiled again ...
Have I missed any?
Gosh what a relief it is to know that there are still people out there who not only blamed Rich Rodriguez's arrival for kids transferring; now they blame Rich Rodriguez's departure for kids transferring.