Good vs Great Coaching and what are reasonable expectations?

Saban sucked at MSU.  He left town while the getting was good.  Saban is enjoying SEC home style cooking, and at "Bama he could drown puppies on statewide TV and get away with it. He is not GREAT.

I completely agree, and - i gotta be honest - I am on the fence with my optimism.

Our rivals-schedule next year is brutal...all away games! I do believe this team will be better than they are today, but I also believe all of our rivals - save ND (maybe) - will also be better than they are today. ND loses some players, but they've been able to get a lot of their backups quality playing time this year too...Also, it's the very first game of the schedule, on the road, in a relatively hostile environment. Not good.

What scares me is this team can both be better and realistically lose to all three of our primary rivals. If that happens, the media will eviscerate our program. 

straight.

You would actually evaluate JH's tenure at Michigan so far differently if (1) had the exact same W-L record, but (2) didn't engage in "antics?

You are crazy.  

"Antics" or no "antics" does not make JH a better or worse coach in any way. 

The only way to judge a coach/staff is on the plus/minus of wins as compared to expected value of wins based on overall roster talent/experience. 

Moreover, there are no "antics."  That is just click bait hype from sport writers that want to drive traffic. 

Doesn't matter who the coach is, as sooon as the alumni and fans turn on you (due to losing) and the media piles on, you're richrod or hoke at that point and singing sappy songs at a football banquet. They don't poll a few influential backers alone to see if they're dissatisfied and use that information soley to make their decision, they're asked their opinion for sure but mostly if it's gotten bad such as at the end of Hoke or Rich Rod's term, it's everyone who is pissed and unappy and the collective weight of that spurs the replacement.

As long as JH wins 8 or more of his games per year he will not be fired- even if he loses to rivals- here is why: UM is a very liberal university and JH has massive liberal political connections and sympathy. Staff and students would go nuts and shut down the U. He is very strongly supported by the University Pres and Trustees no matter what.

and his record based on his performance to date. And clearly there is room for improvement and greater success in big games, especially against our rivals.

We've been having this same argument here and elsewhere where Michigan fans gather and speak out when the team doesn't win. Every fan base does it.

Jim Harbaugh wants to win every game. We've been competitve in every game we've played this year except the second half of the Penn State game. Remember, it was a 14-13 game at half.

We've lost two extremely disappointing games to Michigan State during his tenure and experienced a blowout at the hands of the Buckeyes at home, which again, was a game we were competitive in the first half before it got out of hand.

Harbaugh's staff has changed after each of his first two years. The same folks whom he originally hired to coach with him at Michigan are not still on staff.  He's also altered coaching responsibilities among his staff. When he lost his DC to Maryland's head coaching job, he went out and got Don Brown to replace him. So, the defense that got turned around in his first year under Durkin, got even better last year, the second of two 10-win seasons.

The idea that this coach is reluctant to evaluate staff or look at his program seriously to make it better is beyond ludicrous. And, as for the alleged antics that people are suggesting here are a program drawback, are all based on his efforts to both raise the profile of Michigan's recruiting to an elite level and break new recruiting ground for the school in places where it hasn't had a lot of success. Harbaugh is a lightening rod and lot of folks are envious.

Whether this team plays an exciting brand of football depends on your point of view about the evolution of the game. But for those who insist as we enter Ohio State week that Harbaugh isn't a Bo devotee in the way he runs his program, his team and the way it actually plays, they never saw Bo coach or his team play. Harbaugh models much of his team concepts and player development ideas based on his own Michigan experience. I can see it in the way he uses his personnel especially at tightend and fullback. This is old school power football borne from his time in Ann Arbor and as a pro quarterback and as a coach himself working alongside his dad, brother and other mentors.

The reason he gets paid a lot now is because of his past success and achievement, which was the price of hiring him. And reconstructing a program in your own image so it can succeed on an elite level means you grow it from competitive against everyone to become the bully that no one wants to face. Michigan is obviously not there yet. But it certainly lifted the stakes with his hire and every school we play wants to knock us off the pedestal, especially because of "this" Harbaugh. They even created a new sideline coaching rule because of him.

You know that Michigan games routinely draw better on TV than any other school. My God, the Michigan-Indiana game was the most watched college football game of that Saturday.

Regardless of your disappointment this season, and I've felt the anguish just like everyone else, I have no doubts about the direction of this team or its growth. And Michigan hasn't had 55 points scored on it by Iowa, either, and still have people claim that the coach of that team is one of the greatest in the game. You can suck on any given Saturday and still be redeemed, apparently.