Glimpse from your future: PSU attendance down due to mandatory donations
Even B1G games aren't selling out in Happy Valley.
http://readingeagle.com/article.aspx?id=341623
Under the STEP program, season-ticket holders must pay $100 per seat to the Nittany Lion Club for seats in the end zone and stretching to near the 10-yard line, plus the price of the ticket ($55 per game).
Season-ticket holders with seats between the 10s must pay $400, $600 and $1,000 per seat to the NLC. Those are the sections where most of the empty seats have been located.
Sounds familiar.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:33 AM ^
gimpse haha
October 26th, 2011 at 11:34 AM ^
...how do you know what they will look like?
October 26th, 2011 at 11:37 AM ^
that's stupid on penn state's part
October 26th, 2011 at 11:37 AM ^
One of Satan's lesser inventions.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:38 AM ^
Honestly, I think that they look at how much people donate each year, picked a number of season tickets they are aiming to sell, and did a cut off at that point. Any increases in donation from people who donate lesser amounts is a bonus for them. This will free up tickets for the package deals, which they can sell at higher prices per game, and single game tickets.
I really don't think they went into this without doing a huge evaluation of the situation. If they do get themselves into a bind, they could lower the amount to $250 to get more people on the waiting list again.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:40 AM ^
I'm not so smart and thus cannot figure out what is going on with the waiting list for next year. Is the new policy that we have to pay/donate more than the $10 "application charge" that was required in the past to get on the waiting list? If so, why would they want to thin out the waiting listers?
October 26th, 2011 at 12:13 PM ^
I got the letter while I was on vacation, so I read Brian's post here first, and didn't bother with the actual letter. (Just to get full disclosure out of the way)
But, you have a lot of people just adding themselves to the waiting list and not doing anything. I think the goal is ultimately to bring in more money via donations. Let's say that you have 100,000 people on the waiting list and 50,000 actually get season tickets. I'm guessing that $500 donation is somewhere around the 60th or 70th percentile. That would mean that they are betting the donations for the last 10,000-20,000 seats that they can get people to up their donations from $0-499 to $500. If they don't, then any seats that remain will be sold in the packaged deals or single tickets at the higher rates. It's basically a win-win for the AD because they are charging more per ticket in any case.
So, it's not so much a thinning of the waiting list, but a shit-or-get-off-the-pot move. IIRC, season tickets average out to somewhere in the $50s, so a donation of $300 puts the cost of the ticket at $100 (for a 6-game season), well ahead of the single price tickets. I can't imagine that they would go much below that if too many people removed themselves from the waiting list.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:29 PM ^
I think that sounds about right, but for a lot of people they are going to be on the pot, trying to shit, but if you don't donate enough money nothing is going to come out. Sort of a vulgar metaphor, but I guess you started it. Each year everyone who wants to be on the wait list is going to have to donate money - in return they may or may not get a chance to buy tickets.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:48 PM ^
Technically true,
But with each donation, their chances of getting tickets goes way up...
October 26th, 2011 at 1:20 PM ^
That's also true, but being forced to donate to the AD simply to be on the waitlist is ridiculous. Especially if that donated amount doesn't reduce the amount you have to donate in order to get upgraded seats. Does anyone know if the waitlist donation can be applied to the minimum donation required to actually buy the tickets?
October 26th, 2011 at 1:51 PM ^
6 years ago after being on the list for a few years - before they starting doing this crap. I'm not sure we would have been willing to put up $500 just to stay on the list - tax deduction or no tax deduction.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:39 AM ^
But the gimp's sleeping.
Well I guess you're gonna have to go wake him up, now won't ya?
October 26th, 2011 at 11:42 AM ^
I think this has been going on for a while here. Not terribly sure when it started, but for as long as I was on the waiting list, you had to donate at least $100 to get the endzone seats, $1000 (I think) for the "outer" sideline and even more for between the 40s.
But, so far we've still been selling out and filling it up.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:52 AM ^
selling out? yes.
filling up? not so much.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:34 PM ^
October 26th, 2011 at 10:12 PM ^
4 tix together at 15 each for EMU on the 30 - stubhub
2 together at 10 each on the 5 for SDSU - out front, 30 minutes before kick
2 together at 10 each on the 25 for Minnesota - out front, 45 minutes before kick
2 together at ?? each on the ?? for Purdue - ??
Love the season ticket holders, but the license fees, stubhub-type outlets and alternating crappy year home schedules are bound to get people thinking...
October 26th, 2011 at 11:44 AM ^
So are you saying, a second deck on the Big House is more or less likely?
October 26th, 2011 at 11:56 AM ^
We've had 100K+ since 1975, where I think they just expanded in 2001. M football is a unique animal
http://bentley.umich.edu/athdept/stadium/stadtext/mattend.htm
Fergodsakes
October 26th, 2011 at 12:26 PM ^
Having worked at the stadium for several years now I question the attendance figures, especially for the EMU and Minnesota games.
But as long as they force people to buy seats to unpopular opponents so they can secure seats to the 'good' opponents ( Western/Nebraska ticket package, for example) they'll still sell out.
During the EMU game I had multiple people come through my gate with extra tickets to give away...
If the economy gets worse I suspect things will change... but then it doesn't matter, as long as rich people can afford seats no one will care.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:53 PM ^
are tickets sold, plus everyone else in the stadium (concession workers, media, security, first aid, etc).
If all those extra tickets that people were holding had been purchased, they are counted towards the attendance figure whether or not people used those tickets.
October 26th, 2011 at 11:58 AM ^
Well, it's a good thing that they don't take attendance to the bank, they take money. It's entirely possible that they run lower attendance and make more money.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:11 PM ^
you are one capitalist Castro.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:23 PM ^
That was kind of ironic wasn't it?
October 27th, 2011 at 7:27 AM ^
October 26th, 2011 at 12:06 PM ^
at least 2005 for season ticket holders.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:08 PM ^
less than one minute apart...
October 26th, 2011 at 12:12 PM ^
These tiered donations are only required when you are offered season tickets. What they are doing now is requiring a non-refundable donation simply to get on the waiting list! Its insane.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:22 PM ^
PSU is just doing the same thing to season ticket holders as I indicated UM does above. (Just with a little stiffer tariff.)
EDIT- PSU even links to other programs (including Michigan) in B1G to sell it: http://www.gopsusports.com/sports/c-lionclub/step-others.html
October 26th, 2011 at 12:41 PM ^
Maybe PSU should bundle in a free pair of JoPa 100x magnafication glasses for no extra cost.
October 26th, 2011 at 2:18 PM ^
There must be a great picture of him on the interwebs frying an ant with those glasses in the sun.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^
There is really no risk to making a donation to get on the list for season tickets at this time. Right? You are going to get season tickets, in very short order... right? Or not?
October 26th, 2011 at 12:37 PM ^
A $500 donations gets you consideration for season tickets, but with no guarantee. A $100 donation and you may get single game offers also know as EMU, Central, Akron.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:37 PM ^
Having made a $500 donation, you get on a season ticket waiting list...
Do you need to keep making annual donations to stay on the list? Or does your $500 get you on to the wait list for two years, insofar as they recalculate Victors Club points every other year?
Having made a $500 donation, what is the typical time that one might remain on the waiting list until they become a season ticket holder? Has anyone waited more than two years for tickets if they have made, say, a $100 donation in Year One and a $500 donation in Year Two?
My presumption is that anyone who makes a $500 donation doesn't have to wait too long to get a season ticket subscription. (And I further presume that the general status quo has changed from time to time. I remember a time when the waiting list for season tickets was very long; that was before PSD's when old-time long-term season ticket holders just renewed every year and there was very little turnover in subscribers. I think it has actually gotten more fluid now, and easier to get tickets, with the kicker being that you have to pony up some cash to the Athletic Department to get them.)
Am I mistaken about any of that?
October 26th, 2011 at 12:32 PM ^
October 26th, 2011 at 12:07 PM ^
Although the prices are different; about half of what PSU is demanding. Those numbers from Penn State are very surprising -- very high.
You can see what Michigan does on the Victors Club website; premium and club seats are up around $1000 ea.
Victors = $500 ea.
Valiant = $375 ea.
Maize = $250 ea.
Blue = $125 ea.
End Zone = $50 ea.
That is for each seat, every year, before the price of the tickets.
Seats between the 35 and the goal line
October 26th, 2011 at 12:13 PM ^
...you could see why they are not selling out. Happy Valley is a long way from somewhere, there are woefully too few hotel rooms (see the first point), the stadium resembles a giant erector set in a pasture, the in-game experience is overwhelmed by pom-poms and cheesy piped-in music and PSU really hasn't been very good of late. I am sure price is part of it (2x U-M for that experience?), but it's still cheaper than Steelers season tix.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
. . . both for Michigan games, in addition to watching the crowd involvement in their night games. In my experience, the PSU fans are spectacular. What you say is true about the lodging/arrangements, but the in-game experience was amazing both times I was there (one for a loss in the 1995 Snow Bowl and the 1997 victory). So I have to disagree with your assessment of the in-game experience, but I do agree that it definitely is not twice as good as the Michigan gameday experience!
October 26th, 2011 at 12:46 PM ^
Why do you think everyone drives an RV to the game? Seems to work well for them.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:14 PM ^
I am a current PSU grad student (UM alum) and one of the other problems with the Penn State policy is that they altered the sections comprising the "student section" this season. The student section previously followed a similar arrangement to that of UM, but this season, the student section was shifted further around the endzone and extending around only to approx. the goal line. As a result, season ticket holders were once again displaced (from the endzone)...arguably with hopes they would upgrade their seats to the previous sections comprising the student section (from around the goal line to the 30 yd. line). Obviously, these seats were more expensive to begin with. The concrete price difference, combined with the emotion vitriol of displaced ticket holders to the athletic department has culminated into general displeasure with the new policy and decreased ticket sales
October 26th, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^
And the stadium still sells out obviously. The "glimpse from the future" was the sight of a partially empty stadium due to a fan base squeezed just a bit too much. Seems like PSU has found that breaking point. We're on our way.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^
We spoke with the Victor's Club earlier this year to get a read on how much exactly is was going to cost us to get off the waitlist and into prime (non-endzone) ticket nirvana. The price at that time was $1,500 per seat. That was the figure thrown at us to get move up to the top of the waitlist; giving you enough "points" @ 10/$100 donation. This of course was independent of your ticket prices and future seat licenses. U of M football has instantly become my number one most expensive hobby.
October 26th, 2011 at 12:59 PM ^
As someone who had 1 leg and a half over the fence on finally pulling the trigger on season tickets these new policies couldnt have came at a worse time.
$500 is alot of cash just for the opportunity to be considered for season tix. My fear is exactly as described above. If the goal is to reduce the waitlist and 20,000 fans pony up> $500 then it becomes a pissing contest into who can donate the most for end zone tickets.
I dont know, I really really want to do this but am hesitent to get bent over.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:43 PM ^
I'll take the $500 and put it toward my scalper fund. I think the face value of season tickets is about $600/ ticket. I'm not super pumped about paying $1200 for two tickets since it is likely more than the second hand market value but I'm willing to do it because my seats are guaranteed and the money goes to the school. The extra $500 is too much when you consider the tickets aren't guaranteed and it will end up being a total price of $1700 for two tickets. I'll take my chances with scalpers.
I think I make a pretty good living and Michigan football is a pretty high priority for me but season tickets are not an option given the current circumstances.
Oh well...
October 26th, 2011 at 3:28 PM ^
I think I make a pretty good living and Michigan football is a pretty high priority for me but season tickets are not an option given the current circumstances.This sentence describes me perfectly as well. I am able to go to games thanks to some family price subsidization. I really wonder how far they can go before they've priced out enough of the fanbase to really start leaving seats empty.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:06 PM ^
This is the culmination of something that began 4 or 5 years ago. People that held the same seats for generations (lots of dead people were still renewing) were being forced to move. Say your family had good seats at the 50 yard line before, well those seats were moved to a corner section unless you were willing to pay some garbage fee to keep your seats.
After enough of those people were rousted, the premium seats were then resold along with a PSL to higher tiers of "donors" to the NLC. It was very upsetting to a lot of oldsters who have supported PSU through thick and thin since JoePa arrived. They just cannot afford this, and they have finally gotten to see the corporate face of college sports.
Couple all of this with a coach who has had at least one stroke that won't be acknowledged, no succession plan, and midling performances - you get games that aren't sold out. I just wonder how long it will be until we see tarps covering vast portions of seats...with a corporate sponsor logo on them of course.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:23 PM ^
There's rumblings there will soon be a seat license, er, PSD, for Michigan Basketball and Hockey as well. How much farther are we going to go with this?
October 26th, 2011 at 1:44 PM ^
It will be great for all the blue hairs! They won't have to put up with all the rabble -- their incessant cheering, jumping up on an exciting play, etc.
It will be nice and quiet with all the venues only half full -- also a lot roomier.
October 26th, 2011 at 1:33 PM ^
Top 1% have 50% of the seats
#OccupyBigHouse
October 26th, 2011 at 1:40 PM ^
Let's do the math.
6,000 less season tickets (8 games) at 55 per game is 2 MILLION 640 thousand dollars!!
Penn State is now at an unbelievable 94.63 percent of capacity. (M is still at 101.45 %). PSU capacity is over 106,000 so they are running over 6,000 seats less per game.
It would take 26,400 season pass holders in the end zone paying $100 per seat just to break even. Not sure there are that many seats in the end zone.
So, dropping the seat tax for end zone seats would actually make money.
And, fill the stadium!!
October 27th, 2011 at 4:53 AM ^
That's assuming all the lost sales are in the endzone. The OP however said that most were in the areas that require $400+ donations. At those levels, about 50% would have to go unsold for them to make less money. Right. I'm pretty sure they're making out quite all right.