the hell is Tommy Gholston?
Gholston Listed as Starter / Suspension?
It's actually Tom Gholson.
Will Tom Gholston
Supposedly, one of the reasons he chose MSU over Michigan was because on one of his recruiting visits, he was called Tom instead of William. So Lewan was calling him Tom during the game, which some people considered racist because of the whole "Uncle Tom" thing, but really was a reference to being called by the wrong name for an entirety of a recruiting trip.
This was at least my understanding. Anyone correct me where I'm wrong.
Fwiw it wasn't one trip, it happened several times over a period of weeks. Will loved um and even said he was close to committing until he started feeling disrespected. Can't really blame him... damn RR.
BS...he never liked us
Yeah, I was a premium member on Scout.com at that time and I don't remember any of the experts--including Sam Webb--stating that UM was ever in good position with Gholston. He was the recruit who lived with his HS coach who was a former Sparty and is now on the MSU football staff.
Yeah, Vernon was a potential lead for UM before he felt disrespected by Carr (not saying it was real, but that's the story). There was no way Gholston was going to UM; the only question was if he would have wound up at OSU or MSU.
Yeah, I call bullshit on his "Tom" story, and when a hobo calls you out, you know you're full of it!
But it was nice of Tom to give us something to call him for the next few years.
Chunks: your pic...from Vegas? I swear I saw that sign there a year ago.
...maybe 4 years ago. I've since assumed it isn't unique, perhaps even somewhat widely used. Like the "why lie - I need a beer" signs--I've seen those in many different cities.
BS story made up to pile on RR's grave.
Is it possible someone called the kid by the wrong name? Sure.
Is it possible they kept inviting a top talent to the school and then calling him the wrong name repeatedly? No
Gholston was a 5 star kid who was slated for MSU from the get go. If he gave the Mich coaches any indication he had interest he was made a top priority when he came and people would have known his name. It's not like he was some random 2 star recruit who was lumped in with the masses and easily mistaken for someone else.
The source is Will himself, guys. Will said he liked UM. Will said he was close to committing to UM. Will said he finally had enough of being called "Tom" and, in Will's words, "started thinking who's this 'Tom' guy they keep talking about?". He started getting in a lot closer with the MSU staff after that. But he was the one who said he considered UM for a long time.
I know how the recruitment went/looked, I know he had a lot of MSU influences, but he himself said he thought very highly of UM.
Will also said that he went to Brady Hoke to "thank" him after the game. Will is a sociopath. And if you think that Will is truthfully telling you, now that he's been a member of Pat Narduzzi's defense in E. Lansing, that he was ever close to commiting to Michigan, but for the name "Tom," there is some swampland in Ingham County that I'd like to sell you.
I thought Gholston commited because his live-in pimp got a cushy fake job with the athletic department. I stand corrected.
William "Don't call me Tommy!" Gholston.
Supposedly Gholston's defense for his behavior in Saturday's game was that Lewan was calling him "Tom" or "Tommy" because someone had mistakenly called Gholston that on his trip to AA when he was a recruit and it ticked WG off.
Joe Rexnode in his LSJ blog writes a good summary of where the possible suspension process is at. He feels that the 'punch' will definitely get a suspension and the 'facemask twist' (a worse case in his mind) will not help his situation.
"The Big Ten Sportslike Conduct Agreement states that "It shall be the responsibility of each member university to ensure that all of its students and all individuals employed by or directly associated with it comport themselves in a sportslike manner when representing their university, especially at intercollegiate athletic contests." So the onus is on MSU to punish the player, but (like listing him as a starter against Wisconsin) apparently they are content to ignore this issue.
Also, from the Big Ten rule book:
Acts of unsportslike conduct shall include, but not be limited to the following:
1. Striking or attempting to strike or otherwise physically abusing an official, opposing coach, spectator or athlete. Any person committing such an act shall be subject to the following penalties:
a. First offense: A public reprimand and suspension for up to 50%
of the scheduled contests in the sport as deemed appropriate.
Unless the NCAA comes out and says, "You're suspended for 1 game for your homicidal actions," then I can't even fathom that St Dantonio will keep him out of the game. I know this super obvious statement is super obvious but oh well. I also thought the body slam well after the pass was grounds for a suspension fwiw.
Best case scenario: MSU decides to play him against Wisconsin and MSU gets stomped anyway, then the Big Ten steps in because of MSU's failure to act, and they lose to Nebraska as a result.
I am not holding my breath, though. It is becoming harder and harder to find teams and coaches that value integrity in CFB.
does everyone keep talking about one game when the rule is up to half remaining games as appropriate. What seems appropriate in this case is half the remaining games. What worse could he have done than punch Lewan and try to unscrew Denard's head after a play?
Dantonio crashed it from replaying the video over and over whilst, um, touching himself.
Giggity Giggity Gooo, oh no! It's ectoplasm - I swear!
How exactly do we know that he wasn't called a racial slur?
We don't and he very well could have been. That said, there are very explicit rules regarding punching or attacking other players. There aren't any rules on punishment for one player saying something mean to the other with no one else around to confirm it...
We don't. Does that still justify his behavior? Especially his facemask yank against Denard.
I dunno, I think his punch against Lewan is a bit more understandable if it was directly in response to a racial slur.
Taylor Lewan is not a racist. Come on. Use your brain.
Ah Taylor may not be but perhaps Tyler Lewan is?
Your argument is invalid. I don't hate my wife, but I do say some pretty mean things in the heat of the moment if we are fighting.
Replace 'my wife' with minorities and 'fighting' with football. There you go...
Point taken. What I was trying to get at was that in the heat of the moment, things can be said that don't really have a bearing on your true feelings on a subject.
Also, all racists say derogatory things. Does that mean that all people who say derogatory things are racist? No. If I call your mom a whore, it doesn't mean I really think your mom is a whore. I'm just trying to piss you off. So saying that Lewan isn't racist does not mean he couldn't say these things.
I'm not saying he did, but it's not exclusive.
"I don't hate 'minorities', but I do say some pretty mean things in the heat of the moment if we are 'football'."
Correction: I meant to say 'footballing'.
I'm certainly not saying Lewan is a racist. All I was trying to say was that a punch thrown in a football game is more understandable if it's in response to a racial slur than if it's completely random. I definitely don't want to disparage any of the guys on the team, especially a hard worker like Lewan.
do you mean "permissable?"
The problem is, people then just say "well he called me [insert whatever here]" in order to get off the hook for flagrant personal fouls.
Words are one thing, but you can't retaliate in a physical way outside of the rules in the game. By all means, block him into the turf, tackle someone hard, etc. But nasty things are said and that's just how it is.
Is it justified to go break someone's arm in a Starbucks for saying something racist to me? Maybe. Are you still going to get arrested and prosecuted? Absolutely.
And his punch was a lot more understandable if it was in response to a threat by Lewan to rape his mother and then blow up a federal building in the name of al Qaeda. There is no evidence that any of that happened, though, so it doesn't matter. There is instead a very understandable story about how the use of the name "Tom" was confused for a slur later on Twitter.
invented by an RCMBer with no basis, just conjecture. it should not be repeated on here as truth/fact/what happened because it was a theory, without any knowledge of even what Lewan said.
I didn't mean to imply that Lewan said anything about "Tom." Even a false rumor can be the basis for another false one, though. You can see how the RCMB story could morph into the racial slur story.
Why would Lewan be spitting out racial slurs when most of his team is black? Seems like a weak-ass attempt at justification by Tom Gholston.
response to Lewan holding his head down on the turf.
Of course, he overlooked that he was playing dirty for most the game prior to that moment.
I love your avatar. Great moment in
boxing football history. Excellent right hook/uppercut. My bucknut roommates in particular enjoy when I bring it up.
that the Clemson player was calling Woody "Tom" throughout the game prior to the incident.
Wait, was it an "Uncle Tom" reference or "no one was nice to me on my recruiting trip and they called me Tom" reference because I've heard Gholston supporters use both to justify his actions - not to mention the judo arm bar well before the punch.
I am surprised #5 on msu didn't lash out and do that because of how Roundtree threw him to the ground by his facemask early in the game.
You should probably just stick to the RCMB, Sparty.
And since Denard's also WHITE, he pulled his facemask because he was also calling him a racial slur. GET THE F.CK OUTTA HERE!!
And since Denard's also WHITE, he pulled his facemask because he was also calling him a racial slur. GET THE F.CK OUTTA HERE!!
oops triple post!!
Gholston's most egregious offense was against Denard. I highly doubt that anything Denard said to him could be construed as a "racial slur."
But having a press conference and accusing Michigan players of that would be a typical Douche-tonio* move to deflect responsibility and criticism for the felonious behavior displayed by Gholoston and some of his teammates.
* Not a nickname; resereved only for when he does something douchey.
While I agree that calling someone an Uncle Tom is a slur, would it make much sense for Lewan to call Gholston that? I'm a white guy who lives in whiteville, so maybe I'm wrong. It made sense to me why Jalen Rose would think Duke was a bunch of Uncle Toms, whoever Lewan calling Gholston that would make no sense.
And there is a perfectly good reason why he might have been using the name Tom. This is a bunch of b.s.
Bingo. But all the usual dummies will take the OMFG RACISM! bait anyway.
and the irony is that Tom is a non-violent man, refuses to follow the master's orders to beat others, and gets beat to death himself (without resisting) for his disobedience.
Calling a black man "Tom" is a shade better than calling him "n*****". If things happened as is being said - i don't know what to believe - i'd figure Lewan probably never realized that part, but to Gholston it's a total affront. So there's not much room for understanding here. It becomes a toxic brew on the field, whether one agrees with it being "right" or "wrong."
There is/was a well-known story about why the name Tom would be used, the recruiting story. More, in the recruiting story, Gholston was upset that he was being called the wrong name, not that he was being called Tom in particular. I imagine that he would have mentioned being offended for racial reasons if he had in fact been so offended.
The Uncle Tom thing seems hugely unlikely. Most of Michigan's and MSU's players are black. So why would Lewan deem Gholston an Uncle Tom for playing at State? Makes absolutely no sense. Also, how often do white people call black people Uncle Toms? It's an epithet black people apply to other black people.This Tom thing sounds like something a Sparty -- or Gholston himself -- manufactured as an excuse.
Yeah, I'm convinced. Wasn't trying to flame anything up here, we're just all having a discussion, and I think it's a good one.
Meanwhile, never meant to imply that I thought what Gholston did in the end was excusable in any way. I think that D'Antonio's comment says it all.
How dare you accuse such a pillar of society things such as making things up. Further, I that anyone doubts Gholson when he said he went up to Hoke afterwards and said "thanks for bringing the program back." I'm just confused as to why Hoke couldn't confirm that. Maybe 'cause it didn't happen and Hoke didn't want to call him out?
confusion on the whole "Tom" story, we can just refer to him as "Thomas" Gholston from now on. Or if that still offends some people, we can just call him "That F#$%ing thug from MSU" Gholston instead.
Also, Gholston didn't seem all that upset about the incident when reporters asked him after the game, as I imagine he would be if Lewan really said that, and he really took it that way. Instead, he just had a stupid sheepish look on his face and said he forgot both plays... As if he just blacks out when he's in the game. The whole situation is completely transparent. I'll be amazed and disappointed if anyone believes his BS outside of EL. Disgusting behavior.
No, to Gholston it's not a total affront. It's Lewan bringing up an issue from Gholston's recruiting that Gholston came out and told a story about. If what you said was true, no black parents would ever name their kid Tom. In this situation, without "Uncle" in front of it, it's just a fucking name. Obvioulsy without any back story, Tom might be taken as racist, but the circumstances here make it completely different.
wanted to make a racist statement, I'm sure he could come up with something better than calling him "Tom" . I suppose if he called him "a Tom" that would fit the racist accusation a little better. So it's just a coincidence that Gholston claims he chose MSU over UM was because he was repeatedly called Tom on a recruiting visit?
How exactly do we know that he wasn't called a racial slur?
We have no idea what was said. We do, however, know that Gholston punched him (among other infractions). There is no reason to assume Lewan said anything objectionable besides the fact that Gholston punched him. The burden of proof is on Gholston here, not Lewan.
Kind of, but not really.
In our justice/cultural system we say "Innocent until proven guilty" but the accused are hardly treated that way, especially when it's something so touchy. I'm not comparing or contrasting the two, but two instances where the accused is automatically viewed as extremely guilty are rape & racism.
actually that is not right. Once the prosecution or plaintiff has established all elements of the crime (both the act and the guilty mindset), the burden shifts to the defendant to establish a justification/excuse defense, known in legal terms as an affirmative defense. The "guilty mindset," or mens rea, for battery is only the intent to actually strike someone (which is clearly satisfied here). if gholston wanted to say "yeah i did it (which is obvious) but i had good reason," the burden would be on him to present a valid excuse.
in this case, being called "tom," which wasnt short for "uncle tom" but was instead referencing the fact that gholston was mistakenly called "tom" on one of his michigan visits, is probably not an awsome excuse.
As others have pointed out, we don't know with 100% certainty. But we can get to 99.9+% through circumstantial evidence. Consider the following:
- Gholston proved himself to be a douche on other occasions during the game.
- Gholston (and State) desperately want to shift focus from indefensible dirty play on several occasions, and "at least dodgy" play on others. Playing the race card is a convenient way to do that.
- It's a pretty safe guess that Lewan's teammates wouldn't be down with him tossing racial epithets during the game. Do we really think that Ricky Barnum would be cool with this? (They play kind of close to one another. A lot.) His other teammates, white or black? No freakin’ way.
- We have a fully understandable story as to why Lewan might have called Gholston "Tom" - based on the recruiting visits where someone supposedly called him Tom instead of William. If Gholston felt dissed because one of his suitors kept calling him by the wrong name, that seems like legitimate trash talk fodder. (Can go two ways on this - (1) we cared about you so little we did not bother to learn your name, or (2) you were such a prima donna about somebody accidentally calling you by the wrong name that I'm going to mock you for it. I'm cool with either of those tacks.)
- We have never caught a whiff of any allegation of racism pointed toward Lewan.
- As bad an epithet as "Uncle Tom" is, it is likely to be applied to someone who is viewed as overly-conforming to "white" society. How the hell would that fit Gholston?
- Also, "Uncle Tom" seems much more likely to be uttered by an African American to another African American. Otherwise it loses its impact – see the bullet point immediately above.
- Did I mention that Gholston proved himself to be a douche on other occasions during the game? I did? Good.
I'm sure the "internal review" will go on until they after they play Nebraska and Wisconsin, and he'll be suspended for the Minnesota game.
The B1G offices are on this. MSU has 3 days to respond otherwise they will take action. I'm betting some sort of decision will be made today.
I'd probably wait a few days to see what happens before everybody gets their panties in a knot. There may be questions from the B1G that have been directed toward Lewan or Denard. It is only Tuesday morning. Let's wait to see what Danfonio has to say in his presser, assuming it happens.
MD: "The lack of composure is frustrating, but we're not coaching that."
What?! That isn't coached?
He's supposed to twist the face mask deep in the pile, not out on the fringe where it can be seen. Lack of composure. Poor coaching.
Someone is going to suspend him, it is just a matter of who and how long.
When is the big ten going to acknowledge this situation? Dantonio does not believe in punishment. Hell, he's the one who told the 20 year old kid that he's teaching to do it. It's pretty clear why his players don't get drafted. They have no morals or respect.
...indicated that he has been in contact with the league office about the incidents.
MSU does not suspend anyone but does pay a lot of lip service to discipline, and the media is transfixed by Dantonio's stern words, figures that anyone with that jaw must promote discipline, and forgets about Saturday.
I disagree. I think much of the media, notably Adam Ritternberg with ESPN, is as vastly disenchanted with Dantonio-discipline as we are.
As soon as Mark Schlabach's glowing columns about the wonderfully intense Michigan State Spartan football teams contain a mention of their goonishness, I'll believe what you're saying. Until then, Rittenberg remains the exception that proves the rule.
"MSU issues a statement from AD Mark Hollis saying it has been notified of a "possible sportslike conduct violation.""
well B10 is on this, and in all honesty if they are I would prefer they handel it instead of MSU doing the smart thing and just suspending him preemptively
...from the way Taylor Lewan was tossing him around like a rag doll.
A point that keeps getting missed on the facemask twisting play against Denard is watch how he comes into the pile. He comes in with one knee aimed at Denard's ribs.
He is clearly attempting to break Denard's ribs, then he grabs the facemask and does the neck twist.
He should be banned from college football for either act.
He is clearly attempting to break Denard's ribs.
Come on, there's no need for sensationalistic hyperbole. If he really did lead with his knee, that just makes a douchey play even douchier.
MSU issues a statement from AD Mark Hollis saying it has been notified of a "possible unsportsmanlike conduct violation."
Anyone know what this is referring to??
Dantonio talks a goodd game but acts like a scumball by doing nothing. Wow, sounds alot like Tressel. I wonder if these guys know each other?
If you are serious, Dantonio was one of Tressel's assistants (and by many accounts worshipped the man and his ways)
FAIL. He was clearly not serious.
Relatively low number of points suggested maybe he didn't know. Not a fail.
Deep--My tongue was implanted firmly in my cheek.
Just a matter of time until it catches up with Dantonio too.
Hollis: "I take sportsmanship seriously, but it's equally important for me to evaluate this game and the particular play in its totality."
Read as: "He's good at football and he may improve our chances of beating Wisconsin so it's all good"
Man...that says it all.
"This is an isolated incident and Coach D and his staff will continue to emphasize the importance of maintaining one's composure during the heat of the moment," Hollis' statement reads.
This is, of course, after Gholston went back out to play after each of his personal fouls.
Absolutely. And tatgate was an isolated incident that is in no way indicative of real problems in the Ohio State athletic department.
Mark Hollis would never say totality. The guy has bad grammar and rolls with the situation.
Naturally, this sentiment applies to Gholston, Dantonio, Narduzzi and Hollis.
I wish there was some way he could be suspended for the Nebraska game instead. I don't think there is a chance they can beat Wisconsin no matter who plays, but not having him against Nebraska could cost them the game. Maybe he'll get two games out of it since it involved multiple occurances.
...Denard and Lewan could choose the games when Gholston, Bush, and Narduzzi serve their sentences.
I wish there was some way he could be suspended for the Nebraska game instead.
"I take sportsmanship seriously, but..."
"I take sportsmanship seriously except when I don't."
I think that Dantonio will come out and say that that sort of behavior will not be tolerated, and the media will believe him. He will then talk in some circles and discuss how punishments have been doled out, Gholston has had to do stadium stair runs in the morning, etc.
Finally, NO QUESTIONS.
The statement of Hollis seems to be aimed at the "punch". For how can one look at the totality of the play is we're looking at the Denard helmet twist.
How much do we bet that the Helmet twist, which is quite frankly the far worse play is going to be overlooked. The focus will be on the punch and only the punch.
I hope I'm wrong.
...because the B1G will not. There's some chance if MSU gave him a one-game suspension and cited both events, it might stand. If they announce a suspension and don't mention the more egregious offense, the B1G will pile on.
My guess is they suspend him for the first half and say something about his actions not being acceptable but that he was provoked by a "racial slur".
I wonder what they will claim Denard called Gholston to merit the pile-on-facemask-twist?
Denard probably accused him of bobbing for apples in toilets.
1) That was not a kick. You can clearly see Roundtree is hobbling on an ankle and there is obviously no force behind his foot when it comes in contact with Sparty's facemask.
2) That should probably have been an illegal hands to the face or facemasking penalty, but there is a big difference between blocking someone legally and having your hands slide up as you block (happens a lot), and flying into a pile, kneeing the defenseless quarterback in the ribs and twisting his facemask. Sparty here was not defenseless, he was just getting pwned from the start.
That's not even close to a close comparison. For the sake of fairness though, let's compare:
Roundtree v. Adams
RR and Adams are engaged in a scuffle after the play. Adams is pushing RR, RR is pushing Adams. RR grabs Adams' facemask, Adams loses his balance and falls over, tripping RR in the process. I've seen plays like this many times. Typically, if a flag is thrown, both players involved are flagged.
Gholston v. Robinson
Robinson has been tackled and is at the bottom of a pile, unable to move himself. Gholston runs in, well after the play is over, dives into Robinson knee-first, grabs his facemask and proceeds to try to break his neck. I've never seen something like this happen before. Have you?
Gholston v. Lewan (Round 1)
Lewan is handling Gholston quite easily, blocking him down the field. As the play ends, Gholston jabs Lewan in the forearm with an arm bar, then pulls Lewan to the ground, rolling over his arm. Lewan is injured from the play. I've never seen a play quite like this. Have you?
Gholston v. Lewan (Round 2)
Lewan is handling Gholston quite easily. Lewan blocks Gholston into the ground and holds him there, Gholston gets up and punches Lewan in the throat. I've seen something similar to this happen a few times, most of the time, the guy throwing the punch gets ejected and (in the NFL) fined.
I feel like the arm bar was worse than all the plays. This looked like a WWF move more than any other from the day.
of the arm bar?
I don't doubt that it happend, I'd just like to see it.
And we're the whiney ones. Alright.
Replace Denard with Kirk Cousins, Tom Gholson with Craig Roh, and then wallow in the hypocrisy...
This board is starting to feel like RCMB. Isn't it time to kill this account (MasonB)?
You wouldn't be disheartened if you saw an opposing player try to paralyze your Heisman candidate at quarterback?
A Heisman candidate playing quarterback at MSU? I must have missed something.
Ridiculous comparison. For one thing, this example isn't anywhere near as bad as yanking someone's next or giving an arm-bar. Not even close. The example you site happens about 20 times a game. It's a penalty, maybe. But that's it.
For another thing, the league reviews all penalties and/or questionable plays. Teams always submit to the league any plays they find objectionable. Had the play you mention crossed the line, the player would have been suspended. The league has actually been pretty straightforward of late. Punches or behavior intended to cause serious harm are met with suspensions.
Well it's A) DURING the play, B) They're grappling each other & one player isn't defenseless, C) Roundtree obviously has some jersey there, and as they were battling each other his hand moved up.
He did not kick him, you douche, he was regaining his balance. Good try though. This is the exact same as Tom Gholston jumping into a pile late & then twisting a defenseless player's face mask. You're dumb. ;)
This is the lamest thing in the world. This happens like every play. I'm sorry for whoever spent the time to find this and put it in slomo on youtube. Really sad, and typical of MSU. Please make something else up to be outraged about. Its entertaining.
P.S., Tom Gholson did THREE things in that game, any of which taken alone would be enough to suspend him for at least a game. Your douche of a coach didn't even take him out of the game in which it occurred. Keep fishing, though...
Maybe this is being overlooked because Adams is wrapped up with Roundtree and it's far from clear-cut who is responsible for the impetus/momentum that takes Adams to the ground. Maybe it's just because Spartans are terrible at the internet. Do you have any video of this that wasn't shot using the Zapruder family's personal recording equipment pointed at a TV?
And your followup about the "kick" is a joke. Sorry for dignifying this with a response, everybody, but it's just so bogus (and I've seen it mentioned so many times this week) that I have to ridicule it now that I've seen the incident.
From the first angle it almost looks like Roy kicked Adams. In the second angle, the "tape" stops short of that part, allowing us to properly infer that Roy did not kick Adams since Sparty stopped the video before that was clear.
Sparty did the same with the punch, cutting out the video prior to the punch and naming it "U-M's Taylor Lewan pins MSU's William Gholston's head to ground - no penalty 2011! l33t!!!!!!"
This guy is obsessed with proving Michigan is "dirty," even dragging out old Michigan plays as "clothesline" (Woodley vs D.Clark, perfectly legal hit).
Methinks the Sparty doth protest too much.
to infer from this video that an ordinary facemask, which happens all the time in the full speed of the game, is the equal to a player jumping into a pile and ripping on a facemask after the play is dead?
I agree with a previous poster--Dantonio will try to stretch this out as long as possible, appeal if necessary, until about the Minnesota game. He's all for suspending a player, just not if they REALLY need him next week.
that Dave Brandon is in contact with the Big 10 over these incidents, pushing for punishment.
While Hoke and the team have put that game behind them, Dave Brandon needs to see this through.
The fact that national sports news outlets are calling for his suspension for both incidents means that the Big 10 cannot ignore this. Rittenberg continues to contact B1G offices asking about it. I imagine SI is on top of it as well.
I will be satisfied with a 1 game suspension against Wisconsin. Sparties are already freaking out and crying about it and that is satisfying enough.
Pete Rossman's Oct 16 story (the Only Colors) is pretty critical of Gholston's PFs and the other PFs. I was impressed by Rossman's serious concern about dirty plays.
It is not possible that Ghowlston was upset that he was called "Tom" and he took it as a racial slur in that it was a reference to "Uncle Tom."
Because that would require an MSU student to actually know, you know, a historical reference from two centuries ago.
Dude you’re reaching get over it, WE LOST. Coach said it best, we were out physicaled, out played, and out coached; and we did squat about it on the field. We can cry about it for another year until we play State again, or we can get over it and move on. Now I hope to GOD that they are dealing with this internally. I hope that this “turn the other cheek” bit that they are handing the media is just a smoke screen. Today we are all losers. Now we can be losers for another year until we play State again, or we can put this loss down and move on.
Please stop crying about how dirty MSU was on Saturday. I so at least 4 linemen standing over the pile watching our starting QB get his Neck twisted every witch way, THEY DID NOTHING! So leave it alone PLEASE!!!
We are who we are, a group of nice guys. Let’s hope Hoke can change that sooner rather than later. MichiganWILL be back!
Or, you could congratulate our players (instead of implying they are gutless or weak) for showing restraint. Lewan could have pounded Gholston after the punch, but he restrained.
I don't take anything Hoke or Denard says here at face value. They are saying the right things in public to look good. Anyone who watches that video can see the intent and the malice that was used. Even my wife, who knows nothing about football said Gholston's play was inexcusable.
Sparty being Sparty and the loss are apples and oranges. If this were Michigan players and coaches behaving this way, Michigan alumni and donors would be demanding suspensions, maybe even expulsions. This is not an off-hours street fight, this is sports, for goodness' sake. Yes, football is violent, but there is no place for headhunting with the intent to cause real harm to an opponent. That's why there are rules to enforce sportsmanship.
Although I think Dantonio possesses only situational ethics and should never have reinstated Glenn Winston, Saturday's dirty play was worse because it happened on the field and it's up to the coach to deal with it seriously. You can allow convicts to play on your team, but you can't allow players to commit violence on the field with impunity. The coach has much more control over his players' behavior on the field than off it.
On the part of the schools and the conference, there is a responsibility to punish this type of behavior so that violators can't do it again to another team. It's not about changing the outcome of this game. If Denard or Lewan had been seriously injured, Gholston could be prosecuted. That's why this is a serious issue and has to be nipped in the bud.
What racial slur did Denard utter that caused him to try to snap his neck while two other spartans had him pinned to the ground?
Denard will be suspended for hurting Gholston's wrist with his face mask.
Serious question. Why is the helmet twist not getting any press? That is FAR worse than the punch. Is it b/c of the convenience of Lewan being white and MSU can fabricate an excuse? Someone has to step in here.
Seems like the B1G or NCAA would have some standard guidelines for things like this given past cases. With Mouton for example, we have precedent that a punch is an automatic 1 game suspension. It should just go without saying.
helmet twist, etc should have known penalties associated with it based on precedent. I don't understand why this has to be dragged out so much.
When was the last time you saw a 120-degree twist of the face mask on a player pinned at the bottom of a pile?
I doubt it's that rare. We just don't pay as much attention to the other 119 football programs.
Well I haven't, but what I'm saying is there has to be other cases where players have aggresively twisted a players head with intent to injure. Start there, then ratchet up the penalty for severity. That becomes the new precedent for future cases.
I guess what I'm wishing for is consistency which I generally don't see from the B1G or NCAA (case in point Manny Harris' suspension for elbowing Kramer a couple of years ago versus other similar cases that received no suspension).
The University has 3 days to submit their report, and the Big 10 has 3 days after that to rule their findings. Its very possible the suspension may not come until early next week, which would be better. Face it, they are not beating Wisconsin. Losing Tom Gholson for the Nebraska game would hurt much worse.
I tottally agree with you and I've kind of been hoping for that scenario. It's just so crappy the way the big ten works on issues like this. I can't think if a bigger story last weekend in the conference.
It says it all when MSU fans say being classless is a requisite to being on a football field. Little Brother was coined by Mike Hart. It sticks because you act like children. We complain? Don't worry MSU, even Michigan will defer to you in that department. The whole Big Ten does.
...is that the Hollis press release says MSU has been notified of "a possible sportslike conduct violation," implying there's only one.
You didn't move your face mask fast enough. That one is on you.
Let's say Lewan DID say something offensive and the punch was somehow justified (in pyscho Tom Gholson's mind only, of course). How does TG then justify ripping the facemask of Denard? Did Denard also slander Tom......while on the bottom of a pile....with 3 or 4 guys already ontop of him? I think not.
I'm just appalled and ashamed at Dantonio's words. Reaction? What a horrible, Tressel-like role model for all the student-athletes who pass through. Let's take winning and losing out of the equation for a minute. If William Gholston was your kid, and someone called him a name at school (a big If), and he ended up punching the kid, what would you do? What would you expect the school to do? He gets suspended. No tolerance for that kind of response. As a parent, I would teach him that no matter what the other kid calls you, you don't respond with a punch. Ever.
Really surprised at his lack of character on this one. With the Big Ten world watching, he had a chance to take the high road. Not that tough to do. But he took the weak man's way out. Blame it on the other guy.
Are we really surprised that they guy who had Glenn Winston back on the practice field / team the day Winston was released from jail (for a serious assault on another student) took the weak man's way out?
I am always surprised when a person in authority publicly chooses the weasel's way out. Call it a weird personailty tic, but I am always surprised.
"I wouldn't characterize it as dirty play, I would characterize it as reaction."
Is this quote from Dantonio? Because it almost sounds like it is Mork Dan7onio.
That is simply par for the Dantonio course. He is one of those guys that we all know who looks worse and worse (dumber and dumber) each time he opens his mouth. In the practice of law, we work hard to keep those clients' mouths closed and keep them off the stand. No good can come from them opening their mouths.
You've jumped to a conclusion, I think. The review isn't necessarily limited to one play. Hollis's quote was in response to a question about one specific play. He wasn't speaking broadly. He was just addressing that one incident.
but it seems like it might have been so this time I really am going to jump to a conclusion.
What I quoted from Hollis wasn't in response to any question at all--it's from an MSU press release, describing the notice they've received from the B1G.
The proof is right on the video tape. If he was or wasn't called a derogatory name is not really relevant considering it can't be proven, and even if he was called a name, that doesn't excuse a punch to the face. MSU shows why they will always get no respect and they will always be little brother in our eyes. Their conduct is bush league at best, and the sad thing is that the penalties were completely pointless. They were dominating us and without the penalties could have beat us by more. For their coaches to condone that type of behavior just shows how classless that whole university is. Nuff Said.
make a remix of the personal fouls to music yet? Like Trick Daddy's "I'm a thug" or even "Thuggish Ruggish Bone"? Would be rather amusing.
We're not against tough football.
We're not against tough football players.
We're against those thugs.
A comprehensive investigation of this matter is warranted, and we Michigan fans need to recognize the complexity of this situation. High-definition video of a player intentionally jerking another player's facemask after the whistle sounds can be incredibly misleading. We must avoid a rush to accuracy and accountability. Indeed, if you watch the video closely, you'll notice Denard's head moved back and to the left, not down and to the right. This conclusively establishes that Taylor Lewan called Gholston "Tom" from the grassy knoll. That's one magic loogie, Jerry.
"The lack of composure is frustrating, but we're not coaching that."
Un. Effing. Believable.
"MSU issues a statement from AD Mark Hollis saying it has been notified of a "possible sportslike conduct violation."'
Thanks again for the laugh. Have fun against the Reds and Whites, shorthanded or not.
I am very happy to root for Michigan, and look forward to all curbstomps you'll get. From any team.
Thanks @mattcharboneau for the quotes. I wonder how anyone can take Dantonio or Hollis seriously..
“Obviously it was a very emotional game, but nothing will diminish the fact of how we played on Saturday in this big win for Michigan State,” Dantonio said.
“We are thoroughly reviewing the entire game and utilizing all of the available resources: coaches’ video from midfield and end zone cameras, TV copy as well as still photographs,” Hollis said in the statement. “Once the internal review is completed, we will forward a written report on to the Big Ten. The conference office won’t discuss a timeline for this process and neither will we.”
Gotta love sparty. Or not.
I just want to hop in here and point out the incorrect usage of 'utilize'. Thank you and goodnight.
This is precisely why they will never be an elite national program. What a knob this guy is - neither he nor Hollis can see the big picture. At this point, it's comical to watch a program argue with definitive video evidence that every msm outlet has already seen and commented on.
This is so not worth our time anymore. Let's all move on, shall we?
I am going to guess Dantonio would classify it as dirty if some from Wisconsin punches Cousins in the throat on the first play and puts him out of the game.
Is played out. Let's move on
...and over and around and through the Spartans.
College Football Live alert.
William Gholston coverage. (Nevermind, don't watch it)
Matt Milen is loving the nature that Gholston plays with. Somebody make sure Section 1 doesn't see this, he might die.
Matt Milen is an idiot. He's not only givivng Gholston credit for doing that but encouraging others to do it too. In 10years we're gonna see college football becoming a deadly sport.
The arm bar Ghoulston performed on Lewan early in the game which resulted in injury was clearly an attempt to injure! There are 3 blatant, indefensible acts of thuggery by one player in one game. Is this not unprecedented? If im the MSU school president, this goon is no longer representing my university in any capacity.
Can we make 'thuggery' the word of 2011?
However, the Big 10 will. The precedent is established.
Dantonio will issue a statement something like........
"Zero percent doesn't apply to players that are a product of the Detroi PSL. Any disgressionary acts by these players can be attributed to the social disadvantages these players experienced and are therefore excusable. This team is a family to them and I am their father figure. I can't take that away."
The minldess minions will eat it up and Dantonio can continue to save face with their primary in state recruiting focus.
Time to put more pressure on the Big Ten.
There was a third Gholston incident that did not get called, and another assault on Denard - If you watch early in the 4th quarter maybe about 11-12 minutes left? Gholston sacks Denard. After Denard is clearly down for a few seconds, he pulls on the back of Denards pads, pulling Denard onto his neck and roll his hips over Denard - purposely trying to again hurt Denards neck. Check the video yourself to see.
Hang on. I have to get through all the clips of.him helping Denard up after a play because the o line failed him all day.
It's Wednesday. Lets move on.