"I take sportsmanship seriously, but..."
"I take sportsmanship seriously, but..."
"I take sportsmanship seriously except when I don't."
I think that Dantonio will come out and say that that sort of behavior will not be tolerated, and the media will believe him. He will then talk in some circles and discuss how punishments have been doled out, Gholston has had to do stadium stair runs in the morning, etc.
Finally, NO QUESTIONS.
The statement of Hollis seems to be aimed at the "punch". For how can one look at the totality of the play is we're looking at the Denard helmet twist.
How much do we bet that the Helmet twist, which is quite frankly the far worse play is going to be overlooked. The focus will be on the punch and only the punch.
I hope I'm wrong.
...because the B1G will not. There's some chance if MSU gave him a one-game suspension and cited both events, it might stand. If they announce a suspension and don't mention the more egregious offense, the B1G will pile on.
My guess is they suspend him for the first half and say something about his actions not being acceptable but that he was provoked by a "racial slur".
I wonder what they will claim Denard called Gholston to merit the pile-on-facemask-twist?
Denard probably accused him of bobbing for apples in toilets.
1) That was not a kick. You can clearly see Roundtree is hobbling on an ankle and there is obviously no force behind his foot when it comes in contact with Sparty's facemask.
2) That should probably have been an illegal hands to the face or facemasking penalty, but there is a big difference between blocking someone legally and having your hands slide up as you block (happens a lot), and flying into a pile, kneeing the defenseless quarterback in the ribs and twisting his facemask. Sparty here was not defenseless, he was just getting pwned from the start.
That's not even close to a close comparison. For the sake of fairness though, let's compare:
Roundtree v. Adams
RR and Adams are engaged in a scuffle after the play. Adams is pushing RR, RR is pushing Adams. RR grabs Adams' facemask, Adams loses his balance and falls over, tripping RR in the process. I've seen plays like this many times. Typically, if a flag is thrown, both players involved are flagged.
Gholston v. Robinson
Robinson has been tackled and is at the bottom of a pile, unable to move himself. Gholston runs in, well after the play is over, dives into Robinson knee-first, grabs his facemask and proceeds to try to break his neck. I've never seen something like this happen before. Have you?
Gholston v. Lewan (Round 1)
Lewan is handling Gholston quite easily, blocking him down the field. As the play ends, Gholston jabs Lewan in the forearm with an arm bar, then pulls Lewan to the ground, rolling over his arm. Lewan is injured from the play. I've never seen a play quite like this. Have you?
Gholston v. Lewan (Round 2)
Lewan is handling Gholston quite easily. Lewan blocks Gholston into the ground and holds him there, Gholston gets up and punches Lewan in the throat. I've seen something similar to this happen a few times, most of the time, the guy throwing the punch gets ejected and (in the NFL) fined.
I feel like the arm bar was worse than all the plays. This looked like a WWF move more than any other from the day.
of the arm bar?
I don't doubt that it happend, I'd just like to see it.
And we're the whiney ones. Alright.
Replace Denard with Kirk Cousins, Tom Gholson with Craig Roh, and then wallow in the hypocrisy...
This board is starting to feel like RCMB. Isn't it time to kill this account (MasonB)?
You wouldn't be disheartened if you saw an opposing player try to paralyze your Heisman candidate at quarterback?
A Heisman candidate playing quarterback at MSU? I must have missed something.
Ridiculous comparison. For one thing, this example isn't anywhere near as bad as yanking someone's next or giving an arm-bar. Not even close. The example you site happens about 20 times a game. It's a penalty, maybe. But that's it.
For another thing, the league reviews all penalties and/or questionable plays. Teams always submit to the league any plays they find objectionable. Had the play you mention crossed the line, the player would have been suspended. The league has actually been pretty straightforward of late. Punches or behavior intended to cause serious harm are met with suspensions.
Well it's A) DURING the play, B) They're grappling each other & one player isn't defenseless, C) Roundtree obviously has some jersey there, and as they were battling each other his hand moved up.
He did not kick him, you douche, he was regaining his balance. Good try though. This is the exact same as Tom Gholston jumping into a pile late & then twisting a defenseless player's face mask. You're dumb. ;)
This is the lamest thing in the world. This happens like every play. I'm sorry for whoever spent the time to find this and put it in slomo on youtube. Really sad, and typical of MSU. Please make something else up to be outraged about. Its entertaining.
P.S., Tom Gholson did THREE things in that game, any of which taken alone would be enough to suspend him for at least a game. Your douche of a coach didn't even take him out of the game in which it occurred. Keep fishing, though...
Maybe this is being overlooked because Adams is wrapped up with Roundtree and it's far from clear-cut who is responsible for the impetus/momentum that takes Adams to the ground. Maybe it's just because Spartans are terrible at the internet. Do you have any video of this that wasn't shot using the Zapruder family's personal recording equipment pointed at a TV?
And your followup about the "kick" is a joke. Sorry for dignifying this with a response, everybody, but it's just so bogus (and I've seen it mentioned so many times this week) that I have to ridicule it now that I've seen the incident.
From the first angle it almost looks like Roy kicked Adams. In the second angle, the "tape" stops short of that part, allowing us to properly infer that Roy did not kick Adams since Sparty stopped the video before that was clear.
Sparty did the same with the punch, cutting out the video prior to the punch and naming it "U-M's Taylor Lewan pins MSU's William Gholston's head to ground - no penalty 2011! l33t!!!!!!"
This guy is obsessed with proving Michigan is "dirty," even dragging out old Michigan plays as "clothesline" (Woodley vs D.Clark, perfectly legal hit).
Methinks the Sparty doth protest too much.
to infer from this video that an ordinary facemask, which happens all the time in the full speed of the game, is the equal to a player jumping into a pile and ripping on a facemask after the play is dead?
I agree with a previous poster--Dantonio will try to stretch this out as long as possible, appeal if necessary, until about the Minnesota game. He's all for suspending a player, just not if they REALLY need him next week.
that Dave Brandon is in contact with the Big 10 over these incidents, pushing for punishment.
While Hoke and the team have put that game behind them, Dave Brandon needs to see this through.
The fact that national sports news outlets are calling for his suspension for both incidents means that the Big 10 cannot ignore this. Rittenberg continues to contact B1G offices asking about it. I imagine SI is on top of it as well.
I will be satisfied with a 1 game suspension against Wisconsin. Sparties are already freaking out and crying about it and that is satisfying enough.
Pete Rossman's Oct 16 story (the Only Colors) is pretty critical of Gholston's PFs and the other PFs. I was impressed by Rossman's serious concern about dirty plays.
It is not possible that Ghowlston was upset that he was called "Tom" and he took it as a racial slur in that it was a reference to "Uncle Tom."
Because that would require an MSU student to actually know, you know, a historical reference from two centuries ago.
Dantonio on Big Ten call: "I wouldn't characterize it as dirty play, I would characterize it as reaction"
Dude you’re reaching get over it, WE LOST. Coach said it best, we were out physicaled, out played, and out coached; and we did squat about it on the field. We can cry about it for another year until we play State again, or we can get over it and move on. Now I hope to GOD that they are dealing with this internally. I hope that this “turn the other cheek” bit that they are handing the media is just a smoke screen. Today we are all losers. Now we can be losers for another year until we play State again, or we can put this loss down and move on.
Please stop crying about how dirty MSU was on Saturday. I so at least 4 linemen standing over the pile watching our starting QB get his Neck twisted every witch way, THEY DID NOTHING! So leave it alone PLEASE!!!
We are who we are, a group of nice guys. Let’s hope Hoke can change that sooner rather than later. MichiganWILL be back!
Or, you could congratulate our players (instead of implying they are gutless or weak) for showing restraint. Lewan could have pounded Gholston after the punch, but he restrained.
I don't take anything Hoke or Denard says here at face value. They are saying the right things in public to look good. Anyone who watches that video can see the intent and the malice that was used. Even my wife, who knows nothing about football said Gholston's play was inexcusable.
Sparty being Sparty and the loss are apples and oranges. If this were Michigan players and coaches behaving this way, Michigan alumni and donors would be demanding suspensions, maybe even expulsions. This is not an off-hours street fight, this is sports, for goodness' sake. Yes, football is violent, but there is no place for headhunting with the intent to cause real harm to an opponent. That's why there are rules to enforce sportsmanship.
Although I think Dantonio possesses only situational ethics and should never have reinstated Glenn Winston, Saturday's dirty play was worse because it happened on the field and it's up to the coach to deal with it seriously. You can allow convicts to play on your team, but you can't allow players to commit violence on the field with impunity. The coach has much more control over his players' behavior on the field than off it.
On the part of the schools and the conference, there is a responsibility to punish this type of behavior so that violators can't do it again to another team. It's not about changing the outcome of this game. If Denard or Lewan had been seriously injured, Gholston could be prosecuted. That's why this is a serious issue and has to be nipped in the bud.
What racial slur did Denard utter that caused him to try to snap his neck while two other spartans had him pinned to the ground?
Denard will be suspended for hurting Gholston's wrist with his face mask.
Serious question. Why is the helmet twist not getting any press? That is FAR worse than the punch. Is it b/c of the convenience of Lewan being white and MSU can fabricate an excuse? Someone has to step in here.
Seems like the B1G or NCAA would have some standard guidelines for things like this given past cases. With Mouton for example, we have precedent that a punch is an automatic 1 game suspension. It should just go without saying.
helmet twist, etc should have known penalties associated with it based on precedent. I don't understand why this has to be dragged out so much.
When was the last time you saw a 120-degree twist of the face mask on a player pinned at the bottom of a pile?
I doubt it's that rare. We just don't pay as much attention to the other 119 football programs.
Well I haven't, but what I'm saying is there has to be other cases where players have aggresively twisted a players head with intent to injure. Start there, then ratchet up the penalty for severity. That becomes the new precedent for future cases.
I guess what I'm wishing for is consistency which I generally don't see from the B1G or NCAA (case in point Manny Harris' suspension for elbowing Kramer a couple of years ago versus other similar cases that received no suspension).
The University has 3 days to submit their report, and the Big 10 has 3 days after that to rule their findings. Its very possible the suspension may not come until early next week, which would be better. Face it, they are not beating Wisconsin. Losing Tom Gholson for the Nebraska game would hurt much worse.
I tottally agree with you and I've kind of been hoping for that scenario. It's just so crappy the way the big ten works on issues like this. I can't think if a bigger story last weekend in the conference.
It says it all when MSU fans say being classless is a requisite to being on a football field. Little Brother was coined by Mike Hart. It sticks because you act like children. We complain? Don't worry MSU, even Michigan will defer to you in that department. The whole Big Ten does.
...is that the Hollis press release says MSU has been notified of "a possible sportslike conduct violation," implying there's only one.
You didn't move your face mask fast enough. That one is on you.
Let's say Lewan DID say something offensive and the punch was somehow justified (in pyscho Tom Gholson's mind only, of course). How does TG then justify ripping the facemask of Denard? Did Denard also slander Tom......while on the bottom of a pile....with 3 or 4 guys already ontop of him? I think not.
I'm just appalled and ashamed at Dantonio's words. Reaction? What a horrible, Tressel-like role model for all the student-athletes who pass through. Let's take winning and losing out of the equation for a minute. If William Gholston was your kid, and someone called him a name at school (a big If), and he ended up punching the kid, what would you do? What would you expect the school to do? He gets suspended. No tolerance for that kind of response. As a parent, I would teach him that no matter what the other kid calls you, you don't respond with a punch. Ever.
Really surprised at his lack of character on this one. With the Big Ten world watching, he had a chance to take the high road. Not that tough to do. But he took the weak man's way out. Blame it on the other guy.
Are we really surprised that they guy who had Glenn Winston back on the practice field / team the day Winston was released from jail (for a serious assault on another student) took the weak man's way out?