generational gap and RR
So, I begin by saying I like RR. I like his attitude, I like his honesty. I even think the game plan will work given time. So here is the question...
My father-in-law is a classic Michigan man. Graduated here 30 years ago, successful, upper middle class engineer. Football season tickets every year. Also, name the UM sport and he supports it (maybe not women's stuff, but you know). He and his wife DO NOT like RR. They don't like his style, don't like the attitude he is trying to bring to UM. They hate the loud music in the stands, etc. They even think RR is a somewhat underhanded with the way he treated some players (no evidence - just hunches). I asked him if winning will do it, he said absolutely not.
I think he is representative of the older generation and many of them feel this way...
What will RR have to do? Or will all be pissed until he is canned. Even if we win BIG.
What do you think?
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:27 PM ^
Winning will cure all. That's all there is to it.
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:30 PM ^
How many people did you hear bitching about the attitude RR was bringing to UM after we were 4-0? Winning has a way of changing perceptions.
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:59 PM ^
I wasn't bitching at RR, but I did not think we looked good through the first four games last year. I don't have anything against RR the person, as I do not know him, but we do need to execute and show composure from the top on down next year.
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:37 AM ^
It's funny when you have a predominantly underclassman team and people complain about lack of composure. I'm sure when you left high school early to go play in front of 100,000+ people and were nationally televised that you were the definition of composure... Oh wait, you have no idea what that's like. They will be more composed next year but it will have more to do with being a year older and having gained valuable playing experience, not RR magically making them composed.
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:32 PM ^
Winning will win over enough so that all "classic Michigan men" like this will have to do is stew in their own bile.
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:39 PM ^
since there is no way to PM, just wanted to say that your newest blog post was really great to read. That is all
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:59 AM ^
TOB your newest blog post was great... i had a little nose sweat build up watching that...
January 23rd, 2010 at 6:19 AM ^
Understanding our football program and university means more than just winning. Respecting "traditional" or long established alumni is important. How can you sit there and insult fans who've proven themselves with 30 years of support? Winning is probably always THE single most important quality to most programs, but we aren't most programs. We are Michigan. Hopefully RR suceeds so the University isn't embarassed, but the man took the job out of ambition and opportunity. I dont know him, but I can tell through videos that his mentality is not one to embrace the community and culture of Ann Arbor. I mean the guy also has a history of ditching is hometown. That says a lot about character....
January 23rd, 2010 at 7:16 AM ^
So, since Fielding Yost, Fritz Crisler, and Bo Schembechler did not grow up in Ann Arbor, or even the state of Michigan, they were by your definition men of questionable character.
And what the hell do you mean, "the man took the job out of ambition and opportunity?" Are you saying that coaches are not supposed to have ambition? And how in the flying fuck is a coach supposed to take a new position if there is no "opportunity?"
Going by your logic, only men who grew up in Ann Arbor and never left, who have no ambition and avoid "opportunities" are of sufficient character to merit being Michigan's coach. Good luck finding a qualified coach from that pool of candidates.
And I'm really curious about "I can tell through videos that his mentality is not one to embrace the community and culture of Ann Arbor." Just exactly what have you seen in what video that tells you RR does not "embrace the community and culture" of Ann Arbor? Please be specific. Is he advocating that the Art Fair be discontinued? Is he part of a movement to boot Borders from Liberty St so he can put in a casino? Does he want to expel people who were born here who never left? Is he trying to prevent his players from attending class? If you can't point to something specific that is factual, you're talking out your ass.
I get that you're disappointed with his coaching record so far. So am I. If he can't turn things around on the field within the next two seasons I believe he should be let go. However, you're representative of so many of RR's critics—you can't simply judge him by results on the field. You have to invent ludicrous standards of behavior that are based on nothing but your own bitterness and bile and disappointment instead.
January 23rd, 2010 at 7:54 AM ^
I base it on what ive seen on game day. The way I see him interact with his players and his coaches. He was on freaking television looking flustered and angry during multiple games this year. As a coach I understand intensity but when I saw how he reacted at certain points, it looked like a person who didn't know how to handle a situation when a play didn't go as planned. I agree I cant judge if I haven't met the guy and seen how he is face to face. But please dont ever compare Fielding Yost, Fritz Crisler, and Bo Schembechler to RR. At least not yet. And yes I do think he has less character because he left his team hanging before a bowl game. That is a shit move no matter how you look at it. He had an entire state backing him and counting on him to win, and he left. That is not a character move and its insulting you even remotely compare him to past coaches at MI.
And what I mean by ambition and opportunity is that the guy has zero reason to consider the Michigan job aside from a step up to a top tier program. Yes I think its important to have ties to the University if you are considering this job. And its a huge character flaw to leave WVU the way he did. I live in WV at the moment and literally left an entire state down. A state which he is from. I never said you shouldn't have ambition in taking a job because that is always there when moving to a better program in college football. What I meant is that it could have been ND, UF, Texas, USC, or even Ohio State and I guarantee you it would not make a difference to RR. Yes you are right I am skeptical, but why shouldn't I be? I think him being successful will help change my opinion but he has a long way to go before I can say he is a good fit. I hope he proves me wrong because trust me I will be the first to admit my mistake in doubting him. To specify I think a person who is the RIGHT fit can learn to become a Michigan Man. I just don't see it with RR and think he is the wrong fit for us. I'll continue to judge him for more than just results on the field because that comes with job title of Head Coach at Michigan.
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:36 AM ^
You are saying things with out even having or looking at all available evidence.
Bo Schembechler left his alma mater where he played football to take a step up. Sure he didn't leave Miami of Ohio before a BCS bowl game, but Bo never got Miami of Ohio to a bowl game - so you don't know if he wouldn't have. I bet he would have.
What was Rodriquez suppose to do? Turn down a great job offer and stay in a bad situation with an AD that he didn't get along with, simply because Michigan wanted to move quickly and end the embarrassment of what was our coaching search?
Bo also thought about leaving us for Texas A&M...another step up in pay. It wasn't until UofM increased his pay and Illitch gave him his own Pizza franchise in Columbus Ohio so that Bo would stay.
Crisler had 3 Head coaching gigs. His first head coaching gig was at Minnesota, then left for more money to Princeton, then left for more money to Michigan.
Yost had 5 head coaching gigs. His first head coaching gig was at Ohio Wesleyen, then left for more money to Nebraska, then left for more money to Kansas, then left for more money to Stanford, and then left for more money to Michigan.
Yost's first 4 coaching gigs were all 1 year stints....he left instantly for more money after successful first seasons....all on his way for bigger pay days until he reached UofM with a deeper wallet. Get your facts!
P.S. Heck Yost even flip flopped as a player. He switched from WVU to Lafayette when WVU lost to them 3 straight times and then flip flopped back to WVU.
The greatest men tend to have ambition, because they are not content.
Stop hating Rodriquez for doing the same things that you praise in other men.
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:48 AM ^
Rodriguez Rodriguez Rodriguez
Sorry, should have filed this one in the "OT- pet peeves" thread.
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:05 AM ^
That was great stuff, but I would be remiss if I didn't point out your fatal flaw. It was Monaghan not Illitch who kicked in the Domino's franchises.
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:10 AM ^
Thank you. You are correct, I made a mistake with the name, but I believe, we both agree that the point still stands.
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:58 AM ^
"Did any of those past coaches quit before a bcs bowl game?"
Are you serious? So if leaving to take a better job before a bowl game is so awful, what the heck does that say about M. Coleman and B Martin offering the job to coaches and having them take it before their bowl games? If RR lacks character for accepting the job and leaving WVU before their bowl game, then Coleman, Martin and any other UM rep who played a role in RR's hiring are equally lacking character. I guess UM is now a shit school for wanting to (and subsequently hiring) a coach before bowl games were played.
"The way I see him interact with his players and his coaches. He was on freaking television looking flustered and angry during multiple games this year."
Again, are you serious? I guess you're not old enough (or suffer from dimentia) to know about Bo's actions (or should I say antics?) on the sidelines. No, Bo was never angry, frustrated and he certainly never yelled at his players.
"Yes I think its important to have ties to the University if you are considering this job."
This is too easy. Please list for me all of Bo's ties to UM before taking the UM job.
"What I meant is that it could have been ND, UF, Texas, USC, or even Ohio State and I guarantee you it would not make a difference to RR."
So you're saying Bo while at Miami would have only looked to taking the UM job and not a job anywhere else?
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:50 AM ^
Great points. Let us not forget that Bo had more ties to Ohio State than Michigan when he took the UofM job.
Bo's OSU ties when he took the UofM job:
1) born and raised in Ohio
2) earned his master's degree from Ohio State University
3) spent about 7 seasons as an assistant coach at OSU
4) played for, earned a BA degree at, and head coached Miami of Ohio in the same state. Keep in mind he was playing for Woody Hayes while at Miami of Ohio.
Bo's UofM ties when he took the UofM job:
1).............
January 23rd, 2010 at 11:05 AM ^
it is always wise to leave your FB coaching vacancy open umtil until after January bowl games and less than a month before NSD. This will surely help insure that most of your recruiting class goes elsewhere. Or should you just always hire a coach that hasn't been able to get his team to a bowl game.
Finally, I remember Bo removing a certain Bball coach for accepting another job (for the next season) right before the big dance. That worked out pretty good, but how is forcing a coach to leave instead of the coach leaving on his own any different? I would assume then that you are questioning Bo's ethics.
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:27 AM ^
an opinion that I completely disagree with (except the part that says Head Coach at Michigan has to be more than results on the field, that is true IMO). But I didn't neg him, and disagree with all the negs to AKG and his views. He presented them in a rational manner, was not being a dick, and obviously loves Michigan. I don't think posts like his deserve the neg treatment in the same way that fools like Doc Sherwin get. The proper approach IMO is what Don and wildback did--thoroughly checkmate the views AKG expressed.. Just my 2 cents.
January 23rd, 2010 at 10:54 AM ^
You are absolutely right, and I did the same thing
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:33 AM ^
we can insult the "traditional" fans because we are the ones who support the program now. who cares if they supported the program for the last 30 years The ONLY thing that is important is supporting the current program, hands down. How is being faithful to players and coaches who really have nothing to do with the program (not saying they aren't michigan men, just that they aren't integral to the team succeeding) beneficial to the current team? It isn't. If you are against the current situation then in my eyes you are against Michigan.
January 23rd, 2010 at 8:52 AM ^
How can you say that? I even stated that being supportive of the current situation is one thing, but having an opinion on whether its the BEST situation is another. Just because I dont agree with the direction the program took does not mean I am not a diehard fan. In the end we all want the same thing and that is to see M succeed. The situation isn't changing any time soon (we will see after this season) so my comments didn't need to be publicized and I apologize for that. Here's to a great season under RR!! I dont by any means hope for him to fail and get out. I hope he proves me wrong and we win an NC in the near future.
January 23rd, 2010 at 9:51 AM ^
Nothing is the BEST possible situation, we all take what we can get. A decision was made to overhaul a traditional football powerhouse to be competitive with the Floridas of the world and win games. Undermining the current system and questioning Rodriguez' motives and ties and character "from videos" you are, by definition, not a die hard fan. You don't care about winning or the potential for winning, you care about who's yelling at who on the sidelines.
We don't both want the same thing. I want to see Rodriguez get afforded the tools and time he needs to succeed at U-M, you want to see Michigan succeed with Les Miles, or Jim Harbaugh, or Brady Hoke...as long as he's a "Michigan Man."
Whatever that means these days.
January 23rd, 2010 at 12:59 PM ^
C'mon...a long time alum and fan makes a fair criticism of the current state of affairs and he gets ripped? Then, you make another stupid comment - "A decision was made to overhaul a traditional football powerhouse to be competitive with the Floridas of the world..."
Did you forget that we BEAT Florida in the final game before RR took over? Can't be more competitive then winning.
You both want to see Michigan succeed...you just differ on whether RR is the guy who can do it. Don't be an asshole.
January 24th, 2010 at 3:04 PM ^
We beat Florida with a stacked, healthy team of seniors that were gone when RR took over. We beat them with an unexpectedly high octane offense that worked because Meyer was scouting a team that failed to put up a TD on Ohio State. Limited returns with a system like that.
That same team also lost to App. State and the Citrus only put Michigan 1-7 in OSU/Bowl competition over the previous 4 years. In need of an overhaul? Arguable, but yes.
Let's try and remember things next time.
January 24th, 2010 at 7:22 PM ^
Scotty-
You're the geometric center of the asshole.
An alum doesn't love RR so you say he "doesn't want to win". Huh? You then say we need to be competitive with UF...a team we beat. That's the definition of competitive. Your logic is beyond faulty.
Now, you say we won only because our team was "healthy" and "stacked"???? So what the fuck does "health" have to do with the system that supposedly wasn't competitive? I don't mind the shift to a new style. I mind small-minded clowns being rude to folks merely because they have a different opinion about a new coach who has yet to prove himself.
January 24th, 2010 at 8:14 PM ^
RR is the coach. Quit yer bitchin' and get over it already.
January 24th, 2010 at 9:04 PM ^
Yeah, that makes sense. Folks probably should have laid off Matt Millen as well.
Look, I don't love RR...but I was actually in his corner until late in the season. I hope he turns it around. I'd love to be wrong about him. I'm more bothered by the holier-than-thou attitude of some posters here who attack other alums merely for thinking that RR isn't Jesus.
January 24th, 2010 at 10:55 PM ^
Your logic seems to be calling people assholes for simply having an opinion different than yours.
You told Scottcha that he was an asshole and that his argument was "stupid" because he disagreed with a poster who shared your opinion of RR.
Then you called him an asshole again because you are on the opposite side of the RR argument.
Then you claim to hate those holier-than-thou posters who make attacks?
The lack of self awareness is truly astonishing.
Btw- It's funny, in this same thread you got irate when someone dared to compare Michigan football with the Lions, and now you're mentioning RR and Matt Millen in the same breath.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:05 AM ^
Yes, I called Scotty an asshole...because I don't think it's right to tell other alums that they "aren't fans" or "want us to lose" merely for stating that they don't love RR. I didn't call him an asshole for "having a different opinion". You've got it backward. Completely backward. 100%. My point is that the attacking of those who would criticize RR is out of control. Preach to that crowd; not me.
As to Millen...again you miss the point. A RR supporter (maybe it was Scotty...not sure) compared UofM to the Lions without realizing how bad that is. Then we're told we have to support the leader no matter what. Well...how'd that turn out with the Lions that we're now compared to? Anyway...tired of the argument. We all love Michigan football. Some of us believe we can still look at our team with a critical eye; others want us to cover our eyes.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:05 PM ^
You seem to believe one must always look at the program with a critical eye, and if you're not doing that then you are doing the program a disservice.
Scott believes that if you're "undermining the current system" and questioning Rodriguez's motives/character without any real hard evidence to back it up, then you are not a die hard fan.
You calling Scott an asshole is a level 5 "pot, meet kettle" experience.
I mean, you called him, "the geometric center of the asshole" and asked him if he was held as a child. (!!!!!!!!)
He never said to AKG, you "aren't a fan," as you put in quotes (not sure where you pulled that from). He said he was not a "die hard fan," which I take to mean that Scott believes there are different levels of fandom.
So by extension, a lot of the non "die hard fans" are the ones who dislike RR, whereas the "die hard fans" are the ones who have chosen to be "all in" for Michigan. Therein lies the distinction.
He also never resorted to calling you a name, which I like goes a long way in validating his argument.
I mean you 100% fell into the "ZOMGZ DICK RODZ!!!!!" category of the Michigan fan base by calling Scott an asshole and flipping out about "ZOMGZ LIONZ-MICHIGANZ COMPARISONZ!!!!" as well as stating that some of us "cover our eyes" when looking at our at our team. It seems by this, covering of our eyes, you are insinuating that those who are incapable of looking at the program with a critical eye due to their maize-n-blue colored glasses are not on the same level of fandom as those fans who are able to view the program critically.
So therefore, you too believe that there are differing levels of fandom; those who are able to take a step back, casting aside all bias, viewing the team from the perspective of an outside observer, and those who are "homers" that will love and support whatever action the team makes, passing the buck when they are losing or in error.
Hey, looking back, it seems like you and Scottcha are fairly alike. You just have different opinions with regards to the football team's head coach. Except you like calling people "the geometric center of the asshole" and stuff.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:11 PM ^
BTW-Here is a perfect example of why I am almost completely unable to understand your logic.....
You said, "I didn't call him an asshole for "having a different opinion". You've got it backward. Completely backward. 100%. My point is that the attacking of those who would criticize RR is out of control. Preach to that crowd; not me."
So if I've got it 100% "completely backward" then you must have been calling him an asshole for having the same opinion as you, because that would be the opposite of the statement, "having a different opinion".
Also, so your response to persons attacking those who would criticize RR...is to call them names?
I'm not preaching to you, I'm just trying to help you realize the fatal flaws in your argument.
Have some of those who have made fair criticisms of RR been unfairly marginalized? Yes. I personally believe this to be true, however, you have to understand that the stance of this particular blog is pro-RR.
You may call it group think, but it is group think in the same manner that most Americans believe in the freedom of speech. Some people don't know the first things about the FOS or how to defend it, just as there are many people on this blog who support RR but couldn't logically defend him or tell you the first things about the spread offense, however, by and large we have come to the conclusion that RR is good for the program, just as FOS is good for America.
Now, the ignorance of a few in no way should reflect upon the views of the majority. I think that in criticizing the more ignorant members of this blog you walk a very thin line between making a valid point, and offending a lot of people, and people usually cross that line when they start generalizing.
We all know that RR has won 8 games in two years, and this thing, and that thing, but I think that most of all, people are sick of the negativity. I think that is especially true with all that has happened this year with Michigan athletics, and the state as a whole. So, you, as well as others, who are consistently adding to this negativity are going to be ostracized from this community.
Being positive doesn't mean you have to be less of a critic, it just means that you aren't adding to the overall negative perception of the program's current state.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^
AKG was accused of "wanting the team to lose". Saying that to another fan (super or otherwise) is wrong. If you are that "we"; you're a swell guy.
Freedom of speech?? Seriously? Support RR or hurt the program???? It's like listening to Bush rant about support the Iraq war or else the terrorists will win. Unreal. Save that nonsense for someone who isn't an attorney (or a thinking person).
I'll continue to hope that RR turns it around, and will continue to realize that freedom of speech is a ridiculous add on to a conversation whereby the majority is trying to squelch the speech of others.
All the best.
January 25th, 2010 at 12:45 PM ^
Typical.
You are just another ZOMGZ DICK ROD guy.
Fails to respond to, or even comprehend any of my points.
Fails to understand a simple analogy, has to go all extreme (RR=FOS=DONT LIKE RR=DONT LIKE FOS!?!?!?!?!!??! Seriously? That's what you got out of that?) and equates me with George Bush.
Calls me an attorney in a negative manner.
Probably now thinks I'm just another arrogant Michigan fan.
Good luck trying to survive in this jungle.
January 25th, 2010 at 1:44 PM ^
Sorry, I'm not an acronym guy. I use my words.
I am, however, an attorney (and was referring to myself, goofball). I am also an arrogant Michigan (not just coach) fan.
Finally, this is not a jungle. This is a blog. I think I'll be fine. All the best.
January 25th, 2010 at 2:37 PM ^
I'm just going to simplify this as much as possible.
The reason you're getting consistently neg bombed isn't because you're somehow "taking a stand" or "fighting group think," it's because you're just whining and complaining.
You haven't provided any insight, you're just complaining about posters, RR, and the state of the program.
*NEWSFLASH* You're not doing fine, because people hate whiners and complainers, and you happen to be both.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:10 PM ^
My life goes on despite your obsession with me. I'll root for my team with my eyes open. Keep your blinders on, hater.
January 25th, 2010 at 3:56 PM ^
Are you otherwise known as "The Situation"?
It all makes sense now...
January 25th, 2010 at 7:51 PM ^
That's the first (and only) funny thing you've said!
January 25th, 2010 at 12:51 PM ^
I, uh, don't recall my comparing RR to Jesus. And, come to think of it, I don't recall anybody else comparing RR to Jesus, Muhammad, Moses, Buddha or Siddharta.
I do think somebody might have compared RR to Zeus, which might be overblown, but I think the comparison to Jupiter, the God of War, was a fair one, don't you?
You are just an idiot if you don't realize that this site features thoughtful criticism of the team and the coaches. along with some serious rooting for the team's success. Judging by some of your more sensible language, I might have thought that you too would favor a mixture of rooting interests and thoughtful criticism.
What you really should know is that MGoBlog is one of those rare places where the public can find thoughtful criticism of RR's various and sundry critics -- The Free Perss, sports radio, and the insidious and cowardly-anonymous sniping by persons in positions of coaching and administration authority, outside of the fringes of Michigan football. If you truly like thoughtful criticsm, you should very much like MGoBlog.
January 25th, 2010 at 8:13 PM ^
And the Oracle of Delphi. Carry on!
January 24th, 2010 at 10:53 PM ^
This is getting all sorts of confusing. I like Rodriguez, you don't, we'll leave it at that.
I have my opinions as to why we needed to hire him (or someone like him) to be national contenders (my words were "to contend with the Floridas of the world" in reference to their status as a national contender, but "Alabamas" or "USCs" would have been apt to an extent as well), while you seem to think that beating Florida in 2008 was a sign that we were already competitive on that stage. That's fine, whatever.
As it stands though, (and while we're talking about Lloyd's teams) Carr was pretty open and honest about how the game had begun to pass him by and in turn, the Michigan football program. That's where my support of RR comes from. He brings something new and innovative, like winged helmets and landing on the moon, to a program that was growing stale. I can stand a couple years of growing pains if it means competing for National Championships not just Big Ten Championships, some can't.
January 23rd, 2010 at 2:40 PM ^
something like this:
"I dont [sic] know him, but I can tell through videos that his mentality is not one to embrace the community and culture of Ann Arbor."
Of course, it is absurd to consider Rich Rodriguez as having "ditched" his hometown. Perhaps the writer meant that he "ditched" his home state. The state where he grew up and went to school and coached for a while.
Here's a short list of others who "ditched" their home state, to come to Michigan to coach football:
~Fielding H. "Hurry Up" Yost
~Herbert O. "Fritz" Crisler
~Glenn E. "Bo" Schembechler
January 23rd, 2010 at 7:52 PM ^
... it seems like a fairly classist statement to me every time it's made.
RichRod is a blue-collar guy from West Virginia, of all places. He's not a stoic, like Lloyd Carr; his wife has big blonde hair.
This is the opposite of what a lot of the wine-and-cheese types see Michigan as. I've come to think that in some people's usage, a "Michigan man" can be understood to be a certain social class of people, which RichRod is not.
Funny thing, that, because I don't think Bo was either. Like others have said, winning - enough winning - cures all.
January 25th, 2010 at 11:40 AM ^
Instead of "How can you sit there and insult fans who've proven themselves with 30 years of support?"...
Try "How can fans who've been supporters for 30 years sit there and insult the program?"
Ask not what the University can do for you. Ask what you can do for the University!
January 23rd, 2010 at 12:36 PM ^
Amazing post. I am sucker for things like that and was definitely tearing up. One of my buddies is a huge ND and constantly rips on RR for being dirty. I ask him to give me examples and he sites Chris Henry and Pac Man which of course is totally stupid because they did nothing wrong at WVU. I just sent him the link to your blog to look at. Again, great post!
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:46 PM ^
The whole not winning thing makes those an issue. Just like how the whole no sex things makes the garbage a huge issue.
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:52 PM ^
Change is bad. Get off my lawn.
Heard it a million times. At least I know how to use the internet and most of the features on my cell phone.
January 22nd, 2010 at 11:58 PM ^
I really am surprised RR hasn't jumped ship with some of the ridiculous fans we have around. It's pretty sad what he has to put up with.
January 23rd, 2010 at 12:08 AM ^
winning is everything......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iHkhRpxNYNk