You should adjust your thread title. He turned down the interview, not the job.
spoiler alert: i linked this
You should adjust your thread title. He turned down the interview, not the job.
But there's a huge difference. It's one thing to say "I'm happy where I'm at, I'm not looking, so no, don't even bother to see if you want me" vs. "yeah, they were begging me to come, but I said no, Missouri is better".
it is a fine point. Its a major point.
To me, it is simple. He did not want to leave Mizzu. Maybe he knew he wasnt worthy. Maybe he knew he had "skelatons" that would come out, maybe he knew that he could never be a Michigan Man.
There are many reasons why he could have turned down the interview. Maybe DB would not have offered him the job. Maybe DB would have realized that the guy isnt ready for prime time.
Everyone knows that Michigan is a Top 3 job. It has only become open 4 times in 40 years. And you can actually cut that down to 2 because Gary then Lloyd were foregone conclusions to take over. So the hiring of RR and Brady could be considered "open" recruitment.
I would have been angry if DB would have hired him. He is not worthy.
This post is why people think Michigan fans are entitled and arrogant. Why is it so far-fetched to have a coach happy enough where he is that he wouldn't want to come to Michigan? Why does it have to be a deficiency on his part? Gary Pinkel is not less of a coach or a person just because he didn't want to leave Mizzou.
Pinkel is an excellent coach, and there is no reason to say otherwise.
Yes, this is Michigan (for God's sake!), and it is a great job, but people are allowed to be happy where they are without being wrong. Quit being a douche.
might have sensed he really didn't have a shot at the job and didn't want to invest the time and perhaps damage his relationship with his current employer and fans. For most of us, we can explore other job opportunities without having to tell our current employer. For football coaches, it;s virtually impossible to do that.
point that is similar to mine. Maybe he figured he wasnt going to get the job anyway.
because his Robin (Jeff Casteel) wasn't leaving the Morgantown Bat Cave.
wonder what thngs would have been like if Jeff flew the coupe as well. I cant help but think RR would still be here. Just my opinion.
LET IT GO
obviously did not read my post. I, in no way stated that he was a lesser coach. I said "maybe" to illistrate other options. I never said he was a terrible coach. I never said he that he thought he was "better" than Michigan.
All I did was point out other options. Why are you so afraid of other options? The article only indicated that he was comfortable at Mizzu. I love Mizzu. They have an awesome campus. I have spent several years roaming the Missu campus. I would move there in a heart beat. So I understand, more so than most, why he is staying.
But there "might" be other reasons too. In another post, it was suggested that he was a candidate for MSU Hockey. So what if he turned down Michigan Football to become MSU Hockey coach; maybe (there is that word again) hockey is his first passion. Does that make him a bad football coach?
Just because someone can think critically and propose alternative ideas does not make them arrogant. If I made the statement, "He is not good enough for Michigan". That could be constued as an arrogant statement. My opinion is that he would not have had success and we would be in the same situtation. So you critisize my opinion??? So much for a free blog. (Notice I did not say "free press")
You choose to take the article at face value. Good for you. Im happy for you. However, that doesnt mean there were other factors. I guess some people as sheep and will believe anything. For teh record, if it came from the Freep, I would not even read it.
I didn't say you didn't have a right to your opinion. You do have that right - just as I have a right to criticize it. I'm not the proprietor of this blog. I have no authority over its content. I didn't delete anything. I disagreed with you, nothing more. Often times I've noticed the first person to say "I thought this was a free place for opinions" is the guy with the unpopular opinion trying to turn it around on the people who think he's a dipshit. I'm not trying to curtail your free speech. I just think you're wrong.
I took the article at face value because I don't give a damn why Gary Pinkel didn't come here. He's a good coach, but I'm happy with the guy we got. Let him do his thing at Mizzou. I don't need him to justify staying at Mizzou, and I don't need to speculate as to why he didn't interview at Michigan, because it doesn't actually matter.
Pinkel is a good coach, period. Your argument that he wouldn't be ready for primetime is crap - 3 out of his last 4 years have been 10-win seasons in a BCS conference that isn't the Big East or ACC. That IS primetime. In addition, there were those saying Coach Hoke wasn't ready for primetime either, and yet he got hired. How do you feel about that? Personally, I'm good with it. But other than Michigan on his resume, can you find a way that Gary Pinkel is LESS qualified than Hoke to coach a premier football team? If you'd like to offer a rebuttal, please let me know what facts and statistics you can offer me to change my mind.
Also, "I would've been angry if DB would have hired him. He is not worthy," is saying he is a lesser coach. That was a definitive statement that you wrote, not "maybe he isn't worthy." Maybe he's not. Who are we to say? Do we have such incredible expertise that we can actually nitpick to figure out whether someone who brought Mizzou football out of the crap heap is worthy of coaching us?
is not to offer new or exciting data to change your mind. You called my post arrogant. I did not retailate by saying that you were a Walmart Wolverine either. You made a personal attack I am ok with that.
Mizzu is not Michigan. It is not even in the same league. That is as close to a fact that any opinion can be. As for the coach, good for him for staying. He has had some limited success. But let's see what he can do in the Big Ten first before we give him the coach of the decade award.
Everyone knows playing the likes of Oklahoma and Nebraska every year is nothing close to the level of competition in the Big 10.
is not the Big Ten. The only team worthy is of course Nebraska. I was actually hoping for Mizzou to join the Big Ten. Then we can see how they fair in a real conference.
I will bet anyone that Mizzou will win the Big 12 North conference 7 out of the next 10 years. Good for them. But it is not Michigan or the Big Ten.
I agree with that, but neither is the Mountain West. Is Gary Patterson not ready for primetime? Was Urban Meyer? Brian Kelly was a coach at GVSU and at Cincinnati (not exactly a storied program) in the Big East - how do you feel about his hiring at one of the biggest jobs in the country?
Also, I'm not arguing with you about strength of schedule. I'm saying he's had success. Pinkel has built the program at Mizzou over the last 10 years. He is absolutely ready for primetime. Just because it wasn't the Big Ten doesn't mean it's not valuable experience. Again, this is the arrogance I'm talking about. The Big Ten is a good conference, but it doesn't deserve to be on a pedestal. We, as fans, bitch and moan when people talk about the SEC like it's so amazing - even though the SEC has won the last five MNCs. It's hypocritical to then do the same with the Big Ten. And before you get all indignant, I am not claiming you ever said anything about the SEC, nor am I calling you a hypocrite.
I'm simply saying success is success, and it doesn't matter who a coach has played to get it. What matters is the success he has when he gets on the field. Everything else is posturing and bullshit.
Um the B10 is nothing special, that's not exactly breaking news on the college football landscape. It's special to us, but that doesn't make it so. Regarding the M job, the reason he called your post arrogant was that it pre-supposed an accepted status that hasn't exactly been bestowed us by the rest of the country. It's a great job, but did you notice a stampede of elite coaches breaking doors down the last two openings that the rest of us didn't? It's a great job, but to say it's top three is certainly a legitimate opinion, but one that is very much open to debate.
or baseless speculation?
Do you consider "He is not worthy" (which you DID say) to be similar to "He is not good enough for Michigan?" Just remember, if you had said "He is not good enough for Michigan," that would be arrogant of you...
I figured I'd check.
good enough for Michigan or any other top Big Ten team. Lets see what he can do against Big Ten teams.
Well, he's beaten Illinois 4 times, Nebraska twice, Northwestern once, and lost a tight game to Iowa. That's how he's done against the (current) Big 10 since 2007.
He's also coached his team to a win in 2010 over #3 Oklahoma, but that's nowhere near the competition level of the Big 10...
Big Ten teams is NOT the same as playing in the Big Ten Conference. Just because he had some limited success against weaker Big Ten teams does not mean he can survive the game in and game out rigors of a tough Big Ten schedule. I dont see how you can draw that conclusion from such a limited data set.
That's changing the game, though. You said, and I quote, "Let's see what he can do against Big Ten teams." I simply indicated what he has done against Big Ten teams. Had you said, "Let's see how he does with the rigors of a full Big 10 schedule," I would've responded differently. For example, it's not like the Big 12 has been a bunch of nothings. Remember, we just welcomed one of its teams into our conference.
Semantics aside, I think Pinkel is a great coach who is ready for a big-time job. He has the record. He has the resume. It seems to me that he'd rather make the job he has a big-time job, and that's admirable. You can only analyze the data that's available to you. Anything else is speculation, which is why I objected to your post in the first place. I also saw your post as arrogant, and I stand by that now - especially since you've decided to expand upon it.
and I respect that. There are some that would call you a Walmart Wolverine. Which I will not and I do not support that term. I will leave that to Mike Valenti.
Your sample size of Mizzou against Big Ten teams is not a significant. The only way to accomplish this is to play in the Big 10 week in and week out. Then lets see how he does. I will bet he would not make a BCS bowl.
I hope he does move up to a big time job. Then his real metal will shine. If he is successful, i will buy you a beer. Either way, I do not think he is ready. And maybe, just maybe, he realizes that too.
Do you believe that Hoke is "worthy" of Michigan (to borrow your term)? Because he's coached Ball State and San Diego State--neither of which plays in a conference that compares to the Big Twelve--and compiled a sub-.500 career record.
That does NOT mean that Hoke will be unsuccessful at Michigan, but Gary Pinkel has the stronger resume, objectively. If your measure of a prospective coach is "let's see how he'd do against Big Ten teams," then presumably Hoke would not pass muster in your book, either.
It's called apophasis - denial of one's desire to speak of a subject that is named or insinuated. In other words, you are calling me a Walmart Wolverine without calling me one. In my book, that means you have called me one.
It's crap, by the way.
For the record, I am a Michigan graduate - class of 2005. My wife, sister, brother-in-law, father, mother, and three sets of aunts and uncles all graduated from Michigan. I have bled Michigan football from the day I was born, even growing up in Cincinnati, Ohio. I love Michigan sports with all my heart, and I always will. What I am is realistic about the conference we play in and its place in college football. We are one of many conferences. We have our strengths and our weak points. We are NOT the be-all-end-all of the football world.
To think we are is arrogant, delusional, and misguided. On that note, you can kiss my ass. I'm finished with you.
LOL why do you keep bringing up the "walmart wolverine" crap? I think you're more likely to be a walmart wolverine than he is, at least he knows how to write.
Your arguments are retarded btw. Mizzou should've played in the Orange bowl in 2007, but they got screwed by the BCS. Mizzou beats Kansas, then loses to Oklahoma in the championship game, and then the BCS goes and rewards Kansas for not playing in that game by sending them to the Orange bowl instead of Mizzou... lol What has Brady Hoke done to earn your vote of confidence if Pinkel isn't worthy?
Is every Michigan fan here a giant bitch? Whenever something happens against Michigan, all I see is people on here bitching and moaning. This must be the site where all the bitchy fans gather, because I know most fans aren't as bitchy as you. He isn't worthy? You would have been angry with DB? Who cares what you think? Answer: No one. In fact, Pinkel is 10X more qualified than Hoke. What has Hoke done? Made some scrub D-1 teams good for a year or two. Awesome! It's not like that happens all the time. What did Pinkel do? Turn Missourui into one of the best and consistent teams in the country over the past 4 years. Yeah, you're right, he's not qualified. Idiot.
Jeebus guy...A bit harsh there.
It is true that Pinkel has made something of Missouri but, let's face it, it's not Michigan and won't ever be Michigan. This is in the same context as Memphis being somewhat successful in basketball and it has been a reasonable spring board for coaches. Pinkel is a good coach who clearly feels safe competing in a second tier conference and more power to him. Rich Rodriguez had this same situation when he turned down the overtures from Alabama and would have done better to stay at that level. Maybe Pinkel is just more insightful than Rodgriquez.
Agree. We're also very lucky that more than 40 years ago Don Canham didn't hire some no-name coach out of a minor-league conference where he'd won just two conference titles playing the likes of Bowling Green and Kent State. Obviously somebody with that track record wouldn't have been worthy either.
.....when I read this. Some people are happy where they are at, just like any job, anywhere. It's that simple. Pinkel is happy at Missouri, and you know, that's cool.
My other complaint - who are you to say who is worthy for the job? How is this worthiness determined? Does DB need to consult the Oracle at Delphi to get insight into a "worthy" successor? Someone mentioned it before, but it bears repeating, this post is the epitome of the image problem we as Michigan fans seem to be stuck with as entitled and arrogant. You're not doing anyone any good by perpetuating it.
If you call other people "not worthy", you should spell "skeletons" correctly.
ANYONE who turns down a chance at the Michigan job MUST be flawed or he would have WALKED all the way from (insert city) to take the job.
When you fire a coach the way DB did RR, pulling the carpet out from under him just as his rebuilding effort was about to reach fruition, and not allowing him to finish what he started, nobody who isn't an old cronie is going to seriously consider the job. Nobody who isn't a part of the good ol boy network is ever going to be allowed to work out an entire five year contract while someone from that network is the AD.
Even Jim Harbaugh doesn't trust DB and didn't want any part of him.
PInkel was quite astute to turn down the interview.
That was it.
I agree that this representative of the arrogance of too many delusional Michigan fans. How in God's name is Michigan possibly a top 3 job? The job has been turned down by Les Miles (twice), Greg Schiano, Harbaugh, Fitzgerald, and evidently more guys turned down interviews in the last few years. We settled on Brady Hoke who I love so far but he is relatively unproven. A top three job doesn't have that kind of difficulty getting a great coach. Here's a list of the job's that are better than Michigan, roughly in the order I list them:
6. Florida State
Those schools all have the institutional recognition and support Mighigan has but they all have huge geographical recruiting advantages over Michigan. This is why guys like Urban Meyer went to Florida over ND (which is the most similar job to Michigan) and the reason Miles turned us down twice.
One could argue that Georgia and Miami are ahead of Michigan for the same reasons. The schools that closer to Michigan are Oklahoma, ND and Tennessee. All have great histories, but all need to recruit nationally and to a large extent outside of their own states. This is not an easy thing to do and that's why all schools (with the exception of OK) have had difficulty with coaching hires lately.
The days of just being Michigan or ND to get top talent (players and coaches) are over. With the ESPN 3/4/5/U etc, kids don't need to go to the schools traditionally on national television to get noticed anymore. And the NFL has become better at finding guys from smaller schools and comparing them with kids from top schools used to carry a premium with NFL teams.
Institutional advantages are largely gone for most schools except the ones I've previously mentioned due to geography. That's why schools like BSU and TCU can have sustained success for a decade. It's all about coaching and the good coaches are choosing the schools with geographic advantages.
I smell a meaningless neg-bang
Painful, but true. Hopefully Hoke & Co. can re-establish Michigan as a perennial Big Ten contender and overcome Michigan's comparative geographical disadvantage.
I hate half of our fanbase.
blah blah blah who cares?
He was also a finalist for the MSU Hockey head coaching gig.
I heard he didn't get it because he said the answer to 48%2(9+3) was 288, and most Spartans disagreed.
Maybe the pressure is too much for him, alot of coaches probaly got scared after seeing the way RR was harassed.
point as well. I did not think of this. Coaching in a top team is a pressure filled situation. Im sure RR did not get much sleep after the disaster bowl game. Maybe Gary was comfortable in his own skin like Magic. /s
Pretty sure that he was never offered. Glad we got a M man.
Stop with that. What makes Hoke a Michigan Man? He graduated from Ball State. He coached at Ball State. I'm pretty sure he's a Ball State man. He was an Assistant Coach at Michigan, yes. But if you consider every Assistant Coach Michigan has ever had a "Michigan Man" then is GERG a Michigan Man? Is RR now retroactively a MIchigan Man because he coached here? I'm glad we got a guy who looks to be a good coach. It has nothing to do with some arbitrary title he may or may not have.
He turned down the interview, not the job...rather large difference
I have been saying all along. Who cares why or how. I certainly dont.
FWIW, I was hoping for Pinkel but am very happy having Hoke.
I think Pinkel is a very good coach and could have also been successful at Michigan or any other place where he "fits".
FWIW, I expect that no such list exists, since if it did, it might be the subject of a FOIA request. So, in plainer English, "Who exactly did Brandon talk to about taking the Michigan job?"
I'd check with Joe McCarthy. I heard him say he had a list in his shirt pocket.
This is what I have been saying. Is Pinkel saying this to feather his cap? How do we know that he was asked to be interviewed?
For that matter, Section 1 turned down the job as well. How do we know?