Gardner needs to run to open up pass?
First, let me say that I really appreciate Devin Gardner and all that he does for Michigan football and the community. He seems like a great, hard-working guy. On the field he gives his all and has almost single-handidly carried Michigan in big games (ND 2013, OSU 2013, etc)
This year his on-the-field performance has been bad. It is even more alarming when you see that he is a fifth-year senior with lots of starting experience. In fact, I think he is having the single worst season for any returning starter senior QB in Michigan history.
So, what gives?
I notice he isn't running the ball nearly as much as last year. There seem to be almost no designed runs and he is carrying the ball HALF as much as last year. In his previous years he ran nearly as much as he threw (around 75% or higher). Now it is half as much as he throws and bothe sets of numbers are down.
It could be injury, design or both casuing the change, but could this be the main reason for his PASSING struggles? Does he need to keep defenses honest with his feet (ala Denard)?
Does he need the threat of his legs to open up the passing game? You would think that focusing on passing more would make him better. It hasn't.
The offensive line pass blocking and run game seem to have improved a bit from last year. A similar move up by Gardner would have resulted in a "mediocre" offense and a more satisfying season.
BUT, his passing performance seems to have gotten much worse the less he is asked to carry the ball.
November 11th, 2014 at 11:34 AM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^
Seriously? Anyone who watches the games knows that Devin is injured. If there were a decent backup he likely would have been able to sit out a couple games and recover a bit.
November 11th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 11:36 AM ^
Good call. This has not been proposed here before, as far as I know.
November 11th, 2014 at 3:25 PM ^
Yeah.
It's not like Devin ever fumbles when he runs either, so, great call actually.
/s /s /s /s /s /s
November 11th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
He doesn't look nearly as explosive when he tries to scramble as he has in the past. He is likely hurt.
Anyway, we don't have the scheme to magically turn a running QB into a game-altering force. It'd probably help if he was healthy, but defenses would still focus on our main stuff (which we can't run effectively.)
Expect to see some of it for OSU though...
November 11th, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
Unfortunately the dude is broken. Everybody was hoping he could recover from being hobbled at the end of last season and consistently be what he had shown for stretches (ND UTL for example). It hasn't happened. He's been hurt again, and he just can't put it together. It's too bad, and it's hard to watch. That's it.
November 11th, 2014 at 11:39 AM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 11:40 AM ^
My hope is they go balls out against OSU and turn him loose. Cut down on the reads he needs to make in the passing game and spread OSU out. At that point if he gets hurt, no big deal. We will get crushed if we stay the same and crushed if he gets hurt.
In my opinion, the struggles are confidence and ability. He is shaken up from last year (happy feet) and he can't read the defenses.
Running will help open things up, but he needs a very simple scheme and even then his mechanics are terrible half the time.
As a passer he is permanently broken. As a runner, maybe two more weeks will get him healthy enough....
November 11th, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
November 11th, 2014 at 2:48 PM ^
We would all settle for more accurate passes, fewer dropped passes and a RB to hit the hole. But, DG is broken and the passes are what they are, our receiving and running back corp are staying the same, so you can hope for drastic improvement, but at this point it seems unlikely.
Regarding serious injury, They are starting him every game and having him go back to pass. He is at risk every play. Running him increases it, but it is not like he has concussion issues. It is his leg, he will never play qb again and a WR at this point is his only chance in the NFL.
You are probably right about them not going balls out against OSU, but in my opinion they should.
November 11th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
Without a medical diagnosis to confirm this, my suspicion is that from being pasted so much over the last couple years he cannot do the following -
- Run as well as he could a year ago - it just looks like he is running strange
- Throw as well as he could a year ago - his accuracy is pretty bad
- Make the correct reads - maybe a sign of shell shock and lack of confidence in his OL
Whatever is causing these things, he might have time to correct some of his ailments if his backup quarterback hadn't been
- Terribly unprepared
- Smeared into oblivion in the one game he played in
Because "we don't talk about injuries™" is the going policy, it is likely we won't ever really know until he does some interviews after his career is over at Michigan.
November 11th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
Same thing with Hackenburg, keep an eye on him the next two years
November 11th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
Gardner doesn't have the strongest arm, isn't the most accurate and sometimes doesn't make the quickest or best decisions throwing. He's struggling in a lot of areas this season. And not being able to use his best talent, his athleticism, is compounding everything. He looks beat down, both physically and mentally.
November 11th, 2014 at 11:58 AM ^
he's pretty good. Pay no attention to his 5.2 QB rating.
But he is an outstanding student and person.
November 11th, 2014 at 11:44 AM ^
I think he needs to run to set up the pass. He is just more comfortable moving around than sitting in the pocket waiting to get hit. His best passing games have been when he's active on his feet.
Unfortunately, he's hurt and his mobility is limited. I would love to see a repeat of last year's OSU game, but I don't thnik it is in the cards. That's also not Nuss's style of game.
Poor damn Gardner.
November 11th, 2014 at 8:16 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 11:49 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
November 11th, 2014 at 11:54 AM ^
I would actually give Hoke somewhat of a pass for having an injured QB, except that we are in year 4 and he hasn't managed to develop a single QB recruit of his own that looks even somewhat game ready. The fact that we are in year 4 and he's having to use injured Gardner even though he struggling so badly because every other QB on the roster is so ineffective is just ridiculous.
November 11th, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^
I am not down on Nuss and Hoke for struggling with run-first recruited QBs. I think there is some basis there for that to be a potentially excusbable reason for offensive struggles. But, having no one else? Come on. Where the hell is Bellomy? I know he injured his ACl, but he is back this year. THIRD year in the program. He should be able to do something. Anything.
Fine. Maybe he is a just a bust (trying not to base everything off the NU game).
What about Morris> Why is he horrid? I know he had mono a couple years ago, but that is hardly an excuse for not knowing what to do out there.
How about a "preferred walk-on" or a transfer? They had three years to find a transfer. They can recruit. WHat happened?
November 11th, 2014 at 12:15 PM ^
enough to run the offense is a complete failure by the staff. I don't buy the fact any more that neither Bellomy or Morris have enough talent to run the offense. They just haven't been developed at all. Hell, how long as Bellomy been here now? 4 years? Leaving in the game a beaten down, injured QB like Devin and having no other options is not acceptable. At a minimum, they should have given Devin the IU game off to help him get better.
Whomever the next coach is, he MUST have a proven record of developing players IMO before we even consider him.
November 11th, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 8:19 PM ^
Bellomy is exactly where you'd expect a QB to be who wasn't even among the 60 ranked quarterbacks in his class at Rivals and whose offer sheet, other than Michigan, was a lengthy list of Sun Belt and MAC schools and a couple of desperate lower-echelon power schools like Purdue and Colorado.
I looked up the names next to his in the Rivals QB list for his class, sorted by rating (these are the lowest tier of 3-stars) and here's where they are now:
- Cormac Craigie, California, converted to safety on arrival at the school
- Nick Isham, now at D3 Cal Lutheran
- Deauntre Smiley, backup at Prairie View (couldn't find a depth chart but five QBs have thrown passes this year and he isn't one of them)
- Shaun White, Middle Tennessee, dismissed from school following his arrest
- Michael Cummings, now the starter at Kansas
- Dominique Harris, transferred from Memphis to Alabama A&M but he doesn't appear on their roster and I'm not sure where he is now
- Zach Griffith, Louisiana Tech, 3 for 6 in his career
He was a shot in the dark, taken in desperation when the new staff had a couple of weeks to land a quarterback. It would have been great if it had worked out but it's hardly a surprise that it didn't.
November 11th, 2014 at 12:21 PM ^
that an injured Gardner is our best option. I would really like to see how all of the QB's do in practice, especially Speight. Unless Speight absolutely gets zero reps in practice being a redshirt. I bet Nuss would love it if someone could beat Gardner out of his spot, but then again I think Hoke somehow feels he owes it to Devin.
November 11th, 2014 at 11:56 AM ^
Why does one need to "open up?" Why can one not just open?
November 11th, 2014 at 11:59 AM ^
His arm, is not the same arm as before. What the hell it is, I couldn't tell you. But there is something clearly wrong.
Ankle/foot: Also big difference. Good comments above. I think he is almost certainly in continual pain. YET: Without Devin Gardner, NW would have been a loss. IU: Also a loss.
There's not a game I think we would have won this entire season without him.
November 11th, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 12:45 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 12:07 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 1:42 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 12:10 PM ^
Injuries aside, Devin is not a Pro Style QB. If he were in a spread (and not injured), he would be an above average QB.
November 11th, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 12:14 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 12:19 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^
Shhhh. Don't tell anyone because we don't want opposing teams to catch on, but we haven't been able to throw more than 10 yards down field reliably since Henne left.
That makes things quite a bit easier on opposing defenses, only having to play within 10 yards of the line of scrimmage and all. And the offensive line is dealing with 5, 6, 7 rushers because, you know, it only takes 4 DBs to cover receivers within 10 yards of the line. And so big surprise that our QB keep getting broken and our RBs have no holes.
Young O line+ no deep passing threat=what we have been getting for the last seven seasons, save one.
November 11th, 2014 at 8:39 PM ^
There's some truth to that, but under Borges Michigan must have been throwing deep more than most because in yards-per-completion we were #5 in the country in 2012 and #4 in 2011. Only Georgia in 2012 ran more long routes than Michigan--the other three schools both years were Georgia Tech and the two academies that don't throw at all.
That left with Borges and I think most people here were glad it was gone.
November 11th, 2014 at 12:44 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 12:58 PM ^
He's also so injured that he shouldn't actually be playing, but okay, guy.
November 11th, 2014 at 1:05 PM ^
The dude can hardly walk, there's no way that he'd be able to run. I love everything that he's given for the university, but he's broken because of it.
November 11th, 2014 at 1:27 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 1:28 PM ^
Sorry man. Between this having already come up a dozen times here before, the fact that Devin is injured and thus can't really run, and that there are only 2 games left of a now "who gives a f*ck" season, had to neg you.
November 11th, 2014 at 1:40 PM ^
I frequent the board on an almost daily basis and did not see it. Its pathetic that someone gets negged for having other crap to do. That's a very weak reflection of the type of person who belongs on here (i.e., someone without much of a life).
November 11th, 2014 at 2:43 PM ^
He's injured, and Hoke has said as much.
It's a lot safer to hold off on starting threads unless you know that you have all the relevant information, especially if you're going to write a really long OP.
November 11th, 2014 at 3:23 PM ^
If you really hate the posters, the mods, and Brian so much (see: bigblueworld's thread) and consider yourself vastly superior, then why don't you fuck the fuck off and make everyone happier?
November 11th, 2014 at 3:28 PM ^
"...then why don't you fuck the fuck off and make everyone happier?"
November 11th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^
S-Morris NY. Or any other QB NY.
This might NOT Actually Happen-- Nuss could be So Out Of His League for some reason at this point, that you might Not See Much for the next 2-games. Incredible as that sounds.
Which is of course-- a Scary Thing for NY. But the Whole Nuss-O has been scary THIS year.
When I SEE-- good Ocall Sequencing from Nuss, I will KNOW It . . .
It is WHAT-- I do . . .
November 11th, 2014 at 1:57 PM ^
i dont know how many of you have played sports where you have to throw a ball. however, if you have an injury as significant as the injury DG seems to have to his lower leg (foot/ankle/who really knows) it is extremely difficult to plant or push off with that leg to get any accuracy and velocity on the pass. i believe that this is what we are seeing with devin, and a lot of times he tosses the ball with poor mechanics because he is trying to avoid either pushing off or planting with his injured leg. just my $0.02 on why there is a lack of passing accuracy and velocity from DG.
November 11th, 2014 at 6:26 PM ^
November 11th, 2014 at 6:53 PM ^
I would normally whole heartedly agree that for most high school and college teams (BUT not all) you have to run to help your passing game. Run effectively and the LB and DB have to respect any move towards the LOS making quick throws with big YAC possible. Just look back at Denard Robinson's best years - last year with RR and first year with Hoke. There was that nifty play where he heads to his LEFT with a run action like he's running a QB keeper versus an inverted veer/spread look, but immediately after the ball fake, he looks up and hits a slot man or TE streaking up the seam. The defense has to respect any move he takes towards the line because (a) he is #16 and (b) he is heading LEFT which seems counter intuitive for a throw, yet that is why it worked so way - I think when he connected it usually went for a 20+ yard gain or even a TD, despite the pass itself only covering about 7-10 yards, the receiver is so wide open.
BUT in this case in this season...
1. Devin Gardner seems banged up - making it hard for him to plant and cut.
2. Clearly the team lack confidence in the second and third QB options so running him deliberately and regularly risks a knockout injury forcing them to bring in someone who literally will be a hand-off machine.
3. There are probably a lot of reasons why this year's passing attack hasn't worked out - but if we are single out one key reason in each area - it would be QB (hurt, can't risk major injury), OL (better but still with ghosts of last year), Receivers (the biggest issue, the loss of Gallon hasn't led to someone else popping forth, which only worsened the tendency to lock in on Funchess)