So just to be careful, both backup quarterbacks -- Bellomy and juniorDevin Gardner -- will be taking extra snaps at the position this week as Michigan prepares for Minnesota.
Gardner to get reps at QB
Not a bad idea, considering Denard probably won't practice much while his elbow heals.
who will step in if Denard goes down (God Forbid)?
Exactly. DG taking reps tells us little, because he's not taking reps away from Bellomy, him and Bellomy are splitting the reps that Denard isn't taking. Who actually gets back up snaps in a game is still TBD.
What do you think?
Just because Bellomy was bad doesn't mean that Gardner will necessarily be worse. Gardner was 11/23 last year, mostly in trash time, and didn't complete more than 1-2 good passes per game. The rest looked about as good as Bellomy's passes from this past game. On top of that, a lot of being a QB is reading the defense. If Gardner is throwing picks left and right in practice (I'm not talking about the receivers giving them away to the defenders) then we will probably sill see Bellomy spell Denard in the case of an injury.
I think that Devin will only come in at QB if Bellomy doesn't look good and we need the offensive production.
You really think Gardner could be worse than 4/21 with 0 TDs, 4 INTs?
I know its a small sample size, but it's literally the worst sample that college football has seen in a decade.
Naw, the worst small sample size was Denard, in the first half, against Notre Dame, followed closely by Nick Sheridan's first half against Utah.
sheridan was 11/19 for 1 TD and 1 INT in the first half against utah.
Even Denard's notre dame game drew a 69.4 qb rating.
a distinction without a difference
If they had put him in the game, I guarantee he would have been worse because he hasn't been practicing at QB.
that's a bold guarantee. You're saying he would have thrown more than 3 INTs, and completed less than 20% of his passes?
It would take a lot of doing for Gardner to amass 16 attempts and somehow complete less than 3 passes and throw an additional pick.
It's possib-le, but not probab-le
aint gonna happ'n.
I'm not saying he would be better or worse in the passing game (but I think he owuld have fared better), but the added threat of DG's legs may have been all we needed to pull something off in that game. I mean, we were first and goal when Denard went out. With DG in the game you have both he and a RB in the backfield to try and get it in. We score there and it is a totally different ball game.
I think it is highly unlikely that DG could have done any worse in the passing game and it is highly likely he could have added something to the running game whether he had been taking regular snaps or not.
We simply don''t have the tools necessary on offense to roll with Bellomy and believe he can move the ball with this offense. The only reason why this offense has not been an outright disaster instead of a mere debacle is because we have mobile quarterback that can keep a defense honest both in how they depoly their safties and their blitzes. We don't have wide receivers that can stretch the field vertically (at least experienced ones) and our offensive line has proven unable to generate any push or open up running lanes out of a conventional running set. If Denard's injury lingers and the teams needs an extended fix, Bellomy and Gardner will at least platoon back there. Gardner's mobility could salvage something, while I think riding Bellomy could spell doom for this team with its current makeup. I think Devin will be getting plenty of reps this week, like a crash course, and I would not be surprised if his time at wide receiver is reduced against Minnesota in favor of one of the youngins.
Gardner is at least a running threat, I feel bad for Bellomy in knowing or RBs won't do a dang thing.
Water is wet.
on the East Coast.
I agree with you, and I think that's the way it should be.
Everyone wants DG at QB because he didn't suck at QB last weekend. But I bet he would have. I bet he would have played no better than Bellomy did. When have we seen DG play well at QB for us? Even in the spring game he couldn't hardly hit anyone.
A lot of people have been saying, "yeah, but at least DG can run." Can he? We know he can run up and down the field, but of the times he has run as a QB, 75% or more went for almost no yardage. It takes more than speed to be a running QB. And Bellomy's no slow poke either, his 10-ish yard scramble against Nebraska was one of his best plays, not to mention the speed he showed running down the guy who picked him off.
Point is, if DG was a really good back up option at QB, and he's the guy the coaches wanted at QB next fall, I doubt he'd be playing WR right now.
You honestly think DG would do no better than 3/16 with 3 ints? What? I mean, I thought he was a relatively bad backup and that Bellomy should be backup... until I actually saw Bellomy in a game. I guarentee Devin could break 0 in QBR, he's at least proven that. In games he's seen time in, DG has shown good arm strength, ok (but not great) accuracy, ok (but not great) decision making, the ability to scramble, and the ability to look past his first read. Bellomy has shown none of that.
DG has shown almost none of what you've mentioned, and certainly none of it against a good D in a high pressure situation.
Just because one guys plays poorly, doesn't automatically mean the other guy would have done better.
DG has enough arm strength to throw a ten yard pass without using his whole body. Bellomy doesn't unfortunately. Automatic advantage to DG.
You're right, that's the only important thing. My bad.
say what you want..but right now Bellomy does not posses the arm or legs to run an offense in the B1G. .Devin Gardner does have both...it is that simple. OK you weren't impressed with Gardner last year I get it, but no amount of reps is going to make Bellomy an option at qb this year. Devin can absolutely be a qb and he did play better against MSU on the road last year (which was a tougher environment and defense) than Bellomy did against NU. He also had some clutch passes against Northwestern and a few other games. I don't know what your beef with Gardner is but youre wrong about his ability. He will be the starting qb next year I guarantee it.
I've got no beef with Gardner, at all. I'm just not going to convince myself that he's a good enough QB to come in and win that game for us. He hasn't shown any ability yet to do that. He's a decent QB and a great athlete, which is why I'm glad he's seeing time at WR, because it bothered me last year having such a great athlete on the sidelines all season.
I think a lot of people are looking at Bellomy's performance and saying that DG would have been way better, and we don't know that. He didn't look any better than Bellomy in the spring game. This is not me being a DG hater, this is me being a Bellomy hater hater.
I don't know how much water your thirs point holds since the last 2 years Bellomy was either in high school or a true frosh.
I'm still not buying the "Devin can run" argument because I've never really seen it. He usually just runs around in the backfield, sometimes for positive gain, sometimes for negative gain. Last season he rushed 7 times for 21 yards. That's not enough for me to say that Devin can run.
I'lll give you the experience factor, and the recruit part means little 3 years after the fact. Marvin Robinson was a higher rated recruit than either of our starting safeties, Brandon Moore higher rated than Kwiatkowski, Williams and Funchess, these things happen.
Look - could Devin have done a little bit better? It's possible. Do we have any reason to believe he would have done enough better to make it look any different? No. I don't see Devin stepping up against those blitzes and delivering the ball downfield. I don't see Devin taking off and getting yardage on the ground on a regular basis. My guess is had Devin gone in instead of Bellomy, everyone would be just as pissed and they'd be begging for Bellomy and permanent WR move for DG.
OK, you're right that I looked at his rushing numbers for 2010. In 2011, he had 25 rushes for 53 yards. His longest was 17, his next longest was 7 (they were against Minny and EMU, respectively). So no, it wasn't just against MSU's D, only 6 of his 25 rushes were against MSU and he had rushes in 6 different games. Just because he's an athlete and can run fast does not make him a good runner.
Had DG stayed at QB, I don't think we would have done much better against Nebraska. He still can't throw, at least not that I've ever seen. Maybe one or two of those INTs are incompletions instead, but all that means is that we're punting instead of throwing a pick into the endzone. Maybe we get a chance to kick a long FG once, but that's about it. And remember, DG wouldn't have our best (only?) deep threat (himself), so Nebraska could really cheat up.
You're obviously convinced that Devin is so much better than Bellomy, and are going back to his high school stats(!) to prove it. Don't mention that DG was a kid who couldn't throw well and played against inferior competition whereas Bellomy played in Dallas, TX and threw the ball all over the field. Maybe that has something to do with their rushing stats being lopsided.
Anyway, my point wasn't that Bellomy is better than DG, just that they aren't different enough to argue about. You want circumstantial evidence? Our coaches moved DG to receiver. My guess is that if they felt he was that much better of a back up QB, they would have kept him there, or at minimum practiced him there enough to put him in. Twice this year, Denard has goen out and both times Bellomy has come in. That tells me that the coaches, who see these guys a lot more than we do, think Bellomy is as good (or at least pretty close to as good) as Devin, or they would have made a move.
Devin's move to WR was partly because he was good at WR, and partly because he wasn't adding value at QB, meaning he wasn't enough better than his back up (Bellomy) to keep him there.
Had the coaches felt "man this Bellomy kid is just not ready but Gardner totally is" they wouldn't have moved him.
No evidence is available for the counter-argument.
Actually, there is plenty of evidence that Bellomy is as good, if not better than DG, and it is persuasive evidence at that. The evidence is that Hoke & Co. have decided that that Bellomy is the backup QB, and DG was moved from QB to WR. The coaching staff had a situation in which they had a 6 one way, half dozen another with regards to the backup QB, i.e., they were pretty much equal in their eyes. As such, and given the relative weakness of the WR corp, and DG's athleticism, they made a change in the HOPE (as you aptly pointed out) that DG would contribute at WR. If he didn't, the team was no worse off as he was going to be on the sidelines most of the time anyway -- it was a smart risk/reward play on their part. If DG was a better QB, they wouldn't have moved him to WR and risked putting an inferior QB in Bellomy on the field if Denard went down.
Saturday night proved that the Coaches F'ed up... I get supporting Bellomy a bit..but the guy isn't ready. He simply cant get better if he doesnt have the arm strength to throw a 10 yard out. He is not better than Gardner and its a joke to even suggest it.
Everything you stated is opinion, and proves nothing. But keep trying, maybe YOU'LL get better at actually formulating an effective argument.
"I'm still not buying the "Devin can run" argument because I've never really seen it."
What the hell? We moved the guy to WR! you think he can't run?
Yoyo - don't confuse "guy who can run fast" and "guy who is a good runner with the ball in his hands."
Devin has proven he can run front point A to point B quickly, no doubt. That doesn't mean he can run the ball well from behind the line of scrimmage. Denard is a great runner not just because he has break away speed, but because he has great vision, patience, and agility. I'm not convinced DG has any of thos qualities.
As a downfield threat, being big and fast is often enough (great jumping and catching ability help as well). However, to be a good runner either at QB or RB, there is a very different skill set involved, one which DG has not yet proven he has.
I never said he was a bad player, I was merely responding to yoyo's assertion that since he was a WR, he must be a good running QB. And that's not the case.
Yoyo quoted me saying that I wasn't conviced DG was a good running QB. He responded to that by saying "He's been moved to WR!" To me, he was asserting that since DG is fast enough to play WR, he must be a good running QB. If I am reading this wrong, please let me know, but that's certainly what it seems he's suggesting.
I agree that most good running QBs are good athletes, but not the other way around. Yoyo suggested that because DG was a good athlete, he must be a good running QB.
This is like saying most good basketball players are tall, so since you're a tall person, you must be a good basketball player. It just doesn't work in reverse, as yoyo had asserted.
What does a good D have to do with Nebraska this year? Other than their success defeating the Borges WCO No Bubble Screen Everyone Was Prepared I Wouldn't Do Anything Different Offense (TM; (c) 1998), Nebraska has allowed Ohio State to put up 63, Wisconsin 27, Northwestern 28, UCLA 36, and Southern Miss 20. Southern Miss is 0-8, in Conference USA, and their third highest point total this year is against Nebraska. Even Rice held Southern Miss to fewer points than Nebraska did.
Our offense, like nearly all Al Borges offenses throughout his career, is regressing. Even from his first year under Gerry DiNardo at Indiana (2002 -- 3-9 record, 258 points of offense) to his second (2003 -- 2-10 record, 178 points of offense), his offense regressed. I do not see anything in his long history to suggest that his offense will improve -- the great weight of history suggests strongly the exact opposite. Heck, Greg Robinson had more impressive historical successes than Borges.
What is QBR?
Questionable Brazier Rapture
Does this have to do with Dairy Queen's latest Blizzard flavor?
With Nebraska blitzing like crazy and receivers dropping passes left and right...I don't think DG would have done better than Bellomy. DG would probably run back 25 yards trying to avoid defenders, like we've seen him do before, and then eventually get sacked. His throwing motion was horrible in the spring game and almost assuredly hasn't improved since then.
I agree that Bellomy is not that slow. In the Neb game and in high school highligts, the kid got some speed, especially for his size.
Why? If it's not broke don't fix it.
Saturday. And I'm nit joking.
In other news, now that the horses have escaped Coach Hoke plans on closing the barn door.
that we didn't see Bellomy and Gardner in the backfield at the same time.....we did it with Denard and Gardner last year several times......it would have given the defense something to think about and maybe buy Bellomy a little extra time to make a play.
yes, because one bad quarterback worked out so well, how about TWO bad quarterbacks?
questionable experiment. Borges has moved on.
I kid, I kid.
I am alot more interested in who will get snaps in the third quarter when Michigan is hopefully up big over the next three weeks.
I think this news, coupled with Brady's earlier comments about "if you dont practice you cant play" speaks pretty clearly that if Bellomy plays on Saturday but is ineffective like he was at Nebraska they'll make the change at QB.
Our coaches may be frustrating sometimes but they're not stupid. They saw wat we saw on Saturday and my guess is they were more unhappy about it than we were.
We didn't see this coming.
I bet if Denard couldn't go on Saturday, that Bellomy would at least get a few snaps at first. I think that's how Borges rolls (I don't think that's a bad thing, I think he genuinely believes in Bellomy. Remember, we're not in practice.
That said, I still think DG will be getting snaps at QB should DR not be available.
why Devin wasn't already taking snaps in practice. He should have been spending at least 30% of his time in practice there. I hate to say it but the coach's poor planning cost us a very meaningful game.
You're making some HUGE assumptions here. First, you're assuming that DG was able to take snaps as QB. Second, you're assuming that Bellomy looked terrible in practice. Third, and most important (not to mention unsupported) you're assuming that DG coming in gave Michigan any greater chance of beating Nebraska. I've said it several times...if Hoke & Co. thought that DG game the team a better chance to win, you can rest assured that we would have seen DG come in the game when Denard went down.
Hoke and Borges said that moving DG to WR had a great deal to do with their comfort level with Bellomy. Again, I think we can rest assured that if Russ wasn't anywhere near where they thought he needed to be, they wouldn't have made the move. Russ just had a bad game, after being thrust into a tough situation. He'll be a better QB for having gone through that. It sucks for us fans, but in the long run, the program is going to be stronger for it as it will me that next season we have at least one semi-experienced QB.
And you dont know the real story of why hoke & co made the move regardless of what they said to the media.
Yes we are all just speculating. Some people disagree with you p.o.v. on DG and how he has or hasnt been utilized.
Cant you just fucking accept that without jumping all over every opinion to the contrary?
I see arguments for both sides. Some people myself included think that it was a fuck up. Let it go.
the guy he's responding to asserted we would have won. Which--evidence?
Cant you just fucking accept that without jumping all over every opinion to the contrary?
No Glen Mason's Ugly Wife, no I cannot. I'll tell you why. I do it for 2 reasons. First, I enjoy debating the subject. Secondly, I think that there are a lot of people in our fanbase that have irrational expectations of everyone and everything associated with Michigan football. Further, I find these people annoying. I love Michigan football, but I also understand that things rarely, if ever, go as planned. But, despite the fallibility of most things in life (especially sports), Michigan fans FREAK THE FUCK OUT and speak as if THEY know better than the coaches themselves what plays to call, or which players should play where, and when. YOU think it was a fuck up, but YOU know FUCK ALL about why. I don't know any more than anyone else, therefore, I defer to the guys that ACTUALLY KNOW, and are paid to make the decisions.
IMO, as a fanbase, we should be rallying around Bellomy, and supporting the coach's decision to play the kid that is likely starter next season to get him some valuable real game experience. Instead, we get a bunch of "Monday Morning QB/OC's" in here throwing their lame ass opinions around and generally making our fanbase look like a bunch of whining, know-it-all d bags.
Now this^ guys upset. Chillax man. There just opinions. We all have them. And the last I knew, this is a pretty decent place to express them.
But if DG has been working some at QB this season and spends the offseason working at QB full time, he may benefit from the WR experiment. If nothing else, he should really understand the routes.
If he's got what it takes to QB Div I football, he'll be alright.
I never assumed that he was hurt, and couldn't take snaps at QB. I said the poster was assuming that he COULD. But, as it turns out, he's NOT been taking snaps at QB for many weeks, injury or not.
Garder didn't win the back up job the last 2 years. In fact, one could argue that DG didn't EVER win the back up job -- last year Bellomy wasn't in the lineup, he was redshirted, and this year, the coaching staff moved him to WR. So, it would appear that Bellomy has, in fact, looked better than DG in practice. If he didn't, I seriously doubt that the coaching staff would have felt comfortable with Bellomy, and move DG to WR.
By saying something would be "extremely likely...if..." is "stacking inferences" and is most decidedly NOT factual evidence of anything. Nobody knows what DG would have been capable of if he'd been practicing at QB instead of WR. You might THINK you know, but your assumption about something that hasn't occurred is whole and completely irrelvant, sorry to say. That's why I said it was a HUGE assumption on the part of the poster to whom I responded.
Bottom line is, as Hoke and Borges said, DG wasn't practicing QB, as such, Bellomy was the backup and gave Michigan its best chance of coming back. You can assume anything you want, but that doesn't make it fact.
Gardner is a better QB, therefore the coaching staff elevated Bellomy?
If Gardner was capable of taking the job, he would have the job. Now, that doesn't mean I don't think he should have the opportunity to compete, but I seriously doubt that he is catching passes because he was the best backup QB.
Of course they are.
Sheridan when you need him?
That would be pretty interesting if Bellomy started and torched the gophers. The Sheridan comparisons would be extreme
Devin has the speed to escape pressure, but will he apply it appropriately?
In his defense, It was 4th and 22 - what else was he going to do.
By "appropriately" I assume you're not including trying to make something out of nothing, in a last ditch effort, with the game on the line and 4th and 22?
I'm really sick of the bullshit Devin gets over "yakety sax" and throwing one stride/in stride over the LOS. It comes across as (and was born from) knee jerk and over zealous attempts to defend Denard (who was taking heat at the time)... And it stuck.
Pretty sure I've seen some of the same people who trashed Devin, now defending Bellomy (because Bellomy isn't seen as a threat to Denard I'm guessing). What a joke.
give me some good circus hijinks by a kid whose crazily overconfident any day. Maybe that's just me. . .
In his defense atleast he didn't throw an illadvised interception that got ran back for a TD. Granted an arm punt would have been better than running 5 yards past the LoS and then 15 yards behind it.
The thing that bothers me most about this video is the fact i see 7-8 MSU defenders in the screen at any given time during his "run" and yet only see our offensive linemen with DG. Where are the wide receivers
Will Devin be going back to quarterback next year? Or will they go with Bellomy? Or Morris? I personally believe that Devin should start and that Morris should redshirt.
Didn't the ESPN thing just get this from the press conference on the main page that said the backup spot is going to be a competition this week?
You are correct. The ESPN big ten blog is good for fluff. I still enjoy reading it.
... or the backup's backup.
This is what I expected Borges to say. He's not going to throw a player under the bus. That isn't this coaching staff's style, which is pretty refreshing these days. Privately, I'm sure he's not feeling the same way.
Fact: Pizza is better than spaghetti.
I've never eaten pizza before, but I had spaghetti one time and I didn't like it. Therefore, pizza is better than spaghetti. Fact.
Bellomy's performance versus Nebrask proves nothing. If your "high hopes" for the future are shattered with one failure, I weep for your children.
I would suggest no fasting - leave that to the Coach.
what happened to all the talk about DG's injury that prevented him from going in against Nebraska? was that just an excuse for the coaching staff for not putting DG in or what?
just how many threads are going to erupt into a Bellomy vs DG argument this week. Haven't we said everything there is to say on this yet? I'm glad to see DG get reps this week so both he and Bellomy are good to go Saturday if needed. Hopefully we'll stomp MN early and we can give each of them a quarter of gametime in the 2nd half.