Of all the "analysts"... oh well I guess it's better than nothing. (right?)
Gardner better than Pryor? One analyst thinks so
It would be hard not to be a better passer than Pryor. He is pretty terrible.
If Denard had close to the passing skills Pryor does I'd be a lot more excited for next year.
well i wasnt talking about denard, but yeah if the guy could pass he would be the most dangerous guy on the field hands down.
Denard has excellent passing skills. Physically, his arm is better than Tate's, definitely stronger than Tate's (if you don't believe it, recall which QB was on the field for the hail mary that never got off at the end of the first half against Wisconsin; Denard came in to make the throw to the endzone). He also has a reasonably accurate arm.
Denard's problem in the passing has been deciding where and when to throw the ball. He's thrown the ball late at times (the first interception against Eastern was quite obviously because of a late throw), and he's obviously thrown the ball toward a receiver who was not open.
Unfortunately all the things mentioned in your second paragraph figure prominently into overall "passing skills". If Denard could be a reliable threat in the passing game, he'd be a Percy Harvin who could throw. One day for all I know he could get there. My point was that it's pretty silly and homerish to say that it's pretty hard to be worse than Pryor throwing the ball, when we'd love to have one of our Qbs be nearly as good in that respect.
This would be a great place for the person rooting for the Our Lady of the Lakes HS QB to link in.
Pryor doesn't seem to have much of a "footbal I.Q." either(to match his lacking I.Q. in general).Not much of a leader or "field general".
It's early to say(obviously) but Gardner would seem to have a leg up in that regard as well.
Despite my intense dislike for tOSU, I do believe they will end the Rose Bowl hex. I think the Bucks will slow Oregon down enough and win by a score of 24-21. Their D will win the game for them.
Also agree with Mattbern. Just about every QB in the Big Ten is a better passer than Pryor. But, yeah, he can run.
And how do you propose that tOSU will score 24 points? I will be surprised if they score 14. Their D couldn't stop Purdue's spread or USC starting a true freshman QB. Don't give that D too much credit. They've done nothing outside of defending the, mostly pathetic, offenses in the Big 10. Oregon 28 tOSU 14.
The Pac-10 is having a down year, and I don't think Oregon is that good.
DG will be very, very exciting to see once he is ready. It will be interesting to see what the Barwis regimen and, more importantly, Rod Smith tutelage will produce.
I am gonna take a stab in the dark and say all of the above will produce a top notch dual threat qb.
Agreed. Like I said on another thread on another topic, there will be few excuses for the coaches given his incoming pedigree. He seems like the type that just might be playing on Sundays in 4-5 years.
About pryor, as someone who was coached by an elite qb coach his mechanics are garbage. He is a bum as a passer. I recorded DG's state championship on tivo, only watched the first half thus far, but I was shocked at the rotation and velocity on his passes. I knew he was a great athlete but I was shocked at his talent as a passer. I love me the force, but DG can truley be something special for us.
i really want him to redshirt to give him another year of separation between himself and tate. also because i don't like true freshmen starting at QB
I couldn't agree more. In a perfect world, we have 3 years of great Tate play with Gardner packages, followed by 2 years of Gardner domination.
...1 year of great Tate play, followed by 2 years of great Tate play with Gardner packages, followed by 2 years of Gardner domination.
I think it goes without saying that redshirting Gardner is the best thing for the long term success of the football program. Of course, if Gardner enrolls early he may make that redshirt decision much harder on the coaching staff. Still, I think the ideal depth chart at QB for 2010 is:
If Gardner is playing in 2010, then one of 3 things has happened:
1. Angry Michigan QB-Hating God has struck with great vengeance and furious anger.....please...no.
2. Michigan's season has gone horribly wrong under Tate and Denard's leadership and the coaching staff makes the pragmatic move of seasoning Devin early with an eye toward 2011. Again, this possibility is too horrible to consider.
3. Gardner reveals himself to be QB Kal-El and is simply too good to sit on the bench. Exciting but unlikely because 18 year old super-talents are still 18 years old, unless he really is from Krypton.....
I went to the state championship game against Lowell (my first time seeing him in person) and came away more impressed with him as a passer than as a runner. He has very good arm strength and like you stated velocity. It was night and day watching him throwing in warm-ups compared to anyone else. He definitely needs to put on a little weight. He has a very thin frame right now which is a major difference between he and Pryor. If he gets near the size of Pryor and continues progressing like he has he will be a very good QB in a couple years.
I believe a minor knee injury which limited him in the finals.
Yeah I thought I heard someone say a knee or hamstring injury. We were sitting on the Inkster side and some people kept mentioning he was hampered. In all fairness though I don't know that it would've mattered as Lowell had a good gameplan defensively.
just by watching the suckeyes play, i can tell that "the vest" doesnt trust pryor enough to make his own decisions. much like a parent doesnt let a baby pick out it's dinner, however in this case the baby is 20 years old.
I'd agree and also say that "the vest" is a control freak in that aspect. Obviously coaches want to control the game and what not, but I think he needs to relax a little and just let his players play a little more.
I've only seen Gardner in person a few times, but it looks kind of scrawny to me. By scrawny I mean by college football standards, as in he could easily break me in half, but looks small compared to other players. I feel like he really needs a redshirt year to bulk up and then he'll be amazing. This could just be me though. What do those that have seen him play think?
I'm always skittish about sending in true freshman mobile QBs, due to the risk of them getting injured due to lack of size / muscle on the frame.
Pryor's problems stem from the fact that he is a spread option QB playing in a pro-ish system for a coach who does not feel comfortable running a wide open offense and who has a shaky track record when it comes to developing QBs at Ohio State (other than Troy Smith every QB who has played for Tressel at OSU has been mediocre or crappy). Ohio State's offense would be scary if they would fully embrace Pryor's talents. Just look at how easily they scored on us this year when they opened up the offense a little bit, versus how they punted every time they got conservative.
BTW Ohio State will beat Oregon. The Pac 10 has no defenses and their spread will struggle from being off for a month.
oregon's spread will struggle from being off for a month, last i checked they've been off for less time than ohio state so i think that's irrelevant. ohio st also has no offense, none whatsoever. if they fall behind by 2 scores early the game will be over
Agree with just about everything in the first paragraph. However, didn't Pryor say he wanted to play in an offense that is closer to a 'pro-style' offense rather then a 'spread-style' offense in college?
WVU's offense didn't struggle against OU or Georgia after being off for a while before those bowl games. Boise's offense didn't struggle against OU after being off a while before that bowl game.
What amazes me about OSU offense is that they try to throw as much as they do. When they decided to go spread option, TP was really dangerous. He has great play fake abilities at the mess point, much like Juice at Illinois. He got Graham to commit to the RB multiple times where he kept the ball and went around end.
TP's throwing skills are really poor. he missed at least two wide open deep balls against us that should have been TDs and generally looked confused if he needed to work his progressions.
If TP was a dedicated spread option QB right now, OSU would be far superior to what they have been this year. And regardless of what TP wanted to accomplish in college to prepare for the NFL, he will be a WR in the NFL, not a QB.
For the record, Snyder only asked one question on the call, and it was if Luginbill thought that Devin would have a chance to play next year. It seems weird that I had more questions than a guy that writes for a newspaper.
Luginbill said that Rich Rod hasn't been given enough credit for his recruiting he's done so far. I really really wanted to say, "Yeah, Mark."
So where's the article on it? We have to do whatever we can to make the Freep's news incomplete, and yesterday's.
He may have asked only one question, but he was the one to publish it first. I know...I tried to find another source to cite it to.
Yeah, it doesn't really matter who's first. I published mine, but I didn't realize Brian was out of town still, so it will be up tomorrow. That's my fault.
It's Christmas for...uh...Christ's sake...
But not mattering if you're first? That's what the newspaper industry said...before they shut down. (They're not still around, are they?).
Do you guys think he will be moved completely out of the qb position next year?
I feel that he will never have a chance to start/have a significant/winning impact on our team at QB, but rather in the slot or backfield/wingback.
If this is the case, then I guess DG can't redshirt?
Depth. We need Denard to be in there if Tate goes down. I feel like his experience would outweigh Devin's natural abilities, especially if Devin isn't able to enroll early. I think everyone agrees that Denard's talents aren't best utilized as a quarterback, but right now that's where we need him, and it's whats best for the team.
play in three state playoff games this year (including the finals at Ford Field). He is as impressive a QB as you will ever see in high school, both from a running and throwing standpoint. In the early rounds, he was a man among boys. I think he can contribute some at QB next year but I also believe he needs to enroll early for his contribution to be of any consequence. If he beats out Denard for second spot QB (and I think he will), I sure hope Denard sticks around and moves to another position. Denard is just too valuable and explosive to not have on this team.
Where's the surprise in that Freep? Our boy Tate is a better QB than TP.
Tate may wind up as a better QB than TP at some point, but it was clear from the OSU game (and all of the turnovers) that Tate at his current experience level is not ready to be a dominant college QB.
I suspect that Tate will be much improved in 2010 with the year of experience to adapt his game and learn to throw from the pocket, as opposing defenses won't be as poorly prepared for him as ND was. He will continue to be restricted to the pocket and forced to make his reads, with only a few opportunities to scramble and improvise in the passing game like he prefers to do.
Gardner also played against much higher level competition at the high school level than Pryor. Something that is often forgotten or ignored about Pryor.
Even though Gardner has tons of talent he has to take a redshirt next year. Do you guys really want to see another year of growing pains for a true freshman?
that might be good for DG if he is a true freshy with so called growing pains. Tate had them so bad he said that he's probably gonna wreck on teams next year.
I really don't want to see a true frosh starting at QB for UM in the fall. I'm hoping to see some nice improvement from tate in both the running game and passing game next fall.
I'm all for giving everyone a shot to earn the starting job, but imo, the only realistic chance Gardner has for that is to enroll early.
I want one of our three qb's next year to just become a qb ninja and slay souls of other big ten teams.
But in reality I just want to see progression. A red shirt for Devin would be nice, but as talked about numerous times on this site before...we really don't know what he will do when he gets here. If he compares directly to Vince Young, it would be impossible to keep him off the field.
Hurray for QB Depth!
Eh, if he compares directly to Vince Young he should definitely see a red shirt. Since Vince Young was redshirted, after all.
lower PAD LEVEL plus less LIKELY TO MURDER PEOPLE....
Michael, you don't just come to Las Vegas and talk to someone like Moe Greene like that!
I'm Moe Greene!
"I made my bones when you was datin' cheerleaders!"
Red Shirted because of Major Applewhite. Thats right. Good call! Or maybe it was Chris Simms...I can't rememeber
i doubt dg is polished as a QB. one extra year couldn't hurt, but then again, rich rod needs to make a bowl next year to keep his job, and with that defense...
and then (sort of) decide for yourself. DG should redshirt, playing a freshman QB almost never gives you an advantage
DG has a pretty fundamentally sound release that can get better. he's definitely a more natural thrower of the ball already than vince young or terrelle pryor have become.
in that regard i think he has the potential to be more daunte culpepper than the aforementioned two. he's 6' 5" and quite athletic but i think he's sorta big and already seems to have filled out much of his frame. on film he's got some shake to him but he's not so much as "quick" as VY or a "glider" like TP. i don't see him running for first downs on a regular basis in college. pocket passer with occasional ability to run + 3/4 release + real qb mechanics = culpepper.
which is why i'm really excited by his focus on mechanics. he really seems to put great spin and drive on the ball.
i think he's due for a redshirt to learn the offense
I saw one game of Gardner's carrer and that was the state championship game and in that game he did not impress me, although I heard from other people that watched some of his other games that he was a great one man show. So i don't know what to expect