Not sure Braylon would be in a position to cast stones at Stonum...
no, YOU'RE off topic
Not sure Braylon would be in a position to cast stones at Stonum...
Ignoring the fact that numbers on the back of jerseys don't matter to 90% of people, lets think about how this is going to play out.
Gallon is going to have an excellent year (1300 yards and 10 TDs or whatever) wearing #21. Within the next couple years Darboh, Chesson, Harris, or Campbell will wear #21 and do the same. The # will quickly become iconic (well, MORE iconic for those of us who watched Desmond), just like #1 is/was. Great for younger fans - cool for older fans who remember the original.
Eventually, Michigan could have #1 and #21 lining up at WR and your eyes are going to be trained to find those guys and be excited about them running down the field. I mean - you guys do remember that the #1 jersey-as-honor thing was invented by Carr right? Late in his career at that. It doesn't take long to change perceptions and associations in people's minds.
The argument about developing your own identity with a 'new' number is fine - people can still do that if they want. But if you believe in "the team x 3" then isn't it cooler that the # is the legacy, not the player?
In 10 years no one is going to complain about this. The negative consequences are minimal. Michigan is doing something different, tradition-honoring, and potentially a selling-point for some recruits. It seems like crotchety anti-change to complain about something like this.
My only concern is over-doing it. The honor will be diminshed if a dozen guys have them every year, but maybe there's a way to keep #1 (and persumably #2) in a higher echelon.
Do I love seniors changing numbers? No, not really - I'd rather it was young guys like Funchess or Ross -- but 10 years from now I probably will want to know who gets the number each year. Recruits will covet the honor just like Braylon wanted #1. Copy-cat programs following Michigan's lead will be numbering in the dozens by then.
I'm no fan of Dave Brandon, but this is a good idea (that he, presumably, approved.) Whoever thought of it deserves credit, but really it's just an extension of what we already had established with #1. That happened more organically (Braylon wanted it, Carr shrewdly used it as a carrot), but so what. Ultimately, it's good for Michigan - it emphasizes our tradition, strengthens our identity - It's a win.
stop changing all of the best players numbers. Jeremy Gallon is 10 and Funchess is 19.
In 2033, we're going to look back and say "Damn. Every single great WR we've had for the last 20 years all wore #21". Isn't Mario Manningham synonymous with 86? Why screw with that?
Yeah! And Braylon Edwards is 80!!! Right?
Michigan really needs to get back away from the idea that a player's uniform number describes any of his characteristics--e.g., skill, leadership, etc.--other than his position on the field. The uniform number is for identification purposes only. It is not a "reward," it is not a rating system so you can tell who is good and who isn't. At least it wasn't any of those things until one person a decade or so ago in a fit of skilled self-promotion insisted that it was.
But, in the end it is about the players, not us. How do we know that Gallon hasn't wanted that number from day one? Hemingway had it his first three years and Roundtree was given the honor last year. Gallon was #5 in high school and had no previous ties to #10. I won't argue that his lack of smile may come from the fact that he may view the #1 jersey as an even bigger prize. Would we be upset if he was awarded #1 as most seem to be about #21? Doubt it...
The players know who the greats are and strive to achieve as they did. We are not Team 134; they are. And the fact that they seem to embrace the legends numbers being given out as an honor is all that should matter. Congratulations to them.
Is that really true, though? The players don't look at each other's numbers on the field, do they? They know who is who. The fans are 100+ feet away from the action, and they are the ones looking at the numbers.
If Gallon wanted #21 (aside: why wouldn't somebody named Gallon want to be #10?), he should have been given it from day one after the uniform was put into circulation. If an incoming Freshman wants #21 next year, give it to him. Even if he is a punter. It is bothersome that there is an implicit message being put out that only some of our players are "good enough" to wear certain numbers.
Should have also has to wear a cowboy hat vs a helmet. It's an over-sized hat, it's funny.
"We are not Team 134; they are. And the fact that they seem to embrace the legends numbers being given out as an honor is all that should matter. Congratulations to them."
Well said Gary. Hoke has made honoring Michigan's storied history a point of emphasis, and this, IMO, is a great manifestation of that focus. The players seem to love it, and it is their team.
Although I'm not sure I want them all awarded every single year. It's a great concept and I'm glad players can be rewarded for their hard work yet held to the standards and expectations that come with the jersey.
We're in deep shit if Gallon is only held up to Roy Roundtree's standard.
I'm pretty sure another guy's name is on that jersey patch and that is probably the standard Gallon will hold hiimself to, which is the whole point of handing these numbers out.
21 has been worn by Roundtree and Hemmingway now, that's part of the number's legacy.
Someone needs to update 360 rosters and then report back when there is a finished product. Oh, and I want the legends patches on the jerseys as well.
how do you decide how to merit the award of certain jersey numbers by judging the contribution of the current and former wearer? I can see the argument on both sides, and I agree that certain numbers haven't gained legendary status yet only because the players who wore them haven't become eligible for HOF honors, either by the school, conference or nationally.
I mean we know certain Nos. are practically inviolate like 98 while No. 77 is already on its own path to legendary status, and is now only worn by the most deserving players who play a specific position.
No. 2 hasn't achieved that status because the player who is most remembered for wearing it, is still active and not eligible for post-career honors --yet.
No. 1, however, remains less mythical than No. 98 but with a history of its own and a certain standard applied for the player who earns the right to wear it.
In the same way that Anthony Carter made No. 1 special, Denard made No. 16 special. But you could say the same for a lot of guys through the years, No. 4 worn by Jim Harbaugh, No. 10 worn by both Gallon and Brady. Even No. 20 worn by Mike Hart.
There are certain Michigan greats on the Oline who are in the NFL HOF, and their numbers aren't given legendary status at Michigan. I'm thinking of Dan Dierdorf, Reggie McKenzie and others from Bo's teams.
I mean will there come a time when certain alums are remembered as legends not so much for what they did while at Michigan but for what they did afterward in the pros? I'm thinking of Brady and Harbaugh. Does honoring them as Michigan legends impinge on the use of their former number by current players, just because we have a nostalgic recollection about past performers?
I love the legends jerseys idea, hate the implementation. They should be given to incoming players, not given to guys mid career or worst during their last season. At least they did it at the beginning of the season instead of onesie twosie like last year. I guess the silverlining is I can just squint real hard and imagine Jordan Kovacs is still our safety and bask in the warmth and comfort of that thought.
It's worth noting that #2 isn't currently assigned to any player on the roster. If they were going to make #2 a new legends jersey, this would be a good year to do it.
Fearless rumormongering: the Oakland Raiders have a bye October 20, and Michigan has a home game against Indiana on October 19. I'm sure Dave Brandon would love to spice up an otherwise middling matchup by making it Woodson legends day...
So much MGoBitching... Does it really matter what numbers the players wear? Honestly, I couldn't care less as long as they WIN. The primary reason behind this is to teach the Michigan fan base and players about the schools' history and those that came before them; something that was practically forgotten during the Rich Rod era.
It also helps in selling the program to new recruits which is something Hoke is adamant about. We remind these young men about the greats who came before them and did it FIRST, and it's an honor to wear their numbers so they can carry on that legacy.
New legends will be made, sure, but it's okay to remind them of the Giants in Maize 'n Blue who fought before them and made it all possible.
I'm no fan of this for the simple reason that it prevents players from forging their own identity and instead mashes them into someone elses. 10 years from now NOBODY is going to remember who wore the legends patch but every Michigan fan worth a damn can name their favorite #7 QB (mine is Leach), their favorite #1 WR (Carter for me) or their favorite #2 DB (well obviously).
I dont think it's fair to the current players - honor or no honor. And the pressure on a 20 year old kid to accept this "honor", whether they like it or not, must be enormous. They would come off as increadibly selfish if they turned it down.
This all started with JR Hemmingway who was already wearing the number 21 to begin with. I was really hoping Gallon was going to stay 10 this year. I guess that's not the case.
MDen starts selling #10 jerseys and 2-3 weeks later he's wearing #21. ...why don't they think these things through?
Didn't Hoke say the players don't have to accept the numbers? Much easier said than done I'm sure. Especially when Hoke is standing there with the jersey in hand looking you in the eye about to shake your hand.
I loved #19 on Funchess. Now that will never be a legends uni. I hated this from the start. If they're going to do the whole Legends thing, have them wear it for one game or something. It's not fair to the players and it's not fair to me!
"it's not fair to me!"
LOL. What? Explain how it isn't fair to YOU.
It doesn't bother me as much as others are bothered by it. But I do think it clearly hurts the development of future legends numbers. Would like to see them only do this for one game a year where all the specific players wear those jerseys.
For religious types, they say the Apocalypse will come when present tribulations lead to the ending of this age and the coming of God's Kingdom. That the discord inherent within human nature will eventually lead to catastrophic events, and that finally God will show up to save every good person and judge away the bad. Well this little thread here is a pretty clear Sign of the Apocalypse. How so many of you can take something as benign as Michigan’s effort to honor past players in a unique way for their great contributions, and shit all over it, really opens a little window into just how pathetic we are as a species.
Yeah telling a kid that if he kicks ass for Michigan then 20 or 30 years later Michigan will honor him not just with a couple hours of ceremony but with an entire season’s worth of having a young star wear his number really will have a massive negative impact on recruiting….
Yeah egocentrism is king and everyone needs their own identity and number. God forbid two Michigan greats past and present share the honor of the same number, so that when it is dedicated 20 years later they can both be honored…
Football can’t get here soon enough. Even as Michigan has enjoyed probably the highest improvement trajectory in terms of “program building” under Hoke over the last 3 years, still, the negativity on this board has reached epic proportions the last several months with endless snide comments and calls for Brian to return the neg posbang to satiate you little devils.
Man. Take a look in the mirror. Realize most of the people you are negging, be they players, coaches, A.D.s, or fellow fans on this site – ARE YOUR BROTHERS. They love the same things you love and are happy to see the same things you are happy to see. AND THAT INCLUDES LEGENDS JERSEYS!
Go Blue and live and let live you cretins!
I'd keep the program, since it is a great way to honor the past, but I'd tweak it so that the number switch is for one game only. Give each number its own home game, do the same production you do now during the game, and then next week the player gets his number back.
I really like this idea! then there would be a limit to the #'s...6-7-8, depending on how many home games there are!
Bleh. I don't mind so much, but there should be a lot fewer numbers as part of this program. It should be the three Heisman trophy winners, the #1, and the former President of the United States. And that's it. If you add in record breakers and Heisman finalists, then you come to guys like Mike Hart, Denard Robinson, and Jim Harbaugh. There are only 99 numbers to begin with. And what about a guy who has won Super Bowls like Tom Brady? Not every one can be special, and the essence of college football is that every generation of players makes a new set of stories with their numbers. Almost every team has a legend of some sort.
Gallon was not going to make #10 a Legend's Jersey....ever heard of Tom Brady, Avery is not going to make the #5 a Legend's Jersey! The only # that I'm a little sad about is the Funchise! I don't know of any other 19's in history that are at his level.....but its alright!
As to the Legend's program, I think its a creative way to honor great athletes! The standard at Michigan is so high, we gotta remember that even Kovacs was the baseline of expectation for Michigan defensive players! Mandich, Dierdorf, Wheatley, Brady, Mike Hart, Cannavino ... guys who are legendary, havn't been classified as Legends......
A legend is one who transcends the program, the only guy in this era to fit that model is Denard, maybe.
Other possible Legends
but not a legend (IMHO).
Why should we forget Braylon again?
1.) I doubt they were forced into changing numbers.
2.) To be able to be mentioned in the same sentence with these players that are honord is a legacy in its own.
3.) If a player had great year why cant they combine names on the jersey. Example: The Edwards Carter jersey for #1.
4.) Maybe wearing a legands jersey is just a part of a guys legacy.
19 is my fave #. Now Funch has a boring regular TE #.
Pointless? Tom Brady's number is pointless?
Serious? I like Gallon and all but people aren't going to think of Gallon when they see #10, they're going to think of Brady.
Did anyone throw a fit when we deprived Braylon Edwards and Mario Manningham from making #17 and #86 "legendary"?
Is pretty fuckin legendary.
I am completely fine with this the same as I was last year. Raises awareness of the past players and I think players are excited at the chance to wear them. Hoke has clearly shown a willingness to give it to a wide range of players from seniors who've worked hard (Avery, Moore) to seniors who've produced well on the field (Kovacs, Gallon, Roundtree) to younger players that show great potential (Ryan and Funchess) and Morgan got one who is a solid contributor but not quite the hype of the other guys.
The hand wringing over this is pretty funny at this point. Your number 10 jersey can still be your Gallon jersey. He did wear that number when you bought the damn thing.
Who will get the 98 jersey when it is rolled out at UTL 2?
I am guessing Beyer.
That would be...legendary!
Ok these are lame now. Last year it was okay for some reason (except it wasn't, Kovacs to 11 was, weird) but now it's getting old. Gallon is No. 10 dammit.