FWIW ESPN's College Football Final Crew criticizes Borges.

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September 23rd, 2012 at 1:57 PM
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wolverine1987
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FWIW ESPN's College Football Final Crew criticizes Borges.

It's not my intention with this thread to start another who's fault was it thread about last night. Perhaps I'm naive in that, but I'm just pasing along that when I watched College Football Final, Rece Davis, Mark May and Holtz all agreed that in their opinion the offensive game plan called for way too much pocket passing from Denard, and they criticized Borges by name, particularly May. IMO May is wildly inconsistent and Holtz is a parody (I admit to liking Rece Davis) so that critique does nothing for me, but since it's a national show I thought I'd pass it on. As for me, 6 turnovers does not necesarily equal poor game plan, but WTF. I think there may be some strategy changes made in the bye week.

"Everyone gets dumped Gabe. Let me give you some advice: a little coverup on your Adams Apple will make it appear smaller. Which will make you appear less like a transvestite." 

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September 23rd, 2012 at 1:59 PM | It was both Borges and (Score:5 Normal)
ThadMattasagoblin
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It was both Borges and Denard's fault.

903 wins most in college football

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:08 PM | Agreed (Score:5 Normal)
dothepose
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The Vincent Smith thing is probably what I'm most angry about with Borges. Denard, I'm just upset after all these years he still can't plant his feet when he throws.

You know, Dude, I myself dabbled in pacifism once. Not in 'Nam of course.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:30 PM | regarding smith... (Score:5 Normal)
4godkingandwolv...
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MGoPoints: 3489

... I didn't have a problem with the call. Smith just made a terrible throw. Receiver was open.

I guess you could blame borges for putting smith in the position, but I'm sure they practiced it all week and they felt good enough to go with it. Just needed better execution.

Do Something. If it works, do more of it. If it doesn't, do something else.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:38 PM | Everyone loved it when Smith (Score:5 Normal)
joeyb
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Everyone loved it when Smith threw the TD pass against Minnesota last year and they would have loved the play call if it had worked. The receiver was open and it was a bad throw. You take that risk with trick plays. However, to blame Borges for that game is ridiculous. We were moving the ball just fine all night and there is nothing that Borges can do to prevent interceptions except not call passing plays. If that happens, then we aren't going to move the ball anymore.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:56 PM | Thank you. How can you blame (Score:5 Normal)
willywill9
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Thank you. How can you blame turnovers on play calling? Losing a fumble?



We out gained ND and we actually outplayed them. We were in the game until the end of the 4th.

Touchdown Michigan!

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:56 PM | "You take that risk with (Score:5 Normal)
TheGhostofYost
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"You take that risk with trick plays."  That's exactly the point.  It was not a risk we needed to take at that point in the game.  Our offense was moving the ball just fine.

September 23rd, 2012 at 3:17 PM | not in the redzone (Score:0 Overrated)
September 23rd, 2012 at 4:01 PM | No (Score:5 Normal)
TIMMMAAY
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We weren't struggling in the red zone yet, not at that point. It was an unnecessary call, and it cost us huge. There were many more chances to put this game away, and I thought the rest of the game plan was ok, if a little long pass heavy. Unfortunately, this one is on Denard. He's my favorite player by a long shot, but he just had a bad game.

not just "douchey" MGoBlog user, but now TRUSTED MGoBlog user

September 23rd, 2012 at 5:22 PM | exactly (Score:1 Normal)
TaiStreetsMyHero
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the first redzone possession was ruined by the first pitch run, which was meant to set up the pitch pass. but since the pitch run failed so miserably, it didn't set up the pitch pass at all.

why force the play call? unnecessary trickery ruined first two redzone possessions, which set the tone for offensive incompetence. 

I do it for my love of the Streets

September 23rd, 2012 at 5:38 PM | Borges (Score:5 Normal)
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2783

overthought both of the first red zone possessions.  First and ten at anybody's ten yard line, and Denard Robinson in your quarterback, you run Denard on first down, run him on second, and if by some miracle he is not in the end zone yet, you run him on third down or roll him out with a run pass option.  I am just going to say it like it is, Borges is being stubborn and he is costing us big time.  He called terrible games against MSU and Iowa last year, Alabama was what it was but last night was an abomination.  He is so obsessed with making Denard a pocket passer that he is not accepting the fact that we don't need him to be to win games against almost everybody we play.  It's true that Denard ran a fair share last night, but everytime Denard is put in a position to be a drop back passer, Borges is doing a disservice to the team and to Denard.  If he wants to call that kind of game, the team is actually better off playing Bellomy.  He is trying to fit a round peg into a square hole and it is not working, and it is really wearing on my patience.

September 23rd, 2012 at 5:45 PM | not that black and white (Score:5 Normal)
TaiStreetsMyHero
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I don't think borges called a terrible overall game against either MSU or Iowa, and no gameplan against Alabama would have made my soul happy.

I would say that in the iowa game, he stalled our offense by switching to gardner seemingly every time denard started clicking. In this game, the failed trick play was extremely costly.

But to say that his overall gameplan in this game, or iowa, etc. were bad is too simplistic, and ignores the fact that we had 300 yards of offense even after 6 turnovers.

I do it for my love of the Streets

September 23rd, 2012 at 6:03 PM | The 6 (Score:4 Normal)
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
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turnovers did not just happen independent of Borges.  He is insisting that Denard do something he cannot do.  He is placing him in positions where failure is all but assured.  I do not know why he is insisting on doing this.  Look at it like dunking a basketball, you can either do it or you can't.  Denard cannot read defenses.  Denard is a very smart, charming, articulate individual with what appears to be a heart of gold and ridiculous wheels, but he cannot do what is being asked of him.  It is not a secret or a mystery anymore.  So, either adapt to your quarterback or change quarterbacks, but don't keep banging your head against a brick wall.  Doing the same thing over and over again with the same conditions present and expecting a difficult result = insanity.  Enough.

September 23rd, 2012 at 9:04 PM | Well said. (Score:1 Normal)
champswest
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They should know by now what Denard can and cannot do.

"I hate losing more than I like winning." - Zack

September 24th, 2012 at 11:46 AM | I don't buy "Denard can't do it" (Score:2 Normal)
Wolverine 73
Joined: 08/03/2009
MGoPoints: 563

He did it brilliantly against Ohio State.  He did it well against Nebraska.  There was every reason to think this year would be a great leap forward in his passing.  BUT Denard doesn't seem to be able to do it well on the road.  It is hard to think of a road game against a good opponent in which he has played well since teams wised up and realized you have to make him beat you with passing.

wolverine 73

September 24th, 2012 at 10:38 AM | Red Zone issues ... (Score:0 Flamebait)
September 23rd, 2012 at 6:29 PM | What????????????? (Score:0 Redundant)
September 23rd, 2012 at 5:10 PM | The Minnesota game was completely different (Score:3 Normal)
lilpenny1316
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We were up 14-0 already against a clearly overmatched team and at home.  You could run the risk then.  Doing this in a scoreless game against an impotent offense when points could be at a premium was stupid risk that didn't need to be taken.  

And we were not moving the ball fine all night.  We spent almost the entire second quarter throwing picks in our end of the field with an inaccurate passer.  As much as I disliked Carr, he was famous for not chucking the ball on the road on his end of the field.  The offensive gameplan was poor.

September 23rd, 2012 at 9:42 PM | Exactly the problem (Score:1)
Maize and Blue ...
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we were moving the ball fine and didn't need a trick play called at that time.  ND hadn't stopped our O on that drive so why put your 5'6" RB in that position.

September 24th, 2012 at 10:51 AM | Different Smith throws - it was an inexplicable call (Score:2)
robpollard
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Re the Smith part of your post, four things:

1) Minnesota does not have ND's defense. While I don't think ND's defense is great, one thing it does have is a good front 7 that bring pressure (as shown in their last two games). Vincent Smith is also short. So you are asking a RB, who very rarely throws, to throw the ball in the face of likely pressure. Not a recipe for good decision or execution.

2) It is always harder to complete a pass in the red zone, and in particular, within the last 10 yards as there is less space for the defense to cover.  Smith's pass last year was actually thrown last year from about the 23 yard line, about 10 yards further out than the pass against ND.

3) Last year, Dileo was completely wide open. If you look at Smith's pass, http://youtu.be/Q_1249Nr75I?t=8s, he just nicely lolli-popped it to him, which was doable b/c there was no one within 10 yards of Dileo (or within 5 yards of Smith). Against ND, while the WR was open, it would have taken a nice throw that actually led the player and had the proper amount of arc over a defender - not too much, not too little. Again, a tough throw for an RB.

4) Minnesota was Smith's first ever pass. Doubtful Minnesota would have been looking for it. However, he also threw a pass against Purdue later. So ND, if they did some scouting, would likely not have been as fooled by a Smith pass.

In short, it was very dumb playcall. All trick plays are risks, but that had too many factors working against it.

It only ends once. Anything that happens before that, is just progress.

September 24th, 2012 at 2:11 PM | This is the mindset that drives me crazy!!!! (Score:-1 Flamebait)
September 25th, 2012 at 11:49 AM | Flamers use Flamebait (Score:-1 Flamebait)
September 23rd, 2012 at 6:18 PM | My issue with the call was (Score:4 Normal)
DIABEETUS
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My issue with the call was that Borges called for a risky trick play on a 1st and goal when we had just marched the length of the field using the (mostly) non-risky Denard / Toussaint run. Save the trick play for later, it wasn't necessary.

Michigan: 903–315–36 (Best in NCAA)
vs Ohio State: 58-44-6
vs Notre Dame: 23-16-1
vs MSU:  68-32-5
vs B1G: 522-197-24
vs SEC:  20-8-1
vs PAC 12: 48-24-1
vs Big 12: 10-5-1<

September 24th, 2012 at 11:27 AM | Actually marched down (Score:3 Normal)
Brewers Yost
Joined: 07/14/2008
MGoPoints: 310

Actually marched down the field with the Pass.

Play by Play:

Gallon 8 yard Run

Denard 6 yard loss

Denard to Gardener 18 yard pass

Pass inc

Denard to Roundtree 9 yards Pass

Denard 2 yard run

Fitz 0 yard run

Denard to Roundtree 11 yard pass

Denard to Gallon 12 yard pass

Denard to Gardener 9 yard Pass

Denard 15 yard run

Smith int

So 59 yards passing and 19 yards Rushing

September 23rd, 2012 at 3:18 PM | Smith (Score:3 Normal)
KickRocksKid
Joined: 09/12/2011
MGoPoints: 18

They have run that play before with Smith to great effect. Teo just blew it up and forced a bad throw.

September 23rd, 2012 at 4:22 PM | execute the play (Score:5 Normal)
pbmd
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poorly executed by smith

don't be the guy who thinks the play call is good if successful but the same call is bad when unsuccessful

pbmd

September 24th, 2012 at 9:45 AM | Ya, smith has to realize with (Score:1)
redhousewolverine
Joined: 08/17/2010
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Ya, smith has to realize with Teo sprinting at him that a jump pass over Teo is not going to work. It's too risky a throw. Smith needs to set his feet on that throw so that way any miss hopefully goes long. If the defense reads the play-as Teo did-you tuck it and take the 3 yard loss. Poor judgment as much if not moreso than a poor play call. An unnecessary play call though.

"The unexamined life is not worth living." Socrates.

September 24th, 2012 at 10:33 AM | ND's defense moves well side to side (Score:-1 Overrated)
September 24th, 2012 at 12:00 PM | Yeah, lets ignore the fact (Score:2 Normal)
SWFLWolverine
Joined: 07/28/2010
MGoPoints: 479

Yeah, lets ignore the fact that ND's secondary is inexperienced and they were hoping to get them to bite on the run. Or the fact that it is a run/pass option and Smith made a bad decision compounded by a bad throw. I like the aggressive play calling, it sure beats getting beaten like a drum in a Rose Bowl because the defense knows what play you are running every time. Borges, I am sure, was trying to loosen up the front 7 and put pressure on an inexperienced secondary. Lets not forget the notion that sometimes you call a play to set up another play. Sometimes you succeed and sometimes you fail. This over analysis of every play ignores the fact that the offense put up nearly 300 yards of offense with 6 TOs...against a good front 7.  Every play does not have to be a home run...thinking like this is why Denard makes bad decisions...Live to Play another Down.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:14 PM | That's fair (Score:5 Normal)
Linnaeus
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On one hand, it's not unreasonable to expect a senior QB (and three-year starter) to make better decisions with the ball than Denard Robinson made. On the other hand, it's the coaches' job to recognize the skill sets their players have an adjust their game plans accordingly.

I recognize what Borges is trying to do with Denard, but maybe after this game, U-M will have to go with a more run-heavy offense (with maybe some short passes thrown in here and there). Of course, defenses will then stack against the run, but Michigan may just have to accept that and find a way around that.

Procrastination: Hard work often pays off after time, but laziness always pays off now.

September 23rd, 2012 at 5:17 PM | true that (Score:2 Normal)
umchicago
Joined: 02/05/2009
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i've been getting negged on the Denard thread for saying this same thing.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:05 PM | (No Subject) (Score:5 Normal)
OMG Shirtless
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It's not my intention with this thread to start another who's fault was it thread about last night.

You just did.  Way to go.  If you didn't want to start another thread about it, there are a few other places you could have put it.

I put up a tough front, but deep down I just want to be held.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:36 PM | Yeah, but (Score:5 Normal)
HartAttack20
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Yeah, but whose fault is it that he started the thread about whose fault it was?

I can only continue to reference the fact that I live in an onion factory.

September 23rd, 2012 at 4:41 PM | yo dawg....   (Score:2 Normal)
MGoSteelers
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yo dawg....

 

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:06 PM | (No subject) (Score:5 Normal)
State Street
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September 23rd, 2012 at 2:51 PM | that is one ugly predator or (Score:-1 Flamebait)
September 23rd, 2012 at 2:06 PM | I have a hard time blaming (Score:5 Normal)
MGoKereton
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I have a hard time blaming Borges. Denard has shown through 3 games he was a better passer and completely regressed this last one. This entire game was lost by him, and he knows it.

Lived the Dream. 2008-2012

September 23rd, 2012 at 6:10 PM | He is a better passer (Score:2 Normal)
triguy616
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The thing is, he looked fine when he had time to throw.  When he had ND in his face, instead of taking a sack or chucking the ball out of bounds, he threw it downfield.  

Hopefully during practice these two weeks Hoke will instruct the O line not to block and have Denard deal with all the pressure.  He's got to get that out of his head.  Stop trying to make plays like that.

Victors Valiant

September 23rd, 2012 at 10:59 PM | Thank you! (Score:1)
kevbow7
Joined: 07/03/2009
MGoPoints: 8

Denard did in fact throw some excellent passes when he had time.

I think that the changes Borges has made to the offense have begun to set in and Denard is so focused on an improved passing game he tries to pass more than any quarterback might in pressure situations.  He has a good arm and as long as he knows he has the freedom to run I think he will more quickly know when to run vs. throw.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:08 PM | Disagree...I thought it was a (Score:5 Normal)
Schembo
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Disagree...I thought it was a well balanced game plan. I can't fault Borges for poor throws. It is concerning that DR doesn't throw the ball away enough when there is nothing there. I think Borges could take some blame for that though.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:26 PM | People have criticized (Score:5 Normal)
aiglick
Joined: 11/27/2010
MGoPoints: 1442

People have criticized Denard's mechanics as a passer and those posters would be much more knowledgable about passing mechanics than me.

My biggest concern is the judgement and knowing it is better to throw the ball away some downs than turn the ball over and give the opponent some momentum.

Denard can throw the ball he just has to make better decisions including when to know when to fold the hand he is dealt. His other option would be to use his legs (part of his dynamism as a player) in those situations where it is pass but no player got open.

Here's hoping for a bright future. This team does try hard and I will continue to support them.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:47 PM | Denard plays with a lot of (Score:3 Normal)
Schembo
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Denard plays with a lot of emotion and I think he feels the pressure of carrying the offense on his shoulders more than other QB's do. That can lead to too much energy and/or anxiety then what you would typically want your QB to feel. It almost seems to manifest itself in later starting games than the normal noon starts. It would be nice to establish a run game early to take some pressure off him, but usually he is the running game.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:55 PM | Agreed (Score:5 Normal)
Go Blue6240
Joined: 09/08/2012
MGoPoints: 146

but as a senior he should know better by now and be able to adjust accordingly to any game time.  I think he forces throws a lot to try and create something for the offense, but it'd be interesting to see how the offense would do without him forcing anything, take a sack or throw it away and move on.  I'm interested to see how he improves after this game, I think he'll come back strong against Purdue but will never be an elite QB until his football IQ and decision making improves on the field.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:08 PM | The bottom fell out... (Score:1 Normal)
KAYSHIN15
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When that HB pass called. Denard was on fire and the 2 Guns INT broke the offensive rhytm..

Reporter: “Did you visit the Parthenon while in Greece?”
Shaquille O’Neill: “I can’t really remember the names of all the clubs we went to.”

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:09 PM | lolwat? one play doesn't (Score:4 Normal)
david from wyoming
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lolwat? one play doesn't break an offense for the rest of the game.

Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th

I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:11 PM | It sure looked like it did. (Score:5 Normal)
AmaizeingBlue
Joined: 09/01/2010
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It sure looked like it did. We marched down the field with no problem passing the ball. Then the next 4 passes were interceptions.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:24 PM | So you're saying we moved the ball running (Score:4 Normal)
M-Wolverine
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But when it stalled and we had to pass we threw an interception. But it didn't stop us from moving the ball.

I don't even know what to say to people who think one play in the first half "breaks" an offense.

And really, if we had kept running it and didn't score, everyone would be like "why you so Debord?!?!" People love what works. Don't try anything "Too Conservative!" Try something "Why you do that then?!" Can't win with people unless you win (and with Michigan fans, only if you're doing so perfectly).

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:31 PM | I don't know if we watched (Score:5 Normal)
AmaizeingBlue
Joined: 09/01/2010
MGoPoints: 1344

I don't know if we watched the same game. On the drive with the HB pass we drove 70 yards down the field mostly by passing. I believe Denard was like 5/6 passing the ball on that drive. Vincent Smith interception, boom Denard throws 4 straight intercsptions. I'm not saying that the hb pass took Denard out of rhythm, but something sure as hell did. One way or the other the offense stopped working after that drive.

September 23rd, 2012 at 2:38 PM | Correlation does not equal (Score:4 Normal)
david from wyoming
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Correlation does not equal causation. Many things play into the outcome of football plays/drives/games. Making the claim that one busted play significantly altered the outcome of the next X plays is pretty silly if your best justification is just your gut.

Are you a park ranger at Yellowstone? Say hi to Yogi Bear for me. - the_big_house 500th

I may not be a 70 year old man. - Herm

September 24th, 2012 at 9:35 AM | Correlation does not equal causation (Score:1 Normal)
lakeside
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MGoPoints: 1889

What a tired line. When you're trying to determine causation you often look for correlative patterns.

Man ball. Formerly, somebody else.

September 23rd, 2012 at 3:09 PM | The offense stopped working because Denard threw interceptions (Score:5 Normal)
M-Wolverine
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MGoPoints: 38778

Denard didn't start throwing interceptions because the offense stopped working. It's simple, really.

Though this is a funny thread to point out that we were marching it down the field with Denard passing....I wonder if he rolled out every play...

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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