Future Of Offensive Assistants?
Nuss pretty much stated it flat out in the conference. "Heck, Daryl, Dan and Fred" mentioned specifically as being a "great staff". They get one year to prove themsleves. I am going to go ahead and guess there isnt going to be a harder working coach than Funk this year.
#GOBLUE
MOD EDIT: I will leave the OP to edit the body of this, but yeah, the title was misleading as nothing definitive was said regarding this. He said something more to the effect that he was excited to work with the current staff, but whether that staff remains current once he gets going as OC is another matter. - LSA
January 10th, 2014 at 2:52 PM ^
I'm mocking you because you're insinuating that you're offering more than opinion and I'm not, but you aren't/weren't. And now that I've clearly presented you with facts, your response is basically, "Those facts don't mean anything." You're clearly more a fan of your own opinion.
Since Mike Hart graduated, Michigan State is 57-23. Ohio State is 63-15. Michigan is 41-34. Doesn't it make sense that they would have more guys drafted? Wasn't Denard Robinson the only Michigan guy invited to the Combine last year? Does that mean every other position coach should be fired for not producing enough NFL guys? And on a related note, wouldn't that make it ridiculous that we just fired Al Borges when the position he's responsible for coaching (QB) was the ONLY one to produce a guy worth inviting to the Combine?
There *is* an excuse for why Michigan running backs didn't produce at All-Big Ten levels under Rich Rodriguez. Perhaps I should refresh your memory with such offensive line stalwarts as John Ferrara, Jeremy Ciulla, Perry Dorrestein... Or I should remind you that we had no consistent passing game in 2008 or 2009. Or I should remind you that despite Brandon Minor averaging 5.2 yards/carry and scoring a touchdown on slightly less than 10% of his touches, he only had 199 carries over his final two seasons...which is several fewer carries than Eddie Lacy and TJ Yeldon have received each of the last two seasons, seasons in which those guys have ceded a large role to their backups (Yeldon, Kenyan Drake, Derrick Henry, etc.). If Minor had maintained his production and been given 300 carries like Ka'Deem Carey has had the past couple years, he would have had 1,560 yards and 24 touchdowns.
Who decides the running back rotation? Not Fred Jackson. The head coach is the guy who makes decisions about who starts. Instead, Rodriguez played Vincent Smith, whose genetics prevented him from doing very much. Did Fred Jackson prevent the 5'6", 180 lb. Vincent Smith from being great? Or did Vincent Smith squeeze every ounce of production (blocking, running, and receiving) he could out of what God gave him?
Keep trying.
January 10th, 2014 at 6:59 PM ^
You're mocking me because you're an arrogant POS who thinks his opinion is valued more because he has his own blog.
That is also fact.
You can have your opinion OR you can disagree with mine. That's what discussion is about and what blogs and message boards are for.
But if you want to try and twist things to make you sound smart, then it's just immature and you're better than that.
The simple fact that you use Michael Cox as the example of Michigan's greatness at RB since Hart is a joke. Again, the "technically... and actually..." paragraphs are a joke, you just use them to distract the reader from the point.
A point that YOU haven't made since we started this discussion. You tried by saying Fred Jackson hasn't succeeded with Rich Rod guys...which was a nice shot.
But #1 - That's a poor excuse, they're still 4* type RBs, #2 Thomas Rawls and to some extent Justice Hayes have had career that refute that claim as well.
So go ahead, make another reason or excuse, I'd be glad to discuss...or maybe even agree with you. You've been around long enough on this board to know that if I'm wrong, I'll say it and there are PLENTY of times where someone has swung me (enter Will Ferrell voice).
But your reasonings don't even BEGIN to carry water. Like it's not even close.
I've mentioned facts, I've pulled the recent (actually now not so recent history), I've put the notion of Rich Rod system being the cause of shitty RBs to rest, I've brought up how I think the staff needs to get younger...I'll add another. Recruiting. IMO, Jackson isn't the recruiter that he used to be. That's your specialty, so maybe you can refute that and at least go 1-4 on the day.
January 10th, 2014 at 9:46 PM ^
I stopped reading when you started with the ad hominem attacks. If you can't handle talking about football without insulting the other person, then I'm not interested in taking part in the conversation.
January 10th, 2014 at 3:44 PM ^
A few things to point out
1. To point out Running Back production in 2008, 2009 and 2011 speaks to RichRod's offensive brilliance in 2 of those three years. Also, why not point out Running Back efficacy in 2012 and 2013 as well? Answer: Because such efficacy was not produced. Hence, you only point to 3 of a total of 6 potential years (08-13) of Running Back production, 2/3 of that is Rich/Rod offense. Thanks for helping point to RichRod's offensive impact on our run game.
2. "Michigan doesn't have a RB in the NFL" and to counter such fact you point to, which is grasping, a TRANSFER who left Michigan for a MAC school. So, by your "transfer guys are still our guys" rule, Oklahoma can claim Troy Aikman. Boomer Sooner!
3. Whether Ka'Deem was recruited by RichRod or not, we cannot deny RichRod has produced talent at the college level which may or may not translate to NFL level. To disallow RichRod to claim Ka'Deem is akin to saying that any coach who wins or produces with players who are not his own recruits is a suspect coaching talent. Obviously a questionable assertion.
Whether Nuss clashed with Saban, we're getting a guy who is getting replaced by Lane Kiffin because one of the most successful college coachs in history believes Nuss is a lesser offensive mind than Lane Kiffin.
January 10th, 2014 at 4:52 PM ^
- In 2008 Michigan went 3-9 and was ranked 81st in the country in offensive FEI.
- In 2009 Michigan went 5-7 and was ranked 66th in the country in offensive FEI.
- in 2011 Rich Rodriguez was employed by CBS.
Which two of those three years were evidence of offensive brilliance?
January 10th, 2014 at 5:25 PM ^
1. The poor offensive line in 2012 and 2013 accounts for much of the lack of production from the running back position. I'm not even going to waste time arguing this point, since it's well documented that the offensive line was terrible and any halfway intelligent person can realize the link between the OL and the running backs.
2. Thus the words "arguably false." Check them out. Reading comprehension is key.
3. Yours truly is not suggesting that Ka'Deem Carey be discounted from Rich Rodriguez. What I'm saying is that he doesn't get credit for recruiting him; Carey was simply on hand when Rodriguez arrived. The end re: Carey.
January 10th, 2014 at 7:01 PM ^
Maybe he'll get it when you say it.
I understand he likes the guy, I do too. And I know it's in somewhat of bad taste for me to say that I think Jackson should retire.
But if he has a problem with that...he should talk about THAT, not defend him with horrible counterpoints.
January 10th, 2014 at 11:13 PM ^
Saban may or may not think Nuss is a lesser offensive mind. There's speculation, but I have not seen any details attributable to Saban or Nuss as to what went down. That's a pretty shallow conclusion you've drawn. There are other possible, plausible reasons as to why Kiffin is in, and Nuss is out at Bama.
January 11th, 2014 at 12:49 AM ^
perhaps you mean not as malleable to the Saban way? That's certainly how many of the 'bama fans see it. That must be the answer if we grant them the same insight we grant ourselves.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:34 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 4:03 PM ^
I completely agree with you Mr. Yost, why are we living in the past and what has he accomplished in the past. It is clear as day that he has not produced anything in the past decade or since hart left. So Why keep him cuz he was once a good r/b coach. this isnt how it works in the real life, once you stop producing the goods another person replaces you. But Michigan doesn't do that and that is why their football program has suffered. we need to get rid of anyone that isn't producing at a high level. god, look at saban, letting Nuss go in my opinion not for performance issue, but because he believes there is something better out there. But only in michigan, do we keep people around cuz they produced 20 years ago. Forget that what did he produce to michigan in the last 3 year, nothing. So he isn't a good r/b coach, he needs to go. And we need to start looking at someone that can get the job done at a very high level, not caring if he has any michigan ties or not. He just needs to be ready to work hard and help kick start this program back up and produce some talent. If not i believe Nuss will fail and michigan will continue to be an average program. I beleive that each coach whether on offense or defense should be evaluated and whoever didn't do a good job should be let go. Cuz next season turns to be like this season or similar, I will only hold hoke responsible for it. He has a golden chance right now to fix things.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 1:38 PM ^
There is absolutely 0 certainty that Wheatley comes back to Michigan to coach RBs. He may, if the price is very high for a college position and he gets a nice title next to RB coach, such as associate head coach. But he won't be an OC here for the near future. And from his current NFL RB coach position, he could become an NFL OC, college OC, or even college HC if his position continues to perform.
January 10th, 2014 at 4:11 PM ^
...much bigger fish to fry and worse problems. Except for the RR scat regime, he still hauls in the talent and production is much more on the concepts and line, which he has nothing to do with. I just think he's long in the tooth, but not the panacea to any core issue.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:24 PM ^
As others mentioned, I don't think Nussmeier 100% committed to anything in this regard, but that aside, it is not unknown and I believe Nussmeier himself was inserted into the Alabama job without assistant changes, as I recall - I could be misremembering this, of course. I believe Cam Cameron was the sole offensive coaching change when he took the LSU position as well. I am sure there are other rather high-profile examples, but the larger point is that it has happened and in some cases with improved results.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:25 PM ^
Regarding DN's remainder of the staff, the topic came up with Sam Webb several times today, including just how good Wellman is as a S & C coach. Sam thought he was really good or Hoke wouldn't have hired him, but I am not sure I buy it. Wellman was an assistant until he was hired by Hoke.
Ditto for Funk.... some of his players turned out well, most notably Molk and Lewan, but Molk was a RichRod guy and Lewan split his time between the two coaches.
One of the positives from RichRod was the energy that Barwis brought to the table and which was evident during warmup drills before games. I don't remember having seen that since Hoke arrived.
Time will tell.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 1:53 PM ^
Yep, that pregame warmup drill energy was so awesome in 2010 that it led to stirring victories at home against Iowa, MSU, and Wisconsin. Oh, wait, we got whipped in those games.
What Sam actually said this morning about Wellman is that any talk of replacing him is pointless, because Hoke believes strongly in him. Sam didn't give an opinion of his own one way or the other about Wellman.
I'm a bit skeptical myself about the efficacy of our current S&C program, but it's hardly the case that under Barwis we manhandled other competitive teams physically.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:48 PM ^
This reminded me of the dissing that Mike Gittleson got when he left, in favor of Barwis, and it bothered me.... We did in fact, manhandle other competitive teams phsyically with Gittleson and there was alot of disrespect on this board.
January 10th, 2014 at 4:20 PM ^
Gittleson's techniques may have been out of step with the spread trends and need for skinny tall lineman, but it was Big Ten ready if not B1G ready. I was just rewatching the PSU game and seeing Michigan lineman getting blown off the line time after time was not just a technique/youth thing. It was just MANBALL without th MAN. Some of that may be physical immaturity, but guys weren't getting bigger and stronger as the year went on...next year will tell.
Put on 20 lbs immediately! Opposite Mugatu's advice.
January 10th, 2014 at 5:10 PM ^
You are correct about what Sam said. Andy Mignery was the party who lauded Wellman as an excellent coach and that we were lucky to have him.
I also agree with you about our guys not manhandling people under Barwis, but at least you saw a bit of spirit being displayed. Perhaps my feelings are being tainted by this past season, but I rarely miss a home game and show up early enough to watch the teams warmup, and there is a difference. Does it equate to better on-field performance? Not a clue.
January 10th, 2014 at 5:43 PM ^
until they puked. They were supposed to be in such great shape and RR would say they would have the stamina to take out teams. Yet over and over we lost leads late in the game. Barwis may have been great with the strength aspect. I don't agree with the conditioning. Both are important.
January 10th, 2014 at 3:27 PM ^
By that logic, every S & C coach (or any coach for that matter) would be "really good," otherwise they wouldn't have been hired. Sounds pretty dumb to me.
January 11th, 2014 at 1:02 AM ^
in the S&C business since 1996. Incidently, Wellman and Nussmeier crossed paths in 2003 while both were on the MSU staff.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:26 PM ^
Ok. He said they were great staff. If you remember, Hoke flat out said there will be no staff changes this offseason, and well you know how that ended... Anyways, it means nothing in terms of job security for those offensive coaches. The fact he called them great guys rather than giving a public commitment to them actually seems more like bad news for them than good...
January 10th, 2014 at 1:29 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 1:30 PM ^
Hoke did not flat out say there will be no staff changes.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:33 PM ^
Kinda like how Nuss didn't actually flat out say he will be retaining the offensive assistants, right? Kinda was my point to sarcastically use the term "flat out" in the same, exagerratingly assumptive way as the OP. Clearly, it failed.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:56 PM ^
I've had the same problem lately--it's not a good sign when the board becomes sarcasm-proof; this stuff is so common on the board that people (like me) assume you mean it.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:33 PM ^
The people who would fill vacated positions also do this for a living - do you honestly believe that they won't look at how staff changes might be handled before uprooting a family to take a job. I'll point to the way Fitz was moved aside - quietly, professionally, and don't think the freshmen running backs didn't notice that as well. Let the program handle the details, and stop trying to view a press conference as a re-write of the commandments.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:31 PM ^
There's no point to DB, Hoke, Nuss, or anyone else saying that they're mulling over someone's job. For them it's best to just say that things are great and then make any changes before they're announced.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:36 PM ^
to name each and every offensive assistant and call them great if you are not going to keep them.
DB specifically left out AB in his statement after the season for a reason.
Of course, if Tom Brady says he is dropping everything to come be an assistant they will jump on that...but that is stating the obvious.
This staff is staying..get used to it.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^
I tend to think this is all true, being in the west coast you hear things a little more straight forward!
January 10th, 2014 at 1:49 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 1:56 PM ^
Where? What places? Random internet guy comments?
January 10th, 2014 at 2:27 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 8:26 PM ^
I ask because I'm in Redondo Beach and would like to find something to pay attention to.
January 10th, 2014 at 1:47 PM ^
In seriousness I assume this really means "I'm going to say nice things about people who still have jobs until I get a chance to get acclimated and evaluate them". If you were going for a sacrificial lamb, it would be odd to pick Borges instead of some or all of the assistants in the first place (The Schafer scenario was different - he was the outsider on an otherwise intact staff. Borges had been with Hoke as long as most of the assistants).
January 10th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 2:03 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 2:06 PM ^
I think we're massively jumping to conclusions here. I've been in his situation a few times in my career. Transferred into a problem area and asked to turn things around and the LAST thing you want to do is give any signals from the get-go that you're going to clean house. Cause what happens is your good associates (they one's you'd want to keep) all leave because they can get other jobs and your stuck with having to replace them while trying to evaluate the ones that stayed.
If i was Nuss I'd just want everyone to feel as "safe" as humanly possible while I evaluated what I had. He might come to the conclusion that the problems last year were in different areas than we think on the outside looking in. And he also may not have had time to contact and evaluate interest from the people he would want so before he creates openings I'm sure he'd want to know he had better replacements ready to go.
Just like Hoke did.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:26 PM ^
If you can reason that out, then how the hell could you not see that when Hoke used the word "anticipate" regarding staff changes, or publicly supported Borges after poor showings, that he was saying what needed to be said?
Run-on sentence I know, but still. I just don't get that.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:32 PM ^
Because I thought that Hoke had linked his train to Borges and was unwilling to unteather it no matter what. I am still in the camp that DB played a role in this change (although we'll never know for sure) so perhaps if unforced Borges would still be in place.
In short I'm giving Nuss the benefit of the doubt I didn't give Hoke. And also for the record I was wrong about Hoke and have said so.
January 10th, 2014 at 2:43 PM ^
January 10th, 2014 at 3:07 PM ^
publically because of the Michigan mentality of keep our laundry in house. In fact, I remember being in B-School when we had a meeting with the Dean and he strongly suggested keeping any issues in-house and resolving it so that US News... do not hear about it.
January 10th, 2014 at 3:21 PM ^
I strongly suspect Hoke was behaving this way before he took the Michigan job. He would never have gotten his reputation as a good boss to work for, if he hadn't.
(Of course, it's possible he learned it when he was here the first time around.)
January 10th, 2014 at 3:05 PM ^
Time will tell and what he has to do. He won't ever be successful anywhere if he has substandard personnel to work with. I don't know that to be the case at Michigan but we'll find out.
I doubt that he is going to allow others to drag him down. The O-line was just horrible for the first 3/4 of the season. They were just bad the rest of the time. I still don't think it was because MIchigan doesn't have talent. Something wasn't working.
January 10th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^
There was a story on the front page I guess within the last year. It was about Borges and what were our contingency plans if he left. I don't remember who wrote it but I remember a brief mention how Coach Hecklinski wanted to be an OC and should he be passed up if the opportunity arises here then he'd be pissed. Does anyone else remember this? It wasn't a forum post.
January 10th, 2014 at 3:09 PM ^
that anyway you cut it, Nuss is likely out of here in 2-4 years and Heck is next. By that I mean, Michigan is successful and Nuss is plucked to be a HC somewhere or Michigan is unsuccessful and everybody gets canned.
January 10th, 2014 at 3:24 PM ^
My guess is that Nussmeier will be gone after 1 year, maybe 2 max.