Fun with BBall History

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February 17th, 2012 at 11:01 AM
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AC1997
AC1997's picture
Joined: 09/19/2008
MGoPoints: 888
Fun with BBall History

Since it looks to be a light day of posting from Ace and Brian I thought I'd try to come up with an interactive Forum post.  This past week of hype building up to the huge game with OSU tomorrow has made me reflect on where we are as a basketball program.  We are clearly fortunate to have Beilein in charge of the program as we head into another tournament appearance, could contend for the conference title with a win on Saturday, and have two highly ranked recruiting classes lined up already. 

So what would have happened if we hired Beilein years earlier?  More specifically, if you look at the players who languished through the Ellerbe "let's hope we don't committ a crime during a TV timeout" era and the Amaker "let's pass the ball around aimlessly for 30 seconds" era - who would have been the best fit in the Beilein system?

My answer - At first I thought Daniel Horton would be my pick because having a point guard who can shoot from anywhere would have been great, but I think the offense works just as well with a pass-first PG.  So the guy I picked was Lavell Blanchard.

Having him as a slightly undersized PF seems like a dream scenario in this system - he was a tenacious rebounder, could shoot from outside, and wasn't a liability on defense.  In many ways he was Zach Novak only three inches taller.  What could have been.....

Who else can you think of? 

AC-1997

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February 17th, 2012 at 11:10 AM | Dani Wohl (Score:1)
VectorVictor05
Joined: 03/30/2009
MGoPoints: 286

Just missed each other....

February 17th, 2012 at 11:13 AM | But for serious... (Score:1)
VectorVictor05
Joined: 03/30/2009
MGoPoints: 286

A healthy Les Abram on the wing and Chris Hunter in a Pitssnogglian "shooting center" role would've been nice to see.  The lack of development of Hunter (and Petway, Harris, Sims to a slightly lesser extent) during Amaker's tenure was unfortunate to say the least.

February 17th, 2012 at 11:16 AM | Pitssnogglian! (Score:0 Overrated)
February 17th, 2012 at 1:36 PM | There wasn't much (Score:1)
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 2857

there to develop.  Not that Amaker did a lights out job at developing players, but there were one or two recruiting classes in there that were comically overrated.  Petway reached his ceiling the first time he set foot on the floor.  With Sims, you simply can't teach coordination.  Harris was just one dimensional.  Amaker's use of Abram (a player I think would close to useless in Beilein's system) was dissapointing.  I think Horton would have struggled  getting to tbe basket off the pick and roll.  Hunter would have been deadly.  I think Robinson Jr. could have thrived on some backdoors. 

Those were very lean years.

 

February 17th, 2012 at 4:01 PM | I dunno man...I've re-read (Score:2 Normal)
VectorVictor05
Joined: 03/30/2009
MGoPoints: 286

I dunno man...I've re-read your post and literally disagree with everything you just wrote.

Petway - isn't him reaching his ceiling so quickly an obvious indictment of Amaker's ability to develop his skills not related to raw athleticism?

Sims - Look at what he did in the D-League (same goes for Petway).  Coordination, although not a strength, wasn't really his issue.  He was just never taught to play like a big man which is something I'm Bacari Alexander is doing (look at Jordan Morgan).

Harris - OK I guess, but isn't a coaches job to take 18 year olds and make them more than one dimensional.  He was a great shooter that unfortunately had to play PG in Amaker's dribble around offense.

Abram - Useless? Are you going to back that up at all? He was a long wing player who was a good to great shooter and a great free-throw shooter.  He's Hardaway minus a bit of athleticism and a more consistent shooter.

Why would Horton struggle on the pick & roll?  I can sort of see it because he's not as quick as Burke and shorter than DMo...but he was a helluva player.

There has to be something to say about Amaker's ability to develop when his high recruiting classes were overrated after the fact right?

February 17th, 2012 at 11:45 AM | Graham Brown... (Score:2)
Naked Bootlegger
Naked Bootlegger's picture
Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1223

...settting massive screens in the typical Beilein offensive sets of the past two years would've been awesome to watch.  Morgan's good at it, but Brown would have transcended greatness.   I will happily take a Graham Brown-type player on my roster in any era of UM hoops.

February 17th, 2012 at 11:23 AM | Air Canada!! haha (Score:1)
jka347
Joined: 01/13/2011
MGoPoints: 109

Air Canada!! haha

February 17th, 2012 at 11:26 AM | jerod ward (Score:1)
JCV16
Joined: 06/29/2011
MGoPoints: 472

6' 9'' shooter, came in with huge buzz.  Beilien would've probably gotten more out of him.

Tremendous!

February 17th, 2012 at 11:28 AM | Technically I think Ward is (Score:3 Normal)
Mfan2000
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7988

Technically I think Ward is from the wrong era

February 17th, 2012 at 11:30 AM | Ward played under ellerbe (Score:0 Flamebait)
February 17th, 2012 at 11:31 AM | not me (Score:1)
Mfan2000
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7988

not me

February 17th, 2012 at 11:32 AM | Was the #1 player in the (Score:1)
VectorVictor05
Joined: 03/30/2009
MGoPoints: 286

Was the #1 player in the country coming out of HS - not sure Beilein couldn't done much more as the biggest issue was a couple major knee injuries.  Just never fully recovered.  If healthy though...watch out.

February 17th, 2012 at 6:40 PM | Ward (Score:1)
MGoSoftball
MGoSoftball's picture
Joined: 10/18/2010
MGoPoints: 3664

was a head case (IMO)

From the Red Cedar Message Board:  "God hates us."  Yes He does Lil Bro, yes he does.  Everyone hates you.

February 17th, 2012 at 11:27 AM | Jamal Crawford, he would have (Score:2 Insightful)
Mfan2000
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7988

Jamal Crawford, he would have been Darius Morris times about 3

February 17th, 2012 at 11:36 AM | He kind of was right - (Score:2 Insightful)
VectorVictor05
Joined: 03/30/2009
MGoPoints: 286

He kind of was right - inversely?  DMo left after 2 years and Crawford only got to play like 2/3 of a season.  Go NCAA!

February 17th, 2012 at 12:00 PM | All I remember from the (Score:3 Normal)
WolverineHistorian
WolverineHistorian's picture
Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 5153

All I remember from the Crawford "era" was the student section wearing sweatbands in honor of him...

The Maize Rage didn't start until a couple years later. 

Go Blue!  Always!

http://www.youtube.com/user/WolverineHistorian

February 17th, 2012 at 12:03 PM | I've been watching M (Score:2 Insightful)
Mfan2000
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7988

I've been watching M basketball since the early 70's and Jamal Crawford is the most talented guard I've seen come through, edging out Ricky Green in my mind. On second thought, Jalen Rose has to be somewhere in the equation as well.

February 17th, 2012 at 12:13 PM | Crawford was certainly the (Score:1)
Bando Calrissian
Bando Calrissian's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 7967

Crawford was certainly the best I'd ever seen, Jalen included.  

Not going to lie, I rocked a headband every game that season in parks and rec basketball.  

February 17th, 2012 at 12:14 PM | Talent? (Score:1)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5150

I'll give you some room, because I don't know what your defining as talent, but Gary Grant might have something to say about that as well as Rumeal Robinson, Antoine Jobert, Louis Bullock and my all name team favorite Leslie Rockymore in for honorable mention.

For my money

1. G. Grant

2. J. Rose

3. R. Green

4. Rumeal

5. J. Crawford

5. Big drop off

6. Louis

7. The Judge

8. I know I'm missing some more...Jimmy King....Horton...etc...

 

February 17th, 2012 at 12:19 PM | ET (Score:2)
acnumber1
acnumber1's picture
Joined: 10/19/2009
MGoPoints: 2661

Agree with Gary Grant at the top.  I think Eric Turner belongs above the big drop off.

5 4 3 2 1 Touchdown!

Touchdown Billy Taylor!

Touchdown Billy Taylor!

February 17th, 2012 at 12:40 PM | I almost included Gary Grant, (Score:1)
Mfan2000
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 7988

I almost included Gary Grant, but I think he is just a notch below. While Grant was a better defender than Crawford, offensively I don't think it is even close. Grant left a little to be desired as a ball handler and shooter in comparison to Jamal Crawford. That being said, Gary Grant is one of my all time favs.

February 17th, 2012 at 1:23 PM | agree (Score:1)
Ziff72
Joined: 07/07/2008
MGoPoints: 5150

That's why I said I didn't know your criteria so I won't question your selections.   Crawford looked awesome but he had no real Michigan career it was so short and they accomplished nothing.

He was truly talented offensively, but if you can say there is such as thing as defensive talent.   Gary Grant was the prototype.  I loved watching him play d and lead the team. 

February 17th, 2012 at 12:41 PM | Well considering you could (Score:2 Normal)
j-turn14
j-turn14's picture
Joined: 09/11/2009
MGoPoints: 375

Well considering you could argue pretty easily that Crawford has had the best NBA career out of all those guys (the only one arguably comparable is Rose), I'd say you have underrated Crawford from a pure "talent" perspective. Obviously, since he only played 16 games or so, his career at Michigan didn't come close to any of those guys.

February 17th, 2012 at 4:52 PM | I would rank Crawford ahead (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 29067

I would rank Crawford ahead of Rumeal.  I think Darius Morris needs to be on there somewhere as well - his floor vision was phenomenal and he was an outstanding finisher around the basket for a guard.  Burke looks like a top 10 guy as well.  It must be said that defenses are much tougher today than they were 20-30 years ago, and teams get far fewer fastbreak baskets than they once did. 

February 17th, 2012 at 1:30 PM | The best memory I have of (Score:1)
UMfan21
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 1785

The best memory I have of Crawford was in a game he was bringing the ball up the court on a dead run and he threw a single bounce pass from half court to a streaking team mate for an easy basket.  It was timed perfectly and was just insane.   Watching Crawford play was the first time I really felt UofM might be on the upswing until Beilein's 2nd year.

February 17th, 2012 at 2:24 PM | Actually... (Score:2 Normal)
WindyCityBlue
Joined: 07/23/2008
MGoPoints: 511

...that was the first of the maize rage.  I remember being part of it - I still have my original maize rage shirt.  There was a newspaper written by one of the more prominant maize ragers at the time, called The Full Court Press.  Some us got to meet Crawford before one of the games.  The maize rage started smack dab in the middle of some of Michigan worst years.

February 17th, 2012 at 1:53 PM | I never did like Jamal Crawford (Score:1)
Michigan4Life
Joined: 07/29/2010
MGoPoints: 5709

though he's a very talented player, but he is a ball hog and a volume shooter scorer.

Before anybody say anything about Manny Harris as a counter argument, Manny has much higher assist rate and does more without scoring than Crawford who is a pure scorer.

February 17th, 2012 at 12:53 PM | Obvious suggestion is Obvious (Score:2)
JeepinBen
JeepinBen's picture
Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 9577

CWebb. One of the best passing big men ever. Imagine Smot, but bigger and better in just about every way. I dunno if CWebb had Smot's range, but the 3 is more prevalent among "Stretch 4s" now than it was, I bet Chris would have developed a 3 if he played for Beilein.

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

February 17th, 2012 at 1:10 PM | Someone embed this or (Score:-1 Offtopic)
February 17th, 2012 at 1:32 PM | I'd take Bernard Robinson (Score:1)
UMfan21
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 1785

I'd take Bernard Robinson Jr.

 

Blanchard and Abram were good picks too, but already taken.  I didn't see anyone pick BRob and he was really a beast, especially in that NIT run.

February 17th, 2012 at 2:51 PM | Everyone (Score:5 Normal)
ScottGoBlue
Joined: 06/02/2009
MGoPoints: 152

The best answer is "everyone". Every player would have done better under Beilein because he is. Ash superior in (1) developing talent and (2) game-planning than either Ellerbe or Amaker. We play an offense that just plain gets guys open, and in a variety of ways. Beilein has coached not only the famous 1-3-1 defense, but also stout man-to-man, 2-3 zone. Every player would have benefitted from playing for a much better coach.

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