Because this has never been brought up during a game before without them there. You make it sound like if they aren't around everyone forgets it happened.
also duty-free guys falling over and grabbing their shins
Because this has never been brought up during a game before without them there. You make it sound like if they aren't around everyone forgets it happened.
Yeah and I'm sure they won't talk about it even more with all five guys in the building. WTF.
I don't see why many people on this thread fail to grasp this.
I'm a Fab Five fan but I do not want to see them have their reunion at one of this team's tourney games. Doing so would be an absolutely selfish move on their part. Let this team have their time in the spotlight.
You are kidding yourself if you don't think that the media is goin to talk about nothing but the Fab Five the minute this team gets past the 2nd round of the tournament. That is ALL they will talk about, because the media just wants readers/viewers and people love to read/hear about the Fab Five. Them being there will change nothing.
However much the media talks about the Fab Five, don't you think the media will talk about them even more if they're actually in the building, re-united for the first time in 20 years?
You realize there is only so much you can say about the situation. It is all going to get brought up regardless. What do you think is going to get added on if they are in attendance? Do you really believe the media is going to leave out the bad parts if they don't show up? Keep dreaming.
to Ohio honoring Tressel at halftime of "the Game".......classless
So, I guess what I'm saying is lets have them courtside when we play Ohio next week!
It would be different from Ohio honoring Tressel because Jalen never mentioned from what I read the school having any involvement. It would just be them buying tickets and watching the games.
He actually said that he did take money during the fab five documentary
Yes five men attending a game on their own dollar at a neutral location is pretty much the same as carrying a man on your shoulders at halftime of the biggest home game of the year.
not to mention that it is 20 years after these players left Michgan rather than the ver next year following the scandal.
How is that even remotely the same thing? There would be no honoring of these guys by anyone, much less the school. They would buy their own tickets. They sure as shit wouldn't be carried off on anyone's shoulders at halftime. All this talk of these guys taking away from the current team's "moment" makes me sick. He wants to watch a basketball game, perhaps the first truly meaningful game with the potential to end in a championship since he wore a uniform, with his old teammates. He's not asking for a ceremony or even acknowledgement. Get off the man's johnson and let him watch a game. The only person anyone could potentially be the slightest bit nervous about showing up is Webber simply because of the no contact order, but for the rest, I hope they do go and see their alma mater reach a goal they never did.
This sums up my thoughts exactly. Why can't they just show up to the game? Why do they have to announce it? If they want to go to a tournament game awsome have fun. But don't make it about you and tell ESPN and the rest of the media so they can turn it into a circus.
I'm still somewhat unhappy with Jalen for using his company to make a documentary on the Fab Five and taking shots at Duke in the process along with. The tone Jalen took and some of commenets sparked some stupid war on Twitter between various people with ties to Michigan and Duke. The week before we played them in the tourney, way to give them BB material there Jalen.
The more Jalen talks the more I can't help by feel Jalen just likes seeing his name in print.
Taking shots at Duke? They were being honest about their feelings during their time at Michigan. You seem to have missed the point of the documentary.
As for when it aired, I guarantee that was decided long before anyone knew were had a chance to play Duke in the second round.
Sometimes you crush personal feelings for the good of others. I found the tone the 2011 documentary took be one that was improper and harmful to Michigan as institution. It wasn't the kind of thing that would help us rebuild a future program. It personally left me with the feeling that Rose uses his past association with Michigan to glorify himself, as opposed to seeking to benefit Michigan and the stability of the program. As such I prefer Michigan doesn't associate with Rose.
I'm sure that Rose didn't schedule or intend to have ESPN run the film when they did, but one of the first rules of sports is don't make comments that end up on bulletin boards, because sooner or later they do. Of course if you don't trash talk, you don't make headlines and that is what Rose wants.
I strongly suggest you google the definition of "documentary."
What makes Jalen awesome, particularly on the grantland webcasts but in the Fab 5 doc as well, is that he's willing to open up and reveal some bits about the strange life that modern athletes live, how it works, and how they experience and make sense of it. He's willing to be honest in a world where almost all athletes are guarded. He does love attention, but he's also willing to use that attention to share the inside world of elite athletes, which is an interesting thing that almost none of them do for themselves.
The grantland webcasts should be watched by anyone who's interested in the broader social life of sports and athletes. The episodes where he talks about why athletes go broke, what it's like to live in a wealthy neighborhood as a professional athlete, and how gambling on planes in the NBA works are essential viewing. The one where he steals Patrick Ewing's TV/VCR is just funny.
As for the Fab 5 documentary, I'm not sure how him explaining how his 17 year old self made sense of why Duke didn't want to recruit him, and what that made him believe about Duke at the time, hurt Michigan. It did provide light into the experience of those guys at a particular point in time, which was interesting and telling for how they viewed the world. But I don't see how that hurt Michigan.
You are spot on. Jalen is an awesome example of an urban Detroit kid that made it. Hes a breath of fresh air since he's so real and authentic. He used his scholarship at UM to get a journalism degree which has paid off with his role at ESPN and Grantland.
He's on NBA Countdown, ESPN Gameday, Numbers Never Lie and he has his own podcast. Oh and he's started a Charter school in Detroit to help urban kids realize their dreams (Jalen Rose Leadership Academy).
Pre-title game pep talk would be nice. They could tell them how they did things the right way and it would honor them to do what they never could - win a national title.
I disagree with this respectfully but strongly. This reminds me of the way Earvin Johnson attached himself to some of Michigan State's successful teams of the previous decade during their playoff runs, trying to portray himself as having been there supporting Michigan State all along--which he had not.
Perhaps some of this is my annoyance that the 1989 championship team seems to be forgotten in all of the talk about the "Fab Five." I understand that Rumeal Robinson is a contemptible human being, but if we are going to give publicity to some former players during our title run, let's give it to Glen Rice, Terry Mills, Loy Vaught, Sean Higgins, Mike Griffin, Mark Hughes, Demetrius Calip and their other teammates. They are strangely forgotten when the history of Michigan basketball is discussed here, even though they accomplished the most important feat in Michigan basketball history.
1993 me is giddy about this. 2013 me is uneasy with it. I'd love for them to be there, but how about they get a box and invite the '89 team to join them. Sitting courtside would be a circus and definitely remove the focus from the current team.
If we are making a run in the tourney everyone is going to talk about the fab five even if they hide in a cave for the entire month of march. Having famous nba guys support your team is good for the program, I know some shy away from the fab five but if we are honest with ourselves they are the reason michigan is even considered a slightly good basketball school.
I agree with everything you said up to the last 20 words. The mid-1970's and 1989 teams would beg to differ with your analysis re: why Michigan is considered a good basketball school.
Two final fours in the 1960s with Cazzie Russell's teams didn't hurt either.
There's a reason they called Crisler the House That Cazzie Built.
If they pay for tickets they can sit wherever they want.
Although Jalen has been unswerving in his support of U-M, despite the scandal, sanctions, etc., he caused the school and program enough pain (and foreited wins) that I don't think he is owed anything. That's especially true of any form of "tribute" to the Fab Five (officially: the players who never played at Michigan).
As for Webber, well, I wouldn't mind if they actually baracade the gates into perpetuity to keep him out of Crisler Arena.
Who caused the the school and program pain is up for debate.
I love the Fab Five. I just don't think it has to be a big deal. You want to buy your four friends courtside seats, go ahead. Even if your name happens to be Jalen Rose. Fine by me.
They aren't going to stop a March Madness game to "honor" the Fab Five. I mean there is another team in the house - with their own history - who has accomplished just as much as the Michigan team up to that point.
I like Jalen and part of the reason I do is he loves attention (to which I say who doesn't really?) so you can't expect anything less from him, but I think it would be fine if they want to show up and watch. It's a free country.
I've met him on a few occasions at Detroit Metro Airport standing in line for security or at the gate. He is very down to earth and a genuinely nice guy.
However, what happened during the Fab Five era, IME, is not something we should be making reference to, nor celebrating.
Loved the Fab Five. Would like them to lay back and let this season remain about this team.
I just went through here and upvoted everything just so I could read it all since I usually have neg comments hidden. Someone today thought this discussion clearly wasn't worth having, and thus they were downvoting everything even when people were making good points.
I don't want anything to distract from the greatness of this year's team, so let the Fab Five stay away for now, especially until Webber's no contact clause expires. Maybe in the fall when we are hanging the banners for this season, the fab 5 and 1989 teams can all be there as part of a celebration for this team.
You can stop spelling Crisler wrong now
We are in the Final Four? What did I miss?
I know the Fab 5 is upset they took their banners down. I think there is a great lesson in forgiveness the Rose is displaying.
3 vet NBA players courtside cheering on our team? Sounds awful
if they want to come to the game, its their right to do so, but part of me just hopes they watch from home. it'd honestly be too much of a distraction for the team to have the fab five sitting right there in front of them.
I wonder if most of you are even reading the article? They aren't talking about a home game. This wouldn't be at Crisler. He is talking about the tournament games. It doesn't involve the university at all.
It would be nice if the current U of M administration could find a way to make peace with these guys and find a way for both sides to be made whole again, so these guys being courtside of a basketball game wouldn't have to be a distraction. Four of the five were never implicated in the Ed Martin affair, so it's unfair that the University continues to kind of turn it's back on them.
If they want to come, and do so once able to with regard to those who have no contact orders, that is fine. That said do it on their own time and don't tell the TV folks ahead of time. Having the cameras pan over them during breaks in the game, zooming in on each player, and the announcers recounting their transgressions, is not something I want. Let the announcers talk about the Five if they want, but let it remain abstract. No reason to see any of them in the flesh.
As for moral minorities or whatever complaining about the Five. We mock tOSU for having no standards, tats, free cars, etc. We mock MSU for ski mask raids and fights. However suddenly when people are critical of inviting back players who found themselves at the heart of the worst athletic scandal in our school's history, I see it just the bleating of the moral minority. Like it or not, it happened and trying to white wash it over 10 years after the sanctions doesn't change that. If the school felt it had reasons to avoid contact with the players for the past decade, what suddenly changes just because a new date is showing the calendar? The fact it was a corrupt time for our program remains.
Player*. Rose, Howard, King, Jackson were not at the heart of any scandal. Try again.
Right, because Martin gave Webber hundreds of thousands of dollars, took Cleaves out for booze and strippers on his official visit, gave Bullock's family airline tickets (plus 70k to Bullock), gave Taylor one hundred thousand, gave Traylor a SUV, etc, but Martin never approached or interacted with the other four members of the Fab 5. Also these members noticed all the dirty things that went on during the length of Martin's association with the program. I'm sure Martin just gave Webber a bunch of money to help improve Michigan basketball and ignored all the other recruits.
Rose is considered to be the only person called to testify who didn't receive large amounts of money. I've always found it interesting they say "large amounts of money" instead of "didn't take money". Michigan has opted to to flush the entire period because clearly illegal things happened and we'll never be sure who took what, who turned a blind eye, who said "thanks but no thanks" (and then failed to report the improper contact), etc. As such all the players involved remain tainted.
Why stop there?! I'm sure Ed Martin was giving thousands to most of the football team too. Wheatley and Howard were probably on the take also. We better keep them away.
All the evidence suggests that Ed Martin's involvement with the Michigan basketball program started small and grew over time. I mean if you're going to implicate Juwan Howard, Jimmy King, and Ray Jackson along with Webber and Jalen, then what about Eric Riley? Or Rob Pelinka? Or James Voskuil? Or Dugan Fife? I mean, by the time the scandal broke, it was clear that Martin's involvement with Michigan had gotten way out of control, but there's nothing to suggest he was as ubiquitous a figure in the Fab Five era. Just because 4 players took big money doesn't make EVERY other player at Michigan guilty by association.
Before you indict Michigan, keep in mind that we're the only school that has come clean about our players' dealings with Martin. Not everyone he paid went to school here. He started out as a Detroit street agent and only gradually became associated with U-M.
I don't think anybody is talking about white-washing what happened 20 years ago, but just making peace with it. Right now, it's just this open wound that won't go away and we see the University kind of half-ass sticking their toe in the water with "Jalen Rose Night" or "Jimmy King Night". Four of the five had nothing to do with the Ed Martin scandal and those guys aren't going to turn their back on Webber, so it seems in both parties best interests to just find some common ground. Granted this would involve some give and take on both sides, but it would be awesome if we could just celebrate the good the Fab Five did for Michigan rather than pick at the scab everytime the topic comes up.
So you would not scoff at Ohio making peace with Terrelle Pryor?
I really don't care if they make peace with Terrelle Pryor or not. I think if Webber and the University could find some common ground as to where he could be welcomed back along with his Fab Five teammates, it would be a good thing for Michigan. This would likely involve some kind of public gesture on Chris' part of him acknowledging how his actions hurt U of M and apologizing for it and U of M making a gesture that would honor the Fab Five, so form of quid pro quo.
Regardless, this is a far cry from OSU carrying Tressel around on their shoulders in public defiance that he or Pryor was ever guilty of any wrongdoing.
So in 8 years when Ohio invites Pryor back to celebrate the 2010 Big Ten Championship team you will be supportive? It would be a good public gesture for the University and Pryor to acknowledge wrongdoings and find some common ground.
Or will you be hyper-critical like the rest of our fanbase?
In my mind the university has no reason to invite Webber back. All the wins were vacated and sure once his ban is lifted he can come to the games but why should be honor/celebrate a rule breaker? How do we defend that without admiting our criticism of Pryor, Tressell, and Clarrett was wrong?
This is what I don't understand. Why is this fanbase so obsessed with pointing out everyone, especially our rivals, shortcomings.
Ohio State is more than welcome to bring back Pryor and celebrate his Rose Bowl victory. I think the Tressel thing was funny because they honored him on a day that they would have secured a spot int he NC if it wasn't for him. The circumstances were poor, but how could you just remove what he did for OSU from their history?
Which leads me back to the Fab Five. Broken rules or no broken rules, they are a part of this schools history. All history, bad and good, should be acknowledged.
I like having moral authority so that I can criticize rivals without being hypocritical.
They are a stain on our school's history. Acknowledged? Yes. Honored? No.
Also, keep the banners in the basement.