Freep reporting violations by UM
August 30th, 2009 at 12:45 AM ^
The Freep considers itself, to a degree correctly, as the paper for Detroit first, then the state of Michigan. Both Detroit and the state as a whole have significantly more State alumni and fans then UM, because UM alumni leave the state in greater numbers than State and State has a higher undergraduate population in the first place. Therefore, you should generally consider the Freep to be the local paper for State fans.
As the Freep is in a somewhat dire situation financially, they are not likely to want to antagonize their primary base of readers, namely State fans. Hence the anti-UM stories that often border the realm of the ludicrous, mixed in with favorable State coverage, such as glossing over Glenn Winston's release from prison for assault just in time for preseason camp. State fans do not want to hear that their football players going to prison and then back to the football field, they want to hear that Michigan practices too much.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:53 AM ^
While I won't disagree with you entirely, i think what miffs a lot of U of M fans is that that several of the worst offenders at the freep are U of M alums. It seems at times that they are given inside access to the school as a result of their status as alumni and rather than using this opportunity to write objectively about the athletic program, they cherry pick quotes and concoct hit pieces based on ridiculous assertions and allegations.
August 30th, 2009 at 8:18 AM ^
there are more state grads, doesn't mean that they can read.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:48 PM ^
I just hope I don't see this on Sportscenter tomorrow AM, I will have latte' coming out of my ears.
Sad that the media controls so much........
August 30th, 2009 at 1:04 AM ^
Saw it already on ESPN bottomline during Baseball Tonight...ugh
August 29th, 2009 at 9:48 PM ^
1 week before game 1..... nice timing Freep.
It has been obvious since the begining of RR era at Michigan that Rosenberg and Snyder to a lessor extent have set out to smear RR in any way possible and now this is coming to a head.
The really disappointing thing about it is: a) they dont mention any names just some alleged players with some comments... so we are supposed to take Rosenbergs word on all this when he CLEARLY has an agenda...
b) the national media will be all over this like hot-cakes and we will hear more about it in the next 3 days...much more, Rome..PTI etc. get ready.
c) Michigan had better win NOW or RR is gone. I hate to say it, because they have not been given a chance, but I am convinced now that certain forces are out to get him out of UM. Its obvious now.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:12 PM ^
Snyder is a Michigan man. REALLY. He has his degree. Goes to games when he's not working and bleeds maize and blue. This guy is one of us. That said, he has a job to do and, whomever these players are clearly dropped a story in his lap. The guy has a job to do. Again, what concerns me is the possibility that players on the team might be among the six. I'd love to know at least whether these players are guys who are still on the team.
As per comment (c) I suspect you're correct. Too much bad press (right or wrong, deserved or not). If he has a losing record I suspect the pressure will be too great for the school to keep him and they can use all the press as the impetus to remove him.
Personally, I'm just annoyed about the distraction.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:15 PM ^
I've heard from multiple people I know with ties to the AD that there is a large Carr contingent still... I'm wondering if they would take the first opportunity to campaign for RichRod's ousting.
I'll be honest, I'm really scared of what will happen if we go 5-7 now.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:23 PM ^
What do they want??? You know what I mean. I agree with you, there is a "Carr Contingent" in the press, amongst the former players and in the administration. But why would Carr dislike Rodriguez from the get go??? Rodriguez got this job in part due to Don Nehlen vouching for him and Don is a Bo/Mo/Lloyd co-hort. My understanding was that the Carr Contigent was out there trying to stop the Les Miles hire so how many coaches can they have been organizing against?
August 29th, 2009 at 10:26 PM ^
I'd heard rumors to the effect of Carr not liking the fact that DeBord got no serious consideration for the job.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:13 AM ^
At the end of the day, Debord turned Central Michigan around from a terrible team into a laughing stock. No one wanted that to happen with Michigan.
August 30th, 2009 at 3:11 AM ^
oh my god....DeBord? Carr, why don't you just pencil in eight more losses to OSU already?
August 29th, 2009 at 10:38 PM ^
Snyder is not one of me...and Im not one of him. RR has not caused most of these "distractions"...for the most part it is Snyder, Rosenberg and the Freep out to prove their agenda.
It is a modern day witch hunt to its very core.
and...it is despicable.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:55 PM ^
I don't know what you are tom, but Mark is a Michigan man. Can't speak for Rosenberg or the Freep agenda (although it certainly appears there is one and its not good for Michigan). Mark is also a journalist and if these players were putting this out there, he has a job to do. He can't bury it. More important than blaming the journalists to me is the fear that, it appears from the article that there is some kind of discontent in the program and needless to say not everyone wearing the helmets are "All In". I would have liked to know some more info on who the sources were. Were they guys who left? Backups or someone who may held a grudge.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:24 PM ^
That richrod suddenly changed his coaching methods when he came to uofm. The biggest change in his move was him stepping into a situation where a contingent of so called "Michigan Men" coagulated from the remnants of the past, and this group doesn't like RichRod. Its not out of the question that Snyder is part of this cabal of old timers, and putting out an article exposing violations that good high school programs get away with. It seems real fucking fishy.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:48 PM ^
In regards to Rosenberg being a Michigan man, yes, he probably is. But I have yet to meet a fanbase with more self-hating fans than Michigan. Maybe Brandeis or the Catholic University of America.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:57 PM ^
Don't know anything about him beyond what he writes. Refering to Mark Snyder.
August 30th, 2009 at 2:27 AM ^
Got it, though I still think we as a fanbase are very harsh on ourselves. If that made any sense at all.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:17 PM ^
What in that article suggests Rosenberg and Snyder are "smearing RR in any way possible"?
This article was pretty objective if you ask me.
Terrance Taylor admitted to 10 hour Sundays. There's no journalistic cheap shots being taken there. They are simply reporting.
Does every team in the nation do it? Maybe. That doesn't make their report an "agenda."
This sucks, and I love Michigan and Rich Rod, but we can't blindly dismiss this article.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:21 PM ^
A completely and totally legit question with no snark attached: Do you think the timing is a coincidence?
August 29th, 2009 at 10:24 PM ^
Absolutely not.
But, and I ask this knowing little of how a newspaper works, but is the decision of when to run this type of article made by the writer/reporter or the editor?
I would logically assume the editor, who is probably more concerned with selling papers/page views than the reporters.
At the same time, if it was a week earlier, I don't think we'd be any less perturbed by when it was released.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:32 PM ^
I think it depends. I've had some time in the journalism field (not print) and can say that it really is a conversation between the editor and the reporter, but the editor does have a major (if not final in some cases) say. So does that mean the editor waited for this to come out? Probably. Does that make the editor any better than Rosenberg? Nope.
Just seems odd it took them two years to compile this data, when most hard working reporters could have written this (after interviews) in two days.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:12 PM ^
An interesting read is http://www.concernedjournalists.org/node/426 about the Minnesota Basketball Scandal in 1997.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:25 PM ^
the article, at worst, implies that Michigan under Lloyd Carr DIDN'T have 9-hour Sunday sessions and go over off-season conditioning and in-season practice limits. So there's at least one example of team that didn't do it.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:23 AM ^
Mediocrity
August 30th, 2009 at 1:03 AM ^
If your point is that Carr ran a clean program and our record suffered because of it, then I have to question whether you believe that winning or upholding the integrity of the university is more important. If Carr's desire to uphold the football program to a high standard of integrity was detrimental to the team's performance, then he should be admired because of it.
Note: I do not mean to insinuate that Rodriguez is not holding the team to a high standard of integrity. In fact, I feel that would be stupid, considering the team's GPA last year. Although I'm sure that the Freep is now attempting to get some professor to claim that Rodriguez forced faculty to give football players better grades or something as part of the paper's continuing effort to tarnish the Michigan football program.
August 30th, 2009 at 1:11 AM ^
Heck, when I was in high school playing football we had practice/films on Sunday for up to 4-5 hrs (same with Saturday, sometimes longer actually). And that's in high school! How is it so odd that a top division I program would have activities for that long on a Sunday?
The intent of this whole thing, if it is in fact to smear RR and run him out of town or whatever, is truly, truly pathetic. It is equally pathetic if they're just trying to make money, because that's the most important thing in life, right? (last half of last sentence was sarcasm in case you couldn't tell)
August 29th, 2009 at 9:52 PM ^
You do not become the best conditioned team in the country without outworking everybody else, so yes, I can believe these guys are putting in extra hours. The question becomes is it mandatory?
I am sure RR and other coaches cover their ass by making sure the proper forms are filled out proving the workouts are optional. I am also sure the players know the workouts are mandatory.
I think this will be less of an issue when RR has all his own recruits in here. Some of these players did not sign up for the Barwis conditioning program and are suffering from culture shock. RR has said more than once that this is not for everyone and we are finding that statement to be true.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:54 PM ^
More problems,more distractions for a team trying to find its way.
This kind of stuff sometimes just snowballs.RR must be wondering by now if it was worth coming to Mich.
The hounds have been nipping at his heels since day one.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:57 PM ^
If these allegations are true, then I must admit that I am not surprised. There has always been something shady about Rich Rod in my mind, and it would not surprise me if he and has staff tried to find ways to break or bend rules. He just does not strike me as the most genuine person when he addresses the media, and it would explain the unusually high attrition rates. Having played college football myself, I cannot imagine putting in the time that the author and players allege that Rich Rod's staff requires.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:03 PM ^
attrition rates? what the fuck are you talking about? there's nothing unusual about the amount of players that have left. in most cases more players leave
August 29th, 2009 at 10:03 PM ^
Out of curiosity, at what level did you play college football?
I'm not questioning your credentials, fyi, I'm just curious.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:33 PM ^
I must admit that I went to an elite liberal arts school and graduated with an economics degree. I know my collegiate experience was different than anyone's who would have played at Michigan, but I cannot imagine being able to have enough time to be a student if I had this kind of schedule. Our Sunday practices were incredibly hard (like those mentioned in the article), but, outside of that, nothing like that. After experiencing an NFL training camp, I can tell you that this schedule (if Rosenberg's sources are true) would be much more than the pros put in.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:07 PM ^
at a number of D-III schools and the one thing that struck me as out of the ordinary was what you've implied as somewhat normal for you . . the tough Sundays. Traditionally that's been meetings, a short on the field session (which ends up being mainly some conditioning) and a lift in my experience. A 9-hour session seems completely out of the norm at any level, and, I would think, counterproductive after a certain point.
August 30th, 2009 at 12:21 AM ^
Being that you went to grad school @ UM I’d be hard pressed not to think your focus as an undergrad was on your degree more so than your on the field performance as an athlete, which is commendable, but even though I cannot comment on the amount of time served or un-served for practice as I was not a student athlete in college…these student athletes are at an “elite” academic AND football institution, and be in right, wrong, or indifferent decided to come to Michigan to major in Football 1st and foremost.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:05 PM ^
Furthermore, Fuckstick, the article doesn't even get into time specifics. So, how can you "not imagine" the time that the author and players "allege?"
August 29th, 2009 at 10:18 PM ^
The full article appears to have some numbers in it.
http://freep.com/article/20090829/SPORTS06/90829023
August 29th, 2009 at 10:18 PM ^
You played and can't imagine putting in that kind of time? I'm not trying to personally attack you or anything, but I disagree. In the spring we had 6 am workouts 5 days a week with an evening workout on Sunday. The workouts lasted about 2 hours. We would have player led 7 on 7's or one on one's a couple times a week in the afternoon. People generally didn't stay on campus in the summer, but we had a workout plan. If you didn't follow it completely, you were going to be in for a rough camp. During the season, we had two hour practices in the afternoon, 6am film on Monday morning, position group lunch meetings two days a week, and an evening team meeting on Thursday. And that was D-3!!! I can absolutely see that amount of time being spent for a BCS level school. This whole article smells of sour grapes.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:34 PM ^
This isn't only true of football, but every sport. In this day and age when there is no off-season, this rule gets broken every week by every student-athlete in the NCAA. I signed monthly sheets stating we only practiced 20 hours per week fully knowing that was not the case. Every sport has S&C to go along with normal practices and many sports have film sessions. You honestly could go to any program at any school across the country and write this same article. It is just a lot more sexy since it is Michigan. Rosenberg and Snyder have not exactly come upon some groundbreaking case here. The only thing they figured out was which players would talk.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:57 PM ^
My thought is that virtually every team openly flaunts this rule and that any "sanctions" coming from this will be negligible. I'm more worried that kids on the team were willing to go to the press with this than the fact that it's being reported. The LA Times would run to the presses if six USC players came to them with this, too.
Who are these players? They can't all be Boren and Wermers.
August 29th, 2009 at 9:58 PM ^
You're niave if you think this doesn't happen just about everywhere. Yeah, Spartan fans will bash us and people who don't know anything about UM football will think RR is destroying our program. But, like a couple other people have said, the NCAA won't do anything. Paying players is much worse than practicing more than you're supposed to.
It's like the speed limit. You're only supposed to go the posted speed limit, but no one actually follows that.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:08 PM ^
Call me a pessimist, but the NCAA has been so slow to jump on the teams who have obviously been doing pay-for-play, and yet I feel like this is the sort of thing they would be all over.
Yeah. Definitely a pessimist.
August 29th, 2009 at 11:06 PM ^
I assume your referring to reggie bush and similar happenings at usc. A big part of the bush dealings is that he settled with those who made the accusations, the ones who had the information the NCAA would need to take action against the university.
The NCAA does not have subpoena power, they can't make just anyone talk to them. But with what the writer has already nailed down in his article, the interviews could very well lead to an investigation.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:04 PM ^
This has been picked up by chicagonow.com as "breaking news"
August 29th, 2009 at 10:04 PM ^
I'm also interested in knowing how Rosenberg got all the details about all of this. I find it farfetched as it is that players would immediately run to him to report about this stuff...but how does he have all the information about what workouts took place, when they took place and who was present during them? RR has removed him from practices and scrimmages in the past...I find it hard to believe he'd somehow get access to "voluntary" workouts during the summer...where's the info coming from?
August 29th, 2009 at 10:05 PM ^
This just begs the question again....what kind of country club was LC running around here....i mean what pussys these guys sound like....and for the Freep to release this exactly one week before the first game reeks of an agenda....especially putting in quotes from Jeron Stokes and Brandon Hawthorne whos quotes werent even in context to what this dousche writer was trying to prove. I'm glad that some of these girls are gone now...the next move needs to be B.Minor or some senior stepping up in front of the room and saying "whoever the pussies are or if its too hard for you, get the fuck out"
August 29th, 2009 at 10:21 PM ^
The article clearly states that Hawthorne was not complaining about the times. I don't know what you mean by saying they weren't in context, especially when the writers added extra to explain the context.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:38 PM ^
if you are stokes or hawthorne though...these are kids who were answering a different question and now are being used in part of allegations against their team...pretty shitty to use a 18-19 year old kid
August 29th, 2009 at 10:45 PM ^
Maybe. Or maybe they are just two of the several people that were interviewed; two that did not request anonymity. Maybe they were being asked the same exact questions, just they were not two of the five that gave similar accounts about being worked too much.
I would whole-heartedly agree with you that they were being used if the article used their quotes as a way to show how RR was taking advantage of the players and forcing them to do something they didn't want. However, the article says, in opposition to its main argument (that players were being forced to do what they didn't want), that Hawthorne was not complaining.
Sorry for the long run-on sentence, but I think you'll get my point.
August 29th, 2009 at 10:07 PM ^
Rosenberg is trying to make a name for himself. He wants to be Mitch Albom on ESPN. First the Bo/Woody book, and now he wants to be the guy that is responsible for ousting RR and shaping the future of Michigan Football.
IMO, Bill Martin needs to step up and make a public statement about this report, and do it with details and facts to back up the universities position.