I think all of this is hypocritical BS. First of all, I like Jalen Rose, but his comments were stupid. If he was saying what he felt like as a 18-19 year old kid, fine. They were stupid thoughts then, too, but at least I can understand a young man not being very wise. Were they racist? I would say they were more built on not understanding people who do not grow up like you grew up. He was essentially saying that the more affluent players like Grant Hill were somehow less black than he was. Stupid comments built on youth and ignorance. Beckmann calling him racist for it was likewise stupid. He, of course, is not 18 and should know better. His comments about not liking the fab five, though, could be based on their arrogance and feeling that they were more important than the university they represented. The University made money on the backs of the poor starving kid, blah blah blah, they still cheated (Webber the most obviously, but it is a little arrogant to think that none of them knew about him or were receiving anything themselves). Anyone who works is exploited by their company. My company makes a lot more off of my work than they pay me. College athletes more or less have a part time job which pays them 15 to 20 thousand dollars a year. Not too bad. It is not any different than what we all slam the OSU kids for. Play by the rules or go pro. Regardless, his comments were no more racist than Rose's were, and the quick jump to him being an old white racist by many of those here is ridiculous. Basically, many people are slamming a guy they don't like for slamming something he doesn't like. It is the same old "you don't think like me, ahhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!" attitude that is too prevelant today - from liberals and conservatives, btw. RR guys and Carr guys, too. Everything is too black and white. Why can't this guy just not like the fab five and leave it at that?
Frank Beckmann's Fab Five comments
Did you not watch the documentary, or have you not been reading Brian's posts on this blog, or are you having the same problem with past tense verb conjugation that anyone else who believes Jalen feels the same way today? Or was that just unfortunate word choice? Because it couldn't be more clear that this "if" is indeed the case. Not sure if that obviates the point of the rest of your post or not...
As for "I can understand a young man not being very wise" or "youthful and ignorant"....how about jealous and bitter, as Jalen admitted himself? My bet...you've not walked an inch in those shoes.
And as for "Why can't this guy just not like the fab five and leave it at that?" The answer is because he used a word that went beyond "not liking" the Fab Five. So in your view, both of their comments were stupid, and even though Beckmann's came from someone that wasn't a disadvantaged youth, he deserves the long defense of his point of view, but Jalen doesn't? Sorry...don't agree.
Where did I say that Beckmann deserved anything that Jalen didn't? I said that it was wrong to call Jalen racist just like it was wrong to call Beckmann racist. And if by "walked and inch in his shoes" you mean growing up a poor black kid in a single parent family in inner city detroit then rising to national fame because of my basketball ability, then no, I have not. Have you?
Also, I read Brian's posts but although I respect his work with this blog and his enthusiasm as a Michigan fan, I don't blindly believe his analysis like many of the sycophants.
Finally, how is your choice of jealous and bitter somehow better than youthful and ignorant?
My point still stands. Both guys said stupid things, but one guy is lauded and protected and the other is hammered. I just find it hypocritical. I personally like both guys and would like to give them both the benefit of the doubt. If you want to dislike them both I can respect that, too. I just find it hard to swallow picking and choosing.
You didn't "say that Beckmann deserved anything that Jalen didn't", you merely spent a long post defending what he said without similarly backing up Jalen's. Perhaps you were just evening up the ledger since you perceive there to be more defense of Jalen's side. If so, fair enough.
Have I? You're kind of creating a straw man by defining Jalen quite so narrowly (Detroit, national fame, basketball ability), but I can say that I grew up with enough adversity and relative disadvantage that I absolutely carried a chip on my shoulder that motivated me and continues to motivate me to achieve success in my chosen field.
As for Brian's "analysis"....how is the fact that every single verb Jimmy and Jalen used on the topic being in past tense considered "analysis"? That's pretty cut and dry, to me. And especially since Jalen has gone on to make it explicit in subsequent forums.
As for jealous and bitter vs. youthful and arrogant...I'll concede the point that I was putting meaning on to your words that perhaps you didn't mean. I would say the difference is that I ascribe justification to Jalen's point of view...I understand where he's coming from and so I put them into a context and "forgive" him (for lack of a better word...it implies a right to pass judgment from me on to Jalen that I don't intend).
Anyway, I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just think people that think Jalen was wrong for his point of view as an 18 year old aren't comprehending his circumstances.
...on the "have I?" topic...that I also appreciate my relative *advantages* well enough that I respect those that reach maturity and success without them, as well.
I agree with Brian's reference to the moron Beck and would be happy to see this guy get canned. His play by play is pretty good but his obsequious byplay is obnoxious. Find a good Michigan "homer" who feels the same way that we do about Michigan football with no political subtext.
... I actually never knew he did politics until today, because of my general preference to avoid the field entirely.
I've always thought of him as a good radio guy, but those comments should not be tolerated for the home team announcer. First, his comments were ignorant and if not racist, then damn close. Second, he's supposed to be the Michigan broadcast guy. It seems like he'd be better suited for a school like, ummm, well... Duke.
I will be writing a letter, as well.
I don't normally like to slam people for their opinions but you really have to be a moron if you think that Beckmann is "amateurish" or just not very good at radio play-by-play. I don't know about that aOSU announcer and don't really care because I've heard a lot of radio play-by-play voices and Beckmann's has to be up there as one of the best as far as excitement goes. Also he's done this for almost thirty years
Beckmann sucks, he just does
Not sure if you realize this but there is a difference between bad and amateur. The original accusation made was of both, so I was defending each one individually. This is called an argument.
I have to agree with you on this one. I've always thought he was overrated. If this is what gets him fired so they can bring in someone better then it will be worth it.
I thought Beckmann's call of the bball game was awful. He's good at football, but just isn't a good bball guy. On the other hand, I really really like Matt Sheppard for bball and think he's far superior. Shep just seems to understand bball better and give a better picture of what's going on. Beckmann just wasn't quick enough, imo. With fball, you can be a bit slower and have a big verbal burst in conjunction with the occassional big play. However, with bball, you've got to be quicker and more on your toes. Bball just has a higher baseline announcing intensity than fball does.
who I remember growing up listening to. That being said, that Buckeye guy blows him away.
Keels used to do U-M games in the 80's, if I'm not mistaken.
I like Beckmanns voice for football. If I have to work on a saturday and miss the game, his voice is what I want to hear. He does a great job describing the games. His politics is not of my concern unless he runs for office which is not going to happen. This was made on facebook, and not even to the general public. Plus who exactly is a fan of the Frank Beckmann show Facebook page?
You know what they say: when people want to keep a thought to themselves, they put it on Facebook.
at a time when the U is making a careful rapprochement with the Fab 5. Pity the fool didn't watch the documentary because if he spouts such drivel after seeing how much hate those kids had to play through at the time then if he still comes out with this. . .
his comments make me suspect he is well aware of the hate thrown at those kids when they were there.
he's a pathetic, narrow-minded moron who's incapable of understanding what the Fab Five represented. More importantly, this statement is the antithesis of what this University is all about and why this University is so uniquely great....See ya....
I remember 760 as this bastion of informative interesting radio that actually provided a service to the entire state of Michigan as well as most of the country on good nights. It's sad to know that it is simply cheap political hackery anymore. I don't know that firing Beckmann is the best idea but making him apologize and discuss why his statement was so wrong would at least get his "fans" to hear a message and not go all conspiracy theory.
i don't see how comments on the Fab 5 can translate to being 'political.' i tend to agree with 'some' of Beckmann's political views, yet i in no way share ANY of his moronic and misinformed opinions on the Fab 5.
i still say fire him though...
And I'm all
I might be in the minority, but I've never been a big fan of our play by play tandem (even before his Facebook comments). I find them both to be somewhat obnoxious. And I'm one of the most obnoxious guys I know.
Those who play the "racist" card first are fair game.
I didn't have huge problems with his comments until he got to the part about racism. On behalf of Whitey, it is very, very dicey territory to start calling a bunch of poor urban black 19-year-old kids racist.
So calling someone racist makes you racist? I don't follow your logic. Also, should people really be fired because you don't agree with their politics? Seems a tad fascist to me.
EDIT: btw Bo was outspokenly political, and I doubt his opinions were similar to yours. You think he should have been fired for it?
I don't agree with Beckmann's politics AT ALL, and his columns in the DetNews are really poorly written and reasoned.
But the man is entilted to his views. I don't see how this should affect his standing as a play-by-play man.
I don't think calling someone a racist necessarily makes you a racist. However, I'm sure there have been racists who in fact called others racist, so it's not logically impossible.
I think a rich old white suburban dude like Beckmann calling a poor young black kid from Detroit "racist" doesn't make him (Beckmann) racist. It makes him a fucking idiot who doesn't know how to deploy the English language properly.
I think the more subtly bigoted thing about Beckmann's comments was the whole "antithesis" argument. Much of that was code language for uncouth inner city negroes. Which, to me, fine. If you're a fat old rich white dude from the suburbs, you probably do find poor black kids from Detroit abhorrent. I personally will stand with the latter and tell Beckmann to STFU.
towards white people?
...and that people who do so aren't really black.
I'm not sure that I am following beckman's logic in calling the fab five racist....
However, old white men judging young black men, and praising our current white dominated basketball team while hoping that we never have an all black basketball team again seems very racist...so do comments by other old white men saying "I'm so glad that you said this" and "finally someone said it," and other things like that.
His comments were clearly alluding to somethimg more than what was written, and I think what the OP assumes that something is a general annimostity toward outgoing african american players that became bigger than Michigan that aren't going to behave as old white men would want them to. In my opinion, he definitely comes across as racist, though I am sure that he doesn't believe that he is.
I was in the band in 2004 when Bo came and talked to us. He had just come from a George W. Bush rally, where he was one of the speakers. That's proof that he was a tough guy that he could survive AA as a conservative. I absolutely love Frank Beckmann as he is part of the Michigan tradition for me. I grew up listening to him calling Michigan games. My question is, why are we all obligated to love the Fab 5? I loved them at the time, but watching that documentary was more like watching Titanic for me.
Who lives and dies with this team and puts more out there than anyone on this little anonymous blog. His comments were stupid. What, you've never said anything stupid?
i doubt your grandmother has a 50,000 watt radio station or a facebook page, nor does she represent a university with a $5 billion endowment that has recently been through some issues with affirmative action.
i suggest that anymore beckmann discussion happen on his talk show's facebook page.
I also do not see how this is political. Is it the use of the word entitlement? Regardless, it sucks and there should at least be a good semi-sincere apology issued. Personally, I would MUCH rather see Brando retire.
Beckmann is one of the great annoucers in Michigan history and I find myself turning the T.V. down to listen to him. It is interesting that people on this forum have a problem with his political views and being associated with the university. Fine lets kick everyone associated with the university out of it that is a political acivist. Guaranteed that 90% of them are on the opposite end of the spectrum than Frank. Where were all these people when we had that self proclaimed huge liberal in Tommy Amacker coaching the team?
Or his right to express them. I have a problem when he uses them in reference to the University, or it's players, past or present. It's a conflict of interest. Firing is silly for this action (People are always cavalier with other people's jobs), but he should be told to stop using the school to espouse his views, apologize by admitting it was inappropriate, or choice to stop affliating himself with the school (quit).
And unlike some who don't seem to want "some guy who doesn't have the same views as I do representing the University", it's not any stance in his personal life that matters to me; only how he references the school. I don't really like it when the U partakes in activism outside it's teaching mission. A university is supposed to be all views and ideas, and no one representing it should be taking sides.
I think Frank needs to be retired. It is NOT an age thing; he just hasn't kept up well with the times. He's the voice of all the nostalgic, constipated baby boomers (and above) in Metro Detroit who've eaten too much meat 'n cheese over too many years and still believe that "Purtan's People" represent the apotheosis of comedy. They also believe that SE Michigan's problems can be blamed almost entirely on those south of 8 Mile.
Anyone who lived or grew up in SE MIchigan in the 80's or 90's had to chukle at this. I especially did after I looked up what apotheosis meant!
I think it's offensive that Beckmann is seemingly unable to look past the demeanor of the kids nearly 2 decades ago, can't see past the shorts, and the brashness to see what they are: 4 intelligent, college graduates, all of whom, to varying degrees, are very committed to community service, altruism, and charity. To him, their appearance and demeanor on a basketball court makes them something be ashamed of, when many would look to see who they are now, and count them as a credit to any institution.
It's funny how people refer to the Fab 5 as "just a bunch of thugs," without knowing that 4 of them graduated. In fact, I believe Jalen was on the Dean's List for pretty much all of his time at the University (I think Juwan was too, but someone can correct me on that if I'm wrong).
From my experience speaking with people about the Fab 5, there is a general cognitive dissonance. All five men have proven to be extremely successful, intelligent, dedicated, and generous individuals, and even knowing this, a lot of people I've spoken with still view them as thugs.
were not inappropriate, but also were not entirely accurate. He indirectly implies that the Fab Five were selfish, did not play hard and had a sense of entitlement. The Fab Five, contrary to this simple characterization, were very unselfish and their unselfish team-first attitude was a big reason for their success. Their success was also the result of hard work off the court and hard play on the court. For these reasons, they almost (except for bad luck and youth) almost won one or two national championships.
He was right about a couple things. They were cocky/arrogant and not always respectful of opponents. Jalen's youthful opinions were also racist - anybody of any color or background can obviously be racist. But Beckmann fails to put the opinions into context. They were the youthful opinions of a poor and fatherless teenager whose reality is at least partially the product of centuries of racism. Duke players, by and large, enjoyed a different reality. So, it's only human nature for him to have had some of these feelings. Moreover, it's a bit harsh to label the youthful Jalen "racist" for these feelings or opinions. For all we know, he might have been very non-racist and open-minded in his everyday life. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise. In fact, Jalen's appears to be an intelligent and open-minded non-racist person today.
Although I don't agree with him, I think Beckmann is entitled to his opinions and should not be fired for expressing his opinions.
Translation: I am a liberal and do not like a conservatives on the radio. Therefore I am looking for things to get him fired over. That is what I got out of your post.
The guy is entitled to his opinion about the fab five. Just because you don't like it means little. I do not like the guys opinion either but I am not stupid enough to think that everyone who I disagree with should be taken off the air. There is nothing about his post anymore "race fueled" than what Jalen said. So if you are horrified about this then you should be at Jalen also.
Is your post a joke?
You do realize Beckmann is an old man stating his opinion while Jalen was a young man stating his opinion?
I don't want to pounce on you too much but you do realize freedom of speech and expression is still allowed in this country?
I find it comical that the first place people jump is race in this rather than age. It isn't surprising that an old man didn't like the Fab Five. Anyone who lived through the Fab Five era would know there were a lot of old men that didn't like the Fab Five. Why do you think they were so appealing to the younger crowd?
the same thought when reading the reply to your post - is this a joke?
While I am also a great defender of everybody's right to offend, his comment about an "old man" was easily one of the most ignorant and offensive things I've read on this blog in awhile. It seems that we live in a time where any commentary on racial issues results in irrational flinging of the term "racist" while at the same time, many believe it's socially acceptable to be ageist and dismissive of an "old man's" opinions. Older people of any age, gender or color usually have significant wisdom, perspective and opinions worth listening to.
I see your point. But I still don't think you post came across well. His opinions weren't entirely "stupid" and should not be easily dismissed as such. And his age is not particularly relevant to whether his opinion has validity or not. But again, I understand that you were not trying to disparage his opinion based on age.
As for Jalen, he was not a "kid" or a "child" but an adult when he held his stated opinions. I understand how Beckmann might find an adult (even a young adult) holding Jalen's prior opinions to be troubling and not desirable.
Hey there champ, the OP started with the politics. You should go call him out. I won't hold my breath.
Please keep posting to prove my point.
Stick to football, Frank.
Beckmann does a great job as a play-by-play announcer and should not be fired over this, especially not at U-M, a university that prides itself on being a bastion of free speech and free thinking. It's unfortunate, however, that he was unable to laud the play of the current basketball team without firing off a shot at the Fab Five.
Frank's a smart guy, and a smart guy should have been more careful in parsing the past-tense nature of Jalen's comments.
This would be one of the great times in his career for Frank to say that he's sorry, a la Jalen and Grant Hill kissing and making up in the Op-Ed pages of the New York Times or on ESPN.
I'd like to see Beckmann do that, because first and foremost it would be the right thing and the smart thing to do. I'd also like to see Frank do it, because he's a remarkably fine talent on the Michigan football radio network. It would be good for the University for Frank to be more accurate, and that would not involve painting the Fab Five with a broad brush.
I'm forgiving of Beckmann because, let's remember, Jalen brought some of this on himself. Jalen deliberately pushed his filmed comments to the edge. It was frankly brilliant on Jalen's part, if the goal was to promote the documentary. Jalen provoked Grant Hill, just as effectively as he apparently provoked Frank Beckmann. If Beckmann is an old out of touch racist, what does that make Grant Hill? Jalen may be retired as a player, but he has clearly not lost his touch as a provocateur.
And I'm also forgiving of Beckmann, to the extent that there was some serious wrongdoing -- by Webber at least -- that badly hurt the University, that people who have been close to the Athletic Department for the past 10 years+ (like Beckmann) are all too familiar with.