alternate headline: man does job
I just had a vision of Desmond negging fools to Bolivian.
i just got an image of people negging desmond to oblivion and not knowing it. even funnier.
Is that you?
...reads MGoBlog, as I know for a fact he reads other Michigan-themed message boards. He has said so himself.
If being upset with the state of the program is "irrational," that line is getting pretty long.
As a former player and real contributor to the football program why would they get in line behind fat guys who sit on there couch and watch the game they built to what it is?
Thanking all my real fans for their support I wouldnt have made it this season witout you guys...thank you
Touiteur • 11/27/10 8:00 PM
Desmond is entitled to his opinion, but he has not been in RR's camp since almost the beginning of RR's tenure. And I am not criticizing him for his opinion. He is knowledgeable (more so than me), but it is at the end of the day just his opinion.
Wasn't Desmond beating the bare cupboard drum pretty hard in 2008? I really don't remember him being clearly outside the RR camp from the beginning.
What is Desmond talking about with a "tie"?
Posters mentioned his red tie during College Gameday.
People were tweeting at him upset that he wore a red tie yesterday.
I understand these guys are upset, but their alma mater needs support now. The last thing we need is to be kicked while we're down by former players.
What did they say that could be construed as kicking us while we are down? I didn't think they said anything that could be categorized as unfair or malevolent. In fact, I would say our performance yesterday was more of a kick in the gut to them than the other way around.
They are the ones that have literally bled and sweat for the school, sacrificing their bodies and becoming heroes to so many of us. Probably more than us, they expect greatness both on and off the field. If they want to express concern about the direction of the program, I will listen with all ears!
that many who support Michigan feel, only perhaps more so because they played. We are proud to be Michigan grads, and Michigan football contributes to that feeling. I think the former players have, with the occasional exception, been extremely supportive, or at least restrained, about Rodriquez over the past couple of years.
Like 15 year-olds, texting each other. I regard it as embarassing, to themselves and the University.
u guys r 2 cool.
As former players they are entitled to say whatever the Hell they want with this being Rich's third year.
Let's clarify terms here, sport.
The former players have every "right" to say any goddamned thing they want. And then be held accountable for what they say. It's a great, big, free-speech world.
The former players are not, I'd suggest, "entitled" to say whatever they want. Ordinarily, absent a gift, you have to pay for "entitlement." The current team, the current coaches; they have put in the work this season, they know what the progression has been. They are "entitled."
One more thing: All of this information was, you should know, pulled from Freep.com. I don't care one way or another about positng Free Press content. It's fine by me. I like the OP and what he has done, personally. (+1 for you, Wolverine 1987.) But just remember that this tiny selection of 4-5 Tweets was selected by a Free Press staffer. Edited, as it were, to Freep specifications.
We, or at least I, have no idea what Twitter-feeds were examined. Wanna bet that some low-level sports staffer worked for several hours to pluck the few most inflammatory Tweets he could find in the entire blogosphere, from the most recognizable names that might appeal to readers?
Ordinarily, absent a gift, you have to pay for "entitlement." (Source: Section 1)
No, by definition, you do not pay for entitlements:
An entitlement is a guarantee of access to benefits based on established rights or by legislation. (Source: Wikipedia)
O snap, if it's on wikipedia it must be true!
I think that you are both right. Someone generally has to pay for an entitlement, but it is often not the recipient himself that pays for it.
These tweets were from the horses mouth and unchanged. Each of those tweets showed up around the start of the 3rd qtr yesterday. I was a little heartbroken that the former players were actually calling for a change out in the open like that. I believe they have the right to say what they want but as former players and potential boosters to the program, there is a time and place to hang your alma mater out to dry. I was happy to see that Braylon didn't float something out there derogatory to the program. He and his family did go see the movie "Faster" yesterday though for all those interested. I did see a few of our very own contributors to the board dance on the edge of the OP listed tweets.
I never meant to imply that the Freep edited the content of the Tweets. That would be an outrageous and inconceivable act of linguistic vandalism, so in the case of the Freep we probably have to be clearer about that.
No; what I meant to suggest was that of all the Tweets, from all the "former players," in all the gin-joints -- the Freep staff picked these five.
Did you turn in your brain when you sit at the GameDay table?
There is no way in hell the desmond just happened to wear a red freaking tie yesterday.....no way. He is NOT happy with the program right now, and hasn't really been subtle about it either.
I'm not totally sure where i am about the coach for next year, but one great thing about a new coach would be ditching all this M hate in the media, and get some of these former guys back on board a bit.
Varsity, if this is what those guys are like, why would you want them back?.... just asking.
just because they are pissed and voice their opinion, doesn't make them traitors from the program. it would be great to have all these recent players on board, and be vocal in their support. herbie is a tuos slappy, and everyone knows that. desmond is our face in the major media, and it sucks that he isn't outwardly supportive
I know Desmond isn't thrilled about losing. But, I think on gamday he actually was one of the people advocating that a coach needs 4-5 years to get his players and system in place. I think Herbie disagreed with him. I may be wrong, I did do alot of drinking so everything but the score of the Game is fuzzy.
It wasn't your drinking. Desmond stated, although not specifically, that a coach needed to have his players in place, with experience, before he could be judged on how well, or not well, his program and system would be.
I have no problem with people criticizing aspects of the program that are definitively within RR's control. The special teams is one area that needs addressing. The only part of the special teams that seemed to improve over the course of the season was punting(yesterday can be overlooked as our punter was held out). The FG kicking never got better, and one could say, was never very good since he's been here. The return games should be much better than they are, given the speedy athletes we have.
I do, however, have a problem with people dumping on RR as a coach when the offense has improved, and has the potential to be tops not only in the B10, but nationally as well. I do have a problem with people dumping on RR as a coach when the defense, which has had to start inexperienced and non-recruited players because of injuries and transfers(which no one should necessarily hold over RR's head since none of us know the real reasons for the transfers), and the non-improvement of other players on the team while other players in the same positions have improved(Campbell vs Martin and RVB). I do have a problem when people are dumping on RR for those things, and then pulling a ND fan favorite in believing that bringing in the latest, greatest "hot" coach will magically solve all of the team's ills, completely discounting the real progress of the team and the potential, under RR to be a dominant program again in cfb for years to come.
The defense, as shown by the first half yesterday, will be better with more depth and experience. The offense, as shown by it's ability to move the ball on everyone this season, including some of the best B10 defenses, will be one of the better offenses in all of cfb when the youthful mistakes are no longer made. Given both of those, and with the recruiting that will allow us to "reload" and not "rebuild", we WILL be a top team for quite a while. I'd rather give the coach the BOD this season, given the flashes of brilliance the team has shown at times, rather than 'Hope" that bringing in another coach, whether it's Harbaugh or anyone else, can turn the team completely around in a year. That is the ND fan's viewpoint. They want it all, right now, without having to work towards greatness.
To all those who wish to make a change now, think of this: With RR, we could have a very, very good team next year, based on O and D improvement and resemble what Oregon's team is this year, or.........the team doesn't improve like it's thought to(although stats from O during RR's tenure tell otherwise) and we end up nearly the same as this year.
We take Harbaugh, if he would come, and we end up nearly in the same boat as we've been the past 3 years due to changing O philosophy, and maybe he has the same issues with the D that RR has had with transfers, injuries and players not developing. Then, if we are still a middling B10 team after 3 years of Harbaugh, what do we do then? Remember, RR had a history of turning programs into very good teams too before he came here, so to say that the same issues couldn't plague Harbaugh, as did RR, is not looking at things very objectively.
My dad always told me that, "the grass isn't always greener". What that means is that what can look good, doesn't always mean that it will be.
Thanks. At one point this morning, I was getting ready to go to work, thought it was Monday. I agree with most of what you said. I don't think we know how long it would take for Harbaugh to turn things around. You are certainly correct about the grass is greener statement.
I just don't think it's Harbaugh or bust. I want to get it right this time if we do let Coach Rod go. I always thought he should get 4 years, the faith was shaken yesterday though. As for Harbaugh, no matter what people say, I think he is a excellent coach, I just can't stand him outside of football.
the last 3 years, I want a coach who our opponents can't stand, because of the way his team plays and how he kicks their butts on the field. The state of the program now is at an all time low. We haven't beaten a team in the B10, with a winning record in three years. I absolutely HATE the way now Sparty fans spout off about how they want "RR around for many years to come" and how Buckeye fans have gotten to the point of "feeling sorry" about the state of our program.
I was "All in" for coach RR for the last 3 years. I have been more involved and excited about the direction of our program the last couple of years, since I was a student at Mich back in 90'. But my faith in his ability to lead this program out of this mess, has been slowly beaten out of me.
I want a program who is respected (and feared) by our opponents, for the way they play the game. It is going to take a significant amount of change in attitude / philosophy and performance next year, if RR is that guy.
is to be at Spartan Stadium next year, after a very big Michigan win, standing at the North end of their stadium where players and coaches exit, and loudly asking all of the Spartan coaches, very much up close and personal, if that was a win that they were 'happy to see Rich Rod get, so that he'd be kept around for the future.'
I guess we just have different goals and dreams.
Is that "RR-loyalists" are putting the team first, even if it means we all have to suffer for a little while.
Especially in the context of Rich Rodriguez, wherein we've had alums like Mike Rosenberg concocting a story to turn us in to the NCAA;
Where we've seen Board-Certified Specialists in Selfishness like former Wolverine Braylon Edwards take potshots at Rodriguez in the press;
And where we've had thousands upon thousands of so-called fans join in the torch-and-pitchfork parade led by the media.
It's really ironic -- you don't seem to see that the current position of the press has been, that they have made Rich Rodriguez's job as difficult as they possibly could make it, and now they are criticizing him for not having done better at that job.
I didn't start the shit with the MSU assistant coach(es). Just like James Rogers didn't start the shit with Chris Spielman over Jordan Kovacs.
We haven't beaten a team in the B10, with a winning record in three years.
correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't Illinois 5-3 when we played them? just curious.
a B10 team that finished with a winning record.
that Illinois was 5-3 at the time we beat them this season. However, to be fair, I think the point of the post is that Michigan has failed to beat a B10 team that has had a winning B10 record during RR's tenure. In 2008, neither Wisconsin nor Minnesota finished with winning B10 records; last year Indiana did not finish with a winning B10 record; and this year Illinois finished with a 4-4 record in the B10 -- that's the best B10 record of any of the B10 teams that RR has beaten. The stat that gives me the shakes is that during the last 3 years Mark D'Antonio has 2 B10 wins at Michigan Stadium. RR has 3.
"We haven't beaten a team in the B10, with a winning record in three years."
OK, but this stat can be misleading. For example, this year there are precisely 3 teams in the Big Ten with a winning conference record - Wisconsin, OSU and MSU. Those teams are currently ranked #4, #6 and #7, respectively, are all extraordinarily senior-laden teams, and Wisconsin and MSU have their best teams in decades. We all recognize that Michigan is not currently a top ten team, and were not expected to be this year. Should RR be fired for not doing something that nobody thought we would be doing this year?
say anything about firing RR? he stated some facts that make the coach look bad and people snap back instantly.. it's not RR's fault..he should get 2 more years!
Heres a fact for you. If we were a good team and beat those 3.. none of them would break the top 10 ..MSU and Wsconsin would be around #20 teams...
And where did I say that he should get 2 more years? We didn't have the horses to win when RR arrived. He is neither blameless in the current state of the team, nor is he completely to blame. Anybody saying otherwise is mistaken.
So, with regard to your "fact" - if we had beaten those three top-ten teams then we probably also would have beaten mediocre Iowa and PSU teams. Holy crap, we should be undefeated! RR should definitely go for taking this can't-miss national championship team to a 7-5 record. The way they play it almost looks like we have a first year starter at QB and a ton of freshmen in the secondary . . .
If that is true it is totally bush league. "Tradition" demands loyalty. Period.
Desmond actually usually wears the opponents colors on gameday (generally on his tie). It's a tradition of sorts.
but if Jay Feely wants to help the program, he can come back and give a kicking camp to our kickers. Same goes for Desmond with our punt and kick returners. If they want to see something change so freaking bad then come back and mentor some of these kids in the off-season and help make the program great again. If they are gonna keep their knowledge to themselves and sit back and criticize then they're not much better than some of the posters on the board here.
What up, Desmond!
I am really getting tired of this shit from our explayers.
For all the talk about "Michigan Man" and the "Michigan Family" our explayers are setting a wonderful example for our fans.
I don't take much too seriously, but I love my family, and I love the University of Michigan. Everyone has problems in their family and everyone can relate to having family members that have let you down. So what do you do during that time?
Do you do what you can to help them succeed? Do you facilitate a positive environment for them? Or, do you voice your displeasure for kin and your enemies alike to hear?
The route some of our family members are taking is disturbing.
And this is what I was talking about. Desmond is in the media now and has a stage and what is he doing? Taking shots etc.
Yes we are down, we have a young team and we won 7 games. But its time to rally not fall apart. Rich is our coach and the buck should stop there so I get the backlash on him. But somebody needs to step and ask how do we get better?
These guys gave a lot more for the program than most of us. I might personally disagree, but I'm not going to criticize them for voicing their opinion of the current program.
and i am not trying to say that they should feel one way or another.
but if you are in a position of influence, air the criticism and displeasure behind closed doors. go speak to brandon, or reduce your donation...whatever you think you need to do.
no matter what you think, the end goal is for michigan to get better. if brandon thinks it's a new guy that will get it done then so be i., for now RR is the guy and until someone says otherwise people within the UofM family should do everything in their power to support our coaches and players.
guys that gave a lot to the program should understand more than anyone that our current players, who are also giving a lot, need the backing of former players. i'd like to see those explayers voice their displeasure to the faces of mike martin, denard, kovacs, and the other hundred good kids we have come to know on this team.
if we expect our players to; perform on the field, succeed in the classroom, be good citicizens, and represent the university well otherwise then I don't see why we can't expects our explayers to support the university in public.
and you are better suited to say what they should or should not say, tweet, do, etc? Maybe they think that the best thing for the program is to facilitate a change. OR maybe they got caught up in the heat of another ass kicking like most of us? Whatever the reason, some middle age twit doesn't have the right to question their loyalty bc he bought a Michigan sweater or tickets.
players and they are just as displeased and have felt "shutout" of the family lately. They are Bo's players. You can't point fingers at the players who helped built the tradition of excellence and success when they see their Alma Mater slide to this level. If hs kids looking at colleges truly ignore the tradition and history of the schools they are looking at and care only about the recent past, then this staff is likely relegated to 3-star recruits with a smattering of a 4-star here and there. The few exceptions notwithstanding, that won't get it done in the BigTen; hence, the Spielman comment, " a bunch of backups at Indiana."
@L_Carr97: so u didn't like 3 loss seasons? what up now bitches?
speaking out when you feel things are taking a wrong turn. The Michigan team that the ex-players watched yesterday is a far cry from what they were when they went to Columbus. If they didn't care at all, which is a greater travesty, then they would say and do nothing. Call it what you will, but this program is slipping and bordering on a ND type path. ND has not been relevant for 15 years.
They weren't tweeting about Hart, Henne and Long losing to OSU year after year under Lloyd. Why not??
Because Twitter wasn't around back then
Instead of getting embarrassed off the field. We've only lost by at least 30 to OSU 6 times. Twice under Rich. Before that, twice under Bump. So it never happened even once in the Bo tree. So they're not used to it.
Yeah... that must be it. It has nothing to do with anything else, for sure.
I was yelling some harsh things at my TV around 2:00 PM that I regretted around 9:00 PM. That loss brought out a lot of anger. Fortunately, I don't have ten thousand followers. Those guys should think before they tweet, but I bet even the most staunch Rodriguez supporter was sending rage-texts to friends every time a Buckeye flashed his cute little 'O' gloves.
It's ok for the players to raise flags. We are who we are until we get over the hump. We all expect better. This is truth. But let's not do anything irrational as we move forward. Let's make sure we build on what's in place.
Hopefully, we'll look back and say this was the bottom.
As much as I supported Rodriguez and what he was trying to do, the passage of time and the results on the field make me think the radical route we took away from playing winning football was unnecessary.
That is probably the crux of this. You can be interesting. It is cool. It beats boring. But you better win.
Hey, I've got an idea! Let's put a lot of stock in what Jamie Morris says, who was fired by the AD for being sneaky and retarded!
So, what are you having?
Water with lemon. I'm on a diet.
And props for saying it. Trust me -- if Brandon could fire Jamie Morris twice, he would.
Exacty. His comment is the one that got me the most fired up. Fuck him. Glass houses Mr. Morris, glass houses.
Morris's credibility may be in question, but what about all the other former players who are concerned? Think this is a normal state of affairs?
I think this is a normal state of affairs for a bunch of whiny people who don't understand the reality of the situation.
Magnus-how come when I click your link, I go to the GNC website.
lol I must have copied and pasted the wrong link. I was sending an e-mail to a family member to tell them what I want for Christmas from GNC.
I'll fix it in a second.
I think this is a normal state of affairs for a bunch of whiny people who don't understand the reality of the situation.
In other words, a number of people who played college football at Michigan understand the reality of running a college football program less than you, a random internet guy. Right.
No, I'm saying they're being a bunch of whiny brats - just like a lot of people on this here message board.
Haha, when this team isn't playing underclassemen at the majority of positions and wins 10 games next year with still a lot of experience to be gained they'll be right back on the bandwagon. And I will laugh at them.
Or the D and ST could suck it up again and we go 7-5 and RR gets fired. Either way I don't think the former players have any clue whats going on in AA, they just see M being overmatched two weeks in a row and are frustrated about it just like we all are. Unfortunately their ignorance isn't going to help us win and get the caliber of recruits that they were and that we need to compete with OSU.
If they dont support our team....they aren't Michigan Men. our players are out there playing their hearts out. Rich Rod has handled himself with class throughout this. He has maintained disclipline with the players, not allowing any "show boating" or off field issues....he is the definition of a Michigan Man. Go Blue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hmmm...I really hope this is a joke, but I can't tell. Please confirm or deny...
great example these former players are to Bo's legacy. They are now part of the problem ... why not offer some support and help the program. Sad.
No one took it harder than the current team and they are who matters now
The only tweet I would respect if it came out is if Braylon came out and tweeted "Roundtree's lack of focus on saturday shows he is not yet worthy of #1 jersey."
That would be the truth.
Braylon never ever dropped a pass.
Were any of these guys incredibly consistent or dependable as freshmen and sophomores?
You can take an all-star team of former wolverines as underclassmen and they'd probably lose to that buckeye team as well.
Judging these kids before they have a chance to grow up is kind of dick.
I'm willing to bet that a senior Roundtree doesn't drop those passes and that a senior Denard doesn't go his entire college career without a w against the bucks
Just my 2
When you announce to the world you want the #1 jersey you don't get to drop passes and still be in contention. Yes he has more time to earn it but, it wont be wearing it next year.
Braylon missed the easy catches that didn't mean much. He stepped up when the team needed him to do so. That is why he had the #1 jersey.
I thought the same thing myself. Well said sir!
That nefarious anti-RR conspiracy just extends its reach longer and longer.
These guys all played football at Michigan and we are just fans. They have something invested in this program and surely know their football. I feel like if they were frustrated before they probably kept it to themselves or at least spoke of it privately amongst each other. If they are so frustrated now that they will make their frustrations public, it really must be time for a change. Steve Breaston is one of the best players to put on a Winged Helmet and if he feels this way, man I have a hard time arguing against him.
Stevie Breaston. That's really productive. I'm sure you know more about the inner workings of Michigan's program than him anyway, I mean you have a lot of MGoPoints.
What's the old saying, "Be careful what you wish for, you just might get it?" I remember for years wishing we had the team speed to keep up with all those flashy teams from the SEC and PAC 10, those years way back when, when we'd play them and get tore up, especially by the PAC 10, we were the slow, plodding Big 10.
Now, we went for the speed and the flash, but left big and tough far behind, and now we are getting beat by the big and tough. Kind of damned either way we go, but I do think we need to pick an identity and stay with it, and make sure we are the best and what we chose to do.
Not drunk enough yet today to be completely coherent, oh, and Hillshire Farms summer sausage, club crackers and Blue Moon together is crazy delicious.
but tough? You know not of what you speak.
If you are going to literally lift something word for word from another publication, isn't a link or citation called for? I know, rabble rabble freep, but come on.
. . . who cares what some guys now playing in the NFL (who once played four years at Michigan and won championships) think? What do they really know about Michigan football? I would much rather hear what 20-year-old current students who have been watching Michigan for three years think. They are the ones who have all the answers.
My default attitude toward former Wolverines who have played in the NFL is "worshipful." For me to go out of my way to publicly criticize them, it takes some doing on their part.
I'd like to think that if Steve Breaston, or Braylon or Jay Feely or any of those guys want to have a word with Dave Brandon, all they need to do is to call him. That's the way it ought to be, and that's the way I very much expect it is.
But when those guys start blabbing away on Twitter, then they are the ones who are acting like "20 year-old current students" on MGoBlog. Actually, as far as their Twitter content goes, it's not even really up to MGoBlog standards.
I have no idea how you can cavalierly dismiss the opinions of a guy who was actually part of this college football program - a guy who played on Big Ten and national championship teams.
Although I disagree with the format of their complaints, they're not wrong. This UM team is a shell of it's former self.
We aren't hearing a lot of former M players speak up in favor of RR. If they were doing so, we'd hear about it one way or another. I can think of Graham, who voiced support at some point during the season. That's about it. Am I missing others? Or are there no others?
I think the key here is that many of the comments are being made by guys who now play in the NFL. They are comparing teams of years past that were loaded with NFL talen to a team that was highly talent-depleted upon RR's arrival. Michigan has had very few players drafted in RR's tenure, and none of his own recruits have been here long enough to be drafted. The implication (which we on here already know) is that the team Lloyd handed over was not up to the typical Michigan standard.
Like somebody said above, Hart, Henne and Long got drafted into the NFL, and none of them beat OSU either. They are correct that Michigan is a shell of its former self, but if they are implying that this is entirely due to RR, they are mistaken.
This program is built on guys like Desmond. He can say whatever he wants.