Forgotten 5
A lot of posts about defensive recruiting and the need for Lb's and overall defensive needs, but looking at the depth chart by class I think everyone is overlooking the fact we have a lot of bodies in the system we just need to wait a little bit for them to hopefully develop. We have 5 athletic guys with various levels of recruiting hype waiting in the wings Bell, Hawthorne, Jones, Demens and Smith along with Fitzgerald. You never know when things are going to kick in, these guys have ability. Someone will surprise us. LB is very difficult to play and takes a while to learn...just ask Burgess, Crable and Harris who were the backbone of our 2006 defense who up until that year were marginal or disappointing in their performance. Don't give up on Fitz and the rest of the Frosh's just yet.
October 6th, 2009 at 1:44 PM ^
I don't think people are giving up on the young guys on our defense as much as questioning how we're going to handle bigger and better offenses as this year progresses. Young guys have much more room to grow, but some of the older guys (Ezeh, etc.) on defense are missing assignments.
I'm not as worried about the future as I am about the rest of this season. Some players are going to have to step up big time to help out the offense.
October 6th, 2009 at 3:49 PM ^
...why haven't any of these guys seen the field? Makes you wonder whether their high school talent is translating a the college level. There is certainly ample opportunity considering the amount of time the D spends on the field and the need for fresh bodies plus injuries and underperfomance. Just makes me a little concerned that maybe these guys aren't panning out considering that walk ons have stepped in front of some of these hot shot recruits at DE, LB and safety.
October 6th, 2009 at 4:55 PM ^
You've gotta remember that ideally almost all freshmen would redshirt. Coming from HS s&c, coaching, etc, it can be incredibly hard to get to a level where you can compete with college juniors and seniors. Some can do it, most benefit from an extra year. Our program is still building and planning for the future, which means we need to give as many kids as possible that extra year.
October 6th, 2009 at 1:47 PM ^
I thought this would be about the Fab 5, and the broken ties with the University.
At any rate, I'm with you on the LB situation.
October 6th, 2009 at 2:08 PM ^
..but I thought it was going to be about the five starters who were displaced by the Fab Five.
October 6th, 2009 at 3:42 PM ^
And I thought it would be about some guys who came off the bench during that time.
October 6th, 2009 at 1:54 PM ^
We just need to keep creating depth and competition at every position. Doing so at linebacker would help a lot of the younger guys out IME. So hopefully we lock down a highly touted LB or two in this years class to help the position out some.
October 6th, 2009 at 1:55 PM ^
I think the OP is right on about the future. It seems like every post I read on here has somebody freaking out about our need for tons of linebacker recruits. That is a position where it usually takes guys a while to make an impact. Those 5 freshmen linebackers have a lot of natural ability and should only improve. Not saying that we shouldn't recruit that position (and every other one on the field) hard this year, but to think any true freshman is more likely to make a bigger impact next season than these guys currently on the roster is a bit of a stretch.
Our big recruiting need is in the secondary where we are really short on bodies, but both positions can only benefit from the fact that we only lose 2 scholarship players off the defense next year while adding 10+ new freshmen.
October 6th, 2009 at 2:17 PM ^
I still think they will eventually pull one or two from the other side of the ball for the secondary. I have no idea who they will be, but things like that usually "come out in the wash."
October 6th, 2009 at 2:23 PM ^
I doubt the linebacker coaching more than the players themselves.
October 6th, 2009 at 2:41 PM ^
We have plenty of LBs just not very many big ones. And I know the coaches/scheme no longer wont for Carl Diggs or Johnny Thompson types, but still you want at least one that's at least 230 in there. Comparing the July 08 roster to the current one:
Demens gained 10 lbs to 236, Fitz added 2 to 232 and B. Smith lost a pound to drop to 209, weird for a guy 6'3".
Of the true frosh, Hawthorne's at 198 and we really can't expect him to get big enough to be a block-chucking LB; he'll be more like a Brown replacement. M. Jones is listed at 203/6'2" and should be able to put on some Barwis fiber. And Bell is already at 220 so, yeah, he should get up there by next year.
I don't want to say Demens and Fitz can't make contributions some day, but I'm just worried that if they can't bump Obi this year for any meaningful reps, it doesn't appear likely next year either.
October 6th, 2009 at 3:07 PM ^
critical save for the Mike, in a lot of cases. Plenty of smallish LBs who are damn good. Sean Spence at Miami comes to mind. He blew people up at less that 200 lbs. last year as a freshman. Brown is playing at what, 210 maybe 215? Larry Foote played at about 215-220 if I recall. Speed, instinct, and ability can make up for size in a lot of cases.
You're right it that doesn't appear Demens or Fitzgerald are pushing Obi for PT.
October 6th, 2009 at 4:48 PM ^
was one of the best LB's to ever play for Michigan. He was small.
Judging from what I've seen I think UM is at least 2 years away from having a good defense. I'm hopefull they can be better next year, but they just have so many holes and talent gaps.
October 7th, 2009 at 5:43 AM ^
To all who say, "Whoa, these guys are like, freshmen and sopohmores"--I hate to do it (it's ghey)--but kudos to you for being observant football fans who understand that not every freshman is a Tate Forcier waiting to take over the entire world. And the sophs are learning a new system after one year of one system after--NO FUCKING COLLEGE EXPERIENCE.
Guys--let's face it--just about every UM fan was questioning the defense BEFORE the season started--wondering just how the hell and where the hell any defense would come from outside of Warren and Graham. Now, after the best defesive performance of he season--we are wondering why untested freshmen and sophomores are not playing?
Let's say you throw those guys in against MSU--think they are held to 20 with us having a chance to win it at the end? I don't.
I know a lot of you are Rivals and Scout guys. Rivals, I cannot speak about, other than to say there appears (from what I've gathered) to be a growing anti-Rodriguez sentiment, expecially WRT to recruiting. As for Scout, though, King Beaver has been saying for MONTHS to take this season for the roller-coaster ride it promises to be. Yet, here many of you are, searching the intranets like chickens with their heads cut off, running from message board to message board in search of answers, any answers, and just hoping someone will tuck you into bed at night in your Michigan jammies, give you your bottle, your stuffed Bo, and tell you everything will be all right.
It just isn't reasonable to expect that the even younger guys than those playing are going to all jump in and contribute. And with the team heading into MSU undefeated--why would there be any reason for the coaching staff to start juggling lineups? And again, coming off a pretty damn solid defensive effort--why would they panic?
And whose to say the younger guys aren't pushing things in practice? I think they probably are--but the games have been too tight to take those kinds of chances--and again, there we were with a legitimate shot to steal the victory--and in no small part due to the 60-minute effort of the fucking defense!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now, before hitting the "save" button, I went back and re-read the OP and the replies, and this is a "general rant" about the Panic at the Defense our fan base seems to be now enveloped in. This thread has an overriding tone of "hey, it's all right, don't swallow your pacifier just yet" that shows there is at least SOME patience still out there despite the tragedy of this past weekend.
October 7th, 2009 at 7:42 AM ^
and it makes me feel dirty.
Shame on you posters for putting me in this position!