If I was better at computers, or for that matter, if I did not still refer to things like this as "computers," I would post some side by side images of their runs or do something else awesome like that. Since the best that I got is "computers" and nothing more, I am just going to ask the question without some failed link or anything else. Has anybody else noticed that Braxton Miller appears to run like a 3.6 forty? It may be that he is just better at putting himself in the position to show straight line speed or that his offense does so for him, but he seems to accelerate faster than Denard and when he tops out I am not sure there is anybody faster in the country. I knew he was quick but I am watching the second half replay of Nebraska v. Ohio and I be like dang. Denard may be a more consistent and reliable runner, but he may be the second fastest quarterback in the conference.
Football speed - Is Braxton faster than Denard?
Short answer: no.
Long answer: noooooooooooooooooo.
I think Denard's way faster than Braxton. That being said, Braxton has some moves that are straight out of EA's NCAA Football.
Braxton definitely got chased down from behind vs Nebraska. Have you ever seen anyone catch Denard?
Miller has some great lateral speed and excellent agility, but his speed is not elite. He's a pretty powerful runner too.
Yeah, he got caught from behind by 3 different Nebraska players on one of his big runs I happened to catch last night. No way he's faster than Denard. I do think he has some better moves though.
Yeah but Denard has both inreidble vision and patience
Denard gets caught from behind a lot, actually. It's something I notice frequently. He's still faster than Braxton, though.
You're confusing getting caught from behind with getting tackled from behind. Yes, Denard has been tackled numerous times by a player who started behind him, but it's never because the guy gained any straight-line ground on him, it's always because Denard comes to a stop to make a big cut or starts to run laterally downfield. For instance, in the game yesterday, there were a few times where he was 20-30 yards downfield and tried to make huge lateral moves and he pretty much came to a stop, then when he started to accelerate again he got tripped up from behind by a guy already running that direction.
In the instance I mentioned with Miller he had no one in front of him and simply got caught from behind. I don't recall Denard ever being caught in a foot race like that.
caught Denard from behind a few times last year (in the Nebraska game for those of you who don't remember him)
Denard clocks in at 0.91 Usain Bolt's.
Braxton is only .78 Usain Bolt's
i think braxton miller is a little slower than denard, but is more elusive in the pocket and has better instincts on when to run when a play breaks down. he reminds me of vince young in that way
Pretty much read my mind.
He looks like he has slowed a lot since he first came on the scene
that is crazy talk!
he doesn't break as many 80+ touchdowns because he has been playing for 3 years now and everyone is keying in on his big play ability
he is the same crazy fast denard
He also doesn't have the same spread genius inventing him plays to get massive holes to run through. Teams are also keeping a safety deep on case Denard breaks through.
who knows how "elusive" Denard might really be in the pocket if he had been working out of the spread and not schooling himself to stay home for two years.
Not crazy talk at all. Denard has put on some good weight since he showed up, but it's still weight. He's still crazy fast obviously, but I have also noticed him slow down just a touch these past two years. Not more than .05 on the 40, but it's something I have also noticed.
So you can measure .05 with your naked eye?
Eh, I've just noticed him slow a bit, maybe a .1? I don't think it's that big of a difference, but my gut definitely says he's slowed down a littl ebit.
Well my gut has caused me to slow down a bit as well...
Denard seems to pick spot on the sidelines and run OB rather than taking a shot if there's a safety with a good angle on him. That makes him look a little slower than earlier in his career when he'd run headlong into a hit, but no one's gonna catch him from behind.
Denard is 4th in the country and first among AQ conference players averaging 135 ypg and is putting up 7.5 ypc (a full yard better than 2010).
I suppose it is possible for a guy to slow down and still be the most dynamic offensive player in the country, but I doubt it.
Stop making sense and using facts. How is that any fun?
he's a little more deceptive runner, which makes players to be a little hesitant when trying to get the angle on him, and thus look faster (which I disagree that he does).
on the blog today.
and the answer to your question: HELL NO!
Prepare to be negged. Considering half of this board was making arguments on behalf of Denard beating Usain Bolt in a short sprint, this could be trouble.....
fear being "negged." I have been around for a while. And if you don't think Denard has lost a step or two in terms of pure speed since 2010 you have not been watching close enough.
And it is a slow day on the blog, a real slow day, I would not have posted this if there were more to talk about, but since there isn't, and people still seem to be blogging.......
And for the record, why no front page muppets? was the worst thread of the week. I don't mind being second.
At least we got to discuss Muppets in the "Why no muppets" thread.
Muppets > Miller
I won the coveted "worst thread of the week award" as bestowed by ijohnb?
But don't give up on your masterwork just yet. Based on the respective up and down votes right now I'd say your treatise on B1G QB speed is slightly more disliked than my fervent plea for more muppet exposure.
Denard's masterwork (full game);
Martin Scorcese's masterwork;
Grunge-alt/rock masterwork (full album, any band, 1990-1996)?
As of 3:26 EST
Yours: 1 up & 31 down
Mine: 3 up & 24 down
Muppets < hated Miller v Robinson speed comparison
Not by much mind you and in many ways this the turd telling puke it smells bad but hey...the people have spoken.
I like you.
Denard - ND 2010
Scorsese - taxi driver or gangs of New York
Grunge - ten. Pearl jam
a faster forty than Justin Gatlin did, I don't see that as an example of an unreasonable argument.
That said, I doubt he's gotten slower in a way we could detect. It seems like he's not as fast but the biggest factor there is seeing him over four years. We're used to seeing his speed, and that has an effect on our perception. The other factor, IMO, is that we see him running at full speed less now than we did in September 2010, for a lot of reasons.
Denard has definitely slowed. His acceleration is not as quick anymore and doesn't have the Vick-type moves that Braxton seems to have. He's more one-cut and go with the occasional cutback at the end of a long run.
That said, Denard is still probably faster in a dead sprint. Braxton looks faster because he is more elusive
as someone previously mentioned, he reminds me a lot like Vince Young when he runs. He is more ellusive, and makes good decisions when to run.
WIth that being said, there is no player in the country that can catch Denard when he is running at full speed from behind.
I'll just echo what others have said here, Denard has the best straight line speed of any quarterback in the NCAA today (and perhaps throughout history), but Braxton is more elusive and instinctual. They both make fantastic cuts, but Braxton's jukes and spin moves are some of the best I've ever seen, and his straight line speed isn't bad either.
This is probably the worst thread of the week.
Pack it up folks, TheGhostofYost doesn't like the thread. It was nice while it lasted.
Judging by the dowvotes, I'm not the only one. Here, I'll summarize all the responses: No.
summarize for you, nobody cares about you. If you don't want to discuss this go to a different post.
Apparently you do, since you bothered to respond. But seriously, thanks for bringing this up. There's nothing I enjoy more than reading about how great Ohio State's quarterback is. In fact, that's pretty much the only reason I come on here.
you have come to the right place. Ghost of Yost, when other people talk about "Michigan fans" in a derogatory way and you wonder why, the answer is you. Yes, I can discuss a good Ohio quarterback.
If you don't want to discuss the topic shut up and leave.
It's much more fun to just stay and whine.
Not faster but he's a hellof al lot bigger and harder to tackle when he's hit.
FWIW both are somewhat less than wonderful when asked to use their arms instead of their legs but I'd have to say that Braxton is more less wonderful than Denard when it comes to passing.
No. Miller got caught from behind fairly easily while at a dead sprint yesterday. That doesn't happen to denard.
Denard would have never been caught on a run like that.
He's so fast, that he makes fast people look...not fast.
Being fast isn't everything.
On the field yesterday. Martinez is just as fast if not faster than Miller. Neither one is even close to having Denard's speed.
The only reason Braxton may look faster is that he is in an offense that takes full advantage of his skills now. With that said, Denard looked pretty awesome yesterday now that Borges has compensated. Denard is also faster upstairs than Braxton.
know about that last part. Denard seems to be improving in terms of deciding when to run and his decision making, but Miller looks ahead of his time in terms of decision making.
No, but Braxton doesn't need to be. Braxton is a lot more elusive, has better vision, and is a stronger runner than Denard.
No. Braxton is bigger which allows him to run through spaces that Denard gets slowed on. But Denard is more elusive and a shade faster. I agree that Miller has better vision, but that could also be a product of being coached in, and playing in a system that fits his strengths.
I obviously haven't watched Denard as much as I have Braxton. However, from what I've seen in terms of elusiveness, it seems like Denard runs in a straight line and doesn't really try to juke defenders. Braxton will shift directions and has much better moves. It might be that Denard is fast enough that he can pull that off, but I think that, in traffic, Braxton is better at making guys miss.
I've watched a lot of Denard and a good amount of Braxton. No Denard does not make large juke moves like Braxton, but that's not his style. He has the subtle elusivenss where he uses his speed combined with little moves to slip by people. There's a reason why Denard so often gets positive yards even out of crappy situations. Braxton looks flashy, but he also stops/slows significantly a lot to make his moves, but his size helps him from getting brought down when he stops. Obviously both seem to work pretty well.
Hmmm, Robinson, Randle El, I don't see a Miller listed. Check back when he has a body of work.
I think Braxton is a better quarterback, but in terms of pure speed, I think Denard would wreck him in a 40 meter dash.
There is no way Braxton is faster than Denard.
but man, he sure is hard to bring down. i remember him dragging van bergen and martin with him on one of his runs.
taking half the defense for 5 yards during the Sugar Bowl, no?
Denard hits the hole with more speed and decisiveness than i've seen in awhile. He is an absolute rocket. He doesn't have the same start/stop ability as others in the game, but as far as both acceleration and speed... few match him. Braxton would not be amongst those few. Denard can fly and we won't see many like him.
stop/start is what I am identifying. It seems pretty clear, it I trust my fellow Mgoers, that Denard is faster than Braxton, but there is something to me that seems more threatening about Braxton's running style than Denard. With Denard, there always seems to be "that guy" or two that is in position to put Denard out of bounds before he really gets his stride, he seems to be one burst and if that is not enough to get him to the house there is nothing left in terms of a second gear (not that the first gear is not effective enough). Just saying, Braxton is much more dangerous with his legs than I would have guessed this time last year.
I actually thought about this last night and I quickly realized if Rich Rodriguez were still Denard's coach this wouldn't be a question.
Because Denard would be in a wheelchair from rubbing 30 times a game?
Also, I did t know that rr made Denard faster.
After last years under the lights ND game (I'd say at least a 20 rub game for me) I had to see a specialist for the extreme chafing. 30 would have hospitalized me for sure!
Braxton Miller has good football speed, but it's nothing compared to Tate Forcier's legendary football speed.
This was actually covered in a post a few months ago comparing the mobile QBs of the Big Ten.
Braxton Miller has elite change-of-direction ability. He does not have elite speed. He has crazy shake-and-bake moves that make people look stupid.
Denard doesn't use tricky moves. He merely changes direction faster that most players can. Denard is unquestionably faster; Miller can just fake people out.
I think Miller is every bit as dangerous as Denard because he has crazy moves in traffic for such a big guy. He may not be quite as much of a threat to bust one for the distance as Denard because of pure speed, but his ability to make people miss is really outstanding.
Vince Young was a freak because no 6-6 guy in college has ever had his speed or his elusiveness while being deceptively efficient at throwing the ball.
I don't think any QB in college has Denard's pure speed, but I've always thought that Pat White was a bit better pure runner than Denard, at least in terms of broken-field juking. However, that might be an artifact of White playing four years in an offense that was built exclusively to his skills, something Denard has not had the last two years.
I wouldn't trade Denard for any of them regardless.
Pat White was ridiculously good at running the zone-read; something Denard has never been great at. But then again if RR was still here, maybe the extra time getting coached on the intricacies of zone reads would have brought him to that level. But I still think Denard was a better pure runner. I don't remember White getting as many stright called runs for him as Denard did.
I don't think Miller is faster than Denard north and south, however I do think he is just as good at changing directions on a dime at high speeds as Denard is, which is what makes them both so hard to defend in the open field and/or one-on-one. The big advantage Miller has over Denard is that he is 6'3" 220 and Robinson is 6'0" 197 (although he looks more like 5'10" 185 to me). So Miller is the size of a linebacker and makes it harder to bring him down with one guy.
Now, the burning question, who is a better thrower...idk I've gone back and forth on this one. I've seen Robinson look much better in some situations and Miller in others. I think Miller makes better decisions and forces the ball less. I think Miller also throws a better deep ball. I think Robinson throws a better intermediate ball like the crosses, slants, outs, etc. I think they both struggle sometimes on the short drop offs, which makes no sense to me...that should be the easiest ball.
But, they are both incredible athletes, D-Rob is faster, Miller is bigger, they both have an insane ability to change directions at high speeds, they both struggle throwing at times. I just hope defending D-Rob in practice makes us better when we play OSU, but I am very concernred with our ability to contain Miller based on what I've seen from our contain thus far. Hopefully our best defender (Ryan) will be able to basically spy him all game.
Not even remotely close.
"Has anybody else noticed that Braxton Miller appears to run like a 3.6 forty? " - from the OP
Braxton Miller's listed 40-time is 4.47. I believe the fastest published time for Denard Robinson was 4.32, although his old recruiting pages at Scout and Rivals list a 4.44 time. If I am not mistaken, Bradley Roby and Devin Smith actually have better 40 times than Miller, so he's not even the fastest person on the team by that metric.
Denard is 1-0 against Braxton
I think both guys accelerate just as fast as each other, but Denard definitely wins in the top speed category. De'Anthony Thomas is probably the only player currently that could challenge Denard for "fastest player in college football."
Braxton's running game is more heavily dependent on his elusiveness, which he has in bunches. It literally looks like a video game when he makes defenders miss. Also on Braxton's 73-yard run last night where defenders caught up to him, I think it was more because he twisted his ankle a bit on a cut. Miller pulled off the run a little gimpy and had to sit for the rest of the drive.
Denard is definitely faster and makes better cuts(that run against AF), but I have to give the instincts and juking to Miller. When Miller is one on one in the open field, its over for whoever is in front of him. I've seen the first guy get a Denard a lot.
Denard has the quickest first step of any college football player I can recall seeing. No firm idea about top speed, but I'd be surprised if Braxton is faster.
He has an insance first step, but I remember a man named Vick that was beat him in the eye test.
Some still don't see a difference; probably what the OP is mixing up.
I think Braxton is quicker; that's the "east vs west" and "elusiveness" that many reference.
Denard doesn't possess elite level "quicks" like a Tavon Austin or Stephon Diggs. Those are the guys who will make you miss in a phone booth. His is still above average relative other football players.
He does have elite level straight line speed, though; he's one cut and GONE (ND 2010).
Gallon is another example of someone who is pretty quick but not exceptionally fast.
Did you ever see the Sport Science with Denard on it? He deccelerates to zero in less than 0.2 seconds and cuts at angles only matched by Arian Foster in their testing.
That's why I said he is "one cut and gone." Guys like Diggs and Austin are still a step above when making multiple moves or "jukes" in the open field.
We are talking about Dilithium here.
I heard someone say once, "When you have Denard, you can have everything."
I'm thinking at times Braxton may appear faster bcuz he's taller and takes bigger strides than Denard?
Yes, let's look at one data set with a very small sample size and then extrapolate. That totally makes sense since looking at more than game log I'd TOO painful and time consuming.
Then go be a Buckeye fan, I'd take Denard over anyone ever to wear those ugly colors in Ohio, Denard is forever a Michigan man for what he has done for his team. Love him, or leave us.
How can you make that comparison without accounting for the difference in the quality of the opposing defenses?
Does anyone think Miller will break Denard's rushing record? He may, but he will be a full time 4-year starter and Denard was only a 3-year starter if my memory serves me correctly Tate started most of 2009.
I think Braxton runs like a 3.3 40. You aren't giving him enough credit.
You're on drugs
Miller is not that fast. Not even close.
Denard is definitely faster, but Braxton is way harder to bring down. Get an arm around denard and he's down 8/10 times. Doesn't work that way with Braxton, sadly.
Denard is the all time rushing leader in the big ten. He makes people miss all of the time but is so darn fast he rarely needs to make rb style moves like Braxton does.
Really not even an argument.
The fastest official (I do emphasize official) 40 time by a QB was 4.33 by Michael Vick. Denard's 40 time has been clocked at 4.32, so if he equals or bests that in the combine next year, he will officially be considered the fastest QB in NCAA history (out of all the guys with proof from the combine at least). So, by you saying you think Braxton is faster than Denard, you are in essence saying Braxton is also faster than Vick, RGIII and every other quarterback that came before him.
Well, to put it as politely as I can, you sir, are a complete and utter moron. You couldn't even get a Buckeye fan to agree with you in this discussion.
This is even being debated. Are you kidding me? It's not even close.
What's all this "Braxton" stuff? Are we on a first-name basis with guys on Ohio now? That's just wrong.
Im not sure about Braxton Miller being faster than Denard but John Navarre had some elite speed in the pocket. Navarre is as quick and elusive as they get.
They make plays with their feet in different ways. Juking guys, advantage Braxton. Afterburner speed, advantage Denard. Reading blocks, Denard. Braxton throws fewer INTs but his accuracy is not elite.