Spartan fans and they never embellish anything, so it must be reality.
no wonder we hired Hunter Lochmann
Spartan fans and they never embellish anything, so it must be reality.
A guy who shot himself at a club? Devon Thomas was supposed to be the man and I dont think he plays in the league anymore. Cunningham doesnt play, Martin returned kicks for the Texans. Charles Rogers was a great talent but obviously not the most intelligent person in the world.
some big fat sluts while he was at MSU?
Who proofreads Mr. Nichol's work before he turns it into his prof?
Baseless, uninformed gut feeling: this kid will end up in the SEC or OSU. That being said I do want.
But it's a long time until his signing day.
Since MSU was more of a basketball decision, I'm guessing he goes back to his childhood favorite now that WR is his main concern and becomes a Wolverine.
Wolverine? No way! Even if he does in fact want to go football only, he would still want a program with solid basketball cred just in case...
... Oh, RIGHT! Now I get it!
Bring it on, Drake! Football. Basketball. Whatever.
We've got you covered, man!
That's actually a solid argument for Hoke and Co. against most of the other teams on that list. B1G basketball is next-level.
I hope you're right. Just something about about commiting to MSU so early, the positive comments about OSU and now a bunch of southern schools also being on his list makes me feel like Michigan isn't in the cards for him. Hope my gut is wrong, long time till signing day, yadda yadda.
that he will end up at OSU. His uncle said he grew up a Michigan fan, so that bodes well for us and poorly for Ohio.
God I love that the best coach MSU has had in a while can't recruit for shit.
Not trying to troll, but doesn't this fact make you guys worry more? Cause even without good recruiting, he's been ridiculously good against you guys.
Dantonio isn't good at landing big time recruits, but his staff is effective at identifying solid players. He was successful against RichRod, but the party is over. If you haven't notice, we have a new head coach who beat MSU in his 2nd year.
As for Dantonio, I have to stick up for him a little. At least he didn't learn how to cheat while under Tressell. Really sad how Buckeye fans celebrate a fired cheater. Pitiful.
You guys needed a last second field goal to beat them at home in a down year for them when they had no QB.
And Tress broke rules. It's not okay, but I appreciate him for the things he did right while he was at OSU. You guys celebrate Woodson like the second coming and he probably shouldn't have been eligible. In my mind, both are fine. They've both done more good than almost anyone. And honestly, throwing the "OSU celebrates a cheater" thing out doesn't change his record against UM. At this point, just accept it and move on.
why are you commenting here? because honestly, what you are saying has nothing to do with this thread. oh, and in case you didn't know, anytime someone starts with "not to [insert action here], BUT" that always means you are in fact performing that action.
sort of like, "i'm not racist, but..."
gotta love ohio state trolls
Asked an honest question about a comment directed at MSU and was then called pitiful for my fan base liking a former coach. Sorry, didn't realize I had stumbled into MLive instead of MGoBlog.
And the reason I started with "Not trying to troll" is because many users here see my username and neg me before reading all of my comment. Seems to be the best way to show that I'm trying to have legit conversation and not get attacked.
and the question was fine. In fact, I'd love to give you an in depth rundown, but a) it's late and b) I'm probably not the guy to give a great answer in the first place. In light of something great, this is what I'll add:
It seems to be very, very hard to sustain success by out-scouting everyone; that's why Peterson and Patterson are such hot commodities in the coaching world. Losing nearly every recruiting battle with Hoke is a big problem for Dantionio (and is a problem he didn't have before 2011), regardless of how well he can gameplan or coach players on sound/very sound defense. They might not turn into the scrubs everyone around here is hoping they will, and they might not lose seven in a row on this run, but it does seem the smart money is on MSU trending downwards relative to Michigan.
That last comment about MSU trending downwards relative to Michigan is rather silly. MSU can remain at the same level while Michigan gets better and MSU would still trend downwards relative to Michigan.
and Michigan getting better would mean more M wins relative to the last five years, right? That was the only point I was trying to make.
Its unfortunate, but you have two things working against you: (1) MGoMembers are always going to be leery of a Buckeye based on past history, and (2) Buckeye viewpoints are generally viewed under a microscope and picked apart. It means that you have to choose your words wisely. Not that you didn't, just giving a little unsolicited advice (in case its helpful).
All that said, I still have a hard time understanding why any Ohio fan would have any affection for Tressel. He screwed the 2012 team worse than any coach has screwed one team in years and years. By committing what essentially was purgery, he ensured that they would not get a chance to see how "good" they really were this year by competing in a bowl game (probably against Alabama?). I'll never understand the cheers he got when he returned to the 'Shoe, and I lost any respect I had for Gordon Gee when I heard they were allowing him back for that celebration. Personally, if I were a Buckeye fan, I would be disgusted.
You're right that it doesn't change his record...except that it does. The 2010 season was vacated by the NCAA.
Also, your boy Troy Smith was suspended because he was found to have taken $500 handshakes. You can make all the accusations you want about Woodson, but no such history exists. Aside from that, the recruiting bump that Ohio State got from playing ineligible players was potentially enormous. Take Maurice Clarett, Troy Smith, Terrelle Pryor, etc. away from Ohio State, and how many more games do they lose? How many top recruits say "Eh, I'd rather play for Alabama or Florida or USC or Michigan?"
Dantonio wasn't the lead recruiter for his services, Izzo was. He was committing to MSU to play basketball, with football as his second sport (even though by NCAA rules his scholarship would have counted for football). That's why his shift of focus on football is so huge and has Spartans (rightly so) worried. He was coming to MSU primarily because of Izzo.
Yes, he was coming to MSU primarily because of Izzo/basketball, but he's generally thought to have a higher upside in football...which is probably why he re-opened his recruitment and wants to concentrate on the football field. He's a 6'4" guard who's not an elite basketball talent; there probably wasn't much of a future beyond the MSU hardcourt. Conversely, he's a 6'4" wide receiver with elite skills on the gridiron; the potential there is quite significant.
Yeah, I was really trying to respond to the OSU fan who was claiming Michigan fans should be worried about Dantonio.
Honest question: What all did he do "right" that wasn't predicated on him being adept at rule-breaking and/or ignoring any signs of violations going on around him? I mean, did he do anything above and beyond what other football coaches do?
To be fair, when watching interviews with him, I always thought he was very gracious and respectful toward his peers and opponents. And I certainly took note of how respectful he was toward UM and The Game. He certainly put on a good front, hence the "Senator" moniker.
I'm sure the Wisconsin QB who was choked by the OSU linebacker agrees. Tressel sure was respectful during that incident.
He was so respectful when he had the UM team delayed and searched before The Game.
No, I'm not that worried about him. He's a good coach, but never going to take them to the next level. They simply don't have the alumni monetary support for the football team to keep up with any of the big boys. He'll sputter along with a couple 9 win seasons here and there, sometimes with a few more losses and once in a while a 10 win season. There will come a time when every Michigan fan won't even hate him anymore, they'll just pity him. A man who hates Michigan with every fiber of his being, but is ironically limited in his success because his school doesn't have the things about Michigan which are at the root of that which he so hates (tradition, a huge fan base, money, facilities, a world class education).
Agreed. Look what happen to Saban once he left East Lansing. Like it on not, Sparty is will always be 'lil bro.
I think the "typical 9 win season, sometimes a couple more or sometimes a couple less" pretty much sums up Carr. Difference is we DO have all that monetary support and reputation and they don't. A lot of us wanted him out of town those last couple of years but MSU seems like they'd be perfectly happy with that kind of record. I don't see them ever getting to a point where they realistically expect to compete for titles or BCS games, so maybe averaging 7-9 wins a year will be good enough.
I think a lot of the college world is like that but if you want to roll the dice on finding an elite coach who will take you to elite, 11+ win status on a frequent basis, you have to pay up and you have to be willing to roll the dice. Fortunately for us that mentality pretty much eliminates MSU from being a serious threat.
The RichRod years gave State a HUGE opening to level the playing field. They got half of the in-state talent. They got a couple of years of greatly increased visibility. And they got a couple of easy wins against their hated rivals. But they squandered the opportunity, and find themselves coming off of a 6 loss season, with Michigan having firmly re-established its recruiting and visibility advantages, especially within the state. Even the Spartans I know see this as signs of a return to the status quo ante.
Sure State played Michigan tough this year. But just because one team consistently plays another tough doesn't make them a strategic/long term threat. Otherwise you guys would have to consider Purdue a threat. They play you tough every year, but there is no question of who wears the daddy pants between your two programs.
With Rich Rodriguez guys holding down most of the starting jobs, the 2012 team wasn't exactly indicative of what's to come from Hoke, Mattison, and Borges.
What about 2011 though? Wouldn't that have been moreso due to RR?
I knew when he came in we'd have to give this a couple years to really turn over and become "his team" so we could see what "he could do", but those two years seem to be reversed.
There was no Alabama on the 2011 schedule, and Notre Dame was mediocre that season. The 2012 slate was a lot more difficult.
And none of that has to do with MSU. If we're talking about games vs. MSU, we lost in 2011 and won in 2012. That would seem to suggest a progression.
but wasn't that a particularly stupid question to ask? Of course we would worry more if Dantonio could recruit better. He's proven to be a good coach. How could it be worse for us that he can't land the players he wants?
And we had strong years against pathetic MSU teams. Teams that weren't even bowl eligible more often than they were. Personally, I'm happy to see that both coaches are competent because that should make for better matchups down the road. Hoke seems to be trending up, Sparty seems to be pretty much capped out. Not saying either will dominate but they should just be slugging it out for years to come. If our talent develops like it should, like they are labeled to be, then we should turn the tide pretty quick and go back to winning most of the games.
MIchigan is still a rebuilding program whereas MSU is a program that is built and already the playing field between the two programs is pretty level. As Hoke's recruiting classes mature and move into real playing time, MSU is going to find itself less and less able to compete.
MSU was fortunate to find a coach that was not completely incompetent at the same time MIchigan was turning into a tire fire and it became a generationally epic win streak for them. The reality though is that throughout the history of this rivalry, whenever Michigan has it's act together, regardless of who the head coach is in East Lansing, Michigan wins this game about 70% of the time. Spartan fans who think Dantonio can buck this trend by "coaching up" 2 and 3 star talent to compete with the 4 and 5 star talent of Michigan and Ohio are deluding themselves.
Dantonio is a Tressel-philosophy coach at a program that lacks the recruiting muscle and booster support base to achieve Tressel-like results year in and year out. The 2008-2011 seasons were an aberration, but everything is going to trend back to the norm. Dantonio will finish his career at MSU with a losing record to the Wolverines.
He has the 49th best recruiting class in the nation per rivals!!!!
his class isn't ranked higher is because the recruiting analysts know nothing of the intergallactic guys coming in.
I am pretty close with some friends of the family and if he stays in the midwest, ND is going to be the team to beat. They like what Brian Kelly has been spewing their way. But Bama and USC have been pushing pretty hard all along also. From what I have heard, the Mich connection/childhood love isn't as strong as some on this board seem to think. Really liked Sparty as he has gotten older.
I didn't want to get downvotes into oblivion but 247 has a new writeup on him this morning where he doesn't list UM. Yesterday he made a list of "OSU and Alabama", then last night he said "Michigan, Florida, Notre Dame, OSU, Georgia, Alabama, and Florida State" (iirc) and then today he said "Florida, OSU, Notre Dame, Alabama, and Georgia".
I don't think the kid has any clue what he's thinking right now, but we keep getting bounced around on his little "lists". I have no clue how seriously interested he is in MSU anymore but it sure seems like a lot of the Michigan talk is premature. I wouldn't think anyone that serious about coming here would forget to mention us several different times.
I've already seen a ton of Drake's quotes expressing his great respect for urban and coombs and that a visit will be scheduled there very soon. I have almost read nothing in that respect concerning a visit to Michigan. Which has me very concerned because lately there have been a lot more recruits from Michigan other than Damon Webb and Drake Harris expressing great interest for Ohio. For example Cass tech RB Mike Webber already has OSU as his leader. MSU may be falling on their faces right now but Ohio is sweeping into Michigan very hard now.
Harris just now got an offer from Ohio State. He's had one from Michigan for months. While I agree with the overall gist of your post, it's not surprising that Harris has talked more in the last 24-48 hours about Ohio State.
Just let the kid get on campus for his official and walk around the Big House. If he was a fan growing up it should be a pretty defining moment. I wouldn't worry too much about recruiting Michigan. Urban had the month of December off thanks to Tressel and had a bit of a jumpstart on these kids while Hoke is doing some national vists. Also Webber is 2015 there's a long time before that's over and need I mention one Damien Harris?
was this the guy TomVH was hinting at?
Anyway, I don't like these lifelong Sparties who say hes 'considering Michigan' knowing full well they aren't gonna go there, ie, to spurn them.
It's clear that Michigan can recruit elite talent. The O-line and defense have been stocked full of highly-rated players, with solid pick-ups at TE, and one potentially great RB seems poised to join the 2013 class.
That said, it may be that Hoke and company have a hard time relating to the "flashy" players on a very basic level. This is just a theory, mind you, and there isn't enough evidence at this point to confirm it.
But look at the players that we've missed out on that seemed pretty high on Michigan: Isaac, Treadwell, McQuay, virtually every elite WR recruit. This seems to point to a weakness for Hoke & Friends--can they relate to the guys that love the spotlight, the glamour, and the "flashiness" of college football?
Clearly, they've pulled-in some big time players who love attention. But when it comes to Reggie Bush type players, the staff doesn't seem to do as well reeling them in. I believe this may be just a fact we have to get comfortable with: Hoke isn't as good relating to kids that are the ultra-athletic slashers because their personalities don't seem to match. This is NOT a knock on those kids, it's just an observation.
But Ty Issac said he committed to USC because "it's tailback U" and Treadwell seemd to cool on Michigan due to a lack of attention. Selling discipline, tradition, and toughness simply might not play as well with guys whose game is more about skill and talent.
That said, I hope I'm wrong, and that we land an elite WR talent ASAP.
I can assure you that many of these elite flash players simply want one or more of the following.....
1. A payout ( looking at you, Jordan Diamond ) WE DONT PAY PLAYERS
2. Guaranteed playing time (Rod Woodson once told me he chose Purdue over Michigan because Purdue guaranteed him playing time, whereas Michigan wouldn't) WE DONT GUARANTEE PLAYING TIME
3. to get away with smoking pot ( Michigan actually enforces this rule with random testings and suspensions) WE DON'T ALLOW POT SMOKING
Those three above essentially eliminate 85% of these elite players by default.
Now, when Michigan becomes Michigan again, we will truly be landing a few of the other 15% and still a few of those 85%
I'm not saying I want jackasses in the locker room. I'm just saying that we're going to need some of those elite-talent skill players if we're going to be competing for the National Championship.
Just because a kid likes flashy football doesn't mean he's a bad person, and doesn't mean he can't grow out of it. We need a few of these boys to see the light and come to Michigan, and it appears the staff is having a hard time convincing them.
I think Braylon Edwards fits this description. As does Desmond Howard, and maybe even Charles Woodson. Carr was able to recruit some of these uber-athletes in his day, and Hoke needs to find a way to relate to them.
Drake Harris' father, Mike, is a big Michigan fan, FWIW.
Ohio State would seem to be the best choice. Need a descent receiver. He would have the best shot at winning the BIG TEN and possibly a national championship. Let's agree that Michigan has now become a factory of sadness and OSU is only getting better 12-0. How can you get better than perfect? Just do it again I guess.