well that's just, like, your opinion, man
Fitz/Hawthorne/Pass Interference and other questions
1. It was PI. JT Floyd nearly yanked the jersey off of Floyd's back. Probably saved a TD in the process.
2. Cover 3 with the FS (MRob) at the LOS. He couldn't get back to center field in time it looked like.
3. Banged up in practice this week.
"Banged up in practice?" I wonder what Mike Hart would think of that when he was playing through a high ankle sprain his entire senior season.
1)If you are talking about the one they called on Avery that put the ball on the 2, I thought that call was questionable at best. I was sitting in the 3rd row of that corner. If they called that, they absolutely should have called PI when ND intercepted that pass in the opposite endzone. I watched that one on our beautiful HD scoreboard. Awesome replay machine, but come one 2 weeks in a row where the down and distance is constantly behind or not accurate, and the play by play scroll needs a spell check. Sorry, I digress.
2) That was a blown assignment. In the presser after the game, Hoke said they tried to show a look and then get out of it. Well, that didn't work.
3) Fitz mentioned in the practice video that Fitz was banged up. The internets didn't expect him to play yesterday morning, and he didn't.
4) Hawthorne did have himself a game didn't he?
the Avery PI was questionable, but JT Floyd got away with one against their Floyd, so it's kind of a wash.
My question is what was with the placement on Avery's PI. It was a play from the 22 yard line, and I thought the PI was committed in the end zone which should have the ball placed at the 2? Or is that just an NFL rule. And why was it 15 yards instead of half the distance to the goal line? It was in fact placed on the 7 yard line.
The maximum a pass interference can advance the ball in the NCAA is 15 yards. The interference was in the endzone, so the ball would be placed on the 2, except the "maximum advancement" rule came into effect, so the ball could only be moved from the 22 to the 7.
Half the distance doesn't apply here, since the penalty is a "spot foul"--the offended team gets the ball at the spot of the foul (with the 15-yard limitation).
Did you look this up or have expereince as an official?
Well, neither. I try to be familiar with all of the rules (the TV announcers rarely know what they're talking about), and I remember back to when this particular rule was changed--as a result of a questionable pass interference call against Michigan in the Michigan-Notre Dame game in (I think) 1980 that went for 40 or 50 yards and set up Notre Dame's game-winning field goal. They changed the rule in 1981 to limit a pass interference penalty to 15 yards.
My mistake. It was a standard 15 yard penalty. It was not on the 2. Last night I could have sworn I heard the official say that because the PI was in the endzone they were going to place it at the 2 and giving myself a WTF did I hear this dude correctly when it was placed at the 7 or so. It was freaking loud in there, yo.
The ref did iniitially announce the ball was going to be placed on the 2. It came loud and clear of my TV screen. Brent Mushburger was amazingly not talking at the time.
credited Michigan's last TD to "Rory Roundtree." He made numerous other mistakes during the game, but I still prefer him to Pam Ward.
He was face guarding. If he had turned to look for the ball, he'd have been fine.
From my recollection, Avery did not turn to see the ball, yes, and he was playing physically. However, he only initiated full contact AFTER the ball had touched floyd. You are allowed to have one arm on the receiver as long as it is not on the inside arm of the receiver.
That's like saying football's a contact sport but just don't touch each other at all or that's a penalty.
Solid coverage by Avery and Floyd all night long. Michael Floyd killed us when he lined up in the slot though.
i agree completely. avery was not guilty of PI. he did not have his head turned and that's why the call was made. but the rule is that you can get away with a little contact if your head is turned. avery didn't make contact at all. for instance, if the receiver had made an over the shoulder catch, his back would have been to the ball too and then if avery hit the receiver after the ball made contact with the WR, that wouldn't be pass interference.
Floyd's was clearly PI, however, I'd like to see if the other Floyd, Michael Floyd pushed off as JT was clearly exclaiming.
Avery's would've been PI, but he missed Floyd (and the ball)...he just didn't turn around after getting beat and the ref through the flag. But replay after replay you could see it. You even saw Hoke damn near in the endzone after watching the replay arguing the call. It was a horrible one. Avery really didn't even touch him until the ball was well by Floyd and they were falling to the ground.
Michael Floyd was definitely pushing off quite a bit, most noticeably on the 2-and-25 completion for 24.9 yards. On that play the spot looked pretty bad to me too. It looke like he was about a yard short, not the 6 inches where they spotted it (and they barely converted the 3-and-6-inches.
.....more or less resolves this thread.
I need more information!
What happened to Mike Jones and Brandon Herron didnt see either one of them out there!
Herron was banged up, I believe.
Mike Jones has not been playing well.
Hopkins looked like crap, Shaw was non-existent. Smith played a solid game, but our RB's weren't there at all tonight.
I felt the same way. I was also somewhat mad because the coaching staff has been preaching on the 1 back philosophy which allows the guy (and the line) to establish a rythm. I think this is the way to go but they kept rotating backs in and out on every play. Whyyyyyyyy?
..you don't want to establish. Like hitting the line slow or running with eyes down and missing the hole.
Got literally no push on running plays. Worrisome. I don't know how much was the fault of the RBs. Hopkins worries me, because that fumble was inexcusable.
The Avery PI call in the endzone was not PI. The Floyd call on the last drive was clearly PI.
Hawthorne had a monster second half. Our defense is not much better talent wise compared to last year, but they are stronger in fundamental tackling, and the scheme is better.
Are the jump balls by design. Did our coaches see something in the ND secondary that made them think we could be successful with simply throwing it up? Denard had to have thrown 6-7.
even Herbstriet and Musberger commented that Denard's last INT was the only time all night that ND's backs found the ball early enough to make a play on it. The rest of the night it was practically a free catch.
I wouldn't necessarily call them 'jump balls'. Notre Dame was playing man to man almost the entire night. The defenders had their back to the ball and couldn't see when the ball was in the air. All the receivers had to do was locate the ball.
Per wolverine nation, brine dunn's cousin is on board!
That would be Dymonte Thomas.
Thanks, you've really managed to capture the spirit of my posting.
So if the spirit of the post was snarky laziness, you succeeded.
Yeah, I'm sure the feeling he was trying to convey through his post was snarky laziness. It's funny how even after the greatest game many of us have ever seen, people still act like douchebags on this board.
Where was Herron? I know Brian removed the veil on his WM performance and showed us he really played like poo. Maybe the coaches saw the same thing? Does anyone know?
and Hawthorne are just more game ready. Herron has the athleticism, but isn't making the reads fast enough.
while we're talking about the MIA -- How about Carvin Johnson? From what I saw Marvin Robinson went the whole way. And whats up with Troy right hand -- thought he hurt his left ankle.
I noticed CJ for one play in the first quarter. There could have been more, I really wasn't seeking him out. However, on that play, he lined up incorrectly. Marvin Robinson played the rest of the game. Marvin may have started for all I know. I was more focused on the DL and LB play at the start of the game.
Vincent Smith should be our running back. Everyone needs to stop worrying about home run ability and give credit to the guy who busts his balls getting positive yards on every play. He also catches the ball and picks up blitzes every time.
Absolutely...and hopefully Mr. Smith will show T Rawles and J Hayes the correct way to hold on to a football and run.
Even Herbie thought the Avery pass interference was a poor call.
From my view the roughing the passer call on the ensuing drivewas a good make up call.
I thought the hit on Denard was pretty late and forceful enough to earn that call.
I'm definitely in the minority on this but I thought the Avery call was correct. There wasn't really contact but he didn't know where the ball was and was trying to block the receiver's facemask--Unless they've changed that rule, I assumed that's why it was called.
I see why they did call it. I probably wouldn't have. My only beef was if that was PI, then there was PI on the pick Denard threw in the endzone too.
Face-guarding is purely an NFL rule. You can faceguard all you want in college as long as you don't slap the receiver in the face.
+1 Thanks for the clarification, I stand corrected; we were definitely screwed over by the call then. Good thing it didn't matter!
Avery pi could have easily been a good no call so I thought we got jobbed on that one. Branding Hawthorne should definitely start now as he showed he is a player. RB situation is murky at best.
it sounded like a lineman got called, how does that even happen?
A D-lineman gets called for holding if he's preventing a guard from pulling. In this case, however, Will Campbell was being chop-blocked by two O-lineman. So I don't see how it was defensive holding.
The defensive holding call went against Will Heininger.
You're right about it being BS, though.
I watched the defensive holding replay a few times on FanVision. WH got chop blocked, but then grabbed the pants of another DL trying to step over him while he was lying on his back. It was kind of bullshit, but probably not a total phantom call. The face-guarding PI, on the other hand, is not a college rule AFAIK.
There were about 8 calls and penalties that should not have happened by any means whatsoever. We got called on 3 pass intereference plays that should not have been pass interference and I think the TV mics would have muted it because the ENTIRE stadium was chanting bullshit. That, and the "defensive holding" call on Will Campbell as he was being chop-blocked. That, and the mystery holding call when we started on our goal line late in the 4th and completed a 20 yard pass to roundtree. That, and Floyd's 35 yard catch on a 3rd and 25 where he did not actually have possession until he put both feet out of bounds. That, and Denard's 2nd pick should've had pass interference called on it for the same as what Floyd was doing. Also, don't forget the numerous holds that the refs also neglected to call on our D-line.
See above for the defensive holding, which BWC was doing but which still seems like a strange call.
The holding call on the Roundtree pass was also legit--a rusher way out of the play tried a spin move, and it became super-obvious as he did it that our guy had him by the shirt as his shirt stretched.
Otherwise I either agree or don't have enough information, but yes, that was terrible, terrible officiating, and we should never let Big East refs in our stadium to call a UM-ND game again.
The refs for last nights game need to learn the rule book. That was one of the worst called games I've seen in a while. No wonder the Big East is on it's death bed like the Big XII.
I hated seeing Floyd smile all Damn night knowing he could do whatever he wanted but I'm pretty sure he's not smiling now.
Even in real-time it was quite obvious thath he pulled down on Gallon's left shoulder, causing Jeremy to lose his balance and not be able to make a play on the ball.
Fucking pathetic officiating by obviously incompetent Big East refs, all nite long.
either. What happened to the good old baseball caps? They looked like a bunch of Domers with those hats.