will be michigan's highest pick in a while
Fitz Pleads Guilty of Operating While Visibly Impaired
August 28th, 2012 at 2:45 PM | 
Perhaps you can direct to
Perhaps you can direct to
August 28th, 2012 at 2:57 PM |
Do you feel caught between
Do you feel caught between
Do you feel caught between giving your team the best chance to win vs. making sure the players pay the consequences for breaking the law?
“Well, I think whenever you’re in this position. You’ve got to make decisions that are best for the program. And that doesn’t mean for one specific team, it means for the program. It means for the identity and the character of the program that you represent. Are they easy decisions? No. Are they decisions you want to make because you love the kids? No. But you have to make them.”
It seems you’re in a very uncomfortable spot.
“I’m comfortable with what I want to do. Very comfortable with that. Talking to all you guys about it? No. That’s not comfortable because it’s talking about two kids who are sons to us and made bad decisions.”
Do you know what you’re going to do?
“Oh I probably have an idea.”
August 28th, 2012 at 3:06 PM |
He never says
He never says
He never says that Fitz is going to sit anywhere in his answers. He said he has tough decisions, and that he makes them for the program. You are just inferring that means that he won't play, but Hoke doesn't necessarily mean that is what the punishment is. No one knows what Fitz has been doing for the past 1 month + for punishment. If he gets in trouble for this in February, or in May, does he still have to miss game time? I think punishment can be arbitrary, and if Hoke and the staff/AD feel comfortable with the punishmet that Fitz has received, than who am I to judge.
Like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through
August 28th, 2012 at 3:08 PM |
2+2=...5?
2+2=...5?
2+2=...5?
August 28th, 2012 at 3:37 PM |
i read his comments the same way
i read his comments the same way
he's sitting and we will all be proud of our coach. but i also agree with coach not to let alabama have any information they don't get as a matter of course
I will fucking cunt punt the next person I hear about doing something like that, and I don't give a fuck if you SOR me, I WILL FUCKING ASSAULT YOU.
August 28th, 2012 at 4:48 PM |
Technically...
Technically...
it equals 3. But on Tuesdays after 2 it equal 5...at least until 6, where it changes to 7.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
August 28th, 2012 at 2:42 PM |
This doesn't matter. It's
This doesn't matter. It's
This doesn't matter. It's good for Fitz's record, but it doesn't change the fact he got behind the wheel intoxicated. He needs to sit.
August 28th, 2012 at 2:44 PM |
I agree 100%. You hold
I agree 100%. You hold
I agree 100%. You hold yourself to a different standard as a UM football player. Hoke can't set a lenient precedent like this in one of his first disciplinary decisions of his tenure.
"You know what feeling you get when you win. You know what feeling you get when you lose. You learn early on, you either get used to the feeling of losing or you do something to win." -Charles Woodson
August 28th, 2012 at 2:53 PM |
Disagree
Disagree
Higher standard than who? I think most coaches play him in this scenario. Also this is not one of Hoke's first disciplinary decisions here..Kellen Jones, Stonum, Furman (even though he was not guilty).
All that said Is still think Hoke sits him against Bama
How can you kill that which has no life
August 28th, 2012 at 4:51 PM |
He won't play in the first half...
He won't play in the first half...
That's for sure, it would be a shitstorm if he did. Even if we won, the focus would be on Fitz playing and it would be a distraction and bad PR move. Let alone the precendent.
Maybe he doesn't play the first half of any non-conference game? Maybe he doesn't start all season, but plays in every game? Maybe it's a 1 game suspension? Maybe it's 2.
Thing is, only certain people know so we should stop guessing. There are a million choices.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
August 30th, 2012 at 10:54 AM |
Far from overrated
Far from overrated
That's for sure, it would be a shitstorm if he did. Even if we won, the focus would be on Fitz playing and it would be a distraction and bad PR move. Let alone the precendent.
Maybe he doesn't play the first half of any non-conference game? Maybe he doesn't start all season, but plays in every game? Maybe it's a 1 game suspension? Maybe it's 2.
Thing is, only certain people know so we should stop guessing. There are a million choices.
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
August 28th, 2012 at 3:38 PM |
Bad Call
Bad Call
It is not the coach's job to determine the legal defintion of what happened. That is the legal system's job, and the fact that Fitz was not convicted of DWI is important. I'm not saying that he shouldn't be suspended or that he should be. I'm just saying that Hoke is not the one to say, "This is what he did." In a legal matter, it is the legal system that says, "This is what he did."
My perspective is that the downgrading of the action is very significant. I think Fitz doesn't start but plays against Bama. And I think it would be a good call, since he did not commit DWI.
"Football is happening at Michigan... we have that savoir faire." Dhani Jones
August 28th, 2012 at 7:02 PM |
I dont think the ruling is
I dont think the ruling is
I dont think the ruling is significant because im 100% sure hoke sat down with fitz and they talked about exactly what happened. Its not like we need a legal system to tell us what is right and wrong.
I dont know whats going to happen, but i doubt he will play. that being said, ide be ok with him playing because i trust Hoke.
August 28th, 2012 at 2:42 PM |
Fitz also
Fitz also
pleads guilty to being a total dumbass.
August 28th, 2012 at 2:46 PM |
There's a big difference
There's a big difference
There's a big difference between acting like a total dumbass in an isolated incident and being a total dumbass.
"Is There Anybody Out There?" Pink Floyd, The Wall.
August 28th, 2012 at 2:53 PM |
God forbid anyone on this board...
God forbid anyone on this board...
ever gets a DUI! I'm sure it's happened many times. Glass houses my friends. If Fitz plays, who of you will be pissed off after Michigan wins?! No one. An above poster was correct, we are not the SEC. But we are playing the SEC. Something to keep in mind. I don't see a problem with Fitz playing. He's paid a price than none of us know anything about so all the judge Judy's out there should shut up. If he sits, he sits. If he plays you'll get over it.
"Bend over and I'll show you." Perfect answer to nearly any question.
August 28th, 2012 at 3:10 PM |
This is a fascinating concept
This is a fascinating concept
This is a fascinating concept that I had never thought of... sure Hoke should sit him, BUT, we're playing the SEC, and the SEC wouldn't sit him, so let's be consistent with our current competition. Upvote!
August 28th, 2012 at 3:22 PM |
Seriously? Maybe we should
Seriously? Maybe we should
Seriously? Maybe we should oversign for a few years, too! Morals be damned, if we're playing against someone who does bad things we should do them too! We criticize the SEC so much around here because Michigan is generally held to a higher standard, that's the way it should be.
COYS and lets go Detroit FC!
August 28th, 2012 at 3:28 PM |
Let's see if he gets this one
Let's see if he gets this one
Why stop there? Let's get into the NFL free agent market and get ourselves Aaron Rodgers and Calvin for next year! It's not like the SEC doesn't pay their players already!
"I'm the guy who does his job. You must be the other guy."
August 28th, 2012 at 3:29 PM |
I should have included my
I should have included my
I should have included my "/s"...
August 28th, 2012 at 3:13 PM |
Judge Judy here
Judge Judy here
I guess pissed off is the wrong word for it, but if we win and Fitz plays, I'll feel a little dirty. I'm sure he's done a lot over the summer but for us to keep our clean image and reputation up he should sit.
"I'm the guy who does his job. You must be the other guy."
August 28th, 2012 at 3:31 PM |
Someone else made a good point
Someone else made a good point
What if this had happened back in January? Would you still sit him or would he have served his penalty during those months? And how long does it take to work off that mistake? Will he be benched because this was a recent mistake? Sitting a game is not the only penalty, that's my point.
Also, I appreciate the snark and sarcasm. For the record, I do have an advanced degree from U of M... I have a LOT of pride in that accomplishment and I do feel that we as UM students and grads have a higher standard to uphold. I just don't necessarily agree with you all about sitting Fitz. Whatever Coach Hoke decides is the right choice in my opinion.
As for MilkSteak, a shower will make you clean again after the victory in Dallas. :0)
"Bend over and I'll show you." Perfect answer to nearly any question.
August 28th, 2012 at 3:44 PM |
That definitely changes
That definitely changes
That definitely changes things for me for some odd reason. If he had gotten a DUI back then I probably wouldn't have a problem with Hoke playing him. I think it happening so close to the game has brought a lot of negative attention to the program so the only way to mitigate this is to suspend him for a few games.
I know it's not the only penalty, but it is the only visible penalty, and visibility is important in a time when the team is in the headlines for the wrong reasons.
I wasn't trying to be snarky/sarcastic, I see your side of the issue but I have to respectfully disagree. After that victory I will indeed be taking a champagne shower.
"I'm the guy who does his job. You must be the other guy."
August 28th, 2012 at 3:37 PM |
Dude the football program in
Dude the football program in
Dude the football program in on probation right now....it may be one of the stupidest reasons in the history of the world but sorry we dont have a "clean" image at this point.
Whether Fitz plays or not it wont bother me one way or another. Hoke will do the right thing in his mind and as long as he can go to sleep at night that is all that matters.
August 28th, 2012 at 3:40 PM |
Actually, I agree with you
Actually, I agree with you
I will get behind Hoke's decision either way on this one. But it bothers me how everyone is so quick to be judge, jury, and executioner. I really don't think it will be a huge difference if Fitz is not playing. I think Rawls will stand in quite well.
"Bend over and I'll show you." Perfect answer to nearly any question.
August 28th, 2012 at 3:46 PM |
Yeah I guess we are on
Yeah I guess we are on
Yeah I guess we are on probation, but most people (myself included) totally forget about this until reminded. Nobody in the country views us as a "dirty" program.
And yes, whatever Hoke decides is what he's going to decide. Our opinions don't matter but it's fun to debate.
"I'm the guy who does his job. You must be the other guy."
August 28th, 2012 at 3:25 PM |
Put me down on the pissed off
Put me down on the pissed off
Put me down on the pissed off column. This is just a game. As an alum, I care about the reputation of the university FAR MORE than any single game, even a big-time game like this one.
August 28th, 2012 at 3:27 PM |
Pretty sure a member on this
Pretty sure a member on this
Pretty sure a member on this board posted something a few months ago asking for advice because he had received a DUI
August 28th, 2012 at 3:36 PM |
He's been suspended from the
He's been suspended from the
He's been suspended from the Alabama Liveblog.
This has nothing to do with Michigan football.
August 28th, 2012 at 4:55 PM |
I pray to God you're a safe driver...
I pray to God you're a safe driver...
I also pray for your family and that you don't have to feel the pain of losing a loved one to someone driving under the influence.
It doesn't make it right just because plenty of people do it and don't get into accidents or harm others. It also doesn't make it right because others have done it.
It's not the same as driving without a seatbelt, in that case, you're most likely going to hurt yourself.
But driving under the influence can KILL someone, and most likely its not the driver.
This is that Penn State mindset that we HAVE to get rid of.
Fact: If Fitz killed someone, the tone on this whole thread would be completely different. Why should it come to that? Why does it have to come to a man molesting children before someone at Penn St. spoke up about the toxic culture at that university (and that person had traction)?
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
August 28th, 2012 at 7:35 PM |
"...driving under the
"...driving under the
"...driving under the influence can KILL someone..." So can driving NOT under the influence. I am not trying to be insensitive about the issue, but DUI is a victimless crime. Is it dangerous? Yes. But what if Fitz were arrested for going 110mph down I-95? Speeding is the cause of thousands of deaths a year, should kid stopped for speeding be suspended too?
I don't really like the, "holier than thou" tone that many people -- especially alums -- are expressing in here. Again, it's a victimless crime. Fitz didn't hurt anyone. He could have, but he could have just as easily have hurt someone while he was 100% stonecold sober.
Let Hoke do what he thinks is the best for Fitz and the Michigan football program. If he decides that is sitting him, so be it. If he decides that is playing him, so be it. This, "I'll be pissed if he plays" meme is a joke.
Sing to the colors that float in the light;
Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!
August 28th, 2012 at 7:50 PM |
Just fucking stop. This is
Just fucking stop. This is
Just fucking stop. This is one of the dumbest things I have read on this board, and that is saying something.
August 28th, 2012 at 8:38 PM |
If my aunt had balls she'd have been my uncle
If my aunt had balls she'd have been my uncle
The drunk driving laws in this nation have diverged from sensible reality to the point that we discuss the need to punish people for what did not happen. Fitz drove while "visibly impaired". He harmed no one. No property damage. Impairment is a scale it is not black and white. He'll pay a high price for this mistake but he did NOT kill nor injure anyone. As far as we know, even though "visibly impaired" he may have still been operating his car safely. Lets stop talking about what might have happened under different circumstances and look at the actual.
The Penn State situation is utterly different. Fitz's situation has played out in the full eye of the media. Nothing has been hidden (other than the details of the internal punishment that Hoke has imposed). There is no "toxic culture" at Michigan looking the other way. You may disagree with how Hoke ultimately handles this, but it's his job to handle it and we'll all know his decision. Comparing this to Penn State is over reach and minimizes what happened there.
I have no problem if Hoke sits Fitz, I have no problem if Hoke plays Fitz. Perhaps if I had all the information that Hoke has I might make a different decision, but I am not the head coach and it is not my decision. Hoke will decide. Michigan will go on and the quality of his decision will be decided over the next few months and years.
August 30th, 2012 at 10:55 AM |
Only Flamers Use Flamebait
Only Flamers Use Flamebait
I also pray for your family and that you don't have to feel the pain of losing a loved one to someone driving under the influence.
It doesn't make it right just because plenty of people do it and don't get into accidents or harm others. It also doesn't make it right because others have done it.
It's not the same as driving without a seatbelt, in that case, you're most likely going to hurt yourself.
But driving under the influence can KILL someone, and most likely its not the driver.
This is that Penn State mindset that we HAVE to get rid of.
Fact: If Fitz killed someone, the tone on this whole thread would be completely different. Why should it come to that? Why does it have to come to a man molesting children before someone at Penn St. spoke up about the toxic culture at that university (and that person had traction)?
“True loyalty is that quality of service that grows under adversity and expands in defeat. Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise — the other, loyalty.”
August 28th, 2012 at 2:57 PM |
Paraphrasing the Fundamental
Paraphrasing the Fundamental
Paraphrasing the Fundamental Attribution Error FTW!!!!!
"I have long thought that anyone who does not regularly - or ever - gaze up and see the wonder and glory of a dark night sky filled with countless stars loses a sense of their fundamental connectedness to the universe."
August 28th, 2012 at 2:50 PM |
whats
whats
The sentence for that? 12 credit hours at Michigan State
Follow me on Twitter @gfraley05
August 28th, 2012 at 2:44 PM |
I would continue to be
I would continue to be
I would continue to be unahppy if Fitz played against Alabama. OWI means that you were operating the motor vehicle while impaired by a substance (SOS Link). Given the potential first offense for a OWI it's still a pretty serious charge. This is definitely not reckless or any type of "intoxicated but under .08" charge. All this shows is that Fitz avoided the .17+ BAC charges which are more severe. Sit Fitz for 'Bama and bring him back after that.
August 28th, 2012 at 2:44 PM |
With new info...
With new info...
With the new info you guys have posted, sounds like OWI can include jail-time. I am guessing Fitz doesnt play vs. Alabama, which is fine by me.
Michigan is expected to lose to Alabama, so as far as I am concerned, Michigan is playing with house-money. Sit Fitz and sit Clark. Discipline matters.
- Greymarch
I write about Michigan sports at my website.
http://www.greymarch.com
August 28th, 2012 at 2:45 PM |
I'm pretty sure there's not a
I'm pretty sure there's not a
I'm pretty sure there's not a single Michigan fan that would not want him to play this Saturday despite any brush with the law. Be honest now!
August 28th, 2012 at 2:50 PM |
I don't
I don't
All things being equal, if we're just looking from a football perspective, of course I would rather have Fitz in the line-up. But Fitz would still be our best running back even if he was an axe murderer or some sort of Bond villain, and in that case I don't think we would want him in the lineup.
I want to see him to play, but not as much as I want to see Hoke do the right thing.
August 28th, 2012 at 6:07 PM |
I respectfully disagree.
I respectfully disagree.
I'm sorry, but I disagree. I would totally want Fitz to play if he were an axe murderer or a Bond villain. Think about the implications. You're a middle linebacker, and the guy running toward you is a known axe murderer. Are you gonna tackle him? Really? He would be the best running back ever. What if he was Odd Job? He could take off his helmet, whip it at a player, and cut them in half. It would be totally bad-ass if Fitz were a Bond villain.
I mention this because I think it's a lot more fun and informative than listening to folks debate this topic. Nearly 100% or 100% of us think that drinking and driving is bad. Nearly 0% or 0% of us know what punishment Hoke has given out. And 0% of us know what Hoke will do on Saturday. And nearly 100% of us think that Hoke will do what he thinks is best for Fitz, in the long run.
More importantly, nearly 100% of us can agree that it would be intimidating as all get-out if Fitz was a known axe murderer. And 100% can agree that it would be awesome if Fitz were a Bond villain - especially if he were Odd Job.
Q.E.D.
- "Of course I care about that stuff. To the point of irrationality. It will always be Michigan first, cancer second." Jim Mandich (RIP)
August 28th, 2012 at 2:56 PM |
Don't speak for me bub. This
Don't speak for me bub. This
Don't speak for me bub. This was not a mere "brush" with the law. Will Campbell had a "brush" with the law. This was drunk driving, whether you use some horse manure legalese to describe it or not. I don't want to sacrifice the Michigan name for a player's selfish and dangerous actions. We are playing the SEC, we are not the SEC.
~Herm
Stop the uniform changes! Contact Dave Brandon 734-764-9416.
August 28th, 2012 at 3:25 PM |
Bub? Horse manure?
Bub? Horse manure?
You are my father.
"I'm the guy who does his job. You must be the other guy."
August 28th, 2012 at 4:18 PM |
It's not often Herm
It's not often Herm
But we agree 100%. I must be getting old.
Time is working funny again. Greg Mattison has a phonebooth time machine he sent the secondary back to Charles Woodson's childhood in; they have emerged with ZZ Top beards, children, and skills.-BC
August 28th, 2012 at 3:21 PM |
Umm, I'm one who doesn't want him to play
Umm, I'm one who doesn't want him to play
Umm, I'm one who doesn't want Fitz to play against Alabama. I don't think what he did was the end of the world, but it was stupid and he got caught. Hoke has to punish both Fitz and Clark, to set precedent for the rest of the team, and to put out a marker for what Michigan does (in relationship to MSU & Ohio, in particular.) This is Michigan, fergodsakes.
I also think the team is bigger than any one individual. This is exactly the kind of thing that eventually sunk Ohio. Prior and others thought they were above the law, and indispensable to Tressel and Ohio. This sense of entitlement and lack of consequences for actions causes all kinds of problems, and isn't real life for most of us.
Now, I wish that Fitz had never had a BAC of .12 while driving, and thus that he was playing this Saturday. But wishing that won't change the reality.
“If wishes were fishes we'd all be throwing nets. If wishes were horses we'd all ride.”
"It does not matter how many times you get knocked down, but how many times you get up." Vince Lombardi
August 29th, 2012 at 1:01 AM |
Brian Kelly seems to be suspending players left and right.
Brian Kelly seems to be suspending players left and right.
Cierre Woods, Utopu, Rees? A little part of me would be a little embarrassed if we conceded moral high ground to ND.
Now, I would give my third nut to see Fitz on the field Saturday, but I don't think we will nor do I think we should.
August 28th, 2012 at 2:45 PM |
I will be very disappointed
I will be very disappointed
I will be very disappointed in Brady Hoke if Fitz plays. This is Michigan and you are held to a higher standard. I don't care about the semantics of what he was charged with/what he plead to. You can make him run the Big House stairs a thousand times but it won't match the agony of standing there in street clothes watching his team play in what would have been the biggest game of his life. And when we likely lose, he will have to live with that for the rest of his career. DUIs are not something to mess around with, and he needs to pay the price and feel it for a long time.
August 28th, 2012 at 2:56 PM |
I agree that he should be
I agree that he should be
I agree that he should be punished..but you make it sound like he killed a child, and that he should be embarassed in front of 100,000 people. At least let him wear his jersey, if he did something worth wearing street clothes at a game, he would have been kicked off the team by now. I hope he has learned his lesson and regained Hoke's trust over the summer. We are pretty fucked if he doesn't play, and that 14 point spread might look about right in the end.
"Those Who Stay Will Be Champions"
-Bo Schembechler
"History is written by the Victors"
-Winston Churchill
August 28th, 2012 at 4:29 PM |
Yeah all I meant was that he
Yeah all I meant was that he
Yeah all I meant was that he should be wearing not football pads, don't have a problem with him wearing a jersey.
I agree with what another poster said, if this was UMass we wouldn't be having this conversation. The opponent doesn't change anything, or shouldn't.
August 28th, 2012 at 9:07 PM |
How do you know we will
How do you know we will
be screwed if doesn't play? We have heard very good things about Rawls, I wouldn't automatically assume that he won't be able to provide anything if he plays in Fitz's place. Given how strong Alabama's run defense is I doubt which ever RB plays is going to have a huge game anyways, winning the game will most likely come down to making some plays in the passing game and the D be able to control the Alabama running game. If they do those things I think they will at least give themselves a chance to win, with or without Fitz.
Put me down in the camp that believes Fitz shouldn't play, regardless of the charge being pleaded down to an OWI. At the end of the day he was still driving drunk, a tone needs to be set that no player on the team is above the law, regardless of who the opponent is. The only reason this is even being debated so heavily is because of the opponent.
Perhaps you can direct to these comments? He seemed entirely ambigious from what I read.