For the first time, actually worried RR would leave UM post-success
In all the hand-wringing regarding what RR needs to do to stay employed, I never thought I'd actually concern myself with whether he would stick around if given the opportunity. I'm not one for overreactions or irrational outbursts, either...I just think at some point something's gotta give.
It's no secret that RR has pretty much faced a never-ending nightmare from the moment he announced his intention to change jobs. I won't go into all the gory details but let's just itemize: lawsuits, anger/death threats from WV, endless cultural attacks coming from our side, losing a bunch of excellent players upon his arrival, Justin Boren's largeness, severe lack of depth/talent in certain areas of the team he was handed, 3 wins, 5 wins, a terrible media situation, more lawsuits that have nothing to do with his job, sanctions, Feagin, Witty and now Dorsey.
Yes, he can be partially blamed for some of these things. No, I don't cry myself to sleep over these things because he is a highly-compensated individual, an adult, and can handle adversity. I do recognize that he is human, however, and these things have an effect on people. I think we all forget that sometimes. If he wins, he is going to have some suitors. They will be promising him everything under the sun--up to and including more money, administrative departments that are not idiots that will make him look bad, media that will lavish him with praise, admissions that will not try to work against him, and a better shot at success in general.
It's not Michigan, but it will look pretty damn tempting. I think we have started to tread on a sacred area where coaches are often given the most leeway to make decisions (within the rules) to impact their program--recruiting. I could see how this whole Dorsey thing would hurt the coaches and staff as bad or worse than anything they have experienced so far. They spend an enormous amount of time researching players and selling them on their school and program vision. Without the proper recruits, the vision goes nowhere. I don't want to overstate the point, but allowing for unclear and shifting criteria for admissions purposes could be a fatal sort of flaw that helps shake RR's confidence in the school to back him in his decisions going forward. Hell, he can't even rely on the compliance department to properly push paper. The initial reports are that he is "furious" over this. I'm not sure I've ever heard him described as such outside of the context of an ongoing game.
I'm not Chicken Little-ing over here. I understand Michigan will go on with or without RR. But is this the kind of precedent we want to set? How will we attract, retain and motivate future coaches if this is the sort of environment they are walking into? Will we throw a crap-ton of money at them then boot them after a few years for failing to meet our inflated and unjustifiable expectations? I think I've heard this one before. I can see it on the horizon. I hope it doesn't come to fruition.
You are Chicken Little-ing. We will be alright.
Thanks a lot, Captain Improbable.
If you are going to go all Chicken Little, I'd first worry about Michigan having success. If he builds something to the level that other big name programs want to hire him then maintaining that success should not be as difficult as repairing a 3-9 team.
Basically, let's get those wins first and then we'll worry about the rest.
Besides, no matter how mad RR is right now, I think he'll like Michigan a lot more when/if he starts winning.
a key reason RR left WVU was because the AD and U President were causing him all manner of problems...little things like refusing to give free tickets to recruits to attend games. He had a list of a couple dozen things that the U had agreed to an failed to comply with (a website for recruiting, etc)
Of course Michigan is a higher profile job, and would have been tempting either way...but the point is that coaches don't need the U undercutting their programs. They're already under enough pressure without being screwed in tiny pointless ways.
I don't think this is a crisis right now, but Brandon better start working to make sure RR is happy with the Athletic Department and U Administration because eventually this kind of thing matters.
It's like when your office cuts splenda from the break room as a cost saving measure. The hundred bucks a year they save is nothing, but the employees feel disrespected and not valued. And for what? Because of some ridiculous bureaucratic decision completely disconnected from reality.
I dont' care for splenda...but I get your point.
How about when they cut coffee all together and bring in vending machines?
And if RR is furious, he should focus that fury on actually winning some games, otherwise he'll be lucky to get a job at whatever JUCO DD applied to.
And he has every right to be.
Focusing that to games would be nice yes, but if he can't and he loses his job he'll still do much better than a JUCO program. The guy was successful at several places, his worst case scenario is losing his head coaching job at Michigan and becoming an O-Coordinator at a BCS school.
IMHO, I think the task that David Brandon has ahead of him to straighten out the department and make sure that all this doesn't push RR into the arms of another institution in a couple of years (presuming on-field success) is as important as dealing with the NCAA shit.
I'll confess that I've had the foreboding feeling for quite a while that RR will have his team in a NC championship game before too long, only it won't be a Michigan team.
If I was Rich Rodriguez- I would never, ever, EVER want to even THINK of the term "Rebuild" again. EVER.
Michigan or bust.
I'm sure he would expect a different result if he were handed a team with depth and a supportive/competent administration and media.
what I was getting at. We are creating a hostile environment for the current and/or future coaches at the moment. This needs to be addressed.
We are sliding into Notre Dame territory. That skid has to stop. It takes strong leadership.
Agree that I'd much rather win and see how it plays out. I think many things will improve just by winning.
However, not all things will improve on their own. I disagree that we should sit back and wait. Brandon and others need to get their asses in gear and straighten up the administration, first and foremost. If the past year has tuaght us anything, it's that we have some serious internal issues and inaction has only exacerbated them.
I'd much rather be in that situation than bobbing in the sea of confusion we're all in now...
I was thinking of this as well. It's clear that the nagging problems within the administration at WVU represented a significant strike in RR's mind. The support the program needed wasn't there. Now this at M.
Let's say he wins 8 and 10 games in the next two years with a BCS bowl and top 10 finish in 2011 (a man can dream). Now the offers will come in for him and -- just when we all want him to stay -- he might remember these slights, especially if they've continued.
I don't know how much control Brandon has over redoubts of the administration that lie outside of the Athletic Department. He might have to go to MSC over those issues, and will she be willing to take on the academic bureaucrats? Time will tell.
failing to meet our inflated and unjustifiable expectations?.500 is not "inflated", is not "unjustifiable". Not asking for a national championship with frosh. QB's, but hey can we at least go 6-6?
Your worry is based on a huge assumption regarding a coach who has in two seasons only won three big ten games...
You missed it.
It's bad enough that we are potentially creating a double-edged sword for Rodriguez: he loses and we boot him or he does well enough to move elsewhere to be treated better. It's even worse that we may be creating a toxic atmosphere for future coaches in the event RR flames out and is fired. I don't want another decade of this shit because we can't perform the most basic of tasks (administration) and fail to create a welcoming environment for coaches.
Is invalid.
Any coach can leave any time they want for any reason. If he leaves to be treated better then aren't all parties better off by default? If RR goes 10-2 this year then bolts we lost a career .500 coach. Somebody can write pages about if the cupboard was left bare or not.
If he goes undefeated the next three years and bolts then we have won three national championships and we lose a career .746 coach. Carr was .753.
My only real worry is RR losing to both Illinois and Purdue for the third year in a row.
Not if when you leave you owe $3M ($2.5M next year, $2M the next), and don't have another high end offer to buy you out.
He has a 6 year contract. This is a succeed and get bought out or suck and get fired kind of position. (Note: if we fire him we owe the same buyout to him.)
Moving on down the line ...
"Any coach can leave any time they want for any reason."
OK? So therefore we shouldn't worry about making the job desirable?
"If he leaves to be treated better then aren't all parties better off by default?"
Holy hell. No. You saw what happened when a good coach (Carr) left, right? Imagine one that left angry, with MOAR MEDIA OUTRAGE and leaving behind "system players" that may not be suited for the next coach. Sounds fun.
"If RR goes 10-2 this year then bolts we lost a career .500 coach."
This wins the award for dumbest part of your post. First, having a 10-2 coach leave is bad because he has proven himself. Second, it's bad for the reasons I listed above. Third, the overall performance argument is hilariously stupid. If he goes 13-0 and wins a NC will you say "throw out the bum! He's a .568 coach!"
"If he goes undefeated the next three years and bolts then we have won three national championships and we lose a career .746 coach. Carr was .753."
I'm speechless.
This is borderline troll logic.
...I've always had the sense that he graduated to the "Big Time" and has been a little in over his head -- especially with all the adversity and acrimony.
This is an extremely critical season. He knows it. Everyone knows it. I sure as hell hope his "system" works this year and produces eight wins. I think it can if we can stay relatively injury-free.
Once RR starts winning most of his games, all these minor problems will fade away! RR did not take over a Michigan program in good shape. I hope the AD gives him the time to rebuild, and that the fans are patient. The talent and depth on this team is improving but it may take a few more years to gel.
I don't think RR is a quitter and will overcome all these challenges. I worry more about the AD canning RR at the end of this season because he only won 5 or 6 games, instead of this magic 8 or more wins I keep hearing. Our talent is young and the defense may take a while to rebuild. I look at this team and the 2010 schedule and can only find 5 to 6 wins. Though a few breaks in some of the close match ups could get us to 8 or 9?
I don't think so. David Brandon has had RR's back. Sure, RR faces a tough crowd, including a newspaper that has fucking crucified him, but he seems to have a good boss to work for.
If we win big Rodriguez will get royal treatment. I don't think this is an issue.
Eh, not from the Freep. They'll just go back to the original line by people (not Rosenberg, oddly) that Michigan sold out its tradition to get wins. The Freep burned their bridges a while ago.
So no other coach in the country has had to deal with players getting in legal trouble or recruits not qualifying?
out a single data point from a long list of things in order to make an argument I didn't even consider or come close to making is beyond me.
This is a very sad day. RR has a right to be mad as hell. I have personally called David Brandon's office to ask what the deal is. No call back. We lost a superstar player who could have been a lock down corner and now he is gone. It seems the AD office and admissions are committed to seeing RR fail. We cannot compete for National Championships if the politics of Michigan are going to infringe on the ability to get the best athletes. This one did do the work to try to qualify and has. Dorsey could have been a little bit better academically in his earlier high school years, but he did qualify. I feel awful for this kid.
... that some folks in positions of authority place more stock in protecting the M brand image from a bygone era than in quickly developing a championship caliber football program.
Of course, they fail to see that a football program that seriously competes for Big 10 championships is a catalyst for positive brand-building and a whole lot more.
We won a NC in '97 and were one cheap personal foul call away from playing for the NC in '06, both times under Lloyd Carr. RR might turn out to be a very successful coach yet at Michigan, but Michigan was NC caliber way before (and will be way after) the RR era.
This is a bunch of bullshit. Is this a fucking Rich Rodriguez message board or a Michigan message board? All the stuff you guys are complaining about Rich Rod having to put up with is well deserved considering he was 3-9 and 5-7. I sure as hell hope somebody is giving him shit till he starts winning. This is all warranted, we've had two of the worst seasons in our history, bare cupboards or not. I hope we can pull it together this year and be 8-4, but after averaging 1.5 big ten wins the last two seasons its kind of hard to continue to have faith. The least of my concern is how does RR feel about people being pissed that our team has sucked it up.
And I really think some of you guys on here need to get your priorities straight in all of this. Enough excuses.
I hope we can pull it together this year and be 8-4, but after averaging 1.5 big ten wins the last two seasons its kind of hard to continue to have faith.
This might be the most bandwagonish thing I've ever heard from a Michigan fan. 130 years of awesome and now two seasons after the transition from hell you lose faith? I want to win, too, but to say Rod deserves utter incompetence from the administrative staff that's supposed to be helping him is ludicrous. He's been hamstrung in every way possible and yet you seem to want to blame nobody except Rich Rod. If you don't care that staff members who have been around a long time are now screwing up and making the new coach's job difficult and you only care about "giving shit" to the coach until he starts winning, then you are dead to me as a fan.
... to have faith [in RR] I never said he deserves utter incompetence from staff, he deserves the hot seat and people being upset with our lack of success on the field. Why are we Michigan fans concerned with whether or not he would want to stay? If he doesn't then fuck him! He hasn't done anything to earn our support besides be our coach. We don't owe him anything, especially for his lack of success. He needs to earn his admiration at Michigan. I'm sick of hearing about what he did at WV.
and perhaps you should also read your own signature at the bottom. "No excuses. Play like a champion."
triple post. Fuck me.
computer sucks
UNACCEPTABLE!!!!
To say this is a little premature is an understatement. All of us are in worst case scenario mode right now, and rightfully so given what we've had to deal with the past couple of years. At the same time, many of us forget how powerful simply winning can be. RR's anger is justified, but I have a hard time believing he'll bolt if and when he starts winning. I'm as pro-RR as you can get, but, hypothetically speaking, I'm not sure what big time programs will want him. That's obviously 100% conjecture, but given the controversy surrounding Michigan football (of course, I'm not suggesting said controversy is warranted or RR's fault), I think it would be difficult for RR to land a premier job at first, especially in today's WIN NOW NOW NOW environment.
Regardless, I hope this is the last bit of negative news we'll be subjected to this offseason. Additionally, I hope that the apparent disconnect between RR and admissions/whoever is rectified, and fast.
Michigan has bent over backwards for RR. Specifically, Michigan has (a) raised millions to help pay his WVU buyout penalty, (b) fired longstanding department staff and hired every single assistant coach and strength training staff he wanted, (c) spent over a million dollars on new strength training facilities and equipment, (d) stood by him during this entire NCAA fiasco, which will stand as a black mark on Michigan forever and (e) endured two horrific seasons, far worse than anyone imagined they would be when he was hired. So, help me again, what is RR's complaint?
Michigan is among a handful of elite FB schools in the country and RR would have an extremely difficult time leaving Michigan and finding himself better off. Unlike the OP, I am pretty sure RR sees the truth in everything I just wrote. On the other hand, if he doesn't, he should leave now so we can hire someone who does.
This is Michigan. It will and always should be a terminal job. No coach since Bo has seriously considered leaving, and of course Bo turned down TAMU as well. Before him, no coach ever left for a better job, and most stayed at Michigan even when they were done coaching. As long as we have the Big House, most wins all-time, and our helmet's got wings, no one, even Rodriguez, will leave. There are very few other NCAA jobs with the same prestige--OSU, ND, USC, Alabama, and Texas. RR is in a very select group of coaches, and he should hold onto the job as long as he can.
In the unlikely event he can go to the NFL, I guess it's a different story. But I don't see that happening for a spread coach any time soon.
It was sunny for the last 7 straight days, so it can't possibly rain tomorrow.