First team OL in practice today: Cole, Magnuson, Miller, Bosch, Dawson

Submitted by Wolverine Devotee on

At least one of the Kyles are in there?

 

The o-line has moving parts. Top line today. LT Cole (52); LG Magnuson; C Miller; RG Bosch; RT Dawson. pic.twitter.com/XBOHQfUPlz

— Tom Dienhart (@BTNTomDienhart) August 11, 2014

FreddieMercuryHayes

August 11th, 2014 at 12:40 PM ^

Personally, I'm not hitting the 'panic' button quite yet.  They still have some time before they need to decide on a starting OL, and experimentation or giving reps to a lot of guys in the first unit isn't a bad thing.  But if they still haven't identified a number 1 unit in a week, then I start panicing.  If they switch some positions up two days before the game, then I really start panicing.

Big_H

August 11th, 2014 at 12:48 PM ^

I really think we will be okay this year. What I'm hoping is that if we aren't playing that good by the Utah game we make some switches early. Unlike last year... I will not understand why we didn't move Mike Schofield back to LG and create a competant left side of the line. At least we could have done that. I WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND WHY THAT WASN'T TESTED.

BiSB

August 11th, 2014 at 12:56 PM ^

We KNOW the coaches said they were going to experiment this week,and we KNOW they said they would finalize a tentative rotation AFTER they experimented, so we KNOW this is part of their experimentation.

So, how about we wait until they SET a lineup before we freak out about that lineup?

MichiganTeacher

August 11th, 2014 at 1:05 PM ^

Not freaking out about the lineup. Inasmuch as freaking out is the right word, we're - or I'm - freaking out about the experimentation. It just doesn't seem like a good way to coach. Admittedly, I've never coached football. But I'd never do anything like this in basketball or even soccer, not in the first week of practice. I mean, you get the basics down first, then you experiment, rotate, etc. Last year, I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. This year, not so much. But I hope I'm wrong, maybe playing 3 OL positions in six days really isn't a big deal in football.

Salinger

August 11th, 2014 at 1:06 PM ^

Stop. Just stop with your rationizationized (Hoke'd) thinking, would you? No one wants to hear it.  Can't you see? The O-Line is going to be:

LT - Fleet

LG - Funk

C - Cookie Monster

RG - Jordan Diamond

RT - Mason Cole

njv5352

August 11th, 2014 at 1:29 PM ^

Completely agree with what you said.  The one thing I am most excited about is that Hoke has finally admitted a little bit that he is done giving seniors the "job" just because they are seniors.  I like the idea of playing with the line a bit to see how it mashes out.  I don't know why eveyone is freaking out about starting a freshman on the line, this wouldn't be the first time Nuss has used one and done just fine.  Maybe he really is that good of a player or maybe he hasn't bought into the whole "I will get to start cause I am a stud recruit" and is out there busting his butt.  Either way, I want the best 5 on the field....and by best five I mean mentally and physically the best five.

njv5352

August 11th, 2014 at 2:28 PM ^

I know the OLine doesn't, but the team in general has been given the warning.  Hoke was smart in getting his seniors to buy into his system the first year and maybe the second.  By his third the mood had changed and I firmly believe the players assumed that no matter how hard they worked the seniors would be given playing time over everyone else.  Hoke is smart to evolve that mentality and maybe should have started last year.  No one player should ever be more important than the team.

Reader71

August 11th, 2014 at 5:15 PM ^

There is tremendous evidence to refute your claim of Hoke ever favoring seniors. And there is almost none to support you. I know it can be hard, but we should discuss the goings on in this world, not your head. Funchess over Dileo. Butt over Williams. Ryan over Gordon. Morgan over Herron. Ross over Jones. Taylor over Avery. All of those young players started over older ones. If anything, one could argue that Hoke has shown a tendency to play his young guys over his non-entrenched upperclassmen or the guys he didn't recruit.

Leonhall

August 11th, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^

First, Miller is getting reps because Glasgow is suspended. Plus, Hoke already said the line changes from morning to afternoon. However, I do find it interesting that Kalis is MIA in regards to any mentioning by the Boss. Like someone else mentioned earlier, I don't like how so many of them are playing multiple positions, unless Nuss has TOTALLY simplified the scheme allowing a lot of flip-flopping without causing confusion. I will be nervousness if Cole is the starting LT...talented or not, he's a freshman...and it says a lot if a true freshman can come right in and start over guys who have had the same coaching for the past 3 years.

MichiganTeacher

August 11th, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^

I said this in the BTN thread, but yeah, I remain pessimistic. Even if you're trying to find what spots guys could play in case of injuries, it seems to make more sense to me to do that last and right now just get reps with your tackles, your guards, your center in ther primary spots.

And where is Kalis? Seems odd that we haven't heard anything about him at all.

I guess, by the criteria I seem to be going by (position shuffling = bad, not shuffling = good), then there's reason to be optimistic about Mason Cole. Even that, though - as others have said, that kid better be Jake Long Jr or else him passing highly touted guys in the program for three years is a deeply troubling sign.

Hannibal.

August 11th, 2014 at 1:02 PM ^

How are they supposed to develop chemistry if they are shuffling around for the entire spring and then half of the two-a-days?  Shouldn't at least a few of the spots, like Magnusson at LT, be decided by now? 

markusr2007

August 11th, 2014 at 1:07 PM ^

and at this late stage of practice we're still like:  "..er...wait a minute...uhhh...you and  you, switch!..." regarding the offensive line. 

Yes, it's still a young group, but goddammit man.   At the same time, even with a true frosh at LT (holy shit dude!), can't Michigan just run off RT or RE plus a shitload of QB draws and still be better than 3.3 ypa? I think it can. Maybe. Aw fuck.

 

 

ADSellers

August 11th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^

I'm going to tell myself that this is just Hoke letting Nuss try all the different personnel groups given that he's not all that familiar with our players yet. At least I'll be able to sleep at night if I tell myself that. 

reshp1

August 11th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^

For the sake of my own sanity, I'm putting the blinders on re:OL until at least the end of the week... when Hoke said they would like to have the starting 5 figured out.

bamf16

August 11th, 2014 at 1:15 PM ^

Patrick Kugler grew up in a house with an NFL Offensive Line coach.  I have a hard time believing that he and his father (with a brother playing Center for another B1G team - Purdue) would recognize a level of offensive line coaching as bad as many in the fan base think and not get the heck out.

 

If after retaining Funk Patrick Kugler transferred, I'd be much more worried about the OL combinations on August 11th.

LSAClassOf2000

August 11th, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^

In the event this detail was missed, Maize'N'Brew has you covered somewhat here - LINK

Per this article and I believe one or two others, the decision (which is probably still more like a draft of a proposal) on the first string offensive line is supposed to come sometime this week. That being said, Nussmeier did mention this, and I do agree:

"The sooner you can answer that question (starting OL) the better off you're going to be," said Nussmeier.

Hannibal.

August 11th, 2014 at 1:16 PM ^

They need to just go full-on Texas Tech and throw 40 short passes a game without about 5-10 downfield.  I don't see the offensive line being good enough for anything but that, and they have the QB&receiver talent. 

Reader71

August 11th, 2014 at 3:51 PM ^

Although Gardner has actually been pretty poor on the short stuff. The three step drops rely heavily on pre-snap reads, and that happens to be one of Gardner's weaknesses. He is much better on the long balls and very, very good on the intermediate stuff and going between the numbers.

Billy Ray Valentine

August 11th, 2014 at 1:17 PM ^

One of the nice benefits of this free blog is that many current and former coaches visit and post.  I would love to hear from the MGoCoaches about the prevailing philosophies when it comes to discovering the best depth chart during summer two-a-days.  I have my own experience, and my recollection is that daily line shuffles during early camp is not uncommon or automatically = DOOM.  That said, I consider myself an amateur, at best, when it comes to coaching dogma.

 

Maybe another reason that the current depth chart worries me little is the historical perspective.  Please don't confuse this point with some notion of believing that last year's OL was anything other than an abject disaster. 

 

The gold standard for modern Michigan teams is 1997.  This point is really not debatable.  In 1997, Terry Malone was a first-year OL coach taking over for DeBord.  Arguably, the '96 OL underachieved.  Senior Center Rod Payne was a 1st-team All-American, 2-time All Big 10, was team MVP, and a captain.  Senior LT Thomas Guynes was a returning starter, and was good enough to play 4 games for the Arizona Cardinals in '97.  Senior OG Damon Denson was a returning starter, and good enough to be drafted in the 4th round by the Patriots in '97.  This team, disappointingly, lost 4 games, even after a 4-0 start.  The '96 team also lost 3 of their last 4 games.  Of course, the one win was the legendary 13-9 upset at undefeated #2 Ohio State (which, I submit as Exhibit A in my argument that the '96 team underachieved).

 

The '97 OL heading into summer camp was a HUGE question mark.  Three starters needed to be replaced, and Zach Adami, a senior, was switiching to Center from OG for the first time.  RS Fr. Steve Hutchinson (YTSH) was being switched from defense to OG.  Junior Chris Zieman was a first year starter at guard.  RS Fr. Jeff Backus was a first-year starter at LT(!). 

 

Of course, it's crazy thinking to think that '14 will somehow be '97 repeated.  My only point is that worrying now seems a little premature.  Massive depth chart changes are not always a bad thing.  If the coaches find the 5 best for the OL, and they thrive during the real games, we all will rejoice.  If not, pitch-fork-tme will ensure, I'm sure.

bamf16

August 11th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^

In my playing days in college and then my coaching years thereafter, we never had an O-Line in flux as much as UM's is right now, never. ever.  I was a D-III 3 tech DL and a HS DL coach for 4 years, so that's 8 OLs, for what it's worth, though I was never intricately involved in them.  A situation like this, shuffling guys around with 19 days to go isn't unheard of, nor is it that big a deal.  Hoke's timetable of wanting this done at the end of this week is pretty standard for UM's situation.  As a player, we knew the competition for starting spots on the lines went until the last week and a half of camp when cohesion became a more prominent goal.  If you weren't a starter (we didn't really rotate like UM did last year) by that time, you're recourse was to get in the game as a sub in the first game or two and try to turn heads there and/or hope the guy in front of you effed up pretty bad.

 

I don't think our OLs in college ever replaced more than two starters, and never a situation like both tackles, both guards, or something like that.  It'd be a center and a RT, then the next year a RG and LT.  So it was pretty fluid.  With the high school kids, it was a little different.  My HC tried to nail down a starting OL at least a week before the first scrimmage, which was done on a Saturday morning, then we stayed the rest of the day after sending the kids home to watch film and make a definitive decision on our starters when they returned Monday for game week.  Rarely though did anything change, and our OLs started the year with a full two weeks of practicing together. 

 

Let's say worst case scenario, Hoke & Co. have NO IDEA what 5 they want going into the scrimmage Saturday night.  If it sorts itself out there, and come Sunday they make their decision, those kids have two weeks straight together before an opener against a I-AA team, and three weeks before traveling to South Bend.

 

Long story short, based on my playing and coaching, I'm not worried yet.

 

(And I'd be surprised if it's not Magnuson-Bosch-Glasgow (Miller/Kugler wk 1)-Kalis-Braden)