"Fire this coach!": A Michigan Basketball tradition
Michigan Daily
February 21, 1973-
According to Michigan Athletic Director Don Canham those South End Crisler Arena vocalists who have filled the air with shouts of "Orr must go" and variations on that theme, have done so in vain. Canham indicated to the Daily that Coach John Orr, much maligned for his cage squad's off again-on again performance will be on the bench leading the Wolverines next season.
"Orr will be back next season," Canham intoned. "I could not envision the season without him back."
***
In the past few weeks Orr has been under a good deal of criticism. His squad was expected by many to capture the Big Ten crown. However, the Wolverines have faltered at points during the Big Ten season and presently hold a 6-4 record.
During the defeat filled weeks many students and fans expressed more than mild displeasure with Orr's performance as coach.
The remainder of Johnny Orr's career-
| Season | Record | B1G | Place | Postseason |
| 1973-74 | 22-5 | 12-2 | T-1st | NCAA Elite Eight |
| 1974-75 | 19-8 | 12-6 | 2nd | NCAA Round of 32 |
| 1975-76 | 25-7 | 14-4 | 2nd | NCAA National Runner-Up |
| 1976-77 | 26-4 | 16-2 | 1st | NCAA Sweet Sixteen |
| 1977-78 | 16-11 | 11-7 | T-4th | |
| 1978-79 | 15-12 | 8-12 | 6th | |
| 1979-80 | 17-13 | 8-10 | T-6th | NIT Quarterfinals |
Michigan Daily
January 27, 1989-
Fans fired up to see Frieder flee
Crisler Arena crowds have been telling Bill Frieder to throw his trademark towel in some other town.
These fans, who proudly carry "Fire Frieder" and "We hate Bobby Knight, but at least he can coach" signs, have expanded their vocal chords recently, booing Frieder at every occasion. Monday, the crowd jeered Frieder louder than archnemesis Bob Knight.
Some campus-area apartments now have "Fire Frieder" signs hanging in the windows.
People were losing their minds over a coach having these results recently-
| Season | Record | B1G | Place | Postseason |
| 1984-85 | 26-4 | 16-2 | 1st | NCAA Round of 32 |
| 1985-86 | 28-5 | 14-4 | 1st | NCAA Round of 32 |
| 1986-87 | 20-12 | 10-8 | 5th | NCAA Round of 32 |
| 1987-88 | 26-8 | 13-5 | 2nd | NCAA Sweet Sixteen |
100-29 record the previous 4 years.
I know I wasn't around back then, and sure, the NCAA flameouts stand out. But fans back then didn't have to wait THAT much longer for a few long runs...
When people wanted Orr and Frieder gone, neither of them had any long run in the NCAA Tournament.
John Beilein already has a Final Four and two Elite Eights. And some people want him gone two years after them when the entire starting five on that Final Four team is playing in the NBA.
This is a case of two things.
1) People having the same expectations the Football program has and placing them on the shoulders of the Basketball program.
The Basketball program has a good history.
The Football program is arguably the top program in the sport all-time.
2) Know who you are. What good coach would want to come here if we fired one of the most respected men in the game 2-3 years after runs to the Elite Eight and Final Four? There were a lot of people flapping their gums in that 500+ comment threads, and none of them had realistic replacement suggestions.
This isn't Duke, Kansas or Kentucky.
February 8th, 2016 at 12:44 PM ^
I don't think it's necessarily the results over the past 2 years in isolation that drive some to call for JB's head, I think its the fact that the trajectory appears to be much of the same in conjunction with the on court results of the past 2 years.
I'm not in the fire JB camp, at least not as of this moment, as he has done enough to get through this year and next IMO, but its obvious that his recruiting and stylistic approach to basketball certainly needs revision. To put this in perspective, we we are all pretty anxious to see what JB could do with more experience and length in terms of the defensive end of the court, and it has actually regressed from last year, which is disturbing. On a positive note, Simpson and Poole appear to be upper tier guards, but our incoming bigs do concern me. Just don't know if we can keep up with upper tier B10 teams while being less athletic at pretty much every spot on the floor, especially with most of our roster (and incoming recruits) lacking in the motor department. Only time will tell............
February 8th, 2016 at 12:52 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 1:02 PM ^
All this is true, but you fail to acknowledge the shortcomings, which is my problem with your response. Have to examine the good with the bad, and quite frankly its about equal.........which is not what you want out of the BB program. Although we're 7-4 now, what do we all realistically expect to finish the year at..........most probably think 9-9 or 10-8, which is short of pre-season expectations. As I stated before, JB deserves this year and next, but something needs to change because the trajectory does not appear to be all that enticing if we're being frank about it.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:11 PM ^
the team this year...... playing against the same caliber opponent as State, Indiana, SMU, Xavier next year. When you are thinking about this, do you envision any change in the outcome? That is the problem most people have with the basketball team right now. There is not really any "we will get them next year" available to fans right now.
February 8th, 2016 at 2:30 PM ^
This. It's not that Michigan was blown out by MSU at home Saturday. It's that they were last year as well, and I see virtually no chance of beating them next year. Better times do not seem to be on the horizon, that's what I've been trying to say since Saturday.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:04 PM ^
Frankly, MSU has a top 5 - 10 basketball program in the nation and Izzo is bringing in the #2/3 class next year. I don't expect Beilein to beat them every year, but it is nice when he can. If Michigan doesn't make the tournament this year, then it's time to worry. So long as they can consistently make it into the dance and (hopefully) threaten into the second weekend, this is Beilein's team. Let's not forget that his squad was very close to a second consecutive Final Four only two years ago.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:18 PM ^
thanks, we all forgot that
February 8th, 2016 at 3:35 PM ^
Ohio State is that in football. Should we just plan on losing to them forever too? It feels like we're already halfway to that point.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:40 PM ^
healthy and on the court, we may have beat Sparty this year. We'll keep bringing in very good players while Beilein is here and we will be "B1G Champion" competitive again soon.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:56 PM ^
JB's system has never been built around one player dribble-drive basketball. It's about floor spacing, passing, and open looks. Somehow nearly the entire board has bought into Caris being the second coming of MJ. He's like the backup Qb who "has to be better than this bum"
Caris basically hasn't played in 2 years. When he did play this season he was a non-factor in loss against SMU. He's a solid player but I don't see him saving this season or living up to the mgohype and expectations.
February 8th, 2016 at 5:46 PM ^
We beat sparty with Caris this year. He might make the game less embarassing but we still lose by 10-15 points
February 8th, 2016 at 11:04 PM ^
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February 8th, 2016 at 2:36 PM ^
I frankly had no problem with the on-court results last year because of the injuries and losing all of the NBA talent. But this year and the next couple years are far more worrisome.
Due to the repeated recruiting failures over the last few years, I don't see much improvement coming anytime soon. Maybe some people are fine with just being a bubble team most years, but I expect more out of the program now that we have great facilities and a recent track record of some on-court success.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:24 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 3:46 PM ^
Teske and Davis are rated 145 and 178 and look to be projects who will take considerable time to develop. Hell, Donnal was rated #84 and needed two and a half years to even be useful.
February 8th, 2016 at 4:15 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 4:35 PM ^
Even if you want to give Beilein a pass for big man development, saying that they need time to be viable (which is horseshit) , it's still his fault for constructing the roster the way it is such that it is unbalanced. He's the one who has to play freshman bigs because of poor foresight and roster management.
February 8th, 2016 at 7:05 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 9:28 PM ^
Jordan Morgan was a viable player as a redshirt freshmen for example. Tons of big men are every year. Right now, the only viable D1 big on the roster is Mark Donnal, and he's probably not starter level. It just so happens that Beilein has recruited bad bigs who need years just to become D1 players.
February 8th, 2016 at 11:34 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 11:31 PM ^
I think the difference is that Izzo has a steady stream of guys - Suton, Green, Payne, Nix, non-stop. Not many down years. He also has physical, athletic guys like Dawson.
Hard to call that getting a pass vs having literally 0 effective post presence.
February 9th, 2016 at 4:50 AM ^
you realize he would be a senior right now? so would griii and stauskus. izzo has had like two guys jump early in the last 10 years. JB has had 5 in 5 years; and having 3 sophs jump in one year is a killer.
izzo's success is primarily due to senior players. outside of harris, i can't think of any msu stud as a frosh or soph in a decade. JB has had several. also, costello is a senior and shilling is a junior. look at those guys' stats their first two years. not real good.
we lose nobody off this roster next year. ya, i don't count caris or spike since they are basically gone already. we will finally have a roster with several upper classmen. and all the remaining guys will get better, because, you know, that's what college kids do. and there is no better teacher in the game than JB. plus, i expect simpson to provide good minutes off the bench. no more dakich.
we are a 10-8 type team in the BIG right now w/o caris. it will be better next year.
February 9th, 2016 at 10:48 AM ^
not sure if you were replying to me directly, but my comment was specifically regarding big men in response to someone saying Izzo gets a pass. I wouldn't cnsider GRIII or stauskus big men, so those guys jumping early doesn't really play in to my point.
its funny though how everyone says just wait til we get Caris back this year, but you say we basically don't lose anyone. Hard to be better when you lose a first round pick. Who is better than levert on the team? Also, yes kids can get better, and Dakich replacement is an upgrade regardless. The question is how much better? Good enough to compete with IU or MSU?
Sounds like some poeple on here are expecting 25-5 year the way they are talking about upperclassmen, development, "top talent" coming in next year (not you specifically)...I think there is a LOT of questions still on this team. Lot's of similar comments last year at this time, and that was when the team was peaking late, not trending down.
February 9th, 2016 at 10:53 AM ^
my question though. Who has progressed? Dawkins is a carbon copy of last year and has regressed on defense. RAWK shows some promise with penetration but he is a disaster from deep and also looks lost on defense. Doyle has regressed, Wilson looks baffled by the concept of basketball altogether and Chatman gets time only when opponents are running up the score. There are some positive signs with Donnal, but let's be honest, how much higher does Donnal's ceiling go. He is in his third year in the program and Costello just spun and dunked on him like he was f-ing Shaq and Donnal could not do a thing about it. Izzo's players progress, slowly, but the difference is evident year to year. That is not the case here right now.
EDIT: And while I am at it I will reply a little to the comment directly above this one. I think Levert is good enough that if he returns and is full go by like Maryland or OSU, he could steal us one of those or perhaps the Iowa finale, which I think would likely get us in the tourney they way I see things lining up. But with regard to next year, I do think that Levert moving on will actually be a net gain. The last two years have been this weird thing where the "team leader" is actually on the bench and other guys are not sure what roles to adopt. I really like Caris but I think the time has come where his presence is reaching diminishing returns for the team as a whole.
February 9th, 2016 at 12:26 PM ^
February 9th, 2016 at 12:44 PM ^
are really overreacting. I don't go out of my way to "praise" Izzo, nor am I hitting the team with "low blows" They just played back to back games where they were down 25 points in both games at home. I am not personally insulting anybody here, I am discussing their play.
February 9th, 2016 at 2:45 AM ^
i am not a jb hater and do not wish for him to be fired but this is where all those defending jb are wrong. the reason we have had recent on court success doesn't lie on jb's shoulders, it lies on the players shoulders. being a good coach can only take you so far. if you want to compete with the michigan states of the world you have to recruit well. that's where jb falls short.
February 9th, 2016 at 5:03 AM ^
no one could have predicted that UM would lose 3 sophs. recruiting starts early. and offers go out by the time kids are juniors in high school. when all those guys jumped, we had chatman and wilson in the fold; two four star guys.
when all those guys jumped, though, he had to fill out the roster; hence maar and dawkins. i have no doubt JB will get enough kids he wants going forward to be successful. we also, will have experienced teams going forward vs having some of the youngest in the country the past few years.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:03 PM ^
Yes, I can easily envision a change in outcome. We lose nobody that is contributing today. LaVert hasn't played recently and we lost Spike early in the season. Everyone else is back. You write as if no one ever improves over the course of their college careers. Two quick counterexamples - Frank Kaminsky's scoring average went from 1.8 to 4.2 to 13.9 to 18.8 PPG in his four years in Madison. Jarrod Uthoff transferred from Wisconsin, sat a year, and saw his PPG go from 7.6 to 12.4 to 18.4 this season.
If you don't think Beilein is capable of overseeing similar dramatic improvements you are ignoring the careers of Darius Morris, Trey Burke and the in-season improvement of Mark Donnal. Just for once, I'd like to see Beilein coach an experienced, senior-laden team. Oh wait, he did that with Novak and Douglass and they freaking won the damn Big Ten conference outright. You debbie downer / negative nancy types need to give it a rest already.
February 8th, 2016 at 7:08 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 1:11 PM ^
I think that would be on the very low end of where people think we finish. Michigan has had no issue beating the teams it should this year; Minnesota and Northwestern will be wins. I have a hard time seeing us losing every other remaining game. I still think 11 wins is the number, which actually is where a lot of us thought we would be.
February 8th, 2016 at 2:17 PM ^
I don't know about that. If you look over the rest of the schedule with a realistic eye after the past two curb-stompings, 9-9 definitely seems like the most likely result and perhaps even a hopeful one at that.
At that point some matchup related luck in the B1G tournaemtn still sees M in the Big Dance, but the remainder of the schedule does look pretty rough.
February 8th, 2016 at 4:08 PM ^
So beating Minnesota and NW and losing to everyone else (including average teams like OSU and Wisconsin) is a hopeful result? I feel like that's wildly pessimistic. Not saying we're going 13-5 or anything, but I'd probably set the over/under at 10.5 and lean toward the over at 11.
I guess if you subscribe to the view that the last two games is what we'll see all year, your point is fair. But I think we'll get things together and be comfortably in the tournament in the 7-9 seed range (we're still at a 9 right now).
And if you look at the expectations for John Beilein's tenure at Michigan when he got here, this is about what we all expected. Whether that is acceptable to the fan base at this point is a different question, and one I'm personally torn on. I don't think the picture is as clear as some are making it right now. There are more views out there than just BEILEIN SUCKS and BEILEIN IS GOD.
February 8th, 2016 at 7:16 PM ^
They looked bad against Minnesota and Rutgers as well, even in victory, this is not based on the last two games. This is based on what we have seen out of them so far in Big Ten season and from non-conference as well. Beyond Northwestern, what game do you truly feel good about? The Minnesota game was far from a comfortable win and now Michigan has to face a team at home that is likely DESPERATE for a win and smelling blood.
Based on what I've seen from the balance of the season, this stretch of the schedule coming up is pretty damn scary. I've been pretty balanced on Beilein throughout the thread, I think he's a good coach with some limits and blindspots and this years team is just off and thus my prediction that the season closeout is likely not to be fun, you can call it wild pessimisim, I call it a fairly neutral assessment of where the team is. For the record 9-9 is what I thought would happen when I looked at the rest of the schedule BEFORE the Indiana and Michigan St. disasters. I'm just not seeing where any more than two wins are suppossed to come from. After that, lets see what happens in the Big Ten tournament and then what happens next year, when the team will be one year older and hopefully ready to go on a run.
February 8th, 2016 at 7:50 PM ^
Fair enough. I really don't feel comfortable about any game than the two I mentioned, but feel like a Maryland or Texas performance will show up and we get 1 or 2 we don't expect. I just hope you're wrong! I will eat a lemon if we lose to Minnesota.
February 9th, 2016 at 9:37 AM ^
Feel free, but having eaten a lemon before(when your 16 month old son thinks feeding you lemon slices is hilarious, you grin and bear it) I am certainly not going to hold you to it.
February 9th, 2016 at 12:52 AM ^
I'd like to think they'll finish better than 9-9 but I completely see what you're saying. I agree about their play against Rutgers, PSU and Minny - it wasn't that good. However, those teams are BAD and UM was still able to pull out W's. I tend to think their play against IU and MSU was unfortunately the way they've playing for a couple weeks, that play was masked though by how bad Rutgers, Minny and PSU are. Outside of Minny and NU there aren't any 'guaranteed Ws'. Away games at Wisky and at OSU are going to be dogfights. I doubt they win at Maryland, and Iowa and Purdue are not good matchups for UM. Since the Hawkeyes and Boilermakers come to AA, that helps - maybe UM can pull off another upset like they did against Maryland, but I'm not counting on it.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:16 PM ^
I'm in agreement with you. Beilein is a good but not great coach. Keeping him around long term would be fine since he has provided some much needed stability and results in his tenure. However I see Michigan continuing as a 20 wins a year team with 9 to 10 wins in the B1G. Good enough to get into the tournament each year but probably not playing into the second weekend very often.
It makes me realize how special and ultimately overlooked in High School Burke, Stauskas, and Hardaway were. We can't expect Beilein to turn every 3 star recruit into an NBA player.
February 8th, 2016 at 1:42 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 2:35 PM ^
The reason their fans probably weren't freaking out is they went undefeated in non-conference play with wins over Kansas, Louisville, Providence and Florida. Sparty proved in the non-conference slate that they could play with and beat good teams.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:35 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 2:40 PM ^
Donnal is the only player at the 5 that fits that description. Maybe you could included Chatman at the four but he was obviously way overrated and pretty much a bust.
February 8th, 2016 at 3:28 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 4:02 PM ^
Teske and Davis are rated #148 and 175, Wilson was rated # 123 and Wagner was rated 115th.
Davis' rankings are NOT sky rocketing, he plays suspect competition and will need a load of time to develop. Just look at Wilson and Mo this year if you think Teske and Davis will step in right away and solve any problems.
http://michigan.247sports.com/Season/2016-Basketball/Commits
February 8th, 2016 at 4:23 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 5:39 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 6:08 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 6:24 PM ^
Horford and Morgan were hardly elite big men...they were good enough to get the job done unlike what we have now.
February 8th, 2016 at 7:16 PM ^
February 8th, 2016 at 11:12 PM ^
is you continuing to write things that aren't true and the fact that your reasons for optimism are two poorly rated big men that are currently young seniors in high school and a guy who can't crack the rotation in the middle of his sophomore year despite a massive need at his position.