A few clarifying facts about Oregon-Arizona
Why does this require it's own post? Because some people are going to suggest that Zona' performance is "proof" of RR's status as the next Saban.
Here's why it it questionable.
Oregon's OL is flat out atrocious due to injuries. They gave up 7 sacks to Washington State's crappy defense. If WSU can cause havoc in Oregon's backfield than that suggests Oregon isn't very good at this blocking thing. In all honesty we ought to have been on upset alert after Oregon struggled to beat what is a bad Washington State team.
Secondly, Arizona is 75th in the nation(after tonight) in scoring defense. That is atrocious and reminiscent to what RR did at UM.So contrary to what some have suggested RR still does not have a good defense.Casteel is not the miracle worker some have made him out to be.
It's about fit and RR fits better in the Pac 12 than in the Big Ten. RR's emphasis is on speed while the Big Ten is size and power.
In having said all that it has to feel good for RR for his team to flourish whilst UM's goes Three Mile Island. The injustice he was subjected to by some UM "supporters" while head coach has to have Rodriguez' inner Nelson express itself.
UM is an embarrassment. Arizona is seemingly on the rise. What a perfect storm of suck this is for Dave Brandon and Michigan fans.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:39 AM ^
Rich Rod is a damn fine coach and a good guy, but the fact is he didn't do well at Michigan. The group he inhereted at Michigan wasn't up to snuff, but it also wasn't 9 losses bad. The fact that he missed a bowl game two years in a row was also a problem. By the time his third year happened, Rich Rod's Michigan program was too toxic to salvage. People had seen enough of his elite offenses not come out for big games and had seen enough of his defenses repeatedly breaking down.
Now, there are reasons for both of those things (youth and attrition played a big role there), some Rich Rod's doing, a lot not. But the point is that while Rich Rod is a damn fine coach, he simply wasn't for Michigan both because of things outside of his control and things within his control. The fact that people are still making the claim "he's doing this with 2 star talent, not 4-5 star talent like he could get at Michigan" already proved not to matter. He got a ton a 4-5 star talent at Michigan that didn't work.
To paraphrase what Dantonio said recently about Hoke: the ball kind of gets rolling one way or another and it's tough to change it. Seriously, unless you are given a ton of time and consistent support regardless of success, in this day and age with the media frenzy and win for me now attitude of fans, there simply isn't time to make those corrections. Rich Rod didn't have that time at Michigan. The ball got rolling, a good coach had some bad luck, it was time to move on, and it really doesn't matter your thoughts on Hoke in this situation, it was simply time with the way college football works today. I don't like that it's like that, but it is.
As for people around here, there seems to be a lot of people that want to rub this in everyone's faces like "I told you so!" The circumstances are absolutely different at Arizona as they were at Michigan. Maybe Rich is more comfortable at that size of a program with a little less pressure and a bit less expectations. There are a lot of maybe's. But most anyone with a half a brain knows Rich Rod is a good coach, and has the potential to lead a good program, but it didn't work at Michigan, it wasn't working, for a variety of reasons, that's the way it was. Don't go making it revisionist and act like everything was hunky dory and he was just let go just because of it, that's not the case.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:43 AM ^
Rich's record over the past nine seasons:
West Virginia (2005-2007): 31-5
Michigan (2008-2010) 15-22
Arizona (2012-2014) 21-10
What's the constant and what's the variable? Unless we believe that he took stupid pills when he got here or simply forgot how to coach during his tenure at Michigan I would suggest the problem was MICHIGAN - not Rich - and the increadibly toxic and divisive situation he was thrust into.
We are getting exactly what we deserve right now and so is he.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:32 AM ^
And a lot of what went wrong was outside his control, but some of it was also his own doing. He came in alienating people. He came in and went 3-9 his first year with much more talent than 3-9. But he and Michigan (because of Michigan's toxic atmosphere) sparred early, then Rich Rod didn't have success, and a sparring session turned into a war because of Michigan's internals. The ball got rolling and neither helped each other out.
I rooted for Rich Rod his entire tenure at Michigan. I went into his one bowl game at Michigan, hoping with all my hope, that he'd prove he turned the team into something better than it was and showed he was going to have success at Michigan. He didn't. There are a variety of reasons for those, a lot of those beyond his control, but he wasn't completely without fault either (for whatever reason, his teams suffered from a lot of the same issues currently plaguing Hoke's staff, a lack of attention to details where assignments and techniques are not being executed consistently; for Rich Rod it was obviously more on defense but not exclusively; for Hoke it's more on offense but not exclusively). He had some bad luck and it took off on him, and that sucks for him and it sucks for Michigan and Michigan brought a lot of it on itself.
FWIW, and I was editting my comment when you made this comment, but, two things that aren't responsible for Rich Rod not working out at Michigan: Spread Offense and 3-3-5 Defense. Scheme wasn't the issue, despite the fact that people still bring up the 3-3-5 like it's some kind of plague. It takes a different sort of athlete, a more hybrid kind that typically isn't going to be as consistent in how they pan out (more uncertainty), but the scheme is fine and can work, obviously.
I don't get why everyone wants this to be black and white, why everyone wants to have "the good guys" and "the bad guys". That's not how it is. Is it unfair that Hoke got treated better than Rich Rod? Absolutely. But spare me the Rich Rod was completely without fault argument that seems to be the going theme here. It was a complex situation where both sides shared fault; it just sucks that Michigan's program is part of that shared fault.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:55 AM ^
Take your blinders off SC and see it for what it was - Michigan ran him off because they didn't like him and they gave him no support at all.
The guy was fired after 3 seasons - how many programs have ever done that? - before he had a chance to unleash Denard.
He just took a bunch of 2* and 3* athletes and beat the #2 team in the country in Eugene.
For every fact you guys want to trot out in support of "he just didn't work here" there are twice as many facts suggesting it was 90% Michigan's fault.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:05 AM ^
All I'm saying is that Rich Rod was partially culpable as well. He came in an alienated a lot of people, some of it for things outside his control (the way he talked), but some within his control. He made a lot of blunders early on. But people didn't mind that and would have continued not minding that for at least a little while had he made it to a bowl game in year one.
The problem was that Michigan had just gone to some crazy amount of straight bowl games, Michigan hadn't won fewer than six games since 1967, and had only won six games once in that time frame (1984). Rich Rod came in saying a lot of negative things about the program and the way it was run, some of it, frankly, was correct. But if you're going to bad mouth a program that hasn't had a losing season since the 60's, you better not start out 3-9, 5-7.
Rich Rod didn't get the support he deserved to get, no one denies that. But to act like he wasn't without blame at all is putting the blinders on. Is he 25% to blame? 10%? 50%? I dunno, but he isn't absolvable. He deserves some of the blame as well. His talent evaluation wasn't great (many of his "good" talent went on to pan out no where), he came in firing shots against a successful program, and he lost games, and people turned on him like he had leprosy. That's BS, but he isnt' without fault, he wasn't a perfect angel that made a mistake walking into hell.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:18 AM ^
Don't feed him.
He just makes shit up to make it up...go to the OPEN thread from last night. It's a joke.
He'll say you said shit that you flat out never said and can never quote you on it.
It's one of those people that think just because you don't think something or someone was good, automatically means you think someone or something is bad.
Be prepared to be called a Rich Rod hater, just because you can fully explain why he was fired and should've been fired at Michigan. Never once will you call him a bad coach, never once will you say he sucks or anything.
You simply just don't believe it was going to work out at Michigan, you saw no promise, you saw the awful conference record, 137 points given up in the final 3 games (and 14 scored in the final game), and no light at the end of the tunnel.
None of that means you like Hoke either. But he'll make claims that you do...just because you agree that Rich Rod should've been let go.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:29 AM ^
Fuck off, Yost. It's not my fault you couldn't see the light at the end of the tunnel. Firing a coach after three years is something we laughed at ND for doing.....and then we did it ourselves.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:36 AM ^
Share some video. Share some numbers. Share some facts. I'll wait.
People always mentioned the Mississippi State game, but you can't forget about the 2 before that Gator Bowl. Those always get lost in the shuffle.
49-137.
That mighty offense put up 16.3 points per game in the last 3 games. Everyone forgets that...they talk about the promise and how they loved the offense. No, they loved it when it WORKED. In those 3 games, we scored 16PPG! That's absurd.
Meanwhile, we gave up 137! That's just as mind-numbing.
This was in Rich Rod's 3rd year and at the end of the season. This was the portion of the season where you needed to see some progress, some light, some of the future. 49-137 isn't going to cut it. I'm sorry.
It doesn't make him a terrible coach, it doesn't make me a Rich Rod hater, it's just facts. He's a very solid coach and a very good offensive mind. But that doesn't mean he shouldn't have gotten fired for failing to do his job successfully.
16.3 points per game, for a Rich Rodriguez coached team. Then turn around and allow a combined 137. I just don't see how other people can't see it.
I know the ND games were excited and 67 in 3(OT) was awesome and Denard was Denard...but damn, we forget about bad it really had gotten that year.
And he wasn't doing anything to show anyone it was going to get better. That's the problem. Maybe if he starts the year with those numbers and finishes the year strong, it's a debate. In fact, I honestly think it would be. But you can't finish your 3rd year like that after doing nothing in year's 1 and 2 and expect people to feel good about the direction of the program.
So what tunnel? Those were the last 3 games Rich Rod coached at Michigan. That was the end of his tunnel. Where was the light? I'm waiting for you to share some facts, some numbers, video, some type of proof to show me that Michigan was certainly going to get better and compete against teams with a pulse outside of the month of Septemeber.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:45 AM ^
One more thought on that comment.
Even if we still lose those last games...but we lose 120-137, I think you have an argument. Because at least we can say "he's an offensive genius and his offense is working...we just have to fix the defense, again."
But he scored 16 points per game in those last three. C'mon man, you can't argue that. The offensive genius wasn't even showing light at the end of the tunnel...wait for it...ON OFFENSE. The offense was horrible and the defense was the worst in school history.
I repeat, where is the light and the promise? If you can show me this light, I promise I'll put down my sword and come over to your side. But you can't, those are the numbers and you can't even twist them to make an argument. The only arguement you could've made was the one I made above, if we scored 120 points over that stretch. But we didn't. We didn't even score half that. We had no offense. We had no defense.
But hey, at least Will Hagerup was 10x better than he is now...right!?!
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:51 AM ^
He was a dead man walking at the end of his 3rd year because Brandon would not support him. It does not surprise me he lost the bowl game in embarrassing fashion.
And if you want to argue facts I think it would be helpful if you used more advanced statistics and by every advanced statistical measure you can find, his Offensive was a top level offense. You are using very outdated measures to support your facts and refuse to look deeper into why there was failure.
You don't think Denard, after setting records as a 1st yr starter as a SO, would have improved in RRod's system given 1 more year? You don't think opening the pocket book to get Casteel would have improved the D? Bringing Mattison in DID improve it so I think the issue was symply one of not having the right coach(es) on D.
If you want to cling to W/L as the ultimate arbiter of success and failure,. that is your preogative but it's antiquated and doesn't factor in any mitigating factors.
Removing Michigan, his record is 54-15 with many wins against top 10 (and now Top 2) opponents. The only time he sucked was at Michigan. That tells me maybe he wasn't at fault for the shit show we had during his tenure.
P.S. - I should not have told you to fuck off, I apologize.
October 4th, 2014 at 1:39 PM ^
Football is more than just offense. Our offense sucked against good teams when we played them in October and November.
We racked up a bunch of big numbers vs. bad teams. Even still what about defense and special teams? Even if our offense was explosive versus good teams...you have to win games.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:20 AM ^
He certainly had faults - a lot of them.
But a lot of the problems he had at Michigan wouldn't have happened to Hoke because he's a Michigan Man.
And most of the talent issues would have doomed whoever was the HC at the time. LC left a tire fire and encouraged anyone tied to his years to pour gasoline on it.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:55 AM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:30 AM ^
SpaceCoyote:
Most of what you say has already been said in this thread, but this is something that astounds me:
"He got a ton a 4-5 star talent at Michigan that didn't work."
It did work. It worked in 2011 and 2012. With a head coach who got the DC of his choice at a premium salary.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:27 AM ^
Sent from MGoBlog HD for iPhone & iPad
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:45 AM ^
RR record:
2005 11-1
2006 11-2
2007 11-2
2012 8-5
2013 8-5
2014 5-0 (so far)
That's 54-15 in the years surrounding Michigan. Pretty good
Yeah, his teams at Michigan sucked because of the defense (3-3-5 in Big Ten was dumb), but he improved every year, he didn't turn into a bad coach when he came to Michigan. Hoke's record outside of Michigan was marginal at best and his teams get worse every year.
I think if Rodriguez had gotten another year there's a good chance he'd still be at Michigan. Too bad he got run off for not being a Michigan man.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:57 AM ^
May be he was run off because he was not Michigan Man. I think it is because DB wanted his man, a puppet, but nothing to do with RR being not a Michigan Man. I am convinced based on what I have seen just this week from DB.
I am also convinced that if RR was a Michigan Man with bad records, he will still be here.
DB was the problem and Michigan fans agreed with that idiot because DB was one of us.
RR wasn't and DB wanted him to go. Plain and Simple.
I wish RR well and also DB. DB is still our alumni, but he needs to go screw other rich people and not the poor students here. See you DB. I wish we would have charged you for every cup of water you had on the sideline.
Wish you will RichRod. Good luck!
And fire DB!
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:44 AM ^
Bottom line is, I would take Rich Rod w/ the money brady got to spend on a defensive coordinator over what we have had the last 4 years. I cant help but wonder where our program would be now. If there is truly a "Bo" faction and a "Loyd" faction, then maybe having someone over time that was associated with either was the way to go. I will be honest and say I wanted RR gone when he was fired, but I had no idea that he got no support including $$$ to spend on assistant coaches. Our offense was fine, we had no problem scoring points......our defense as awful.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:51 AM ^
AZ-USC should be fun. Get that one RR, and it is on!
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:52 AM ^
Hey, I realize the transitive property doesn't work, but here are a few more interesting facts...
1. Arizona beat Oregon at night, on the road, and he did it without the collection of 4 and 5 star talent assembled in Ann Arbor.
2. Oregon beat WSU and the BIG's best team MSU.
3. WSU may be better than we think, given that it beat Utah - a team that beat Michigan handily in Ann Arbor.
Now for a guess....what do you think Michigan's chances of beating that Oregon team, at Autzen, last night, in Hoke's fourth year, after 3+ years of remarkable recruiting success and a 5th yr QB (or a 5* soph QB), lead by a NC-caliber OC and a Pro-caliber DC?
Give up? The answer is absolute zero, zip, nada. And RR was the problem around here, right?
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:04 AM ^
| Div I - FBS | Michigan | is better than | Southern Miss |
because Michigan beat Appalachian St 52 - 14 while Southern Miss only beat Appalachian St 21 - 20 |
| Div I - FBS | Southern Miss | is better than | FL Atlantic |
because Southern Miss only lost to Alabama 52 - 12 while FL Atlantic lost to Alabama 41 - 0 |
| Div I - FBS | FL Atlantic | is better than | Arizona |
because FL Atlantic beat UT San Antonio 41 - 37 while Arizona only beat UT San Antonio 26 - 23 |
We are very lucky that we have Hoke instead of RR. Dodged a bullet on that one.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:52 AM ^
What's with this "Rich Rod is not Nick Saban" bullshit? NOBODY is making that argument! Does it feel good to beat up that straw man? Did Rich Rod kill your dog or something?
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:54 AM ^
This whole premise is crap, Arizona was missing their top two o-line guys.. one injured in the first quarter.
Get over it, cognative dissosance. It dickrod would have been given the coordinator he wanted and had been given the respect he DESERVED, he would have likely been successful here.
That's just a fact we have to live with and GET OVER....
The most respectable thing to do is be happy for the guy, because we never were when he was fighting for us and we were shitting on him.
Good luck, rich.
October 3rd, 2014 at 8:58 AM ^
First off. I don't care what "facts" you have. There is no way Michigan (under Hoke) could beat Oregon, no matter how depleted Oregon was. So give credit where credit is due. I haven’t seen anyone say Rich Rod is the next Saban, however I do think Rich Rod is a good coach and he is a much better coach than Hoke.
Secondly, you said “It's about fit and RR fits better in the Pac 12 than in the Big Ten. RR's emphasis is on speed while the Big Ten is size and power.” That is not a Fact that’s an opinion. Ohio St has been a spread offense with lots of speed for a while and definitely all the years that Urban has been there. Yet last year they only lost once in the big ten. The year before Ohio State won EVERY GAME! So to say speed doesn’t win in Big Ten is just plain wrong and not a fact!
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:02 AM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:00 AM ^
Richrod never received the necessary support from the administration or the fans. I wish him the best of luck at Arizona, but he isn't at Michigan anymore and we need to move on. We kicked him out the door and now I am sure he is smirking to himself about what is going on at Michigan now that we got a "Michigan Man".
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:00 AM ^
Jim Harbaugh's Stanford teams went 1-3 against Oregon during his tenure. Chip Kelly was OC at Oregon the first two of those 4 years and the HC the last two of those 4 years. RR is 2-1 against Oregon. Remember the 2007 Oregon team waxed manball Michigan in Ann Arbor.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:07 AM ^
This utterly fucking moronic revisionist history bullshit about how we made a mistake firing RichRod has got to stop. It has got to stop right now. Apparently, people have really short memories.
RichRod inherited a defense that was returning most of its core from the 2007 unit. Everyone expected it to be a team strength headed into 2008. Everyone. That team "strength" got worse as the year went along. They got run off the field by a 5-7 Illinois team and then gave up 520 yards to Purdue's third string QB (who had been practicing at WR a couple of weeks earlier). There's a reason why Scott Shafer got fired. Our 2008 defense sucked ass. Remember that was also the team that couldn't catch a punt to save their lives. I have watched college football for 34 years and I have absolutely never seen a team so hopelessly inept as that one when it came to fielding punts.
He fired Scott Shafer when he should have fired Tony Gibson. Instead, he rewarded Tony Gibson by making him the special teams coach in 2010, and our special teams got worse. Tony Gibson promptly followed up his accomplishments at Michigan by bringning his services to Arizona, where RichRod's first defense was an incredible 40 yards per game worse than his worst defense at Michigan. When he finally got rid of that shmuck, the Arizona defense improved by 80 yards per game next year and that became the unit that blew out Oregon and Boston College.
Don't forget about the two year Jay Hopson disaster. RichRod's defensive assistants were God awful.
RichRod lost his last two games by a combined score of 89-21. In 2010, Penn State's walk-on QB in his first start shredded us for over 300 yards passing. Do we need to see the jpeg of J.T. Floyd getting turned around again? Do we need to go back to the quotes of the Penn State players who were laughing at how we were putting six men in the box on a goal line play? RichRod's attention to defense and special teams were appalling. His defenses were always terrible. Always
RichRod was -33 on turnovers in 28 games against the B1G, ND, and the one bowl game. His team lost an astounding 45 fumbles in three years.
His 2010 recruitng class was abysmal. Probably the worst that this program has ever had. He dished out scholarships to questionable 3* athletes like Halloween candy, and most of them didn't even stick around. He piled up 3* RB/slot receiver types like they were gold and Ann Arbor was Fort Knox. Do we need to go over that again? He was a terrible recruiter.
Here is what his 2011 recruiting class looked like the day he was fired...
Greg Brown
Delonte Hollowell
Brennan Beyer
Chris Rock
Jack Miller
Kellen Jones
Tony Posada
Justice hayes
Desmond Morgan
Blake Countess
Is that the recruiting class of a coach you want to keep? Remember what a terrible judge of talent RichRod was? Greg Brown and Delonte Hollowell were early offerees. Those were plan A guys. The only decent player who we probably would have added if RichRod had stayed was Chris Bryant. His O-line and D-line recruiting were terrible. Do we need to go back and revisit all of the posts from last year blaming our offensive line woes on RichRod? Some of that was valid. It doesn't excuse Hoke's piss poor player development, but the fact that we had nobody to throw out there from the 2010 or 2011 classes who was any good is RichRod's fault.
RichRod had to go. He should have been gone way before the bowl game. He was a terrible terrible coach at Michigan. I don't know why he was a terrible coach at Michigan, but he was. He was terrible in ways that overload all of the excuses that can be made for him. He is a better coach at Arizona. Minus Tony Gibson and plus Scott Shafer are probably huge factors. Maybe he was humbled a bit by his Michigan experience and he has mellowed out some. Or, maybe it's still too early to judge his accomplishments there since he started out 5-0 here in his last year. What I do know for sure is that the RichRod tenure sucked at Michigan, and it was RichRod's fault that it sucked. Stop the revisionist history and stop blaming Brandon for firing him. If anything, blame Brandon for not firing him and getting Hoke in place six weeks sooner.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:20 AM ^
...but it's worth the read.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:30 AM ^
No one is arguing that Rodriguez didn't suck here. What is argued is this:
A. The team he walked into was not a good one, especially on offense. The defense did return a large number of starters and played like it...for a while. That defense actually reminds me a lot of last year's defense. They were pretty good, but seemed to give out due to prolonged offensive incompetency. According to FEI, Michigan was ranked 44th in 2008 and 37th last year. So pretty similar. The difference was the offense in 2008 was a gigantic 0.
B. Rodriguez did not have the support of the AD to go out and do what he wanted in regards to assistants. Jeff Casteel is a really good DC. Last year he had Arizona right around the Top 25 in defenses. Arizona, in the PAC-12! But for some reason two ADs would not offer him the money to come to Michigan. Constrast that with Hoke, who has two of the highest paid coordinators in the country.
C. Rodriguez was bad here. 15-22 is bad. There's no sugarcoating it. However, he was improving each year (albeit he started from the bottom). His offense did look like it was going to very good going forward. The team did return 20 starters going into 2011. So...If you could find yourself in a position where someone like Jim Harbaugh was going to be the hire, by all means hire him. But when Brady Hoke is your answer, then sticking with Rodriguez and adding Jeff Casteel is the right choice.
(Without getting into, imagine how difficult recruiting is when you can't even be certain if you're going to be there the next year. Ask yourself: How many recruits is Brady Hoke going to add to the class throughout this season?)
I respect your opinion, but I think it doesn't account for everything that went on here.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:53 AM ^
...except for the offense was looking better.
It was looking better because in 2008 Nick Sheridan and Steven Threet were running it. In 2010 it still sucked at the end of the year. It was just better than all of 2008.
Every Rich Rod offense (at Michigan) after Oct. 1 was awful against any team with a pulse.
We were playing the 67-65 type games versus bad Indiana and Illinois teams, not MSU, Wisconsin, Nebraska and Ohio State.
The offense was only good in September.
In Rich Rod's final year, he only broke 30 twice after Oct. 1. @PSU we lost 31-41, and then the 3OT game vs. Illinois.
PSU was on probation after the biggest scandal in CFB history, Illinois was a middle of the road regular ol' Illinois team.
The offense wasn't looking better, we just had more explosive plays.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:59 AM ^
Penn State was not under sanctions in 2010. The Sandusky thing didn't break until partway through the 2011 season.
That 2010 PSU team was still pretty bad, though. I went to that game in Happy Valley and probably have never been more disheartened after a loss ... until I went to the ND game this season. And then until I went to the Utah game. And then Minnesota.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:04 AM ^
I guess they had to forfeit 2010 then?
When I looked at their record, it has an asterisk and they were 0-
My fault (see MileHigh...I'm more than willing to admit when I'm wrong).
But you're right, they were still bad...and even if they were good, that's one game in 3 years.
BTW, maybe you're the problem. I think we should fire YOU.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:08 AM ^
I think PSU had to forfeit a couple of seasons, though I'd have to look it up to verify how many. I do know that Paterno went from being the winningest coach to dropping below Bobby Bowden.
And yeah, I'm probably bad luck. I've been to at least one road game a season since 2007 and Michigan's record when I'm in attendance is not particularly sparkling.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:16 AM ^
2007: NW (W), MSU (W) = 2-0
2008: PSU (L), Purdue (L) = 0-2
2009: MSU (L), Illinois (L) = 0-2
2010: IU (W), PSU (L) = 1-1
2011: NW (W), MSU (L) = 1-1
2012: No road games attended = 0-0
2013: PSU (L), MSU (L) = 0-2
2014: ND (L) = 0-1
Total: 4-9
---------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, fire me.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:22 AM ^
Looks like 14 seasons worth of victories were stripped from Paterno's record. I was way off. Also, Bowden is not the winningest D1 coach. I fail.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:01 AM ^
In 2008 we broke 30 points once after Oct. 1
42-48 loss @ Purdue
In 2009 we broke 30 points twice after Oct. 1
The Delaware St. Massacre...and a 36-38 loss to Purdue at home.
...so 2 losses to Purdue, one loss to PSU their first year under NCAA hell, and one win @ Illinois in 3OTs.
That's not a lot of offensive fire power. It wasn't just our defense that was bad. Our offense really wasn't that good either (after Oct. 1).
Those last 2 Rich Rod Septemeber's were pretty awesome though. And that's what most of us remember. Myself included. I was shocked by these stats.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:09 AM ^
I do think that people are arguing that RichRod wasn't bad here. Michigan fans are now gloating on RichRod's behalf, saying he got screwed by Brandon.
Casteel wasn't coming to Michigan in 2011. It was too late by then. RichRod wasn't getting rid of Gibson either, as evidenced by the fact that he made him his DB coach at Arizona in 2012. He used his first mulligan to fire Shafer and then he used his second mulligan to fire Hopson. Michigan wasn't getting any better in 2011 with RichRod.
Failing to bring Casteel was a huge blunder in hindsight, but we don't know who is fully responsible for that without knowing how hard RichRod went to bat for him. We have six years of hindsight to see how good Casteel was but we didn't know it at the time. From the outside, it looks to me like RichRod thought that he could waltz into Ann Arbor and install the 3-3-5 with whomever he wanted. He was wrong. He had a second chance to go after Casteel, but he got the Stuffed Beaver instead. Bill Martin clearly fucked up, but RIchRod may have fucked up there too. He should have known that he didn't know jack shit about defense. He should have either negotiated that extra tad bit of money for Casteel or he should have let Scott Shafer pick the assistants the he wanted and run whatever defense he wanted.
I think that the past seven years have proven one big overriding lesson. You have to have a head coach and an athletic director who are very serious about winning. The head coach has to pick top notch assistants that complement his weaknesses and the athletic director has to make sure that this is going to happen when he hires him. The AD has to look for an elite head coach like his life depends on it and he has to hire the best guy for the job, with little consideration given to whether he is a "Michigan Man". He needs to get the new guy in place early so that he can shore up the first recruiting class. Both Bill Martin and Dave Brandon failed at some of these and failed badly.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:12 AM ^
2011 recruiting results
Brennan Beyer is a multiple season starter on defense.
Desmond Morgan finally got passed up by Hoke's recruits this season (See the lemon and his injury).
Blake Countess has been a multi year starter on defense.
Jack Miller is ahead of every single one of Hoke's vaunted OL recruits except Braden, Cole, Magnusson, and Glasgow.
Justice Hayes has competed well and is getting decent play time this season on 3rd down since Hoke's 4 and 5 star guys can't pass pro.
So that is 5/10 guys you listed that have made an impact on the program via playing time.
What is to say that if Brandon had stuck by RRod he wouldn't have finished up 2011 recruiting strong and gotten more OL. Plus if you give him the kind of money you gave Hoke to go hire a competent DC maybe the defense turns it around in 2011 regardless of who the head coach was.
Although in the words of our philosopher coach, "We shouldn't deal in hypothetics".
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:11 AM ^
It sucks.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:23 AM ^
It is true that one game will never be "proof" that someone or a team is or isn't. But heck, let's give Arizona their due here. Saying Oregon had a ravaged OL means nothing to me. Having depth is part of being a good football team, because every team occurs injuries during the course of the season. I would also say that Oregon's speed based offense overmatched MSU size and strength based B1G defense (which is a fallacy in itself because Narduzzi does what he does based on speed & agressiveness), so the argument regarding "fit" is not accurate.
October 3rd, 2014 at 9:25 AM ^
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October 3rd, 2014 at 9:39 AM ^
fail
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:02 AM ^
45-42 and 10-7 are the same thing. A 3 point win.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:15 AM ^
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:20 AM ^
He recruited zero Olinemen. Like actually.
I know! Guys like Lewan, Schofield, and Omameh (all now in the NFL, like, actually) simply grew out of the ground at Michigan Stadium!
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:25 AM ^
Don't forget David Molk, newly-minted starting center for the Eagles.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:48 AM ^
It was nice of Rodriguez to recruit Molk to Michigan in 2007 while still the coach at WVU.
October 3rd, 2014 at 11:02 AM ^
Damn, you're right. As I was typing that response I felt like it was odd that the previous person didn't mention Molk in their reply. And obviously this is because he was recruited by Carr.
My apologies.
October 3rd, 2014 at 10:18 AM ^
Besides the X's and O's mentioned in this thread so far, I believe three additional items make his situtation and success much different then his time at Michigan.
1. His base of recruiting is MUCH different at 'Zona compared to Mich. He is able to recruit California much more effectively now compared to his time here. State of Cali (and I guess Arizona) has a larger pool of "college-ready" players compared to the state of Michigan. The distance makes it easier for players to choose Arizona over Michigan.
2. The academic standards are much more relaxed at 'Zona making it possible for him to recruit players that otherwise may not have been eligible for admission at Mich, espicially inallowing JUCO players to be signed.
3. RR is able to recruit and sign JUCO players. This is can be considered as part of item number 2 but JUCO players are ususally much more physically developed and tend to be more mature.