The nutty Michigan coverage isn't so much about Harbaugh as it is a signal to the Big Ten that Fox wants to party.
Fans didn't do RR in
he has an accent?
I will put your children through college.
The media didn't do Richrod in either.
Chizik would still be hated had they not gone out and bought a new QB.
he wasnt purchased, ok?
it was a tax-deductible deduction to the good reverend's church. check your facts, man.
on the coaching changes being discussed for the past month and I have tried to avoid it. I took great pride in being a Michigan fan but I have never been more disappointed or discouraged to be one for the last month. This has nothing to do with the way we played but has everything to do with the fan base's action toward RR. I used to be able to brag that Michigan fans are different from the SEC fans that I am surrounded by, but this last month has shown quite the opposite. I am also very disappointed in the way DB has handled this as well. What is the purpose of leaving the coaching staff, players, recruits and fans in limbo for so long? How can anyone get mentally prepared for a bowl game with all of these supposed changes going on? It just disgusts me that so many people want to whine about RR when he (and those players) are giving there all out there. I will always love Michigan with all of my heart but my opinion has changed dramatically of the fan base from the pure ignorance of it all.
I always thought that Michigan fans were somehow different than the rest of CFB. Obviously I was wrong. Right now I would say that the fan base that Michigan reminds me of most is Notre Dame, and given how much I hate that school, kills me to say.
is a concern of mine with Harbaugh being hired possibly is part of me thinks we need to get the hell away from the old Michigan. It has failed miserably in the past 5 years and we might be better off with someone else and let RR be the sacrificial lamb that got us through the transition. Or just keep RR.....
Michigan has about half a million living alumni. Michigan graduates about 7000 students (undergrad) each year. It is not possible to "get the hell away from the old Michigan."
I may be arguing against a straw man, but I took the comment about getting away from the "old Michigan" as a criticism of the "blue hair" alumni who don't understand or appreciate RR's offensive philosophy vis-a-vis the Big 10.
to a girl meeting a guy...at a bar and thinking it will be different from the last guy she met...at a bar
"But, I thought you were different!"
Obviously the point is missed. Fans can be displeased all they want. However, whining for over a fucking month? It has been a constant rant over and over and over again. You have to be kidding me. These kids and our coach deserved a hell of a lot more than what the fan base gave them over the past 4 weeks (or 3 years even). That was the point.
Are you suggesting that poor treatment from fans is the cause of the poor preparation for this bowl game?
I don't know if I should be a douche or just answer the question. I think I will just leave you to wonder.
You misunderstand my intent, and I may have misread your post. You said,
How can anyone get mentally prepared for a bowl game with all of these supposed changes going on?
in conjunction with,
These kids and our coach deserved a hell of a lot more than what the fan base gave them over the past 4 weeks
and I interpreted it to mean you thought the apparent lack of progress for today's game was somehow related to the fans' behavior towards the team. I don't believe that's a valid criticism of the fans regardless of their behavior.
However, re-reading your post, it sounds like you blame DB's lack of support for RR for causing the staff and players not to be "mentally prepared for a bowl game" today. I'm not sure I think that's any more valid, but I understand if you are blaming DB rather than the fans.
Hope this makes sense. Correct me if I'm wrong.
That was my intent. I was blaming DB for his "timeline". He should have already made a decision. I don''t think that this is to blame for the loss, but the "mental" part of the game has a lot to do with the way it is played and/or coached. I would like to know how if it would have turned out if DB's decision had already been made. Again, I don't blame this loss on that but all the controversy going on certainly did not help things. Sometimes a coach "coaching" to save his job or players playing for his coach to keep his job can both have some very negative or positive effects. The fans had nothing to do with the loss. I was mainly pissed because of the constant whining about RR. None of us control this issue so I was aggravated that it has been beat into the ground constantly for this long when we could have concentrated on these kids playing their hearts out.
Good point about support. If you don't have it, it's harder to succeed. I think you made a very valid argument that I agree with. I have one question for you about next year though. Unless DB gives RR an extension, RR and the players will go through the same environment next year. Do you really think they can be much better. The pressure will be just as bad if not worst than the last month. My biggest worry is that DB gives RR another year and the lack of support or extension give us another year like this year. I don't see DB giving him an extension. As much as I like RR and still think he is a good coach, I have become indifferent about him being here. I think we will win with him or someone else.
I am not sure if the fans and media did in RR, but it certainly didn't help with all of the BS from day 1.
Now I know that some of you put Flick up to this, but he has refused to say who. But those who did it know their blame, and I'm sure that the guilt you must feel would be far worse than any punishment you might receive. Now, don't you feel terrible?
"Adults loved to say things like that but kids knew better. We knew darn well it was always better not to get caught."
All that to say is I put you in Mrs. Shields category and the folks wringing their hands about this and not giving two flips what your opinion is as Ralphie.
With all due respect, fans are fans. Short for fanatics. Zealots. No one that has had an opinion about this stuff really cares what others think about them. I respect your passion for the Blue.
I didn't think it was possible, but over this season we as a fanbase, have proven to be worse than ND. It's sad.
BS. Let's put this "we are turning into the ND fanbase" line to rest. ND fans complained when their coaches were dragging the program into mediocrity. None of those coaches were ever under 500 at any point in their careers!
RR has gone 15-22 and currently has us in the Big 10 basement... and posters here sound absolutely heartbroken that he might get canned. The ND fanbase would have abandoned him completely 2 seasons ago. Get a grip.
When RR is fired sometime this week, he will have earned $10 million for 37 months of employment.
You mean that RR will have received $10 million.
inventing this "True Believer" meme for the sake of an argument. I don't think you're going to find a single fan who thinks Greg Robinson was a good hire or a fan who thinks RR has met expectations. But to me, it simply seems short sighted to write off all the adversity RR has had to deal with as being trivial.
You are both wrong and miss the point in the same thread. Impressive!
First, the comparison to Auburn is completely misplaced. For one, Cam Newton would never, ever have attended Michigan. Even if he wanted to enroll, he would have been denied admission. So to claim that Auburn is a good example of how things should have happened with Rodriguez and Michigan if Rodriguez was good is plain silly. Without Newton, Auburn is merely above average at best.
Second, the point people were making in wishing fans would chill the f- out was that the bad publicity is/was affecting recruiting. And you are sorely mistaken if you claim that is not the case. Kids coming out of high school are either sold on a school as they grew up or are sold on it by a coach(es). For the latter, those kids are not going to pick a school where there is a possibility that the person(s) that they grew close to and fond of is being burned by the supposed fan base. This was the fear of people like myself in reading all of these "CC" threads. (Personally, I don't think most of the posters have thought about the real ramifications of firing Rodriguez and bringing in someone who will run a different style of offense on the next few years and that, in and of itself, has been extremely frustrating.)
A coach with a proven track record of success at multiple stops came here, got handed a bad football team and a roster with well-documented gaping holes in it, made the team better two seasons in a row, has the team poised for continued improvement with nearly his entire roster returning next season, and people want him fired while members of his first full recruiting class are still redshirt freshmen.
Yes, fans who think Rich Rodriguez showed up and broke the Michigan football program are the fucking problem.
We've improved by two wins each of the last two seasons. If you think the team is a train wreck now, what do you think they were when they went 3-9 or were getting blown out by worse versions of teams like Illinois and Notre Dame that we beat this season?
If this guy is such a shitty coach, why does the team keep getting better every year?
Your mistake is that you think the team has gotten better. The team is actually worse than it was last year. The record is a bit better because we squeaked past Illinois and purdue. In the games that really matter, against rivals and good teams, this year we fared far worse than we did last year. We were thrashed. The gap widened. It doesn't matter how many crap teams you beat. You're judged bases on how you measure up to quality teams. It's not even close. Accept reality.
we lost to Illnois last year by a lot. We were blown out. By Illinois, who was much worse last year than this year.
3 < 5 < 7
I'm not the one arguing against it just because I'm mad the U-M football team isn't as good as I would like it to be right now.
3, 5, 7 = all less than 9-4 the year before RR arrived. We've only improved relative to 2008 after RR nuked a successful program.
RR didn't nuke shit. Look at the players he was left with. He inherited a bad team, period. He has steadily improved this team and in my opinion did one of the better coaching jobs you will see when starting as many freshman and sophomores as he did.
I want Rodriguez fired, but the argument that this team is worse than last year's team is terrible. We won 7 games this year and made a bowl. We did this by beating two teams we lost to last year. We also beat a good Connecticut team and a good Notre Dame team. Yes, we were beaten up by MSU and OSU and that sucks, but MSU is a hell of a lot better this year than they were last year and we played OSU on the road this year.
See also: Iowa, Wisconsin, Mississippi State.
Your claim is that we are equal to or worse than we were last year because we lost to some teams by a greater margin than we did last year. This is not much evidence to overcome the fact that Michigan has a better record against a schedule that is at least as good as last year's and that pretty much every statistical ranking system for overall team performance has us higher than last year. Yes, the net improvement was modest considering that the progression on the offensive side of the ball is coupled by the regression of the defense and special teams, but it is improvement nonetheless.
for example, he didn't improve the team 2 seasons in a row - believe our 2009 b10 record was worse than our 2008 record. you probably just don't have a lot of life experience. RR may have been successful at other stops, but that's not a guarantee of success at Michigan. Maybe it was the Peter Principle, maybe UM is a bad fit for RR's spread. I guarantee you it sure as hell wasn't the fans. RR needs to man up and take responsibility. As Bill Parcell's said, "You are what your record says you are." Let's cut the bullshit!
Having one healthy upperclassmen in the secondary makes it tough to field a good defense? Maybe having one first day NFL draft pick over a three year period means your team isn't as talented as the ones you are playing against?
There are two possibilities: Rodriguez has screwed up while coaching Michigan, or he walked into a shitty situation and has had to battle against that.
All the facts (prior resume, lack of draft picks, holes in the depth chart so wide that freshmen from the general student body can walk right into the starting lineup, better record each season as more Rodriguez recruits come on board, etc.) all point to the latter. The only one that doesn't is: "This is Michigan and I'm mad we lost."
The Parcells comment is nothing but a bullshit platitude. Do you really think the difference between our offense in 2008 and our offense this year is simply better coaching?
this year than in 2008 is a little better oline play and a sophomore dual threat QB. better comparison is between '09 and '10. IMO team didn't really improve a great deal. We shot it out w/ Indiana both years. LMAO Two wins had nothing to do w/ RR's coaching. Bullshit platitude? RR is what his record is, 14-22, at UM. Not f&*ing good enough.
Stay classy friend, stay classy.
So his record isn't what it said he was at West Virginia. When RR has players, he wins. When he has to start freshman and sophomores throughout the roster he loses. As would every other coach in the NCAA. It's all about the players.
won the Big East this year (and we beat them 30-10). Job's a lot harder in the B10.
One third of the season doesn't count because it doesn't suit the argument you want to make that Rodriguez deserves to get fired? Winning close games doesn't count as improvement (even if crappier versions of the same team blew us out two years in a row) unless the name of the team is impressive to you?
No one is happy that we haven't won more. But ignoring progress and diminishing the hole we were working out of simply because you wish we were better means you are being intentionally obtuse.
weak non conf teams (which ND won't be) and the B10 bottom feeders, the false improvement you claim will disappear and our ceiling will become apparent. we can't seem to beat good teams.
Rich Rodriguez could not have succeeded here. In fact, no coach could have succeeded here. No coach has ever been handed a unit with some gaping holes in it and turned it around by developing the talent he inherited and recruiting new talent to fill in the holes, such that it developed into a strong unit in his third year...
Actually, Rodriguez did exactly that with the offense. He started off with depth issues at virtually every position. But he turned it around quickly. We now are strong at virtually every position, with the possible exception of RB. It is an elite offense. On the other hand, the defense has deteriorated rapidly. Very rapidly. This is on Rodriguez. He failed to recruit well, develop talent, and keep his own recruits around at key positions. He also failed to implement a coherent and successful defensive scheme. He's gone through two failures at DC. He has demonstrated no ability to field anything resembling a decent defense since parting ways with Casteel. And as such, we just fielded perhaps the worst defense in school history, which meanth that whenever we played a team that could slow us down a little on offense, we've lost. I fail to see how anyone can absolve Rodriguez of responsibility for this.
Recruiting (in only two full classes):
D-Line: Two year starter and 4-star recruit Craig Roh, Ohio all-star game MVP Jibreel Black who contributed some as a true freshman, 4-star Quinton Washington, 4-star Richard Ash, signed 5-star Will Campbell but moved him to offense, 4-star Ken Wilkins, signed 4-star Lalota who transferred out, has a commitment from 4-star Brennen Beyer, plus a number of 3-star guys too numerous to mention
Linebacker: Not quite as star-studded, but signed 4-star Cam Gordon (team's 4th leading tackler and tied for team lead in interceptions as a RS Freshman), Bell, Hawthorne, Mike Jones (WHO?), Jake Ryan, Josh Furman, and has verbal commitments this year from Jones and Morgan with good potential to land Frost as well.
Defensive back: True freshman starter Courtney Avery, 4-star Cullen Christian, 4-star Marvin Robinson, freshman contributors/starters Vinopal, Johnson and Gordon, other assorted lesser rated recruits, has commitments from 4-star Blake Countess and three other promising DB's, signed Witty, Turner, Emilien and Dorsey (all but Witty highly rated) but things didn't work out with admissions, injury, or attitude.
I think he is recruiting just fine.
Development: Jonas Mouton made second team all conference as a senior. Brandon Graham made all-American as a senior and first round draft pick. Turned YAM into NFL draft pick Ryan Mundy. Turned much maligned Stevie Brown into NFL draft pick. Turned random LSA student Jordan Kovacs into the team's leader in solo tackles and TFL's as a sophomore.
Other than Obi Ezeh, I can't think of another player who failed to develop into a quality contributor by his senior season or at least reach his full potential (in the case of default starters like Banks and Rogers), and it is possible (IMHO) that Obi Ezeh just isn't that good a football player (as evidenced by his benching as a senior and attempted benching in favor of a freshman or a walk-on as a junior and his meh recruiting ranking).
If you can still look at the lack of talent in the junior/senior class on the defensive side of the ball and conclude that Rodriguez's coaching performance is the problem, so be it, but hopefully this demonstrates that I am sure as shit not putting my head in the sand but rather have actually evaluated the things he is capable of controlling.
to seeing what DB does. If he's as high on RR as you are, I'll support him. If not, I'll support the new coach.
If he's as high on RR as you are, I'll support him.
Ok, so if RR stays and goes 10-3 next season does that mean all your other posts arguing against him were wrong? You're confusing.
with DB's acumen and sources that he's better able to make an informed opinion than I am. Regardless of my personal opinion, if he thinks UM is better off w/ RR or somehow worse off if we let RR go, that's good enough for me. I beleive DB, as AD and former UM player, has UM's best interests at heart.
And do you honestly think that this team can make the leap to 10-3 next year? I would expect continued improvement or consistency on the O side of the ball, but imagine the D and ST will stay about the same.
It's tough to say what the D and ST will be if RR is retained. Especially if a new staff on D is brought in. Some teams are like night and day from one season to the next. I'm so emotionally drained from these last 3 years that it's like I don't care to try to predict what things will be, especially when there's so many uncertainties at this point.
If you put a gun to my head, I would say it's not out of the realm of possibilities to be 10-3 next year just because with college teams, especially ours being so young on both sides of the ball, though especially on D, and level of offense we'd have, there can be so much variance on level of play; case and point Sparty (though highly overrated IMO) and for most of the season Illinois' D.
I'm sure there are other better examples but those are just two that came off the top of my head and I'm pretty tired so my brain isn't functioning at optimal levels. I'm pretty sure RR is gone though so whatever, I'm just rambling at this point.
and Happy New Year. I hope we are good next year. I'm also drained after the past 3 years.