A Fairly Simple Calculus
Over the next few days, all of us will struggle to boil this latest debacle down to the essential questions. Mine comes down to this: is the talent being coached? Is it reaching its potential? If our squads match everyone in the B1G's for talent, why aren't we winning?
It is easy to say, in the wake of such losses--humiliation piling on humiliation--that it is not the coach's fault if the players do not perform. I would beg to differ. At some point, in deciding whether to cut our losses with Hoke, we have to ask: if our recruiting is strong is that translating to success on the field?
AT SOME POINT YOU HAVE TO LAY THE BLAME FOR POOR PERFORMANCE ON COACHING, stop blaming the kids.
Hoke isn't going anywhere at the moment. But this is a low-water mark, another in a lengthening list of them. And our record has worsened over three seasons as we moved from RichRod's much-maligned players to Hoke's.
If Hoke is an inspiring figure, a leader, we are either going to see it over the rest of the season. THE TIME IS NOT NEXT YEAR BUT NOW. I don't see how, by any rational calculus, he has more time than that.
September 7th, 2014 at 10:59 AM ^
calculus is never simple.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:07 AM ^
I think we should simplify things and start with an abacus.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:00 AM ^
From #GameDayMorning: #49ers sources believe coach Jim Harbaugh is already losing the locker room Veterans wonder: Is he really all in?
— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet) September 7, 2014
September 7th, 2014 at 11:15 AM ^
I know that it's never going to happen., Even if he left San Francisco, Brandon is way too prideful to ever hire him. But I will cling to the possibility like a shipwreck victim to a life raft in the middle of the ocean.
September 7th, 2014 at 12:02 PM ^
I'm not sure Brandon is the prideful one in this situation
September 7th, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^
If Hoke leaves maybe Brandon goes too.
September 7th, 2014 at 3:45 PM ^
Why do we all assume it would be Brandon's decision to make? And I might be more fearful of how we might screw up an AD hire than I am of coaching one.
EDIT: Didn't see the reference directly above mine...
September 7th, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^
Don't get too excited. He'd be coaching the Cowboys next year.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^
Someone start whispering to Jerry Jones about how Sumlin is the perfect candidate for the Cowboys, keeping Harbaugh away from them and keeping the .00000000001% chance Harbaugh ever coachs Michigan alive.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:21 AM ^
Please, please, oh dear god please
September 7th, 2014 at 11:38 AM ^
This scenario is extremely unlikely to ever happen. Dave Brandon is too prideful to bring either of the previous top two options on board (Harbaugh or Miles). If Michigan wants to win and win now, I think the best case scenario that is realistic is Miles.
The only reason I [continue to] say this is because the guy can coach teams... I get yes had issues clock managing... But look at his two main stops:
Oklahoma State: took that program and made them relevant again. His OC (Gundy) is still the HC there and continually produces ranked teams...
LSU: he competes in the best Division of college football today. He keeps up with Alabama and Texas A&M... What was the stat they shared during the Wisconsin game? Something like 40 out of conference wins (excluding bowls)..? Idk how factual that last sentence is bc I'm not really into in checking that out on a mobile device.
With all this said, I know people on this board hate him and his 'integrity' issues, which I'm not 100% on bc I think I was 5 or 6 years old when that happened and I don't know all the facts.
Miles is my guy though. (Since Harbaugh is unrealistic)
September 7th, 2014 at 1:45 PM ^
Miles turns 61 later this year. He probably was the best guy to hire in 2007, but that ship has now sailed.
September 7th, 2014 at 12:04 PM ^
doesn't belong there. He knows it himself. He is a good coach there but he would be alot happier if he took the Michigan job if Hoke was let go. How could you not. Less stress with younger players and many people want to see you there. Harbaugh is tough like Bo and he has the swag.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:02 AM ^
Calculus is what kept me from wanting to become an architect.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:13 AM ^
You and Art Vandelay.
Great comment, Wendyk5!
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September 7th, 2014 at 11:31 AM ^
My favorite architect was Flavin.
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September 7th, 2014 at 11:04 AM ^
Michigan has none. They are a leaderless group. Leadership has to come from the players, but we have very little evident by the decision to name captains at the end of the season. It also wouldn't hurt to see some people getting in each other's faces about blown assignments. I'm not sure the coaches challenge the players in this way either.....Hoke seems to want to clap, and give everyone a hug and a participation trophy.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:08 AM ^
I propose that by the 50th post with just some dude standing up on his soapbox spewing the same exact stuff that's in the pages and pages of threads already on here, that OP has all his points docked. All in favor, say aye. I was at least hoping there'd be some interesting math in this one.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^
Zero wins on the road with any rival.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:08 AM ^
The best thing about mgoblog is that I can pretend I'm doing something to help the team and feel like someone's listening. It must have been hell in the old days for mgowives and mgosignificantothers to listen to us prattle on about what needed to be done after losses.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
True, but in the old days the prattling would've only been a few times a year.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:10 AM ^
Hoke needs to go. If you believe that a guy like Saban, Les Miles, Harbaugh, etc...would have a better product on the field at this point, then the answer is simple.
September 7th, 2014 at 12:14 PM ^
If Texas couldn't buy Saban away from Alabama, he's not coming to Michigan.
We've seen how Miles plays every coaching search into a pay raise at LSU.
As other posters have stated, they'll believe Harbaugh leaves the NFL when they see it.
So, where does that leave Michigan? For a lot of reasons, it's extremely rare to see coaching changes mid-season. So unless Hoke loses the team, assume he's the coach for the rest of the season.
But that doesn't mean that DB isn't putting together a list of short list of head coach candidates. One advantage Michigan has this time is a balanced, talented roster, albeit a young one. So it's probably folly to hire the latest offensive guru whose claim to fame is a sytem that isn't compatible with the current players.So who out there is (a) looking to move up and runs a system that fits with Michgian's players or (b) would be willing to lateral and runs a system that fits with Michigan's players? And (c), Michigan Man or not, is a good fit with the Michigan/Big 10 culture?
September 7th, 2014 at 10:23 PM ^
I wasn't saying Michigan should hire Saban or Miles. I was saying that if we believed that those guys would have the team playing significantly better than it is, then Hoke is the wrong man for the job. Excellence is the standard and always will be.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:11 AM ^
Hire Beilein.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
but it's probably not as dumb as it sounds.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:15 AM ^
Darryl Rogers put it best.
Brady Hoke lost me last night. I'm done defending the guy. His ineptitude at winning road games--now even simply being competitive--is as bad as GERG's defenses. The bowl game in which the team quit was an alarming development. This is a full fledged forest fire.(unintended alliteration alert)
Under Bo Michigan was always storng on the offensive and defensive lines. Always. But not since Carr has Michigan had a defensive line that can penetrate and disrupt. Not since Hoke's first year has Michigan had a line capable of doing a more than adequate job. Simply put, Brady Hoke has failed to accomplish what he was brought in to do--make Michigan a physical team with strong play on the defensive and offensive lines.
People will say stop referencing Bo and I would respond with this: Why? Save for the offensive system what Bo preached and developed are timeless. Strong offensive line play, fundamentally sound and tough defense, a consistent ferocity in play, and high quality leadership.
The problem with Michigan football is not rigid adherence to the past, but a failure to heed the basic lessons of how to construct a winning football team. Bo's success came not in his specific systems, but HOW he coached his team. A lot of coaches have "schematic advantages", but few are capable of getting their team to translate them onto the football field.It's not Bo's schemes we need to re-learn, but the team and individual qualities that made Bo the great coach he was.
31-0.There's nothing to say as the score already says it. It's time for a change. If that means UM loses half of it's recruiting class so be it. Brady Hoke must go.The calculus really is simple.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:17 AM ^
Why write this here when you could make it your own post?
September 7th, 2014 at 11:18 AM ^
I agree with all of this. Well said sir.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:42 AM ^
If I could up vote you I would
September 7th, 2014 at 11:45 AM ^
Completely agree. Everyone gets caught up in recruiting, schemes, etc...yet fundamentals, effort, and attitude can take even mediocre talent a long ways. We seem to have the opposite.
September 7th, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^
I just want to point out that part of the problem is Michigan Nation itself insisting on Big Ten style football when that way of playing is on life support.
Last night was not just a statement on the poor state of Michigan football, but of the entire Big Ten.
Who wants to dominate in Big Ten conventional football when, frankly, it stinks?
This isn't really about RR. But during RR's tenure, we were pressuring Michigan to go back to pro-style and away from spread when we simply should have been pressuring Michigan to simply get better.
This Michigan Man nonsense has only gotten us incompetent AND inbred.
The only Michigan value worthwhile is Honest And Frequent Winning. Everything else is horsecrap.
Uniformz? Who cares if it helps recruiting.
Michigan roots? Irrelevant. Absolutely irrelevant. Win here and any coach will GET some damned roots.
Pro-Style vs Spread? Whatever wins. And if the B1G ISN'T doing it, given its incompetence, that's probably a GOOD sign.
If the Notre Dame blowout has a silver lining, it is that hopefully it knocks us out of this arrogance that causes us to prioritize dumb, dumb, dumb, things at the expense of football record.
We wanted a loveable-looking Michigan cheerleader that still thinks all successful football philiosophy comes from Bo even though it's 2014. And we got him.
A big part of the problem is us.
September 7th, 2014 at 7:55 PM ^
At it's best "big ten football" was playing fundamentally sound and physically rugged defense with a disciplined offense controlling the clock. The first is a requirement for success at all levels of football. Frankly, that isn't so much "big ten football" as it is winning football. It's the type that Bama plays in college and Seattle plays in the NFL.
Seattle uses both power and spread. So do many teams. It's not about a system so much as plays and packages that work. The best offenses are those that blend spread and power I principles.
You also missed my point about Bo. It's not about the schemes, but about the construction and sustaining of a team. It's about the psychology of a collection of human beings assembled from a wdie variety of backgrounds for a common goal. It's about making them into a force that acts collectively and effectively for that goal. It's about making them believe that the desires of the me are inferior to the needs of the we. That is what I meant about Bo.
That is the point you have missed.Bo is not and never will be a "problem".Incompetence which comes in all forms. One can innovative and incompetent or they can be stuck in the past and incompetent. You confuse the two. Simply being "innovative" or willing to embrace new ideas does not guarantee success.
If you look at the best teams today they are doing what the best teams have always done--tackle and block well, possess great team chemistry, and are judiciously audacious. That is what makes a good football team.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:16 AM ^
Hoke has two years left on his deal so this was always the make it or break it year for him. With his dodgy finishes it would be hard to extend him without a great season this year. And having a lame duck coach next season would kill recruiting. IMO, Michigan needs to run the table vs non rivals and beat either MSU or OSU to warrant keeping Hoke.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:43 AM ^
If we're not competitive with MSU again this year, I don't think I can advocate another year for Hoke. We need to beat the easy teams, handle a down OSU team, and at least keep it close against state.
September 7th, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^
I agree. Good things have to start happening against MSU and OSU.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:50 AM ^
Fortunately for him he has schedule of patsies ahead of him until he gets to MSU. After that game more patsies. He will survive though he doesn't deserve to. As long as he is running the program, it will be domed to medicority beating bad teams and losing to teams that are fairly good.
I would add that GM time is up as well. He has done many years of exemplary coaching but with age the mind becomes less acute.
September 7th, 2014 at 12:04 PM ^
I don't think he can go into next year without a contract extension. For as bad as the program has been lately you can't have a lame duck head coach.
As for Mattison, if things are bad enough that you need to switch coordinators again then they are bad enough that you have to dump Hoke too. Because at that point it's not the coordinators that's the problem it's the head coach.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:17 AM ^
Needs to be shown the door just as quickly if not quicker than Brady Hoke! He is the one calling all of the shots. He is the one that raised all the ticket prices and the prices of everything else before he put a winning product on the field. You just don't do that crap! Do you think if dominos raised its pizzas to $25 each tomorrow without improving its product they would have any business left? Of course not! DB thinks he is the smartest person in the room... to bad he's the only one in it!
September 7th, 2014 at 11:47 AM ^
(but in reality, I just want to see Hoke succeed).
September 7th, 2014 at 11:18 AM ^
Clapping is not coaching.
"Touching these kids" is not coaching.
Doing nothing to prevent 30 year old records from breaking is not coaching.
We need a coach.
September 7th, 2014 at 12:04 PM ^
Is the highest paid cheerleader.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:22 AM ^
I'm glad that everytime somone has another thought on this game that they make it into a thread instead of just putting it into one of the 20 that have been created in the 12 hours
September 7th, 2014 at 11:26 AM ^
Anybody who is reading your comment probably isn't making a thread.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:32 AM ^
More threads mean more MGoPoints for everyone.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:23 AM ^
So over 4 years have passed since Brady was hired
and nothing has changed.
thats probably the most depressing thing ever.
September 7th, 2014 at 12:06 PM ^
What's depressing is that seasons that used to qualify as a let down (9-3 or 10-2) would be seen as a really successful season now.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:25 AM ^
is a slight improvement in the OL, but they're still not very good. Slight improvement in the RBs, but they're still not very good. Slight improvement in the DL but they're still not very good, plus guys were hurt. The WRs are solid but Gardner is still suffering ptsd and needs more time then the OL can give. The RBs don't pick up blitzes well. Jake Ryan MUST get back outside, especially with Morgan out. The DBs can't find the space in between giving a 10 yard cushion and laying all over the guy...There's just so much to work on here. This is an insanely talented, yet bad, bad football team. I won't put it all on coaching, but what the hell else is going on?
September 7th, 2014 at 11:41 AM ^
An alarming number of things point to coaching though. Just one: the free releases inside on man-to-man coverage. Especially on 3rd and 6 or less. You simply can't let the guy fake step outside, follow him, let him cut back inside you and allow the QB/WR execute a simple pass/catch. It seems like everyone should know this. I knew this in high school football.
Yet last night I was yelling COVER THE SLANT over and over. Sad enough that I was repeating that last night; much sadder is that it seems I've been yelling that for years.
September 7th, 2014 at 11:59 AM ^
always taught us that the sideline was an extra defender that was your friend. Since I played man I was also taught not to let the guy I was covering inside of me as it gave him more options. Either our DBs don't understand that or they aren't being coached to the point. It is also hard to play press coverage when you whiff on the initial jam.