Fair and balanced complaining about the coaching

Submitted by UMdad on

I am not advocating firing RR (yet), and I am not yelling that the sky is falling in.  However, everyone that puts their fingers in their ears and yells, "the team is young, we are improving, I WILL ACCEPT NO CTITICISM OF RR!" is not paying attention.  I am really getting frustrated by some of the decisions RR and his staff have been making.  We are starting young players, so I can accept that they will have growing pain mistakes, but this is not RR or GERG's second year.  Denard Robinson is an elite talent running and throwing on fake run-then-pass plays, but is a mediocre (AT BEST) pocket passer.  the last two weeks he has asked Robinson to prove to everyone he can drop back and pass.  I also like Vincent Smith, but not running up the middle on a fourth and 1 like last week.  This week, he watches Hopkins have success up the middle, puts in Smith and runs the same play.  Smith gets crushed, fumbles, and the rest is history.  I am not blaming Robisnon or Smith, they are both talented guys doing their best.  I do blame RR for stubbornly putting them in positions to fail instead of playing guys to their strengths.  Add in the decision to punt last week, the fact that our guys apparently don't know that a blocked FG is live, his blowing of Gardner's redshirt to prove a point for two plays, his handling of press conferences and media in general, and the fact that other teams seem to regularly make better second half adjustments than us, and I am starting to feel like we have been outcoached more times than not,  If I turn on RR, it is going to be for his coaching mistakes, not for how many times he loses to MSU or OSU or anyone else for that matter.  If he is making poor coaching decisions now, how likely is that to change when the players are seniors, or will they just cover them up better?  

Black Socks

October 17th, 2010 at 12:41 PM ^

Lloyd was certainly a classy individual.  Michigan has always had intelligent players as well.  I have not seen that in the last three years.  It reflects so poorly on the program when our coach looks out of control and starts going off on everyone on the sideline.  I am not yet saying fire RR but when do we demand wins over decent Big 10 teams?

BNags

October 17th, 2010 at 9:50 AM ^

against one of the top defenses in the country.  Outgained Iowa by 100 yds in the second half with our back-up QB.  Yet you claim RR is getting 'out-coached'?  Having two kick-offs go out of bounds is simply bad luck.  Refelcts nothing on the coaching.  The defense is still extremely young and still making mental mistakes.  This will improve and these games will turn into wins. 

Pea-Tear Gryphon

October 17th, 2010 at 10:08 AM ^

I agree with your points, save for one. I don't think kicking the ball out of bounds is "bad luck". It is poor execution from a walk-on kicker who should be sitting behind the scholarship kicker except the scholarship kicker can't win the job. I don't put much weight into stats, but they do help salve the soul after an ugly loss.

Beavis

October 17th, 2010 at 9:52 AM ^

Dude... the two threads before this address exactly what you are talking about.

Here's a quick summary of the past three threads, in case anyone cares to save themselves time and breath:

Yes, the problems from this team stem from not having enough bodies on defense.  However, RR and GERG should probaby have the team performing better than they are.  At some time someone has to take the blame for this.  If we continue to lose (and god forbid lose the remainder of our games), someone will likely have to fall on the sword.

End of story.

Papochronopolis

October 17th, 2010 at 10:25 AM ^

I agree that the coaching has left some things to be desired, but you go too far.  I still think that overall RR is a good decision maker.  Don't tell me that you make 100% correct decision bc nobody does.  The key is to make more good decisions than bad decisions and I think RR is far on the good decision side of things.

One thing I will say is that the special teams is atrocious and that is on RR.  It might be time to get a coach for that part of the game bc we wont be able to pull through in winnable upsets anytime soon when it cant make field goals and gives up 150 yards of field position.

StraightDave

October 17th, 2010 at 10:42 AM ^

This is year three under RR and the defense is getting worse.  I know the defense is young but this is the third year and all UM can come up with in the secondary is a bunch of receivers turned DB and a walk on.   UM could finish at the bottom of the Big Ten again if something doens't change.  I don't see much acccountability from the staff.  Why is the DB coach still with this team?   He has done nothing in three years.

AZBlue

October 17th, 2010 at 12:44 PM ^

Lets explore our potential 2010 CBs,, (my opinion of depth chart)

D. Warren #1 CB -- Whether or not he was "always a 3 and done CB" per the meme - he would have been by far the best CB on this team.  We think it was a mistake to go pro but you can't blame him for thinking prior to 2010 that even with him this team would not compete for a B10 title. (pre-Denardening obviously) - thus the incentive to "get paid" now versus another year of hard work, school etc on a potentially "OK" team.

Boo Boo #2 CB -- I am not sure if he truly would have been the #2 CB for anything but experience - but he would have been at least on par with Floyd IMO.  Shame to see how his life has spiralled down since he left UofM.  (Personally never liked his Miami-ish swagger on the field - even after plays he was beaten but the receiver dropped the ball)

T Woolfolk #3 CB -- ideally with enough depth he moves to take the C. Gordon spot - out with injury for the year,

JT Floyd #4 CB -- We "hated" him last year opposite Warren - (remember last year?)

#5 - #7 CB Take you pick D.Dorsey (worth taking a failed 'flyer' academically. ime), A. Witty (essentially a throw-in to secure Denard that turned out might actually be a good player - hasn't cracked the starting lineup at Cinci yet I don't think) J.T.Turner -( some kids just flame out at the next level - lack of discipline away from home, having to work very hard for the first time to compete for PT, or a failure by the coaches)

#8 James Rogers - Heck of a dedicated guy to this program - just ability challenged

#9 - #11 Insert other frosh CBs here.

I agree the secondary play has to improve for us to compete in the B10.  However if we had just 2 of the top 5 above playing this year things would be better.  If we have 2 PLUS T-Wolf moved to safety, we would be confined to bitching about linebacker play this year and MIGHT have 1 more win at this time.

Woodson2

October 17th, 2010 at 10:45 AM ^

I couldn't disagree more with the OP's argument(s). The coaches put players in the right position to succeed. We have young players who make mental mistakes. Do you not recognize that the team is young and thats why they continue to make mistakes? How is this putting our fingers in our ears and ignoring things? We are just realistic as to why this team is not all that great yet. Crazy fans like you who blame everything on the coaches are just expecting too much.

Why do you place the blame on the coaches? Your examples of coaching failures are really not coaching errors at all. Running Vincent Smith on a short yardage situation is an example of a coaching error in your mind? Hopkins had run several plays before that, perhaps he was tired on the third down. Vincent Smith has picked up a few first downs on short yardage plays. If you don't agree with it that's one thing but it's not an error.

Robinson had nearly 100 yards rushing in the first half, how is it that you are claiming Rich Rod tried to prove he could use him as a drop back passer? Iowa barely ever gives up 100 yards rushing in one game let alone one half. Maybe you weren't paying attention at all to what really was going on or maybe you are looking for reasons to complain about the coaches rather than look at the facts.

The man can coach, he has turned this into an offensive machine. We had 500 yards against one of the better defenses every year in the Big Ten. The reason we do well on offense is because we have more depth and experience. This is simply a fact. Why must it be on the coaches when young players commit turnovers or penalties. Young players do this consistently on any team with any coach. It just so happens we have more young players playing than most teams and errors are common when there is so few players with game experience.

I do not see teams making better second half adjustments than Rich Rod. Name some examples. Iowa did not outplay Michigan in the second half. Michigan easily won the second half of that football game and it wasn't even close really. A few missed tackles and turnovers caused the loss. I do not blame that on the coaches and no one who knows anything about football would. Coaches can teach them to make smart decisions but players have to step up and make smart decisions in the games. I see a very disciplined team on the field so I see blaming the coaches as lunacy.

If we had an undisciplined team then I could see why some people would start pointing to coaching but Rich Rod has consistently shown that the players respect his teaching and they play about as poised as you can expect for kids who have such little game experience. Did you expect Denard to just go through the entire year without turnovers? Most of the interceptions thrown were not being put in bad positions by the coaches. Robinson had two sure touchdowns against MSU that were set up by proper playcalling, he simply missed the throws. It's on the players, don't kid yourself!

umich1

October 17th, 2010 at 12:10 PM ^

Look - I support Rich Rodriguez, I support giving him his due time, and I cheered like hell yesterday in the stands to try give the defense all the help I could muster.

But "If we had an undisciplined team?"  Does Taylor Lewan ring a bell?  The guy jumped early multiple times, took a 15 yard penalty that killed our team's early momentum, and innocent or not - also took a 15 yard penalty at Indiana that almost cost us dearly.

I consider running off the field after a blocked field goal as Iowa is returning the ball down the sideline a heavy blend of 'undisciplined' and well, stupidity.

I consider unforced interceptions where Denard just throws up an airball undisciplined.

I consider biting time and time again on a simple counter run undisciplined.

There are many things that I can say that support Rodriguez.  We can discuss his ability to get playmakers in space.  We can discuss his ability to scheme around opposing defenders.  We can discuss how much he cares about the program, as I am convinced he does.  I love him and I think he can take us to new heights - but his teams have been undisciplined for three straight years.  Discipline is not something RichRod can hang his cap on.

Go Blue - and I didn't neg you.  I don't take offense to opposing opinions when they are supported with rationale.

Woodson2

October 17th, 2010 at 1:39 PM ^

Rich Rod flat out runs a disciplined team. Unfortunately for him that discipline will not pay off until the kids start maturing. Players need to grow through experience not just because a coach teaches them something correctly. Taylor Lewan is a redshirt freshman. Are you that surprised to see him making mental errors in the course of a game? I am not at all surprised. How can you blame a coach on the mental mistakes of redshirt freshman and sophomores. Denard Robinson and Taylor Lewan can't have Rodriguez come onto the field and help them make split second decisions. If you watch Rich Rod on the sidelines he gets VERY demonstrative on the sidelines when they make mental errors. Meaning he has gone over these types of things plenty in practice and yet young players still make mistakes. I'm sure the coaches are more frustrated than any of us could even imagine.

John Wooden could wake up in the prime of his career and lead these kids and they would still make mental errors. It's just how young players perform. Through experience comes more level headed decisions during game situations. I believe these kids are being taught correctly and thats all you can ask of a coaching staff. The problem is that you have to work with what you have. Rich Rod can't speed up time and turn these freshman and sophomores into juniors and seniors overnight.

The discipline instilled by Rodriguez and the staff is paying off. I've actually been pleasantly surprised with the lack of penalties this year considering the youth of the team.We are actually in the top 20 in fewest penalties in all of Division 1a football. That's pretty amazing to me considering the youth and I think that's a testament to what Rodriguez can do for a team even with as much youth as we have.

tpilews

October 17th, 2010 at 10:58 AM ^

I think the coaches continue to put players in position to succeed. However, I do blame RR for Tate's second INT. Late in the game, and Tate had just been sacked, and you're about to face a 3rd and 19. You have to call a timeout there and set up two plays. The 3rd down play needs to either make 4th down manageable or pick up the first down. At that point in the game, you have a true sophomore QB that is seeing action in his SECOND game. Call a timeout, stop the clock and make sure everyone is on the same page. That is my only gripe. I'd also like to say that I loved seeing Demens out there. Khoury also played a great game in a tough situation. The coaches prepared him well.

UMdad

October 17th, 2010 at 11:01 AM ^

This is exactly my point. There are a few honest arguments against my point and severeal idiots who just say,"you're whining, you're whining, RR is infallible and we will be top 25 next year!". What is the scoring differential in the second half of out losses in the last two years? That is where coaching adjustments come in. And yes, carr and bo could gét angry in press conferences. And they always seemed like they did exactly what they wanted to. RR never seems comfortable and confident in his reactions. It bothers me. Root for your team and your coach, I can respect that, but when someone brings up actual issues and you just dismiss it as idiots whining about things they don't understand it makes you a jackass.

Tater

October 17th, 2010 at 11:16 AM ^

I have opinions on what should be done at Michigan; everybody does.  Right now, I think Forcier and Denard should both play in every game.  Others think RR should do this, that, etc.  But the major difference between my opinion and those who whine is that I am not under the illusion that I could walk into the Big House and coach that football team.

From the tone of so many of the anti-RR whiners over the last few years, it's as if many of them seem to think they could do a better job than RR, just by fixing some "obvious" problems.  Sadly, it doesn't work that way.  When you get a coach, you get his entire philosophy.  In other words, you have to be "all in,"

It's easy to say, "well, Saban does this," or "Urban Meyer does that," or " why can't they run trick plays like Chris Peterson," or "why can't they coach defense like [fill in the blank], but nobody does all of those things.  Everyone has their own system, and all systems have their flaws. 

I think it's great that we all have our opinions.  I also think that we, and I am not excluding myself from the word, can take our own opinions a little too seriously sometimes. 

There is a lot of season left.  I am guessing that my distaste for Sparty caused me to underrate MSU a bit.  Iowa was projected to be a top ten team by many, also.  I see no shame in losing to either team, and think that PSU, Illinois, and Purdue are a definite level below those teams.  I still think beating all three is possible.   

So, I'm not giving up on this season yet.  And don't expect me to visit any "fire RR" websites anytime in the next two years.

clarkiefromcanada

October 17th, 2010 at 12:18 PM ^

OP, you state: the last two weeks he has asked Robinson to prove to everyone he can drop back and pass.  

This analysis is beyond ridiculous. Perhaps the nature of the defensive fronts/coverages of the Little Brother and Iowa have had something to do with Denard's reads. But no, apparently RichRod has asked him to prove to everyone he can drop back and pass?

Njia

October 17th, 2010 at 12:34 PM ^

But it bears repeating: this team is snakebit. Look at the yards gained. We shredded what is arguably the best D is the B10. BUT, every time we got into scoring position, like last week, we turned the ball over, or were penalized on a key down and stopped the drive. Sure, I agree that some of the coaches' calls were maddening, such as the decision to punt right before the half, but if the team was looking like they wouldn't get it done on 4th down, the wiser choice was to get off the field and into the locker room. Sometimes, you just need to re-group. Yesterday, U-M couldn't buy a break. It's been that way for two weeks. Hopefully, their luck will turn around. The bye week is welcome.

Merz33

October 17th, 2010 at 5:09 PM ^

I couldn't believe the number of people complaining about him punting before the half on fourth and four. It was the right call. If they are stopped, Iowa would of had the ball at the 50 yard line with 45 seconds and a chance to go up 28-7. Imagine the whining if that would have happened. 

2014

October 17th, 2010 at 12:20 PM ^

it's pretty clear you've already made up your mind about RR, which is fine, you're entitled. But it's pretty disengenuous to claim otherwise.

UMdad

October 17th, 2010 at 12:37 PM ^

Not true. As of now I don't want to see him fired. I just think he has not been doing a great job and I would like to see him get his shit together. And I am not claiming to be able to do the job better than RR, just hoping that he can do the job better than he has.

Magnus

October 17th, 2010 at 12:31 PM ^

OP: I have to admit that although I often disagree with you, most of this post is pretty accurate.  Rodriguez has made several questionable coaching decisions/errors just in the past couple weeks.

I actually think he's done a pretty good job in the media, though.  I mean, he's made a couple poor statements, but what coach is perfect in that area?  Even stodgy, classy Lloyd Carr had his slip-ups (for example, "Why would you ask such a stupid question?").

xdusty

October 17th, 2010 at 12:59 PM ^

Youth is the standard reason cited for this defensive down turn. I think its often overlooked that GERG has senior linbackers that he has personally been responsable for. He has also coached them for the last two years and they are just as bad as the young secondary. These are coachable problems too. Poor tackling, making bad reads, finding yourself out of position. There is alot of youth in the secondary and that does account for alot of the problem. However, pinning it all on that and then being unwilling to listen to anything else isnt the answer. In fairness, calling for RRs head every loss isnt the answer either.

NJWolverine

October 17th, 2010 at 2:28 PM ^

First off, I have been a pretty avid Rich Rod supporter from the beginning.  I'm also high on Denard.  But the Iowa game revealed coaching weaknesses that deserve criticism. 

First off, Denard standing in the pocket is not the best way to use him.  Roll him out because that's where his passing is best.  Denard does not have enough in his passing game to become a pocket passer  yet.  He may well improve in the off season, as this is only his first year starting.  But for now, the roll outs are the best option because even if nothing's there Denard can run.  The fact that Denard is in the pocket is because Rich Rod feels the offense has to be perfect for us to win games.  It's time to temper expectations and just accept what you can do on offense, which is a lot, and just see what happens on defense and special teams.  No one expects an undefeated season. 

Second, running Vincent Smith, who is 5'6", 180 lbs. up the middle against 300 pounders should never happen.  Against smaller lines, you might get those running lanes, but against a line like Iowa's you have to use Hopkins, especially with Molk out.  I give the coaching staff credit for seeing how Hopkins can help them, but I fault them for running Smith up the middle.  Of all the plays on offense, that was the least effective and it stalled drives.  Now that Hopkins has shown us he can play, perhaps he should be used more as a power back like Minor and Smith can run to the outside or even be a slot receiver (he was effective with that yesterday). 

Third, sticking with Ezeh for so long when Demens was at least somewhat competant against the run, though not against the pass, is a coaching error.  If Rich Rod lets Robinson run the defense, he should have intervened sooner.  Demens was pretty solid against the run.  Iowa had 137 yards rushing, but that was on 36 attempts, for a 3.8 yards per attempt average.  Not exactly dominant, but fairly respectable against a good rushing team.  If Demens continues to be solid against the run, he would be a huge upgrade over Ezeh. 

Fourth, the penalties are the coach's responsibility.  Fundamentally sound teams like Iowa do not commit many penalties.  The offense is solid, but they have not been clean in their execution the last two games, and that needs to be resolved during the off week. 

Fifth, the kicking game is an absolute disaster and puts even more pressure on the offense.  I can't imagine how Gibbons is any worse than Broekhuizen, but blocked kicks and kicking the ball out of bounds on the kickoff twice is just disconcerting.  If low level non-BCS teams can manage decent kicking stats, I cannot see why we can't do the same.  Again, the coaches failed because the players committed unforced, fundamental errors. 

There is a lot that needs to be cleaned up.  Most of these errors, however, can be corrected in a short amount of time.  The next three games are critical.  Rich Rod must prove his ability to field a fundamentally sound team.  I am confident that he will because he has the track record to prove it.  And maybe with the way OSU played we might have a chance against them.  But I don't think any of us can withstand another meltdown. 

Merz33

October 17th, 2010 at 5:37 PM ^

I am not blaming Robisnon or Smith, they are both talented guys doing their best.  I do blame RR for stubbornly putting them in positions to fail instead of playing guys to their strengths.

So you don't blame the player that made the mistake? It must be the coaches fault that a running back didn't hold on to the football and the quarterback didn't make the correct read and threw an interception. 

Phil Davison

October 17th, 2010 at 8:33 PM ^

Completely out of context. In this case (at least how he sees it), it is RR's fault for Smith fumbling because he put him at a disadvantage before he even touched the ball by running him up against a talented and big D-line and, similarly, by making Denard throw in the pocket. I would add that Denard throwing in the pocket is acceptable as long as there has been some misdirection before and an emphasis on him checking down if necessary.

BigBlue02

October 18th, 2010 at 3:56 AM ^

This is not only ridiculous, but just plain stupid. How on earth can you blame RichRod for a Smith fumble? He is a fucking running back. Their job is to run the ball without fumbling it, whether they get tackled by a defensive lineman or someone in the secondary. RichRod put him at the same advantage every single running back gets.

Same goes for Robinson. He is a fucking QB. Their job is to not throw interceptions. He is put into the exact same position to complete passes as Tate. If your argument is that RichRod shouldn't be starting him at QB, I think you might want to reconsider that.

UMdad

October 18th, 2010 at 7:52 AM ^

So, if I am a coach who has an option of 240 pound hopkins of 160 pound smith to run the ball up the middle on fourth and 1 (or just up the middle in the case of the fumble) and I choose to run the 160 pound back, it is not fair to criticise me if the running back fails?  You are right, I guess I am an idiot.

Merz33

October 18th, 2010 at 10:41 AM ^

Vincent Smith has been running the ball up the middle all year. What is the difference in this case? If  you asked Vincent I'm sure he won't say it was RR fault for giving him the ball up the middle against the big bad Iowa defense.

RR is the one at practice and knows what his players can do. At this point I am sure he trusts Vincent Smith more than Hopkins when it comes to ball security and unfortunately Vincent didn't make the play. Maybe you should rip the O-line for not blocking the guy. Poor execution and Iowa made a better play.