I am not advocating firing RR (yet), and I am not yelling that the sky is falling in. However, everyone that puts their fingers in their ears and yells, "the team is young, we are improving, I WILL ACCEPT NO CTITICISM OF RR!" is not paying attention. I am really getting frustrated by some of the decisions RR and his staff have been making. We are starting young players, so I can accept that they will have growing pain mistakes, but this is not RR or GERG's second year. Denard Robinson is an elite talent running and throwing on fake run-then-pass plays, but is a mediocre (AT BEST) pocket passer. the last two weeks he has asked Robinson to prove to everyone he can drop back and pass. I also like Vincent Smith, but not running up the middle on a fourth and 1 like last week. This week, he watches Hopkins have success up the middle, puts in Smith and runs the same play. Smith gets crushed, fumbles, and the rest is history. I am not blaming Robisnon or Smith, they are both talented guys doing their best. I do blame RR for stubbornly putting them in positions to fail instead of playing guys to their strengths. Add in the decision to punt last week, the fact that our guys apparently don't know that a blocked FG is live, his blowing of Gardner's redshirt to prove a point for two plays, his handling of press conferences and media in general, and the fact that other teams seem to regularly make better second half adjustments than us, and I am starting to feel like we have been outcoached more times than not, If I turn on RR, it is going to be for his coaching mistakes, not for how many times he loses to MSU or OSU or anyone else for that matter. If he is making poor coaching decisions now, how likely is that to change when the players are seniors, or will they just cover them up better?
Fair and balanced complaining about the coaching
A moratorium? Why? People are frustrated and tired of getting our asses kicked by every team even remotely better than us? Some of them have questions or opinions. Not all of them have to carry the same "we're young" and "we'd have signed up for 5-2 before the season started" message.
Regardless of how young we are even my freshman cornerbacks know to not let a WR release inside when there's no safety help. My kicker knows to not kick the ball out of bounds. My interior linemen on PAT and FG know to not get steam rolled on a kick. And I, as a JV high school football coach, know you CAN'T DECLINE A DEAD BALL FOUL.
And do you think burying your head and negging people is the answer?
I think your ignoring some of problems many of the complainers are having.
- Our offense scored 7 points in 3 quarters with our starting QB
- Iowa prepared for DR and ended up with Tate. Tate was the recipient of a somewhat complacent defense.
- Penalties continue to plague us
- We're making elementary mistakes repeatedly
- We were encouraged last week after shooting ourselves in the foot vs. MSU. Yet we shot ourselves in the foot even moreso this game
- We lost AGAIN AT HOME
People are tired and pissed off. 4 conference wins after 2.3 years is the perfect opportunity for some to vent. I'm not saying get rid of RR today, but I'll be damned if I'm just gonna sit and tow the company line.
Lack of perspective? Ok.
.....and your extensive knowledge of the game comes from where?
And that's where my experience trumps your NCAA11 opinion.
4 years HS football
4 years college football
10 years coaching football
Winning is an important measuring stick for progress too. At least as important as whatever encouraging stats we can pull from a game. You both seem to be acknowledging that.
Nothing at all wrong with expecting wins as Michigan fans and being frustrated when it doesn't happen.
Did you honestly expect Michigan to win this game? Iowa will likely be in the top 10 after the new polls are released. They have a fantastic defense and an experienced quarterback. Michigan has neither. If you are frustrated after this game, you need to reevaluate your expectations.
THIS IS MICHIGAN . YOU DON'T LOWER YOUR EXPECTATIONS
Do I expect us to win every game? Nope.
Do I expect us to not have so many mental errors and repetitive mistakes? Hell yes.
Every week there are still a lot of mistakes. I want RR to succeed more than anyone but there comes a time when you have to put emotion aside and look at what is going on. Turnovers, penalties and lack of execution all falls on the coach. The excuse that we don't have enough talent is getting tired and over used. This is Michigan, every year recruiting wise you finish ahead of MSU,Iowa,Wisconsin, Indiana, Northwestern, Minnesota, Purdue, and Illinois . It's been three years and it is time to start beating these teams.
after MSU, IU. UMASS. You and others were wrong each time. This team has a better QB than last year (not the last two games, but still) and a better o-line. Every other area of the team is either worse (defense) or the same (receivers). And in all the fundamentals--assignments, gap responsibility, tackling, avoiding stupid penalties, certain moments of abject confusion on the field--they haven't improved since last year--at all. With a supposedly encouraging and better team this year we lost by greater margins at home to Iowa and MSU than we lost to them last year on the road.
It's not whining, it's objective watching of a team that is in trouble and is not meaningfully improved overall from last year. It is NOT a season that is lost yet (8 wins are still possible) or worthy of a fire RR blast. But to dismiss it as whining is a dickish move and a way to avoid discussing an unpleasant fact. If you don't want to engage in that discussion great--just don't disparage those that do.
Every post you've made in this thread is whining about whiners. You, sir, are a monumental hypocrite.
In every thread that someone has complained about yesterday's game, you have simply replied "Mods please clean this shit up."
Do you have anything substantive to contribute or are you just going to call everybody a whiner because they're criticizing YOUR team? Hey pal, plenty of us here are alumni. You don't have exclusivity to your fandom and we have every right to demand more from our team as you do at defending it.
Congrats. You "demand more". What does that even mean? Do you walk up to Vincent Smith on campus and Demand he stop fumbling? Do you go to class with Broekhuizen and demand that he not kick it out of bounds?
Seriously. I haven't created one of the posts you disparage. but to disparage criticism and negative discussion after two negative games, is not only being a dick, but is actually demonstrating your ignorance of football. Criticism, as long as its not OMG FIRE EVERYONE ARRGGH, is not only legitimate, it is a necessary component of a Michigan football board where its very nature is pro and con discussion of Michigan Football. If you don't recognize that simple fact, just stay out on your lawn and keep yelling at the kids and dogs. Or, and this would be GREAT, go create your own blog where after losses no one gets to say anything other than "we are young. Let's be patient. I am encouraged. UMASS is better than half the teams in the BCS. Iowa is top 15."
Read the title on the board: if it looks repetitive or uninteresting, don't click. If you click, and it says something you disagree with, say so and why. Or, you could skip the board for a few hours. that may save lots of heartburn for you.
Losing is never positive but there were some encouraging signs. Yes, we just lost to two top 15 teams in a row, granted they were at home, and we had some guys dinged up.
The past is the past. The reality is that record-wise, we're exactly where we were last year. Won all four of our non-conf plus Indiana, lost to Iowa and MSU. The reality, completely regardless of what I or any of you think, is that very likely (1) David Brandon isn't going to accept another 5-7 season, particularly if he has an out in RR's contract when the NCAA finally rules (2) the three easiest games left on the schedule are our next three. After our much needed bye week, we're really going to find out what this team is all about. Penn State with an anemic offense led by a true freshman QB and a very banged up defense is beatable. Illinois, despite playing better than most assumed, is a home game, against a freshman QB with an inexperienced offense and is beatable. Purdue, although a road game, wasn't a good game going into the season and then they lost their top three offensive weapon and is beatable. We've talked about measuring sticks. To me, a REALISTIC measuring stick is how we do against the next three teams.
At the outset of the season many talked about 7 or 8 wins needed to show some improvement and beating SOME Big Ten teams. Penn State, Illinois and Purdue are those teams. Iowa and, as hard as it is to admit MSU, along with Wiscy and OSU are the cream of the crop this year. We all know we're young, the issues with the defense and all the redundant issues raised in the postings that Wolverine 318 has been mentioning are simply our current reality. Now its time to heal, get the team in order for two weeks, and then sit down and watch the next three weeks which will likely determine the outcome of the season. The team is ENTIRELY capable of winning all three of these games and being 8-2 going into the Wisconsin game and having written a ticket to a bowl game.
Lets just sit back the next four weeks and see what happens. After Purdue we'll likely know a lot more about where this team really is.
Maybe Michigan will hire you for the next coach... You're a successful jv coach and seem to know more than coach rod... Get your jv staff together and start recruiting jv players and get this team going again... I know jv coaches know a hell of alot more than someone that has been coaching division 1 football for 20 years.
Posters like wolverine318 really lead to the demise of this forum. Wolverine318 is idiotic and makes me sick. Why are so many people so willing to accept mediocrity from what is supposed to be a top tier program? This topic was calling it like it is and poses some 100% accurate and indiputable facts about the current and future states of our football program. wolverine318, you sir have failed. as a die hard Michigan fan, i dont want to be associated with you or other so called Michigan fans who think like you. while you are content with being Northwestern and losing to OSU and MSU, i on the other hand want national championships and to beat our rivals.
Coming from the guy with negative 422 points. I don't know about you all but I'm listening to THIS guy
Delete, expunge, terminate.
I don't think that I agree with a lot of your post (which is fine, you have laid out some good points), but this really mystifies me.
his handling of press conferences and media in general
Is there a specific incident or something to which you're referring that I'm simply forgetting? Personally, I think he does an excellent job with the media, he comes across as a really likeable guy who works well with the reporters and columnists despite the nasty things they say about him
Specifically the way he handled the Dorsey questions, his getting angry at the press conferense this summer, etc. I just feel that he doesn't come across as dominating the press conference as much as I would like him to. I sometimes get teh impression that the media guys walk into the room thinking they are going to be able to get whatever out of him they want.
Why would they bother trying to get him to say things when they can lie with impunity (see hard-hitting investigation of MAJOR violations by the leading Detroit tabloid)?
Still, I agree that more poise on RichRod's part would be pleasant. Hard to come down on him too hard, though, given the way he's been treated by the local press (in contrast to Saint Dantonio) ...
I agree. Shut this bitch down until the work week. Every thread is the exact same.
You just compained about every thread being the same by saying the same thing that was commented two comments before you. Should you be shut down for a week to keep us from listening to you say, "I agree?"
'Shut this bitch down' , is there a song with that title? Because if there isn't, there should be...
Shut it Down by Pitbull has that exact line it in. I'm sure it could be clipped out of there.
New 5000 point min. to post a thread the week after a loss would also help.
Finally, I continue to advocate the "are you serious" button too pop up after "save" is hit.
All the threads from last night and today are making me very tired. Although debate is healthy, most of these just seem like rants.
This is closer to reasonable criticism of the RichRod regime than most posts (not saying much, of course), but:
* "Denard Robinson is an elite talent running and throwing on fake run-then-pass plays, but is a mediocre (AT BEST) pocket passer." That was his seventh game as a starter. In an Iowa sort of universe he'd be a redshirt freshman. What does this have to do with RichRod? What do you propose to do?
* "I also like Vincent Smith, but not running up the middle on a fourth and 1 like last week." Fair enough ... on the surface, I don't get this, either. Anyone care to speculate on RichRod's attachment to this guy (Smith)? Is he the only one who doesn't @#$% up plays and fumble in practice?
* "... fact that our guys apparently don't know that a blocked FG is live ..." Looks bad, yeah, but I think we need more data.
* "... blowing of Gardner's redshirt to prove a point ..." That's one explanation, but it seems somewhat emotional to me. (Not saying it isn't grounded in reality ...) It's hard to project to 2014, isn't it? If Gardner proves to be All-World (or whatever), he'll leave before 2014. This also assumes that Michigan will fail to recruit any reasonable quarterbacks in '11/'12. Hasn't been a problem yet ...
* "... handling of press conferences and media in general ..." What are your complaints? This is pretty vague.
* "... fact that other teams seem to regularly make better second half adjustments than us ..." Examples, please? I'm open to the general idea.
* "... I am starting to feel like we have been outcoached more times than not ..." Sorry, but this isn't MLive. FEELING is no good here. Examples, please. As with the prior point, I'm open to the idea.
And, this is more of a lighthearted, half sarcastic thing. And yes, its about his beloved Lion King quote.
He keeps on quoting the Lion King - about "it doesn't matter, its in the past."
Please everybody, do yourself a favor, and watch this youtube video:
For the love of God, every two year old should know that scene is about learning from the past. If he wants to quote Lion King, good for him. But at least catch the deeper message rather than taking it at face value!
So the next time a member of the media draws a comparison from last year to this year, and asks RichRod how the team can learn from last year...you understand why I'll be in the corner of a room somewhere, beating my head against a wall.
Are you freaking kidding? Do you have any idea how idiotic that statement is? Do you have the slightest recollection of Bo Schembechler at press conferences? Do you know that Bo physically shoved a Michigan Daily reporter in 1979? Do you remember Lloyd Carr at press conferences angrily calling out reporters present in the room? Do you remember LC being a dick to on-field sideline reporters, and having to apologize for his comments afterwards?
If you want to criticize the product on the field, have at it—there's plenty to criticize. But there is not a single press conference that RR has had since he's been here during which he has exhibited behavior that is remotely out-of-line or untoward. If you think that merely "getting angry" at a presser is somehow beneath the historical standards of Michigan coaches, you're just plain ignorant.
for the memories...I loved every one of Lloyd's interactions (non-statements, obfuscation, irritability and overall hostility) involving any sideline reporter. Those moments truly added to the fan experience on tv in my younger days.
Here's his one happy moment.
Lloyd was certainly a classy individual. Michigan has always had intelligent players as well. I have not seen that in the last three years. It reflects so poorly on the program when our coach looks out of control and starts going off on everyone on the sideline. I am not yet saying fire RR but when do we demand wins over decent Big 10 teams?
We have five Big Ten teams left to play this season, ranging from not very good to decent to pretty damn good. Don't you think those data points are at all relevant before "demanding" more wins?
Anybody who thinks Lloyd Carr dumped on Rich Rod's tenure can watch this video and shove it.
Didn't Lloyd one time say to a sideline reporter "Well that's a stupid question"?
against one of the top defenses in the country. Outgained Iowa by 100 yds in the second half with our back-up QB. Yet you claim RR is getting 'out-coached'? Having two kick-offs go out of bounds is simply bad luck. Refelcts nothing on the coaching. The defense is still extremely young and still making mental mistakes. This will improve and these games will turn into wins.
I agree with your points, save for one. I don't think kicking the ball out of bounds is "bad luck". It is poor execution from a walk-on kicker who should be sitting behind the scholarship kicker except the scholarship kicker can't win the job. I don't put much weight into stats, but they do help salve the soul after an ugly loss.
We lost...to a very good team.
This season isn't over 8-4 is still obtainable.
you are totally forgetting the "doesn't dominate the press conference" comment.
Please save us from ourselves until Tuesday.
I can't handle all the whinning, bitching and complaining...See you during the work week when the informative threads reappear.
I agree that the coaching has left some things to be desired, but you go too far. I still think that overall RR is a good decision maker. Don't tell me that you make 100% correct decision bc nobody does. The key is to make more good decisions than bad decisions and I think RR is far on the good decision side of things.
One thing I will say is that the special teams is atrocious and that is on RR. It might be time to get a coach for that part of the game bc we wont be able to pull through in winnable upsets anytime soon when it cant make field goals and gives up 150 yards of field position.
This is year three under RR and the defense is getting worse. I know the defense is young but this is the third year and all UM can come up with in the secondary is a bunch of receivers turned DB and a walk on. UM could finish at the bottom of the Big Ten again if something doens't change. I don't see much acccountability from the staff. Why is the DB coach still with this team? He has done nothing in three years.
Lets explore our potential 2010 CBs,, (my opinion of depth chart)
D. Warren #1 CB -- Whether or not he was "always a 3 and done CB" per the meme - he would have been by far the best CB on this team. We think it was a mistake to go pro but you can't blame him for thinking prior to 2010 that even with him this team would not compete for a B10 title. (pre-Denardening obviously) - thus the incentive to "get paid" now versus another year of hard work, school etc on a potentially "OK" team.
Boo Boo #2 CB -- I am not sure if he truly would have been the #2 CB for anything but experience - but he would have been at least on par with Floyd IMO. Shame to see how his life has spiralled down since he left UofM. (Personally never liked his Miami-ish swagger on the field - even after plays he was beaten but the receiver dropped the ball)
T Woolfolk #3 CB -- ideally with enough depth he moves to take the C. Gordon spot - out with injury for the year,
JT Floyd #4 CB -- We "hated" him last year opposite Warren - (remember last year?)
#5 - #7 CB Take you pick D.Dorsey (worth taking a failed 'flyer' academically. ime), A. Witty (essentially a throw-in to secure Denard that turned out might actually be a good player - hasn't cracked the starting lineup at Cinci yet I don't think) J.T.Turner -( some kids just flame out at the next level - lack of discipline away from home, having to work very hard for the first time to compete for PT, or a failure by the coaches)
#8 James Rogers - Heck of a dedicated guy to this program - just ability challenged
#9 - #11 Insert other frosh CBs here.
I agree the secondary play has to improve for us to compete in the B10. However if we had just 2 of the top 5 above playing this year things would be better. If we have 2 PLUS T-Wolf moved to safety, we would be confined to bitching about linebacker play this year and MIGHT have 1 more win at this time.