Seems like an odd time to talk about the past when there's finally so much in the present to talk about, but we're under an hour away from the movie premiere on ESPN. If anyone has any thoughts on their Fab Five experience, to get us warmed up for the movie, let's hear them. And then we can pop the popcorn, and cozy up for the broadcast, which should be interesting, if nothing else. Like I said somewhere else here, it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.... And it's time to relive them, or experience them for the first time.
Fab Five Movie Open Thread
F ed martin. As someone too young to fully appreciate the Fab Five I'm excited for the movie. I forsee some internet basketball short shopping in about two hours...
They were just college kids, you can't expect them to pass up free money/stuff!
There is a degree of truth to this though.
Where were all the adults at that should have been seeing to it that the Ed Martins of the world did not become ingrained in U-M's program?
Serious question: Not knowing much about the Fab Five era, which hopefully will be remedied tonight, who would be the ones that could have stepped up? Coach? Assistant coaches? Parents? All of the above?
The program was pretty dirty from the top down even before the Fab Five showed up. Ed Martin wasn't just some random dude handing out bags of cash for the hell of it.
Ed Martin developed his relationships with all of the involved kids before they ever set foot on Michigan's campus.
Ed Martin wasn't a Michigan coach, he wasn't a Michigan faculty member, he wasn't a Michigan letterwinner or alumus. I don't think that Ed Martin was even a donor.
If Ed Martin had never been born, what exactly would Michigan's NCAA violations have been?
If he was none of those things, then why was he invited to practice? Given tickets? Given rooms in the team hotel? I would consider gifts to the head coach "donations".
Acting like he was just some lone renegade who got off on paying potential college basketball players is retarded.
Why was Steve Fisher forging signatures on ticket requests for Ed Martin? Why did Ed Martin pay for Steve Fisher's father's wake?
To pretend that Ed Martin had no association with Michigan basketball, or that he was just a kindly poobah handing out jackets and gym shoes to impoverished Detroit basketball players is just disingenuous.
It's in the Mitch Albom book. I don't have my copy here, but it's in there.
Pardon me if I take Mitch Albom's word a little more seriously than someone posting on a blog message board with the handle "big gay heart."
But that's just me.
Where someone posting on a blog message board with the handle "big gay heart" had connections, you might be more inclined to consider the possibility and less inclined to take the word of a known fabulist straight up.
But that's just me.
...had such a virtuous relationship with Lou Bullock of DC/Maryland.
I agree w/Albom about Webber getting the lion's share of his money b/w declaring and signing.
Traylor and Taylor were Detroit kids, but they were getting paid way more than the pocket change the Fab Five got (at least while on campus).
I really can't buy into that whole thing Albom pitched at the end. Seems incredibly convenient and unbelievable. Webber declares for the draft knowing he's about to get a gigantic payday in, oh, about 5 minutes, and all of the sudden that's when Ed Martin throws him the bulk of the cash? Especially when the Webber family had connections to Ed Martin going back to the late 80's? Absolutely no way. If Jalen admitted to taking a few grand when he was in school, and he knew Martin as long as Webber did (Webber and Jalen were close with both Perry Watson and Ed Martin for years), there's no way Chris wasn't the same way.
I'd be interested in hearing the context of Mitch throwing out that idea, because I have a hard time believing he would seriously believe that's the only likely scenario.
Thanks for the negbombs. Appreciate it.
Coaches should be aware of changes in the players it is hard for a kid to hide new money when they have none. I was at Gtown during the Fab 5 and I know John Thompson stopped players from hanging out with a big drug dealer Rayful Edmonds, Alonzo Mourning being one of those players. I don't know a lot about Ed Martin or the Webber situation but coaches should know what is going on with their team especially with only having 13 players. I don't think Fisher is a bad guy but he probably knew something about what was going on.
Steve Fisher is the guy who fucked over Michigan.
I would say that Tom Goss fucked us over. He hired Ellerbe. Ellerbe was worse than any punishment the NCAA could have ever given us.
The hole Amaker (and now Beilein) had to dig out of existed before the sanctions came down. Still, Fisher and the shady way he ran his program was the reason for the sanctions. Hopefully we get to kick his ass in Anaheim in a couple of weeks.
Fish had to go. As an assistant, he knew about the "friends of the program" in the locker rooms and in the stands.
I think Dutcher would have been the best replacement, and likely next coach if this scandal never occured. But he couldn't be the coach. You needed a clean break from that entire coaching staff.
he was a good guy. Ed Martin was the one who messed it up. Boosters who want to be more than a supporter are the bad guys. The only Steve Fisher haters are the ones who hate Michigan and/or the Fab Five because they couldn't beat them or didn't like their style of play. I think this movie is great but Steve Fisher's not the one to be pissed at.
and won a national title
Ed Martin can go eat a big fat juicy shitburger.
...when you six feet under.
I was lucky enough to attend a game (although I think it was the next year, after Webber left), but way too young to know what I was seeing. All I remember about the game was:
- My dad was the greatest human being ever for taking my brother and I. (Still is, but that was my reason that day.)
- We sat in the very last row. I remember because the wall panels kept letting off crap when I brushed against it.
- We got an insanely blurry picture of Jalen Rose taking a free throw.
I've got mixed feelings about the Fab 5, but they're a huge piece of our history. It's one of those things where other fanbases hate them half out of disdain for how they were recruited and half out of jealousy. We all know that MSU fans would have the same feelings about them as we do if roles were reversed, but I can't really blame them for hating the Fab 5's guts.
They may have set our program back in a huge way, but even for someone who wasn't really in tune to them while they were here, it was good while it lasted.
Anywhere to watch this online?
On a positive note, I have my black socks on, my michigan shorts (which I have to yank a ways down because they havn't been worn in years) and a my michigan cap, and t shirt. I am ready for this.
Woah, it's two hours long? I don't know if i can feel conflicted for that long.
There's no reason to feel conflicted. The Fab Five were not responsible for us hiring Brian Ellerbe.
anyone know of streams for this? Love to watch it here in Korea.
OK, you were faster than me. Thanks.
Look forward to watching, all I remember about the Fab Four was Webber, then again I barely followed any sports as a kid.
Should be a good film.
Did you like Ringo better than Webber?
It's time! Should be good.
At the time? Jalen for me.
Has to be Jalen
I want so bad to go steal all that stuff and put it up in the most epic of Michigan themed man rooms
This intro is getting me pumped up
WE GONNA SHOCK THA WORLD
fuck this is awesome already!
I already have chills. Wow, this is going to be amazing
Juwan was safe, and had a future, so she could let go...
That's the first time i've heard that story, so sad. I totally agree with your point about his grandmother. So classy of the coaches to fly out for her funeral to be there for Juwan.
wow, how did I not know that Jalen's dad was Jimmy Walker?
Lol Webber so much taller than everyone else in these kid videos
Weber scored 50 against me and in high school (ypsi)
One of the greats of all time.
I remember when they signed, the average student on campus had to have it explained that we had a recruiting class the likes of which had NEVER been seen.
Lol Jalen asking for the baggy shorts
"Before the Fab 5 dudes was wearing panties out there" - Ice Cube.
bring on Duke next Sunday, baby!
Damn Jalen, you said it!
Sorry, Jalen. No proactiv in those days...
Black players that were uncle toms...
A bitch, and grant hill was a bitch
THAT was a Duke team you could hate. Hurley was a weasel, and Laettner was a dirty piece of shit.
Then Hurley was fouled shooting a 3. He made all 3 foul shots to go to OT.
Hahaha I'm lovin all this hate an Laettner.
I'm loving all the hate on Duke. Bring on those [insert Fab Five's adjectives here].
It's funny how much trash Michigan has spoken toward the Duke game
"What up Detroit"
The TV interview where they all say experience > youth is nonsense, and then they all taking shots at Duke
It is so good to have this ESPN series back, I can't name one bad ESPN movie (except that fantasy baseball one)
Comeback from 17 down , wow!
Is when Maize became cool. The first big game jersey Michigan wore.
Can we please bring those warmups back?
This Is Classic
For that game vs Duke. What a rowdy rowdy atmosphere, we need to get back to those days. That gave me chills seeing that.
I still remember standing in line all night to get into that game. That was an unbelievable atomosphere at Crisler.
I really think the basketball team should break out some retro warm-ups for the game against Tennessee after watching this.
We used to dress. Be even funnier if we could break them out for Duke....
Damn, how good is this? I'm loving it and it has me even more pumped for this Friday and next Sunday vs. the Duke bitches.
Well done Jalen - thanks from all the UM fans.
Please bring back the big M on each side of the shorts and make the "MICHIGAN" on the front larger like these jerseys...by far the best Michigan Basketball jerseys ever (even though the 1989's are still special)
IT IS TIME TO RECLAIM THEM. NOW.
The mourning period is over.
Watching this reminds me how much I really loved them.
God do I miss these days. Back then I wasn't the only Michigan fan around, we had a ton of people on the band wagon. This has been great so far.
Damnit all, I'm already shopping for long shorts and a Jalen shirt...
I think it will help although we look more like duke now...ironic
Was a bitch
Does anyone know of a HD stream? I found the decent atdhenet stream but would love to find better. http://atdhenet.tv/7215/watch-espn
That they didn't focus more on the end of regualtion in that Duke game. Michigan was up three as time was expiring. Hurley launched a three and Webber fouled him on the shot.
Hurley + Free throws = Automatic. I still get sick to my stomach thinking about Webber lunging at Hurley on that shot.
Michigan played Notre Dame in basketball?
Wish they would play them now in basketball :(
at the same time. Before that Notre Dame game. I remember that game as sort of being more exciting, just to see them all together. We were waiting for it, for a couple of games.
A few years ago. It was more common when they weren't in the Big East.
We played ND 3 straight years during the Amaker years and we won all 3. I remember 2 of them came down to the final minute.
Tim Hardaway Jr. doesn't know what you're talking about.
That was three minutes of my face being stuck in the "oooohhh sweeeeet" look.
It's unreal the amount of trash talk that was allowed... Imagine all the T's these guys would get now. It's laughable how quick T's come now.
"At NC freshmen carry bags, at Michigan they carry teams". Not realizing we didn't take it as an insult, but a compliment.
sister went to Michigan (as did his dad and grand father). I had her in Econ 101 the year after Michigan lost to them in the NC game. It was hard not to dislike her.... and it had nothing to do with her.
on Grecian Formula.
Actually, it must be shoe polish, because Grecian Formula leaves just a touch of gray, right?
I really wish I was alive to see this. Awesome stuff so far.
Before this movie Webber was my Fab 5 player
After seeing Jalen trash talk fools my opinion has changed
Jalen was a student of trash talking, haha I love it. Don't tell magnus though, trash talking is unacceptable to him.
Michigan's above trash talking
I love how cocky they were. They were good and they let everyone know it, i'm just saying magnus would probably hate it.
Oh I love it too. Swagger, confidence, cockiness, whatever, the great ones had it, it just manifests itself in different ways.
All those shots of the fans at Crisler are amazing. They look more rowdy than any atmosphere you see today.
The MSU game from this year and the Duke game from a few years ago were pretty comparable imo.
Mitch Albom looks like a 74 year old with 24 year old, 1970's era hair.
It's probably a good thing Bo was no longer AD at this time.
I am not buying this story about legions of Michigan alumni hating on five black kids.
That's just the pre-internet manifestation of what we see now; lots of casual "fans" spouting off. If there were some letters from some alums complaining about trashtalk or haircuts or shorts, I might beleive it.
But I was there. I was there when our fans were cheering Glen Rice and Rumeal Robinson and Gary Grant before these guys ever got to town. We've loved and cheered those guys, and long before them, Cazzie Russell and Bill Buntin.
I want to see the letters. I want data. I don't believe it, outside of small numbers of outliers. Not from real alumni, not from more than a handful of them.
Edit. -- I see numerous comments expressing shock at what racism there was. And on that basis, I see this film as falling short, and giving a distorted impression. I never, ever, heard one negative comment about the team in all their games at Crisler. Never one negative, racist comment among groups of other alums. Not one. Ever.
Refusal to believe until proof is given is a rational position; denial of all outside of our own limited experience is absurd.
Are you implying that ESPN just made up the letters and went through the time of drafting phony letters just for the hell of it?
What did they say?
Yeah, I am calling bullshit. Those shitheaded letters are no different from the crap we now see on the internet, on MLive and Freep.com. If some creeps from the far corners wrote some racist crap, I'm not terribly surprised. As I say, go prowl the internets and tell us what you find. If a dozen alumni wrote and said they didn't like the team's attitude, again I am not surprised.
But this whole conversation has morphed into "alumni racism." And I am calling bullshit on that. I was there at Crisler for all of this. We loved this show.
Do you not understand that just a few years earlier, we were cheering a team of Glen Rice, Terry Mills, Loy Vaught, Rumeal Robinson and Sean Higgns? Sean Higgins, from Hollywood, would have fit in perfectly as a member of the Fab Five. Did the Michigan Alumni Association suddenly become racist, after we won a National Cahmpionship?
This was pure manipulation by the documentary's producers and directors; to play up the "cultural" aspect of the Fab Five era. Much ado about nothing, if you ask me.
I see, I thought you were arguing that there was no way that there was any alumni racism.
Tell it to somebody who cares. I was there. I saw it live.
I just wanted to figure out what you were trying to say. You edit your comments so frequently it's hard to tell sometimes. I honestly thought you were trying to say Jalen Rose and ESPN made all the racism up completely. I agree it was probably exaggerated for the documentary, but we saw enough ignorance about Denard playing quarterback that it isn't far fetched to assume some whacktard alum fired off a letter to Rich Rod about starting a black quarterback in front of Tate.
A very small number of crazed comments from a few whackos does not make for a trend, or a movement or anything else. Hardly worth mention in a major documentary.
It should be noted, for anyone who does not know much about Chris Webber personally. He is an exceptionally bright guy, with a very wide range of interests outside of basketball. Art, music, reading, etc. And he is also an unusually sensitive person. I think that Webber always thinks that he's some kind of victim, has something to prove, overcome, etc. Except he was privileged to attend Detroit Country Day School, and the University of Michigan on a full scholarship, and he made a large fortune playing a game at which he was extraordinarily gifted. And the one time he got in trouble with the law was because he lied his ass off.
I was there too and while there weren't fans in the stands hurling the "N" word at them while they were on the court, it's not too hard to believe the older elements of the fanbase reacting this way to 5 brash African-American basketball players.
I remember how much flack Desmond Howard caught for doing the Heisman pose from the older faction of the fanbase. 20 years later it's a celebrated part of Michigan lore, but back then if was very controversial. As students we thought it was a great way to poke the Buckeyes in the eye.
The Fab Five were great too, but there has always been a conservative element at Michigan that believes there's the "Michigan Way" of doing things. I'm not saying that every older alum was a bigot, but there was a large portion of the fanbase that was uncomfortable with these 5 kids, wearing maize and blue, talking and taunting. Older people didn't like it.
I think how the whole Rich Rodriguez tenure was treated is testament that this mentality still exists at Michigan to some extent.
Wow. Those letters were awful.
I'm a little surprised. There are always jackasses, but UM was such a liberal place ever since the 60's.
Couldn't believe it either, but the vocal minority stands out. Plus, there's always been a portion of the Michigan fanbase with a stick up their rear ends, although this was obviously excessive. Disgusting.
Back in the mid-80s, there was an issue due to a couple racist letters snuck under the door of black students dorm rooms. It led to different protests. That's where the Black Action Movement got started up there.
UM has been a liberal place, but these things can still happen.
Yes they were. I could understand it coming from opponents though that would be bad enough. Yet coming from alumni? Just embarrassing.
I was in high school when the Fab 5 was around. I didn't realize the ignorance that they had to deal with. That shit really irritates me.
Because if you were in college, the Fab Five were the coolest thing, EVER. If you were much older, you still expected B-Ball to be coach dominated Bobby Knight style basketball. It doesn't seem strange today, because Fab Five style basketball won the test of time.
Sometimes that "Michigan arrogance" really gets under my skin. How those letters brought those guys together is truly remarkable. It would've easily messed me up mentally.
Fuck all of those so called U of M fans who couldn't tolerate 5 black players playing their hearts out and bringing the university into the spotlight. Hearing that from them makes me sick, but shows you how close they all were for rallying around each other when that happened.
The fab five was amazing. I wish we could put together another team like that...won't happen, and even if we did it wouldn't be the same since it had "already" been done.
Yeah. As a white guy, its hard to think that racism is all that prevalent these days, and all that hatred and bullshit was soooo long ago. But as I white guy, I don't know shit. This wasn't all that long ago. Makes me sick to even think about it.
They STILL talk and think like that over there.
I've already missed a bunch of this. Does anyone know if it will be online on demand?
I imagine it'll be for sale on ITunes like the 30 for 30's.
I moved to Michigan right after the '89 championship game from New Jersey. Watching these guys was unbelievable. You couldn't get enough. This is an example of how you love these guys when they play.for your team and hate them when they play for another team.
"We hate Ohio State"
I love you.
"Ohio State Fuckeyes"
Jalen certainly has some priceless quotes.
Jalen is letting it all out! I love it.
Loved the smirk after the Fuckeyes comment.
Yes, it wasn't just the words, it was the look!
love to hear this.
I kind of wish this were on HBO. I know not everyone could see it then, but I can only imagine how much better the dialogue would if it were not on cable.
That Cosby thing is hilarious
I love Jalen. Despise OSU.
The white guys on this team definitely did not have the same swag as the Fab Five.
Pelinka gave us quality minutes and James Voskuil was maybe the best shooter on the team. That team went 8 or 9 players deep.
Oh I know that they were great players, there's no way in the world five freshman could make the NCAA final alone.
I remember watching this like it was yesterday. Watched it at church cuz it was the biggest screen around.
This hurts right now b/c we know what's going to happen.
Hill killed us. Couldn't do anything to stop him on the baseline.
Just great stuff. Very candid (as much as you can be on ESPN) and truly a revolutionary squad.
If you guys want to know pain, I was born the day we lost the NC vs. Duke. That was the first sporting event I ever watched.
I think everyone is going to be in extreme pain before the next commercial break...
Is that I'm fucking old.
Any chance there is some high schoolers watching this right now who want to come to Michigan and emulate their heroes?
Me, but I'm a slow, very unathletic, 6'1" white boy who can't shoot.
Webber was not happy after that game...
Jalen is a UM hero, but after this doc, I think he should be a UM legend of the highest order - top five of any sport. That's just me, but I love what this movie says about him and UM.
all these people talking about never seeing these guys play are making me feel old. It wasn't that long ago!
I know, right? I don't want to believe that I am probably in the older percentage of people on this blog.
I was a frosh the same year as the fabbers. What a great time it was!
"We Can Play" T-Shirt. :-)
That royalties graph is obscene.
A little of that had to of come from Desmond winning the Heisman that year. Not as much as the Fab Five, but a little.
Can we get it on the players this weekend?
I would explode in my pants if they came out in those warmups. Daaaaaaaaaang.
Wow, the Fab 5 didn't get shit from merchandising. That's 10 mill. 10 mil!
Wow. Just wow.
Nobody "exploited" any of these guys. Spare me.
And if i didn't hate bill walton before he's sealed the deal...
Ahhhhhh fuck you Bill Walton
Go fuck yourself
And his hypocritical vendetta. He probably got more money than Webber.
And nobody touched them in the Pac 10. I think that's what Walton is talking about. The UCLA run of success.
Had ten times the players on the take ad Michigan ever had. They had their own Ed Martin. They just act all holier than thou over it rather than regretful. And Walton was more full of it than any of them.
The Fab Five were a great team; I am not doubting that (and maybe Walton was); but the Fab Five Michigan teams never won a Big Ten title, or a National Championship.
I know those stories about UCLA, too. Bill Walton would be on thin ice if he had been on Michigan about that.
For their style of play, for not doing it like Wooden did...when he knew they were more alike than different. Walton was more low character than any of them in school...he was just a hippie pothead.
Walton didn't rip on Webber for taking money or smoking pot. (I suspect that Chris Webber smoked more pot than Walton, btw.) Walton, in this film, was assuredly not talking about Webber getting any under-the-table money, either.
Walton's film clip was from the time, when Michigan had been good in the Big Ten, but hadn't blown anybody away.
I personally think that the Fab Five proved Walton wrong. But his statement in the film had some poignancy. We had a hell of a lot of tough games and our share of losses in the Big Ten. I was there, and I saw them. I saw how the team played.
He was aware of everything everyone was saying about the Fab Five at the time, you seem woefully ignorant of all the trash Walton would talk about Michigan and the way they played the game at the time. He was brutal. And clip aside, it was often on not doing it the right/read Wooden, way.
Bill Walton was, at the time, making a living off of being a basketball commentator, and his schtick was to say provocative things. He was the Jay Bilas/Charles Barkley/Digger Phelps of that time. They paid him to stir things up on broadcasts. To be edgy.
You really think that Walton, in saying that a team that never won a conference, tournament, or national championship was "overrated," is somehow more offensive than current-day commentator Jalen Rose, saying that the black players on Duke were "Uncle Toms"?
“one of the most overrated and underachieving teams of all time…who epitomize a lot of what’s wrong with a lot of basketball players.”
Tell me that's just about them not "winning enough". And not completely hypocritical considering what kind of program he was at, and the type of player he was and played with. And not everyone agreed with it.
Might Walton have been right? Were they just a bunch of overhyped losers? If you ever ask Vitale that question, be ready to duck.
“It is absolutely absurd for people to criticize the Fab Five as underachievers or failures because they didn’t win a title,” Vitale says. “College ball is not the NBA. It’s one game and there’s a lot of luck involved. Many great teams don’t win titles, but we unfortunately live in a world where if you don’t cut down the nets, you didn’t achieve anything. That’s a ridiculous perspective.”
And no team proved that point more than the Fab Five.
Doesn't make Vitale any more right. Just another opinion. Any more than justifying bad behavior with other bad behavior. But the idea that Walton wasn't throwing bombs at the way the Fab Five acted and played, not just what they accomplished, in the days before media was all online at a click is just faulty memory. He trashed them every chance he got. And considering all he did was win more in a REAL pay for players regime, it makes him an ass.
Seriously. Wooden's a great guy, but how does he instantly go from mediocre to pulling in the best recruits in the country? Something was extremely dirty there in Westwood.
UCLA got to play almost every tourney on their home court and they had their own bag handler just like Ed Martin. His name was Sam Gilbert. NCAA has been hypocritical for a long time. Walton got paid just like the Fab Five and he knows it.
Edit: Beaten by the boss.
Google "Sam Gilbert UCLA" and you'll get all you ever needed to know about the dirty underside of the Wooden UCLA program.
I'd almost want to see the RCMB's reaction to this, but hell no.
I had the t-shirt and the cards. and the socks and shoes.
I still have those cards.
I'm so glad Jalen shut Illinois up in that game. Damn.
I feel bad for Jalen, but the "Just Say No" chant was hilarious.
Not a whole lot different than the Maize Rage chanting "No means No" at Appling last Saturday. Funny stuff
Did I miss something on that graph? Didn't it say post-1992 royalties were 10.2 M? Did that mean just 1992-3 or the next few years?
If it only meant 92-93, then jesus, that is ridiculous.
Not entirely sure which 2 years.
Glad to see Jalen bitch slap Illinois! What a trip down memory lane this is! Now, let's smack those bitch as Blue Devils in the mouth in honor of the Fab 5. Go Blue!!
I don't want to watch
maybe there's a chance that they'll pull this game out this time....
And they didn't mention Chaney sent his Temple thugs shouting "break their legs" because he was so pissed getting his ass kicked by us 2 years in a row.
Also passed over the exciting game in Hawaii where we buzzer beat NC...
Bur damn, we send that to OT, and we win.
So, do you think Chris Webber is watching this right now?
He has to be...
Such a kick in the soul dong. How do you run out of time outs in basketball anyway? There's only like 30.
we have no time outs
Almost 20 years later.. I can still feel the punch in the dong.
sports memory for me while a student, only behind the Colorado game, and only because I was at the Colorado game.
I was six weeks from graduation and ready to go out in style and then.....I walked aimlessly around Ann Arbor for two hours after that game.
Oh wow...I never knew that part..
But I always looked at it like we would never have been there without Webber.
And a mistake others did and could have made.
Webber clearly is saying to Talley that he told him to call a time out. What a chaotic fucking nightmare. Can you imagine the pressure? Can you imagine screwing the pooch on the biggest stage in college athletics?
As Jalen said, Michigan was clearly the better team. With 39 minutes-plus to distance itself from the UNC NBA journeymen.
One mistake did not do them in.
Should have called the travel. I might be mistaken, but Hightower wwas refereeing this game, I think. EFFF
had the travelling been called.
Wow. That video is REALLY interesting showing someone motioning for the time-out right after Webber rebounded the missed free throw. How very interesting...
I've spent half of this movie arguing with my dad that the Fab Five weren't at Michigan in 1989. He keeps insisting it was 1989 even though they literally have said it in this movie a hundred times.
Other than that, cool movie.
When we WON the title?
Have you tried the Wikipedia treatment?
Doesn't work on old people. In fact, if it's on the internet, that's an indictment on its truthfulness.
"Oh yeah, I remember the Fab Five like it was yesterday. December 10th, 1989, the day we moved into our new house. You were about to turn 6. Five freshman out on the floor together against Duke in their first game of the year."
"The game against Duke the Fab Five played was the fifth game of the season, and that was in 1991."
"No, it wasn't."
until just now. Wow.
If we win, they never hammer us as hard, because the NCAA has no teeth against champs, Fisher has 2 titles, probably still coaching here, Izzo continues to get his ass kicked by Fisher, never gets a foothold....
Man, I've always felt so bad for Chris Webber.
Jeez.. watching the post-game presser with Webber is heart wrenching. Poor guy.
You had to know this was coming, but it still hurts. Great documentary...but it hurts
after all these years. I know there is more to come but that timeout call was a mistake made in a moment as a 19-20 year old.
or the NCAA violations. Regarding his statements to the court/legal authorities, his lawyers are likely advising him to lay low.
Why would you want to shake that hornets nest?
I feel bad for C Webb after watching that
Gee, are you surprised he didn't want to have anything to do with it? Not exactly going to highlight his shining moments.
I will give Chris a ton of credit. You wouldn't see a guy sit and answer questions from the media after the game like he did. Took a Michigan Man with huge you know what's to sit there when you just lost your dream.
I've got my gripes with ESPN, but damn do they do a good job with these things. I feel like a heart crushed, soul dong smashed, 15 year old again.
NOW is when it gets REALLY painful. At the time, didn't think it could get worse than the TO....
And Michigan was supposed to know?
I'l say this -- our hiring of Perry Watson gave me the creeps from Day One.
I like how CWeb didn't call out the teammates at the press conference and just said "I don't remember"...That's brotherhood
For Chris to come out now and say he thought he heard someone on the bench tell him to call time out would be odd. He obviously took the blame then and accepted that. Impressive.
White Howard, Blue Webber, Maize Jalen.
I was at the draft when Webber was taken...
Damn, Ed Martin time
The good part's over. Chris probably needs to apologize and come clean if he wants any shot of being able to come back.
I wish CWebb was a part of this - this would make me feel the circle has been closed and the Fab Five brotherhood has returned to be loved... now, it's a reminded that the wound still exists.
This documentary is unbelievable. I was 4 years old when they arrived on campus. My Dad actually took me to a few games.
These guys transcended sports. They were social icons. I just wish that I would have been older to understand.
Fuck you Ed Martin by the way.
Oh shit. MSC up in the house.
It's cause Jalen is a producer of it. He is very much respected at the University.
Wait, Michigan fired a coach for violating NCAA rules? Heh.
I can't even imagine the ratings this documentary is pulling in East Lansing as we speak.
I like that this is the story of "The Ed Martin Scandal." As it was.
Jalen doesn't hide anything.
Sadly, Chris is.
What is all this "we" business Mary Sue? You were at Iowa while this was going down.
Didn't the investigation finally wrap up in '02-'03? She was president by then.
What does Brandon have to do this?
He became a Regent in 1998.
Will say this - Webber comes across as such an ass with the whole Ed Martin thing. He took money, lied about it, then tried to act like it was nothing. He never manned up and just take responsibility for it, and it kind of reaffirms the whole "immature front-runner" stigma people have attached to him throughout his career.
He had an opportunity to be a part of this, and he didn't. Speaks volumes imo.
Throwing Ed Martin under the bus after taking the money, that was the low point.
Ed Martin was the ass that was paying a poor teenager from the inter-city money. Martin knew the Webber family was not well off and how tempting gifts and money are to kids like Chris Webber. So many throw Webber under the bus and never think about the ramifications of being a poor teenager from the city. Sure he made a mistake when it comes to the letter of the law in the NCAA but to speak of Webber like he is a big asshole or the scum of the Earth is ridiculous when comparing him to the likes of the NCAA, the universities who profit off of these kids and the boosters who know how tempting money is to kids from poor backgrounds.
The NCAA is perhaps the most hypocritical organization in all of sports. They rake in millions of dollars from kids like Webber who play sports for their bottom line and give the players nothing in return. Then they condemn and wax on about how awful it was for poor, ghetto youth to accept large sums of money from adults. Meanwhile the NCAA and it's universities sit back and do everything in their power to maximize their profits thanks to these same kids whom they are willing to demonize.
Lets not pretend like Webber was the only kid that has ever taken money from boosters and then lied about it. What about some compassion for a kid who felt betrayed by an adult that he thought he could trust. People like Martin are parasites who feed on the temptations of poor kids from the ghetto. Unfortunately "friends of the program" like Martin aren't even the worst of those involved in college athletics. To me the worst of all are the NCAA and it's universities who continue to take in millions of dollars every year and demonize the Chris Webber's of the world who can barely afford dinner.
I hope Chris Webber never comes back or associates himself with the the University of Michigan for his own sake. He has become the fall guy for a situation in which he was preyed upon as a youth. The university and most of it's fans have criticized Webber to the highest degree and have no idea what it's like to walk in his shoes. Webber was a poor, inter-city kid that was preyed upon from an extremely young age yet no one mentions this. Great job U of M and other NCAA institutions for distancing yourself from poor young kids that have been paid while you continue to cash in on their talents. Continue to belittle athletes while you stuff all of that money in your pockets, seems not many are watching you.
Was not a poor inner city family that was not well off.
Dave Brandon wtf
Dave Brandon is exactly right by what he said in the documentary. All Chris Webber has to do is admit what he did and apologize for it. Hell, Pete Rose finally came clean a few years ago. I can't imagine how big of a weight this whole thing has been on his back over the years.
...and learn how to conduct a proper coaching search.
Bringing out the pimp-hand towards Webber.
Yo, come on Chirs! Though from what I know about him, I'm not sure it will happen....
Were to make sure we hired as crappy coaches as we could find.
If Bill Martin doesn't drag his feet in firing Ellerbee and lands Pitino, we're not talking about what this did to the program today.
There was no process.
The NCAA penalties were actually not all that bad.
We're still digging out. Here we are dazzled beyond belief with an Eight seed.
I love Jalen now more than ever. He is straight up no BS.
Jalen's been my favorite since reading Albom's Fab Five book. He was a stand up kid in ways beyond his years.
Well, I see why Webber didn't take part in this. I don't like the hate that alot of people put on him, but he should come clean.
Jalen, Juwan, Jimmy, & Ray are clean as far as the US District Attorney goes. So he may have violated a few minor NCAA regulations for spare change. He was smart enough to realize the difference between the NCAA (big whoop) and the US District Attorney.
CWebb has issues with the law. He may have reasons to lay low. Maybe the statue of limitations has run out, maybe it hasn't. I could see why he might not want to shake that hornets' nest.
C Webb isn't the only one to blame for the penalties that were imposed on the university. Quit placing all of the blame on Webber, that's bullshit.
Not like it matters anyways, I'm sure Webber doesn't care if anyone at our university thinks of him as dead anyways. He is a very successful person beyond Michigan athletics. He doesn't need a hypocritical university that made many more dollars off of him, than he ever was payed by Martin.
Michigan is part of the NCAA hypocrisy in this situation. Let's distance ourselves from a person who made mistakes when he was a young kid and was preyed upon by adults who should know better. That's very classy! Hey here's an idea, how about Webber comes clean when Michigan returns all of the money they made on the number 4 Michigan jerseys they sold in the Fab Five era. It's ridiculous how many people hate Chris Webber and fail to understand that they have no idea what it's like to be a dirt poor teenager who is offered this kind of money.
Albom brings up a extremely valid point. Very interesting.
Michigan didn't 'pay' anybody. Ed Martin did. And Ed Martin was doing it before they ever came to Michigan. The NCAA blamed Michigan for not knowing, and somehow allowing it. But Mitch Albom got as close to them as anyone could. And he didn't know.
The Michigan basketball scandal was spectacular because of who was involved and what they did. It was never a "Michigan cheating" scandal.
So, can Ed Martin please die a few more times?
Ed Martin was an Ed Martin Booster.
Martin was a "booster." I forget how he qualified. I think it had something to do with tickets. Fisher was putting Martin on the comp-ticket list. Maybe Perry Watson was too. And it was other hyper-technical shit like that.
But I hear you! Ed Martin was an "Ed Martin Booster."
It's tough to dismiss Ed Martin as some meddling outsider who was just throwing money at Detroit kids, some of which ended up at the University when you bring Bullock into the equation. The fact that Louis was getting money from Martin illustrates how close he had gotten to the program near the end of the Fisher's tenure.
Ed Martin was probably just an ancillary figure at the time of the Fab Five, but I think Webber opened the door for him to get closer to the program and set the stage for more egregious offenses to come.
Ed Martin was a cancer, that grew and metastisized. The Fab Five was not the beginning or the end of the Ed Martin debacle. And Bullock is proof.
There's no excusing Fisher or even Frieder. There's no way to say that Michigan was innocent. But this is clearly a case of one outsider coming in and taking advantage of a situation at Michigan. Not a case of a filthy Athletic Director, Athleitc Department, or coaching staff. We got hammered. We deserved to get hammered. It's just good, for every devoted Michigan fan, to understand what this story did, and did not, involve. Steve Fisher didn't cheat. Steve Fisher is guilty of not having known about other people in and near the program cheating.
We had about 30 or 35 scholarship basketball players in the "Ed Martin Era." (Not that the guy deserves an "era.") All but a handful were clean. If Jalen Rose was 'dirty' as a result of Ed Martin, he was about as dirty as Terelle Pryor is now.
Chris Webber, Louis Bullock, Robert Traylor, Maurice Taylor. Those kids were bad, and they were bad before they got to Michigan and apart from Michigan.
to the rescue.
Ray Jackson has a great point.
I totally agree with Albom that the claims of $100k plus money being given to Webber had to have been after he went pro. I once made $400/week when I was in school, and I played it up, so I'm fairly certain Webber would have been a little worse than me.
He just depended on it too much and didn't develop the skills enough.
Jalen is the man.
Howard comes across amazing in this film, so classy. King and RayRay as well. Jalen comes across as the mastro, which is his. CWebb... come back home brother.
They didn't take Ed Martin money. It was Webber; and later Bullock and Traylor.
I really am not sure what to think of Steve Fisher right now...
i have zero respect for the guy. he turned a blind eye to obvious "goings on". maybe he didn't know about webber, but rumors were swirling about later players. and he allowed that atmosphere to fester.
And worse yet, he brought in Perry Watson as an assistant. Southwestern was the epicenter of dirty payments/favors/deals for PSL players.
I swear an oath; the day that happened, I said to my friends, "Ugh, this is not right."
for the dirty dealings that were going on before he arrived. Plus Ed Martin was a gym rat at St. Cecilia, which was the place to play if you had skills in Detroit. Pro players would come back there in the summers. Kids at other high schools were getting money from him. He had nothing to do with Traylor or Bullock, so stop looking there for some blame.
Not only was the Fab Five great trendsetters on the court and clearly evidenced today in college sports but the Ed Martin case shows what is still wrong. Michigan did the right thing to take the hit. Other schools (OSU are you listening?) need to step up when wrongs are made in College Sports.
Oh my. What a great film! ESPN did not disappoint.
this was fantastic.
When will it re air? Got fired from work today so went drinking and forgot about it.
Thanks in advance
1 Minute ESPN 2
Sorry for the job loss
ESPN2 right now.