[ed: excessive premium content redacted.]
Excellent Recruiting Article - Maximum Scholarship Limit Made Official, Among Other Things...
thank god...I needed some good news
thats alot of great news in there.
Wow. One hell of a post, and so many questions answered. +1000 to you, sir.
I hope the assertion that U of M can sign 28 players is right. Also, good news re: Hankins. FWIW, OSU apparently offered him a good while before they offered Sharif Floyd.*
*I get this from an OSU friend of mine whole follows their recruiting closely, so take it for what you think it's worth.
We can sign 28, but we can only give scholarships to 25 (NCAA annual limit), assuming we can't count early enrollees toward last year's scholarship count (which seems to be the case according to TomVH and Michigan compliance).
Come to think of it, it's pay article...Anyway, what would be the point, and I ask this as a real question (not a rhetorical one) of signing 28 guys if you could only give 25 of them scholarships? You'd have all 28 in the fold, so to speak, but wouldn't yet be sure that they'd all qualified academically?
It is basically a safety net against kids not qualifying academically. You count on some attrition between signing day and enrollment day and if you are still over the limit you have to tell a kid to look elsewhere or greyshirt.
Looking at last year, if we had been ready to sign 28 you still would have had the two DT's de-commit and Witty not qualify so you still are at 25 and using all of the scholarships you have at your disposal.
EE's are still allowed by the NCAA, nothing ever changed there. The problem was that if the Big Ten only allowed 25 period, there'd be no need to EE anyone, for class size sake.
Declaring a few EE's in the past would've allowed us to "sign" more than 25 - the 25 were the current class, the EE were the previous class. Again, a hard 25 limit doesn't "need" any EE's.
If the Big Ten is truly allowing us to sign 28, we can now EE 3 kids back to the last class, and therefore still meet this class' 25 limit of schollies.
that is the "news" here -- very encouraging for the class. Answers some of the questions many have been wondering about what's up.
I don't have a Rivals account, but the poster said we can "sign" 28 guys. This is not news. This is the same Big Ten limit that has always been there. If we are allowed to "enroll" 28 (which TomVH directly asked Michigan compliance about and they said "No") then there is cause for much celebration.
If the Big Ten has not instituted a rule preventing us from backdating recruits (counting EE's towards last year's class), then I'm excited, but that is not what the poster said and it contradicts reports from this blog's recruiting guru stating that we will only be able to enroll 25 players in this class.
and I didn't neg you FWIW, just trying to clarify for all...
The whole debate has been that the Big Ten added some new rule this year only allowing us to "sign", and potentially enroll 25. This would have been more restrictive to our conference than the SEC proposed limit of 28 LOIs. It would've also kept us from "making up ground" on unused schollies via the EE process.
This news, in essence, does say we can "enroll" 28. 25 this year, and 3 towards previous year as EE's.
We could have 30 "commits", but if we were only allowed to issue 25 LOIs things would have been much more scary (i.e. losing tons of kid's phone #s, telling them to go elsewhere, hoping they don't qualify, or not taking in a potentially higher rated recruit to avoid it, etc). This gives us more wiggle room.
I know what the debate has been about with respect to backdating recruits and counting EE's. The OP just made no mention of this and merely said we could sign 28 players, which is not news (the Big Ten allows you to sign 28 players to an LOI and has for a while now).
Like I said, I can't read the article. If it specifically says that EE's can still be counted toward last year's 25 scholarship limit, then I am excited. If it just says that we can sign 28 guys to an LOI (which is all the OP said), then there is nothing to see here at all.
In short, I will take your word for it and begin celebrating.
I read the article, sorry I can't post from it (see ensuing beating of OP & "redacted").
However, the part your off on IMO, (and God knows I've been off before when it comes to IMO's) is the 28 LOI's never having changed. The confusion this year has been about THAT very issue. Forget the "no" EE's, The rumor/issue was that the Big Ten HAD INDEED changed the LOI's to 25.
Problems with this are 2-fold. 1) It pretty much removes EE from the equation - no need, EE's were only counted back to get to the 25 number; if already there, no need. 2) If the attrition you pointed out occurs (non-qualify etc), you don't have anyone to fall back on to still get 25. This would've over time put the Big Ten at a disadvantage with likely smaller classes.
Again, I could be wrong, but I haven't read anything that ACTUALLY says the Big Ten outlawed EE back-signing. I HAVE seen a bunch of specualtion that way, which I think is people miscontruing "it" to be the change, when really it was the 25 limit rendering it a non-factor.
I have heard of no rumor about the Big Ten further limiting the number of players teams can sign to a LOI. Limiting teams to 28 LOI's is a fairly recent development and the Big Ten has been ahead of the curve with respect to policing the oversigning issue (the SEC passed a similar 28 LOI limitation just this year). Considering the number of offers the staff has outstanding, I can't imagine how a rumor like this would have had any traction (we are clearly attempting to sign more than 25 players to LOI's).
As others have posted here, no one has found any actual rule change with respect to the Big Ten and the backdating of EE recruits, but every recruiting site and the Michigan compliance office seem to be operating under the assumption that they will not be able to backdate recruits as an end-run around the annual 25 scholarship (not LOI) limit.
If people were confused about whether or not we could sign 28 players (with only 25 being able to actually enroll), that is fine, but the fact that we can is not news to me.
Purplestuff is right, the debate was never around how many LOI's could be accepted (that has been 28 for some time). It has always been about whether an early enrolee can count toward the previous years class.
The NCAA has a max limit of 25 recruits per class that can enrole at a school each Sept. In the past we could sign those 25, plus add any EE's to the previous class assuming the previous class was not the full 25.
Now, there seems to be a rule (in the Big Ten only) that says you can no longer count EE's toward the previous years class. This would mean that we can only have 25 players join the team out of this recruiting class regardless of whether any were EE's.
We can accept up to 28 LOI's, but come Sept. only 25 from this years class can come on board (this is what all the debate has been about).
Again, this is a big 10 rule, not an NCAA rule. Also, no one has ever actually seen or read this rule in any rule book, but that is what all the debate has been about. It has had nothing to do with the number of LOI's we could accept, that has not changed.
all the article said was that we can take 28 players in this recruiting class, it didn't specify how...and i really couldn't care less "how" as long as we get them.
i didnt read anywhere in the article where it says we can now enroll 28 by aug? nothing about signing back to last year.
i think we're still stuck.
I completely agree, I don't understand why there are so many people are saying that this solves our problems. As far as what the OP posted, this changes nothing.
Maybe there is something behind the paywall that is the reason for the celebration?
Thanks for clearing that up, and thanks to the OP for the seemingly great news!!
should not be posted as a diary piece. Hate to rain on the parade.
I wouldn't be surprised to see this taken down as it's a violation of site rules....
But it IS all good info
She is the cute.
I get that from random people in stores and restaurants all the time. But hearing it from an MGoBlogger is like getting told by someone whose opinion you know you can trust.
He's correct. I'm as happy as anyone to get the news, but Brian doesn't let people post pay stuff from Rivals/Scout.
There is a difference between posting a few nuggets (which I have done in the past w/o getting hammered) and posting basically the entire article.
A few things could be construed as a hook for the site, ie. you might go pay for their services to learn the rest of the information, while summarizing the complete article renders the service moot.
Giving a few tidbits doesn't get me in possible trouble with Brian.
it just surprises me that there are people who don't realize that posting pay content is generally considered a no-no. However, I'm sure MGo continues to grow.
Great post. They are saying the same thing over at hailvictors.com..I think our class is going to be just what the doctor ordered.
Rich Rod is a busy man flying all over the country. Say what you want about the man but I have no doubts that he wants to win more than any of us fans. For some reason I really want to see Rich Rod succeed on a more personal level than just being a biased fan. Don't get me wrong I want them to win because it will make me happy, but for all the crap the guys put up with I think he deserves to win.
I've become a big Rich Rodriguez fan. I see a really passionate guy who's run into some tough breaks but who has every intention of fighting past them.
I supported RichRod from the moment he was getting blasted by the media ( also known as when he was hired =/) but it wasn't until the pep-rally before the OSU game this year that I wanted him to succeed far past my own selfish reasons, I wanted him to succeed cause he is a nice guy, a great coach, and truly cares about U of M.
I wonder what's new with Big Tex?
Finding a way to land Beachum, Hanking, and Ash would be a hell of a foundation on the DL.
Furman and Parker would be sweet for our back 7.
What do people think about Grimes and Murphy? Since they're probably a package deal, would you rather have them, or Furman and Parker?
Furman and Parker in a heartbeat
How about DLine? Ash, Big Tex, or Hankins? Each has their pros and cons.
I think Hankins would be the best pick-up. I'm not an expert on these guys, but given the fact that Hankins is getting offered from all these big schools, he seems like the best one.
On pure athletic ability I would go with Big Tex anyday. In terms of being able to clog the middle and eat two defenders, Hankins. Ash would be a good get but I am concerned about his grades.
Given all of this I would take athletic ability over anything else.
I'm liking Ash. Every Pahokee player we've gotten has come right in and performed at a high level, regardless of ranking.
From everything I've seen, Furman is as much of a "must get" as you can be.
We NEED Furman more than any other recruit I can think of. It seems we are closing in on a lot of DB's and DT's, but what about the LB corps? Hawthorne is the only young guy I see as promising. After Ezeh, Leach and Mouton leave...who replaces them?
Fitz, who is struggling at the moment...
Hawthorne (He's slotted for Sam?)
Who is going to take control of the Mike and Will?
Someone recently posted that Bell has added enough weight to play Mike.
Also, I remember Gordon was a WR/LB recruit. Given the onslaught of WRs, I somehow feel like we'll be asking him to switch.
used up his eligibility after the 1975 season.
At Mike and Will, I think the young up and comers to watch out for are Isaiah Bell, Cameron Gordon, Kenny Demens, JB Fitzgerald,
Maybe Mike Jones puts on weight and moves inside from SLB, maybe Brandon Herron gets a look inside with Craig Roh locking down Quick.
This article is music to my ears...thanks for the post.
After the highlight video from yesterday I must be updated daily on our progress in acquiring Lucky Radley's services....
As an aside...perhaps this 28 info will stop 4 threads a day about "how will we sign all these guys" etc.
After all the bad news of late, it is refreshing to hear some good news. I did not see Big Tex mentioned, but I am assuming we're still going after him. Thanks for posting.
Probably one of the bost posts I have read in a while based off of positives and total information on recruiting. That is a big relief that we can sign 28 and RR is loving it, I'm sure. That brightened my day. Thank you, sir.
Now more people from other teams spend more time here than on their own sites. On the rare occasions I go to another site, its to learn. I supposed the envy continues.
But I would laugh my ASS of if Gholston bolted for Alabama. I'd be full off lil' bro schadenfreude for a month.
Is it possible to get a specific quote from the article with respect to our ability to count EE's against last year's 25 scholarship limit? Normally I wouldn't ask but since the cat appears to be out of the bag with respect to the article's content and since it would clear things up immensely, maybe somebody could post a sentence or two where this is covered.
because that's not what it says. Nothing has changed. The Big ten rule is still that you can sign 28 but only 25 can enroll. And EE's do not count back, they still count towards the current 25 enrollee limit. This is the same as has been reported.
This is what I thought all along, but figured if enough people were disagreeing/negging that I must have missed something behind the paywall. Thanks for clarifying things.
I'm not an expert so I wanted to stay out of this ... but ... in your version, did the B10 add a rule saying that backdating EEs is not allowed? Because, according the the other guys in this thread, the NCAA did not prohibit backdating the EE.
So, if the B10 lets us sign 28, what's stopping us from backdating three of them?
My understanding of the confusion was that the B10 rule only allowed us to SIGN 25, thereby effectively preventing us from backdating - if we can only sign 25, then what's the point of backdating? So, backdating wasn't actually prohibited, just made irrelvant.
Now we find out that the B10 allows us to sign 28, after all. But why can't we backdate 3 of them? Is that a new B10 rule?
they have done away with backdating of EE's. And yes it is different than the NCAA rules. I am no expert either just relaying that both sites are working under this assumption. Both have allegedly confirmed this with compliance, just like TomVH did.
So as it stands, UM can sign 28 in February but better shed three of those guys by September. That likely involves those three enrolling in January 2011.
This makes so little sense.
So basically you're saying the only thing that has changed from previous years is that the B10 no longer allows back dating.
And yet, the B10 will allow signing 28 and shedding 3 by September. How the hell does that promote their goals? If anything, it encourages shadyness.
very little makes sense about the rule. Not only does it not seem to accomplish their goals but it also puts the teams at a pretty decent disadvantage compared to other leagues.
And again, this understanding could be wrong as no one has ever posted the text of the actual rule, the rule number, or anything like that. But this is how the sites are reporting the situation as it stands today.
about the scholies. However, I was under the impression that this unstated rule limited LOI's to 25. If the article states that they can sign 28 to scholies, that is "news". If it says they offer 28 but only sign 25, then that's probably not "news".
The relevant question is whether there is or is not a new rule which eliminates early enrolls counting toward 2009. I have yet to see the rule. Allegedly, compliance has confirmed for Tom VH and Sam Webb.
But, I'm not buyin' that, especially given the numbers we're going after. Unless we expect that at least 2 or 3 current recruits are going to decommit.
The fact that Big Ten teams can sign 28 players to LOI's is actually a fairly recent LIMITATION. The SEC is just now implementing a similar rule this year. In the recent past, SEC teams regularly signed 30+ member classes knowing full well that a large chunk would not qualify so that they could still operate safely under the NCAA-wide 25 scholarship limit.
Now the Big Ten is apparently going a step further by prohibiting the backdating of scholarships so that pretty much under no circumstances can you enroll more than 25 scholarship players in a given year.
Signing a few more guys than you can/plan on enrolling is actually pretty standard practice, it just hasn't happened much here at Michigan because we have rarely had the full 25 scholarships available in recent recruiting years.
here you go...i should add this to the op:
"At this point it is mostly good news with remaining targets, which brings up the question of how many more spots will Michigan fill. Counting Adrian Witty, they have 23 prospects coming in either this January or June. It looks all but certain that they will go over the 25 number. The Big Ten allows them to over sign by three, so 28 is the absolute ceiling for this class."
To all of those saying that this was a great post:
The reason it's a great post is that all the information was basically paraphrased from a Rivals premium post. Apparently all you have to do to make a "great post" is take an entire article, paraphrase it, and spit it back out in your own words.
n. Vulgar Slang
An inept, foolish, or contemptible person.
You stay classy.
You did have it coming this time since the OP had already been scolded in the thread and apologized for not knowing better. FWIW, I did not neg you.
I just skimmed the thread. I saw a couple "great post" comments and that's what caused my post. I apologize for not reading all 48 posts prior to mine, but it doesn't change the general thrust of my post.
magnus is a what????
twenty-three commitments, five spots left, let's hear some guesses...
1) grimes, 2) furman, 3) hankins, 4) parker, 5) ash, 6) wilson...and we lose at least one.
I think most find this a good post because it is mostly positive news. Something almost everyone around here will probably appreciate these days...
heard that him and this henderson kid are a package deal.
Gholston lighting off to Alabama would be absolutely perfect. We would (probably) never have to play him, and Sparty would be down their most prized target. Oh, I hope it happens.
I'm still confused, here's the simplest way I can ask what I want to know. If someone has a definitive answer, I'd be very appreciative.
If we receive 28 letters of intent from kids this coming signing day and none of them fall to the wayside (grades/etc.), will all 28 of them be able to put on the pads and be members of the team or will only 25 of them be able to do that?
Neither I, nor anyone on this site has a definitive answer for you. I say that because all that has been thrown about is "I heard this" and "I heard that".
Even Tom VH has not seen it written. He spoke to a woman in compliance that said Big 10 schools can no longer count EE's toward the previous years class.
If this is the case, then the fact that you can accept 28 LOI's does not change the fact that only 25 can actually suit up in September. So regardless whether they come in Jan. or September, only 25 of the 28 can suit up (if this rule change has actually taken place).
My post may sound skeptical, and it is. I have not seen anyone here, or anywhewre else, link to a specific rule. We have only heard what someone told someone else. I find it very bizarre and considered a massive fail for the Big 10, that they would institute a new rule and not have any information about it anywhere.
Anyway, sorry I couldn't be more help, but at least now you know what the "rule" is if it actually changed.
Much appreciated. I was pretty sure that was the issue but I keep seeing 'great news' posts and 'nothing changed' posts and I was starting to think I'd missed the crux of the problem.
me too. I actually thought there was some "great news" as opposed to the "same old confusion" we have been suffering with since someone mentioned this insane rule.