Even NYT thinks Meyer is dirty
What is wrong with your dirty?
Where does the writer claim that Meyer is dirty? My damned computer isn't even working right. I searched, and it can't find the word dirty in the article.
There have been too many Meyer posts lately.
So even in the the morally bankrupt SEC, Meyer still managed to turn some heads. Impressive to say the least. I find it hilarious with the bible study bullshit too. Explains why God sent him to Ohio.
Again? I hate the guy as much as the next fan, but anyone other than Vandy complaining about morals in the SEC needs to grow up.
You do realize that something extremely immoral is going down at Vandy right now? Although it sounds like the school and football program are handling it exactly as I would hope any school would.
Yeah, I recognize the scandal is pretty bad for Vandy, but historically they seem like the one program in the conference largely immune to these issues. It is similar to how I view PSU in terms of one horrible scandal not completely invalidating a program that seems to be largely above major issues. But yeah, not the best timing.
but if we lose another game to him—which is likely to happen at least once if he stays there for as long as most OSU coaches have—I'm not looking forward to the endless whining by UM fans that he only won because he's a cheater.
Well see the way it works, is when your coach takes on an at risk kid who fails to turn his life around, your coach is still a good person for giving that kid a chance. When the opposing coach does it and it turns out poorly, it seems hypocritical to rip them to shreds.
I'm not really seeing evidence that a program that encouraged law breaking was run. 31 arrests over 5 years is data without context. Without football and the structure it brought, perhaps twice as many would have been arrested. Perhaps Meyer wasn't the greatest role model in the world and ran a loose ship, but it seems like the media is taking this too far unless they've managed to dig up something juicy.
Plus someone actually died here, using it to score moral highground points off a rival seems rather tasteless.
I agree with you but in Meyer's case the specific types of crimes by the top players is disturbing because at a certain level you have to let kids go. Urban seems to let morality go when the right decision might cost him a game or more.
Jenkins, the cornerback, eventually left Florida for North Alabama after Meyer’s successor, Will Muschamp, dismissed him from the team after marijuana arrests. Several months later, Jenkins spoke to The Orlando Sentinel about his dismissal.
“If Coach Meyer were still coaching, I’d still be playing for the Gators,” he was quoted as saying. “Coach Meyer knows what it takes to win.”
The quote by Jenkins pretty much tells us how it is with Meyer.
I mean, we have proof that he subverted the police department. Probably bought off all the local politicians too.
Tobias said Meyer visited the police department once to tell the officers not to give his players preferential treatment, which, Tobias added, was already the directive from police officials.
I don't get it
I know its the offseason, so naturally board material is going to be hard to come by. But we need to cut down on all the "OMG, URBAN MEYER" fluff that's been posted within the last few days. Makes us look desperate and like we're trying to find any way to bad-mouth Meyer that we can. Additionally, its just getting really old and its not presenting any new information. We all thought he was a scumbag when there was a thread about him yesterday, and I'm pretty sure our opinions haven't changed with this thread, either. Give us something new about Meyer or don't post anything about him at all.
(Insert typical post of "if you don't like the thread, don't comment on it" below)
I've just decided I'm gif bombing all of these threads until the season starts. They're all stupid.
No matter how many times I watch this it makes me nervous.
I wonder if the guy on the bike backed up so he wouldn't get any on him.
I didn't know the NY Times liked sports.
They like drama.
The NYT has an awful sports section.
I understand that he would have won the national title in his first year at OSU had there not been a bowl ban, but these Meyer posts have to stop. As an SEC coach he acted like an SEC coach. Why is that surprising?
None of these stories really affect OSU or Meyer now. We'll be fine regardles of what Meyer does or doesn't do.
Would have won a national title?! No.
They wouldn't have beaten Bama in the NC. NO CHANCE.
They would have played Notre Dame in the title game, and probably could have beaten them
This article is essentially a summary of information which is generally available from numerous other articles published since Urban Meyer decided to leave the friendly confines of Gainesville, so I think we're going to step in and say something at this point.
Unless someone finds something unique and substantive regarding the Meyer-Hernandez connection other than the fact that Urban happened to be the head coach at the time Aaron Hernandez came to Florida, and something which shows a deeper problem than the known questions surrounding Meyer's consistency when it came to punishments, the thread will very likely go. Say what you want here, but the next such thread comes down.
Seriously, every day a new Urban meyer thread. Can we get over him already?
And also in the "piling on," department, I don't like it, but when it infiltrates your own conference I think, we as indiviiduals, have a right to voice our opinions. OSU basically stated, non verbally, they were ok with their coaches being dirty as long as they won big time simply by hiring Tressel with his documented NCAA baggage while at YSU. He would not have even been considered for the Michigan job. All he did at OSU was ignore about 300 pages of documented cases of his players getting in trouble, often times with him very much aware and deciding to ignore the obvious. It appears they are setting themselves up from another future crash with this man. "It's ok Urb. Just don't lose any fb games," is their mission statetment it appears. ^I am certain many of you read the poll count for the dirtiest programs in every conference. While MSU won in the Big Ten, the writers stated something to the effect, "While OSU would appear to be the frontrunner for this dubious distinction in the Big Ten, we have to give MSU the nod simply for the number of violations," I honestly believe MSU has gone to great lengths to prevent these things from happening again since the Perles days, but OSU, on the other hand, has seen to make a concentrated effort in the opposite direction, and we all know their obvious justiification for taking this path because for them winning is all that matters, with how the hell you do it not even part of the equation.
Lemme say it like this:
1) Yes, you clearly do mean to pile on, OP. That's why you started a new thread about this.
2) I'm not sure what "even NYT" means exactly. They haven't defended him, have they? They aren't really loyal to him, are they? So I don't know why any more weight than usual is put into their opinion than anyone elses.
3) I'm just a grumpy coot tired of parroting this topic. We all know it. We all knew it before he was hired at OSU.
4) "you're", not "your".
"Urban is Dirty" is becoming the MGoBlog equivialent of RCMB's "Hoke is Fat."
Your a moran.
This isn't really specific to Meyer, but I found it interesting. This is a 2-year old piece from Sports Illustrated on explaining crime in college football. There is also a video at the end of the article. It also cites that Florida based players have a pretty high percentage with a criminal record. But, they also have liberal laws for open public records. I just found this interesting.
Is this that expose that got ripped apart by all the blogs?
Assuming that it is, I seem to remember SI uncovering (unknowning) that athletes actually get in legal trouble at a lower rate than the general student body. The raw numbers look really high just by virtue of how many football players there are, but once you put it into a sensible scale and compare to other male college students, football appeared to keep a lot of these guys out of trouble.
I don't know. I had never heard of this peice before. If so and you have some critiques of the article I'd be interesting in reading them if you don' t mind posting any.
If you go down to the second heading in this old Unverified Voracity [LINK] there's a mini round up of the posts around the blogosphere criticizing SI's poor understanding of statistics. The basic complaint (as I remember it) is that SI throws a bunch of numbers around without context (e.g., "look how shockingly high these numbers appear to be!"), that when put into the proper context (i.e., compared to arrest rates among non-athlete college students), show that football players (a population that is demographically already disproportionately more at risk - i.e., male, predominatly black, and many from low SES backgrounds) get arrested at a rate lower than their non-football playing college student counter-parts. SI essentially provided the raw numbers demostrating that football keeps a lot of these kids out of trouble but then argued the opposite because they didn't compare the players' numbers against anything.
That's at least how I remember it (at the very least, that's how I explained it when I used to use it as an example in teaching Intro Stats to undergrads).
Great, thanks for the link...I'll have a look.
For those who have not seen prior comments on the USA today article, you really need to read the evidence that Urban knew about a Hernandez assault, which may have been covered up to avoid any eligibility-threatening arrest.
"In a police report on the alleged bar assault, the pub's manager, Michael Taphorn, who had his ear drum broken by Hernandez, told investigators in 2007 he was trying to work out a financial settlement to keep the incident out of court.
Curiously, police said Taphorn was adamant about pressing charges when he first spoke to officers, but when police followed up with Taphorn, he told them "that he may request the charges be dropped," an investigator wrote in the supplemental report.
The investigator added: "Taphorn did state that he had been contacted by legal staff and coaches with UF and that they may be working on an agreement...
Police said Meyer was one of the first University of Florida staffers told about the punch, and Hernandez was never charged."
Meyer won’t be able to refer the prosecuting attorney to what his wife said on twitter when he is forced to testify in court about Hernandez’ violent behaviors.
So, if the universities general counsel wasn't involved in the matter in the 2007 bar fight incident and Taphorn (victim) said he was talking to the legal staff and coaches about a potential settlement, it certainly sounds like any settlement was handled by the football program. I think someone in the football program should address that.
if the comment above that you are responding to remains suppressed
Do people really think they're going to subpoena Urban Meyer?
1. Urban is noted in the link to have been informed about Hernandez' assault
2. He should have inside knowledgeof Hernandez' other violent behaviors
3. An attorney will gain a lot of publicity for himself if he calls Urban as a witness or even seeks a deposition from him
I even wonder if the kind of "coverup" implied in the article would itself be an offense requring independent investigation. Weren't there questions raised about whether JoPa would be included in an investigation of a coverup for Sandusky?
I am not an expert and would appreciate an opinion if there are any lawyers on this board.
For those who previously asked just how Meyer was an enabler, this link is very much that. I understand the need to be PC, but if this story has truth it will spell a lot of trouble for Ohio. This is very relevant. Not sure why it is labeled trolling.... Mgoblog NSA???????
The only real difference is some bold text. It might be seen as trolling by some. Others might find it to be redundant or overrated.
To call a USAToday link and article excerpt as "trolling" is completely ridiculous. Granted, some duplicative material from another thread is present but it was added as explanation only after (or while) the post was being negged as "trolling". It was added because the comments of many posters in this thread suggested they did not read the other post or the link provided here.
fans I was with last weekend were convinced things spiraled out of control on Meyer. But it wouldn't be that hard to do some year-to=year comparisons with other college programs; if the arrest rate at UF was more or less on a par with other programs (big programs? SEC programs?) that too would be news. Forty of 121 kids in one football class, 33%, seems very high. But because it could be wildly anomalous, you've got to widen the perspective a little.
Does suggest that Tebow covered, quite literally, a multitude of sins.
Were there any red flags about Hernandez when he was in high school that should have kept Meyer from recruiting him (I'm genuinely asking; I'm not up on Hernandez' background)? Because if not, then I don't think it's fair to pin this on Meyer.
He was no more than 16 at the time of the offer (17 when he attended Fla). Reportedly, the offer was rescinded.
His father died when he was 16 years old and people have said he was involved in gangs in Bristol, CT after his father passed away. I know a guy who was friends with Aaron's father before he passed away and he says his parents were good people and they were from a middle class family, but after his father passed away Aaron was never the same and started getting into trouble. That's all coming from a 3rd party so take it with a grain of salt.
"involved in gangs in Bristol, CT"
Bristol sits right between Waterbury and Hartford both of which have a gang presence including MS13, Los Solidos, Latin Kings, and a number of others. If you don't think the surrounding areas of Bristol don't have gang life I question if you've ever been there. To an outsider you might think Connecticut is full of yuppies, I did before I lived there. But there are a number of high crime rate areas such as Hartford, Waterbury, New Haven, and Bridgeport and the areas surrounding these cities. Bristol sits right between two of them.
I'm from Connecticut. Even from one of your "high crime areas" - New Haven. I lived there for the first 18 years of my life.
I'm aware of the street crime in New Haven, Hartford, Bridgeport.
The idea that Bristol CT has a gang is completely fucking hysterical.
That said, he also had no actual arrests at Fla. But the USA today link suggests that at least one assaut was covered up. And serious questions also remain about whether he was involved in the yet unsolved shooting in Gainsville.
You don't need to be in a gang to commit criminal acts. I guess that's what I'd say.
I'm mostly laughing at the idea that bucolic Bristol, CT is the home of gangs.
So, just to clarify your stance, you are saying there is a high crime rate in Hartford, but you don't think there are gangs there? Or are you saying you know there are gangs in Hartford and Waterbury, but you just don't think it stretches to Bristol? Don't you think gangs, Hernandez, or anyone else for that matter can make the 15 mile drive from Hartford to Bristol or in the other direction to Waterbury?
I lived in New Haven and/or Hamden for 5 years myself. Being in that area you should you should know. Even small towns nearby like Torrington have gang presence.
Perhaps your statement needs clarifying. You said he was in gangs in Bristol, Connecticut. Now you're discussing gangs in Hartford. Which is not Bristol. It's like saying somewhat is involved in gangs in White Plains, NY, when you actually mean the Bronx.
If you live in Bristol and are part of a gang that is based in another town, how would you describe it? And, does my post require that level of detail to get the gist of the message? I said at the end of my post that the information came from a 3rd party so take it with a grain of salt. A guy I worked with knew Aaron Hernandez's father and I am re-stating what he told me. Although that is not specific to whether or not gangs are in Bristol or if it's just that people from Bristol are involved in gangs that are based in the surrounding areas, I figured the specifics are not important to the theme of the post. And because I said to take the information with a grain of salt I assumed the board would give a little latitude on the specifics and focus on the theme of the post which is that Hernandez is not from a bad place, but got involved with bad people as a result of his struggles at least in part to deal with the death of his father. This is one of the frustrating things about the board…that some not all people want to pick apart everything you say. Your point is irrelevant and that level of detail is unnecessary and distracts from the thread's discussion.
I was merely quibbling with a comment that I thought silly. I apologize that by "a gang in Bristol, CT" you did not mean that. My belaboring the point was more out of amusement of your assumption that I knew nothing about the state of Connecticut.
How do you define "gangs in _____" (insert city name here)? Is one member of a gang that lives in city enough, two, three, or does there need to be some meeting place or shared ownership building of the gang in the city limits to qualify that statement as accurate in your mind? To some people having gang members that live in your town and attend the schools would certainly constitute "gangs in _____". If you really want to argue the specifics of "gangs in Bristol" I believe you can find evidence of it enough to support such a statement even under such scrutiny.
But, you're still engaging in a discourse that is irrelevant to the post and distracting from the thread's topic.
Hernandez' future crimes but whether he knew about actual crimes--and possibly coverups of them--under his Urban's own watch in Fla. Coverups, as we saw with JoPa and Penn St, are not legal.
Likewise, suppose that Urban even just knew about the possible crimes, but not the coverups, and kept Hernandez eligible with no arrest or suspension. He then enabled Hernandez not only to continue to commit unpunished offenses but also to influence other team members, much like one gang member influences others. And many others on Urban's team were indeed later involved in crimes.
Well, UF/ Meyer will probably be named in a lawsuit by the family of Oden. UF will settle, but it would be interesting if Meyer has to give statements/testify.
I believe the reason why Meyer is being pounded on is not only is he a cheater but also good. The combination means the possibility of continued OSU football domination. The only thing worse then a bad guy is a bad guy who gets away with it. Unfortunately, the way college atheletics is set up the bad guys are getting away and will continue to prosper. Meyer is certainly no worse then a Calapari who will compete for several more NCAA championships and probably win a few more while being adored by the UK fans who only care about winning.
We are all baggng Meyer because we all see the freight train coming. It would be one thing if Meyer cheated and was just bad. But he really is a very good football coach who in my opinion is inovative and a visionary. I think we still have a shot in head to head games with OSU as long as Mattison is there. We are getting good defensive recruits and Mattison has proven he is 2nd to none in scheme and getting the most out of his players. Then again we must ask if Meyer is such a crook, why would a stand up guy like Mattison work for him?
when the opportunity to do so arose.
Also note that it is not just "we" who criticize Meyer but also many who do not have teams competing with him. Articles criticizing Meyer's in relation to Hernandez have arleady appeared in:many legitimate media outlets—from the Wall St Journal, to the Orlando Sentinel to the Tampa Tribune to Sports Illustrated to the Boston Globe and Boston Herald ,
Perhaps, as you say, Meyer is a focus because he has won in the past, but you can win by violating principles that others will not. If Meyer had booted players who committed crimes off the team--and if a Fla booster/lawyer had not been invovled in preventing arrests--then Meyer would have lost many of his best players---and it was these guys, not Meyer, who won games on the field.
FYI for anyone interested this topic is being discussed on ESPN Radio show SVP & Russillo on Monday at 1:30 PM EST.