I'm terrified we'll fire Borges...and hire somebody worse (yes, they exist).
"You know how Kyle Flood still has a job? Yeah, all Jourdan."
I'm terrified we'll fire Borges...and hire somebody worse (yes, they exist).
Who? EDSBS might say Pease, I'd take my chances at this point.
No way is Hoke gone this year. Not after a 70-3 loss to OSU, not after a loss in the Little Caesar's Pizza Bowl vs a MAC school. Brandon isn't going to admit failure that quickly, and obviously he has more insight into the program than anyone here. He can see things we can't, and if he has reason to believe things are moving in the right direction, invisible as they may be to the naked eye, I have to take his word for it. I'm no Hoke apologist, I was never convinced he was a great hire, I just think it would be insane to install a revolving door at Schembechler Hall. I too see some alarming trends, but hey, you've picked your guy, you have to at least let him field a team of his own seasoned players before you render final judgment.
I do think all bets are off with Borges, Funk, and Wellman, however.
We're goiing to beat OSU.
You sir, deserve a raise
An awesome psychic that is always right
More delusional than psychic, but I'd rather think positively than give up on the game before the first practice,
You sound like my nine year old. Saturday urban Meyer will smash us into pieces and that stadium will be full of red clothed, annoying Ohio people that laugh in our faces again. It's time you wake up. It's been too long and nothing's changing. You don't lose to sub par teams in a low tier conference than just wake up one day and beat an elite football team because of some magical rivalry. It's not happening. I'll be there and I'll scream and support the team but in the end I'll close my eyes and walk away like I have almost every time we've played them in the last decade. This is our reality. A lower tier team in a bad conference that gets spat on by it's rivals. You wanna change? Demand one.
Really? You want to give me a hard time for being optimistic?
I'm sorry. I wanna win too. I hope we win. Hey we're going to win! Everything's fine! I'll stop posting on here and shut up and in five years we can beat michigan state again and them we will beat OSU and everything will be great. Sorry, I have nothing to be upset about. I'll just cheer for my average team.
From speculators lips to God's eyes.
I do not want Hoke fired. At least not yet. But even in the situation where he does get fired, James Franklin is probably the first guy I'd want DB to pick up the phone and call. He's taken a traditional scrub Vanderbilt team / SEC doormat and turned them into winners. Even in the games they lose, they're competitive with everyone outside of Alabama. He's a high energy guy who knows how to motivate his players, and I've heard he's a good recruiter. He must be if he's bringing talent into Vanderbilt.
If that doesn't work, I'm okay with pulling the Les Miles card again and seeing what happens there. I doubt he'd want to come, but we might as well try. I just want someone to come in here and win. Someone that can come in here and beat OSU. I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say that I'm tired of being their fucking doormat.
Would not be a terrible idea at all. I really like what Franklin's doing at Vandy. With that said, I want Hoke to get ONE MORE year... With no Borges...
Franklin can get recruits because its SEC. He cant get those same players here.
It's still Vandy.
I agree. I get angry and post things that are...the opposite of that during the liveblogs, but I don't think Hoke can or should go at this point. I've definitely lost a good bit of faith in Hoke over the last three months, but I think he can be a good coach here in the long run. He has a Rich Rodriguez problem, however. I'm not sure what the dynamic he has with Al is, but I certainly am under the impression that he spends most of his time on the defense and probably leaves the offense to its own devices.
Can that work? Of course. But it bit Rodriguez badly, and it may prove costly for Hoke. This situation isn't entirely analogous to Rich Rod's, of course. Hoke exerts more influence on our offense than I think Rodriuez did on our defense (we can argue about the details, hypothetical person who disagrees), and I think that to the extent Hoke is involved with the offense, he is a negative influence. Hoke has made it abundantly clear that he does not tolerate the spread (which I think is a silly, stupid position to stake out, but if you're angling to be the knee-jerk rebound coach at Michigan post-Rodriguez, it makes sense. Or he's just a little dumb...neither is especially reassuring). I think in being so blindly dedicated to MANBALL, Hoke is limiting our options and it's costing us.
Ultimately, if Hoke can get rid of Borges and bring in an offensive staff that shows at least reasonable improvement next year, I'll be happy with 9-4 if we don't shit the bed offensively like we have this year. Can we go 9-4 with Borges next year? Sure. But my faith in him is shot; I'm willing to give Brady time but Borges is a problem. Not the only problem, but a big one. Someone can argue that Funk and Gardner and youth are also problems, but I think that those problems can get better. So long as we have Borges, however, I think we'll be saying, "wait until next year, then we'll really see what we've got." And I'm not sure I can deal with that.
...he'd probably still be coaching here.
The problem was exactly the opposite. Even though he didn't know very much about that side of the ball, he insisted on dictating scheme and staff to his DC, even to the point of meeting with the position coaches to gameplan behind Shafer's back for the '08 Purdue game.
Can you imagine Hoke holding a meeting with Funk and Hecklinski and Jackson to come up with a game plan, then effectively taking the headset from Borges? That's not a matter of "details", that's 180 degrees from what you've described.
If Hoke's fired, does new coach keep GMatt? Would he stay? It's not worth that potential loss. Fire Al B Sure and perhaps Funk and let's move on. Do it before bowl game. Hecklinski calls the plays in the bowl game. Evaluate him and other candidates.
I love GMatt but he's not the be all end all. if the situation arises (and I'd love to have him around) there are DCs looking for a change or pay raise out there that would step in and do just fine. I like him but I don't think his staying or leaving should be part of the calculus in the HC decision.
Would Mattison be interested in sticking around if there's a new coach.
He seems to have a loyalty to Brady Hoke. It's one of the main reasons he returned to Michigan.
Between the Fort and the loyalty M has with Hoke and Hike has with Borges this is just a dream from an average M Go fan. Nothing else (sadly :( ).
Make a call to gruden. I doubt he would want to coach college but hey couldn't hurt to talk to him.
It only took this long for someone to say Gruden. Please explain to me why Gruden would want to coach college football when
1. He hasnt been a college coach in 20 years
2. He makes 5 million from espn now
Why Does any coach want to coach anywhere?
Miles will coach Dallas if they fail again this year. I HOPE he comes home but would be shocked if he were to leave the south as hes very established there and Carr hates him and wil prevent it as will DB who said "over his dead body" referring to Miles. So unless the trustees jettison DB then itll never happen.
When did DB say "over his dead body" regarding Miles? and why?
A quote from the book that I found particularly insightful was something to the effect that the head coaches at schools like Michigan, Alabama and Texas are the spiritual leaders at those schools. I believe that is the essense of the current situation. Hoke does not have the gravitas to be regarded in that manner!
I have commented before that I think Hoke seems like a really great guy, but he does not command the respect that a Bo, Saban, and Meyer. Those personalities are bigger than just a coach. They transcend the position.
got the 'Michigan Man' they deserve. I hope they are miserable people today.
This is what people wanted. Michigan will have a hard time digging out of this hole. I still don't see Hoke getting rid of Borges. Screw everything.
I, for one, am ecstatic knowing that we will never go 3-9 or 5-7 again.
Les knows he'll not have another chance at a NC with LSU. If he left for Michigan, Urban wold be the only one standing in his way. An easy non-conference and conference schedule. Much easier to go undefeated here then at LSU again!
and go out with me.
All this baseless speculation would be laughable if it weren't so sad to see a fanbase grasp at straws like so many in here insist upon doing.
Guys, Brandon is a former Michigan football player, and he is intimately involved in football program. He, of all people, knows EXACTLY what the issues with the program are at this point. He knew what they were before he hired Hoke, and he knew that the effects of the lack luster recruiting would eventually rear up and bite the program. As such, there is NO WAY IN HELL that Hoke's seat is even warm at the moment. Brandon knows that 62% of the players on roster are 1st or 2nd year players, and that 2013 was bound to be a struggle.
As he's been quoted saying, this season -- even with all its offensive issues -- is a few plays away from being a 10-1 season. EVERYONE inside the program knew with out a shadow of a doubt that the 2013 season was likely going to be toughest due to the lack of depth and experience on the OL. Brandon have known about the OL issues since the day he took over the AD's position, and hoke has known since the day he was hired. It's not a mystery why the offense is struggling and why is seems like the QB is regressing. That's why Hoke went out and recruited so many OL in the 2012 and 2013 classes.
Starting true freshmen OL is NEVER a formula for success, and Michigan is doing it because there is NOBODY else on the roster. But they'll be a year older, stronger, and have more experience next year and every year after. Today's pain and struggles will result in future success and joy. Brandon knows this, and as such, I think there is no chance Hoke is going anywhere. Borges and Funk might be fired, but I think the chances of that happening are very slim. I think Jackson retires, that's about it.
He sounds like a staee fan. "We were ten points away from being 10-2, but we didn't get the lucky bounce so we're 6-6." He made a bad hire now he has to deal with it.
Two things. Your avatar is really obnoxious, and make me want to smack that snarky, sarcastic smirk of your face, sorry to say.
Hoke is not a "bad hire." Hoke was hired to bring the Michigan football program up from the lowest point in its 120+ year history. You don't dig yourself out of a hole like that with one shovel load of dirt. It takes time and recruiting, and Hoke's first real class are part of that 62% of the roster that are 1st or 2nd year players. 2013 was always going the worst year of the rebuilding process due to it being that "lag year" in which the bulk of the OL talent was going to be too young and inexperienced to really contribute, but some of them were going to have to because of a lack of depth. Accept it for what it is, understand why it is happening, and move on -- it WILL get better in the very near future.
You're an idiot an that's not a picture of me. Have a nice thanksgiving.
And It is a bad hire. The guy didn't even have a winning record. It was a project and the project failed. You wanna defend being mediocre go for it. Saturday when we get smashed it will be on you and the people that support being irrelevant and a home to our rivals.
Hoke brought BALL FUKKING STATE into the top 20. Then he brought SDSU into relevancy. The losing record is meaningless, it really is.
The losing record is particularly meaningless because Hoke has a winning record at Michigan.
Is everyone OK?
That almost became flap jacks. I was surprised by the ND game though! 3-5 in the B1G is not good!
He could have lost ever game this season and still had an overall winning record at Michigan.
No one is defending this years performance you nitwit.
When you speak about Hoke not having a winning record it displays your ignorance for all to see. He took over a Ball State, a program that was a perenial failure, and lead them to a 12-1 season, a conference Championship, and national ranking. Similarly at SDSU, he lead a basement dweller to a competitive program. Hell, he put a scare into Michigan in the Big House with lowly Ball State. His record reflect a coach that can rebuild programs, which is what he was hired to do at Michigan. You want to crucify him for initially losing at losing programs, yet give him no credit whatsoever for turning them around. That, is idiocy.
Saturday is on me? Are you serious?!? Get a grip man! Michigan was irrelevant before Hoke, remember? Hoke was hired to make Michigan relevant again, remember? But, for people like you, he's not doing it fast enough, so he should be fired, and the coaching revolving door should be installed -- which, if you've not noticed, is a sure fire way to insure that your program remains IRRELEVANT for a while longer.
The project HAS NOT FAILED because the project has a time horizon of longer than three seasons. YOU are the not the one that sets the timing of the rebuild because YOU know nothing about the cycles of college football. A depleted roster, which was the ultimate problem at Michigan, CANNOT be rebuilt in three (really two) recruiting classes. I tried numerous times to detail the "roster issues" but you and your ilk just keep going with the, "excuses...bullshit..." responses. It's NOT bullshit, it's what makes or breaks a college football program.
First you must recruit talent, Hoke is doing that. Secondly, you must RETAIN top talent, and redshirt as many players as possible, Hoke is doing that. That is all we know so far because Hoke's oldest full class are RS Freshmen. Remember 62% of the players on the roster ... ah fuck it, you're not going to listen anyway, and you'll come back with MORE snark and attacks.
"He took over a Ball State, a program that was a perenial failure,"
Ball St. all time winning %: 52.6
Brady Hoke at Ball St: 43.5%
Ball St. winning % coach before Hoke: 41.1%
"and lead them to a 12-1 season"
"a conference Championship"
They lost the conference championship game.
"and national ranking. "
Ball State was not ranked in the final AP or Coaches poll.
So you're saying that 2008-2010 is worse than '34-'35-'36? When we went 1-7, 4-4, and 1-7?
When we were shut out eleven times?
When our cumulative score against MSU was 13-62?
When our cumulative score against Minnesota was 0-100?
When our cumulative score against Ohio State was 0-93?
I have no problem with defending Hoke, and it would be dumb to say that the RR years weren't extremely disappointing.
However, the constant reference to 2008-2010 as the worst years in Michigan football history is nothing less than ignorance of that history.
Sorry Don, I should have said, "up from the lowest point since leather helmets were retired." Please excuse my ignorance of those miserable seasons of '34, '35, and '36 -- they wre just so bad that I blocked them from my memory...Sheesh!
Enough with this youth bullshit, we have played beyond horrible, i dont think i have seen a team play so disoriented and so discombobulated ever. A high school team will do a better job, yes some its youth related but the issues are deeper than that and it starts wit coaching and development.
That's because you've never seen a team with the OL depth/talent/experience issues that Team 134 has. These seeds were sown several years ago, and Michigan is having to reap what was sown, no matter how bitter. Thankfully, however, new seeds (and a lot of them) were sown in Hoke's first real class, and in the 2013 class. Those seeds are going to take some time to flower, but we're already seeing some fruits with a true freshman and a RS freshmen starting on the OL. That is so exceedingly rare that when someone calls it "bullshit" or an "excuse" it shows just how little they actually understand about the game of football, and what it takes to build a winning program.
Are you still supportive of Borges, Funk & Jackson? I also dont want to see anything happen to Hoke but I think those three should be replaced immediately after the season and my fear is Hoke won't.
I'm curious to see if you, Reader71, The Last Hoke & SC are still in the "keep the staff intact" camp and if so, why? (I already Brown Bear wants everybody back) What do you see that makes you think the quality of play calling and overally coaching from our current assistants merits keeping them in tack one more year.
Before I answer let me say this. I think that changing anyone on the coaching staff (unless they move voluntarily) ALWAYS carries some risks. Further, I think that in the case of rebuilding program (which I think Michigan most emphatically is) continuity of the staff plays a SIGNIFICANT role in the rebuilding effort. How much, that isn't really quantifyable, but it plays enough of a role, IMO, that any change should be undertaken with great trepidation.
Now, there is NO DOUBT in my mind that this season's offensive performance is totally unacceptable. I think Borges knows that he's failed miserably, and that Hoke is not happy with how the offense has performed. That being said, however, I think that Hokes knows that Borges' job is SEVERELY handicapped by near complete inability of the OL to block anything effectively. It's obvious to me that the reason that Borges seems to call the same plays over and over is because those are the ONLY plays that the OL can block with any semblence of quality. I really don't think us fans can understand just how difficult Borges' job has been this season.
However, just because his job has been difficult, doesn't mean that I think he should keep his job. I agree with many of Borges' detractors that he just seems to have a very weird, almost schizophrenic play calling personality. Personally, I think he's lost his edge and gotten "yips" as a play caller. I am not sure that I blame him as what he's been asked to do in since at Michigan is totaly out of his comfort zone. In hindsight, I think what would have been best is to hire a spread OC for the first two seasons, and then bring in a new OC this season when the transitiion to a power scheme is to be made. So, given Borges' age, and the fact that I think these past three seasons have messed with his head, I think he should be let go.
I think Funk is well respected and will prove out to be a very good OL coach, and I think it's time for Jackson to retire. If Hoke comes in an cleans house, it is obvious that he thinks the issue is coaching and although youth is a factor, it could have been overcome by a better staff. If he keeps everyone (which I think is likely) I think he thinks that continuity at this point is more important, and that the youth factor is so significant as to be the ultimate cause of all the offensive struggles.