they presumably mean "the first 4 games of the season, and then the Michigan game."
ESPN reports 5 tOSU players will be suspended for 5 games in 2011
That would be a great Christmas present.
dantonio just peed himself.
He would need to understand the concept of player discipline first.
These violations are much worse than players putting on ski masks and assaulting other students
The University of Tatoo $tate. Maybe put " I paid for all my tats " on the back.
Looks like Lil brother MSU, will benefit from the suspension as well. OSU vs MSU 5th game of next year
|Sat, Sep 03||Akron||Columbus, Ohio||TBA|
|Sat, Sep 10||Toledo||Columbus, Ohio||TBA|
|Sat, Sep 17||Miami (Fla.)||at Miami, Fla.||TBA|
|Sat, Sep 24||Colorado||Columbus, Ohio||TBA|
|Sat, Oct 01||Michigan State *||Columbus, Ohio||TBA|
I before E, except after C.
...and except for in the names of basketball coaches fond of the 3-ball.
MSU playing tOSU without Pryor, Posey, and Herron is a WIN - WIN as a Michigan fan.
Scenario One: MSU wins. This, by extension, means OSU loses. They could have two loses by week five next year. I will not lose any sleep there.
Scenario Two: MSU loses. This takes a "respectable loss" for MSU off the table - you HAVE to beat them when they are without their three best players. Watching Sparty implode ahead of M game = priceless.
Why would anyone root against OSU in that game? For Michigan to get into the Big Ten Championship game we'd want the teams in our division to lose. Use your head.
It will take more than the creation of divisions to erase my instinctive hatred for Ohio State and my utter inability to root for them under any circumstances. If tOSU played the Taliban, I would put on a turban for the game.
ANY circumstances!! No Herbstreit here, all Spielman. I want OSU 0-11 when they come visit the Big House
But I don't hope to back into championship games. "Who are they to think they can beat a Michigan team?"
Win our games and the rest takes care of itself.
I move that all the "Little Brother" stuff be shelved until at least the next time we beat MSU. It's just becoming annoying at this point.
Shouldn't osu be on probation for Tressell failing to promote an atmosphere of compliance?
they're appealing the suspensions. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5950873.
I would love to hear you make a case for this. Please, go on. This I must hear. Actually, nevermind. Some HERP DERP about Maurice Clarett is unnecessary and, frankly, I'll save you from looking silly. The program had nothing to do with these clowns selling their shit. It was wrong and they'll be punished for it (as they should be). I'm just glad that Ohio State has the dignity to admit it when something happens and then work with the NCAA to resolve it. Hell, it's a model program in that respect (and, let it be clear, so is Michigan - they worked with the NCAA to resolve their petty issues too).
FWIW, I actually don't really give a shit about the players suspended. Posey will probably go pro (and would have anyway), Adams has consistently been in the dog house, Thomas is a relative non-contributor, and Herron is going to get surpassed by the half dozen 4 and 5 star RBs behind him. Hell, no Pryor just means that we might see Braxton Miller sooner.
You sound kind of angry man. Glad you aren't letting this get to you as you have proved. I will let the crack journalists at the Freep Creep HQ prove my case.
Me: <Eating lunch, browsing MGoBlog> Well, that wasn't so bad. Let's see what the guys who can't sellout their first bowl game in 3 years have to say.
You: WHAAAAAAARGARRRRBLE NON COMPLIANCE LACK OF INSTITUTIONAL CONTROL
Me: <slapping forehead> Goddammit, why can I not just let people wallow in their own stupidity. <types response>
You should have told me the drama club at osu was performing their yearly play. I would have been in attendence.
You make a good point that OSU didn't sell the items. USC didn't hook up Reggie Bush with a sport's marketing group either.
The new law of the NCAA was loud and clear after USC's sanctions: you are responsible for heightened scrutiny of the activities of your high profile players. Under that standard, it is not at all obsurd to question why a failure to promote atmosphere of compliance investigation isn't happening here.
Not saying I think Ohio State did anything wrong, just as I really don't think USC did either. But the standard is the standard.
A good point, but I would argue that USC got slammed because Pete Carrol allowed agents to hang out in the locker room, at practice, on the sidelines...pretty much wherever they wanted. If Jim Tressel is allowing sports memorabilia guys to hang out in the locker room and at practice, then I agree with you. However, I don't think this is the case. In principle, however, you are correct. I just disagree with the comparison.
assholes be blockin my sales
I like how the guys were getting rid of everything, lock, stock, and barrel. Sportsmanship Award? Yeah, don't need that. B10 Championship rings? Meh. Jerseys? Gold pants? Dumb tradition anyways.
its more like, a few randos saying lack of control, while the majority of us saying: What, that is total bullshit and ridiculous. [redacted for grammar and lack of support of my statement]. Why doesn't the NCAA do something more with seemingly obvious offenses that are more of a gameday/recruiting advantage over other schools? But...I'll take it. PEACE.
... with these suspensions. They are sort of meaningless. The NCAA has no spine whatsoever. The logic being used to say they should be suspended 5 games next year is that they didn't know the rules so we shouldn't suspend them this year.
1) If they didn't know the rules that's failure at the institutional level and should be punished via institutional sanctions not player punishments.
2) If they didn't know the rules this year, why delay the suspension? How is suspending them next year any different than this year.
My gripe here is with the NCAA -- this is definitely a system issue just as much as it is a TP being TP issue.
Yeah, I'm kind of looking at it that way. I don't see the logic here. However, listening to the radio jerks here was interesting; Demetrius Stanley (you remember him, right?) pointed out that while it may be clear that you can't sell what is perceived as 'school property' (e.g. jerseys) it may not be clear to some athletes that you can't sell your own property. That is, why can't I sell my Big Ten championship ring (which is my own property) but I can sell, say, my CD player. The distinction seems clear to me (one is derived from your athletic pursuits and you're supposed to be an amateur), but I can see how somebody would not understand that (and, let's be honest, very few college football players are Alfred Einsteins).
So I can see how the school could argue that "we didn't make it clear enough". Especially when this happened last November; if it happened after the AJ Green thing, that would be a hard row to hoe (since it should be very clear to everyone by now). That's not the case.
They were arguing that "it's not fair to the fans or sugar bowl or seniors or jesus to hold them out of a game at the last minute"...that's bullshit. Either suspend them or don't. The rationale of not suspending them for the Sugar Bowl is pretty thin.
would someone ever neg this post?
For the sole purpose of making you mad.
Sadly, very few people know about Albert's brother Alfred. Played QB in the 30's -- in fact, he was so good, he won the Bob Heisman Trophy and the Marvin Camp Award. Dumb as a post, though . . . .
Simple really...the NCAA refuses to punish their current golden goose. UM BBall, USC, OSU (not relavent in the BCS Championship this year) etc. while Auburn had a shot @ a heisman winner and a BCS championship so therefore their rules are different.
them for the bowl game ratings.
This just in, the NCAA has been put on double secret probation for failing to promote an atmosphere of compliance, with 2 extra years added on for first-degree coddling.
Not sure who Alfred Einstein is or how bright he is. Was he Albert Einsteins younger brother who only managed to get a B.S. degree?
I need to use the sarcasm tag more liberally.
for any reason whatsoever.
The sarcasm tag is to humor what "Hey Soul Sister" is to awesome music.
I love that song!
Don't worry--some of us got it.
Who was Mozart's biographer?
This is what happens when you listen to classical music all day instead of 97.1
I agree with almost everything you said, and I certainly don't think this falls under lack of institutional control, but basically what happened is OSU dove in front of the bullet for these players and are coming out of it with no harm.
I think if OSU wants to say that the players weren't educated so they deserve a reduced punishment, then fine. But on the flip side, that means the school didn't educate them properly and should be held accountable in some way.
In the end though, this is all silly, and is only really an issue because Pryor is involved. That and sorry, but it's nice to see some havoc in Columbus every now and then.
The logic is impeccable, but you forgot that the NCAA would really like to just see these players leave college.
In addition to the suspension, there are repayments involved:
Pryor must repay $2,500 for selling his 2008 Big Ten championship ring, a 2009 Fiesta Bowl sportsmanship award and his 2008 Gold Pants, a gift from the university for players on a team that beats arch-rival Michigan.
Herron must repay $1,150 for selling his football jersey, pants and shoes for $1,000 and receiving discounted services worth $150.
Posey must repay $1,250 for selling his 2008 Big Ten championship ring for $1,200 and receiving discounted services worth $50.
Adams must repay $1,000 for selling his 2008 Big Ten championship ring.
Thomas must repay $1,505 for selling his 2008 Big Ten championship ring for $1,000, his 2008 Gold Pants for $350 and receiving discounted services worth $155.
"These are significant penalties based on findings and information provided by the university," Kevin Lennon, NCAA vice president of academic and membership affairs, said in a statement.
Selling "gold pants"? Before even graduating? Is that what their honor is worth?
Your university already has made it for us:
"We were not as explicit with our student-athlete education as we should have been in the 2007-08 and 2008-09 academic years regarding the sale of apparel, awards and gifts issued by the athletics department," Smith said in a statement. "We began to significantly improve our education in November of 2009 to address these issues. After going through this experience, we will further enhance our education for all our student-athletes as we move forward."
"We as coaches feel the buck stops here," Tressel said at the news conference. "We're the ones who need to make things even more crystal clear."
So, these guys seem to think the program had something to do with it. Not that I don't agree with you that even "petty issues" can lead to full-blown, expensive investigations under the NCAA's byzantine rules and enforcement scheme -- as we know all too well around here.
you kind of miss the point. the athletic director said "We were not as explicit with our student-athlete education as we should have been in the 2007-08 and 2008-09 academic years regarding the sale of apparel, awards and gifts issued by the athletics department,"
he kind of admitted to failing to promote an atmosphere of compliance. if one kid does it then you don't worry about the atmposhere because the atmosphere probably didn't influence one kid. but when six break the rule, it shows that the university failed to properly instruct the kids as to the rules. i.e. failed to promote an atmosphere of compliance.
Your reading is overbroad. OSU actually does take compliance pretty seriously. They built a 10' fence around the Woody Hayes practice facility to keep agents and boosters out of the area. They require basketball players to live in a specific dorm on campus to reduce the chances that bookies or whoever can try and approach a player. They do tons of workshops on compliance, so I don't think it's a failure to promote compliance or an atmosphere of non-compliance.
I think Not a Blue Fan has it right when he thinks that the compliance office didn't get into the details of whether individual awards and rings can be sold, or whether they are technically university property, etc.
I agree that they should be suspended, and that the suspension should include the bowl game. The one good thing about the Sugar Bowl is that if the players have a strong performance, it might push them into going pro rather than coming back. Pryor, I'm looking at you.
Yor a clown. You all wearin makeup and dancing around with a funny red nose goin ohheywhattypeofballoonanimalyouwant and I'm all running with a football scoring touchdowns like a real ass Buckeye you justafakeass Buckeye but your in luck because Buckeyes get 20% with coupon code Bucknuts ok
This was just stupid shit, by a very few players. Handled appropriately by OSU. This is not a strike against Tressell. There's no competitive advantage, no competitive impact, nothing with grades or academics, no big money involved, no recruiting impact.
Player suspensions are the right punishment. Five games actually sounds pretty harsh to me, but that's based only on my limited info.
Here's one thing about this that I don't like. Reading 11Warriors yesterday, Pryor was swearing a blue streak (just a phrase I picked out of thin air) "that [he] paid for [his] tattoos." Pryor sounded angry; indignant. Maybe Pryor has a defense. Maybe Pryor is a huge liar. I'll give him the presumption of innocence through his appeal process and a chance to be heard.
One other thing. This all came out of an IRS investigation of the Tattoo artist, as far as I know. That artist may be claiming to agents, that he didn't get cash payment for lots of work, so no taxes are owing. (Or that he did work in trade for autographed paraphernalia, which has a lower value than what the IRS now claims is subject to a tax liability. In any event, there's bound to be a motivated witness against the players.
TP may very well have paid for his tattoos. Nowhere in the write-up does it say he has to repay money from discounted benefits, it lists items he sold. Looks like he got suspended just for selling his gear and rings.
Frankly I think it's ridiculous. It's almost half a season that these players have to miss. For getting something that they couldn't sell or share, via barter instead of a payment. Using nothing more than their signature.
I get that it's a violation, and no one needs to lecture me about a slippery slope. But for god's sake, five games? When at other schools you can physically assault someone and hardly miss a thing?
I think they are getting a raw deal. And while I thoroughly dislike OSU, I can't celebrate them getting nailed for this, not to this degree.
The guy who only bartered his signature for a tattoo is suspended only one game. That is the lesser offence. The rest are being suspended an additional 4 games for selling their awards for cash.
Actually agree with much of what this guy says. This is some petty bullshit, it could have happened anywhere, and is not on the head coach.
Not so sure I would be as quick to dismiss the prior contributions of TP and Herron, however. Those guys are a big part of why tOSU has been to three straight BCS games.
true freshman quarterbacks=DOOM. Your silver lining on Pryor will be throwing boneheaded interceptions and running a Playskool offense. Of course your defense will be stout as always so the damage will be minimal, but today is a day for Buckeye tears, not for looking on the bright side.
The OSU AD admitted that they failed to educate their players properly about this, but the players still should have known right from wrong. The reason the school is guilty is because they allow a culture on non-compliance (see all the secondary violations they've racked up over the years). It was never proven, but we all remember the smoke around Pryor's recruitment with the Corvette. Do you think he ever thought that receiving money or gifts for his celebrity was wrong?
Dude, If you are coming to MGoBlog to find allies and comforting words, you have come to the wrong place. The NCAA ruling is what it is and when it is all said and done, the University is who always gets the blackeye. The fact of the matter is, Pryor has not made many good decisions on and off the field since he has been at Ohio State. You can make all the excuses you want about the players, but in the end the University always suffers with the bad press.
Have fun with that whole freshman quarterback thing. We know from experience that it isn't always such fun times.
They should be suspended for the bowl game since that is technically in 2011. Then the first 4 games of 2011 season, so that msu doesn't benefit.
Pryor sold his 2009 Fiesta Bowl Sportsmanship Award. The irony...
You put me in ANY other Bowl game and I would have earned two Sportsmanship awards and sold them for WAY more
god damn son you be dominatin this Mgosite like charlie weis dominates a big mac
Part of me is struck by the stark unfairness in how much money in TV revenue the Big Ten brought in from TP et al.'s efforts in playing in the Fiesta Bowl, etc., while the players themselves are scraping by, selling the meager tchotchke's they receive as their split of the spoils. Sure, they get an education for free and a shot at NFL riches, but these are benefits that pay off (if at all) in the long run, while the conference gets its $$$ upfront.
They sold the Gold Pants!
On the one hand, you're a broke college student and broke college students sell anything -- books, plasma, sperm, I will go no further but let's just say I knew fellow students who were "exotic dancers" in my time -- so this is totally not out of the ordinary. On the other hand, it is so easy to trace back to them and having overheard David Moosman on the 36 bus to campus one day telling freshman they absolutely must not take offers of free sides at QuickieBurger because that's extra benefits, how could they have not known this was a problem?
You put my sperm in any reproductive system - any of them - and they'll dominate. They'll dominate the nation's women.
Man, this is a good thread for you. And you haven't even resorted to the "everybody murders" trope yet, at least as far as I've been reading.
Oh hell, another + 1 to you.
The exotic dancers you knew were likely trying to pay their way through college, these kids are already having that done for them. The necessities are covered for them, there's no NEED to go sell every other thing to try and make a few extra bucks. I entirely understand why that may be appealing, but it's just not the same as a kid trying to work their way through college.
And just to be clear, I'm as big of a believer as anyone in paying these kids extra and that they deserve a piece of that NCAA pie.
One was trying to pay off a bunch of tickets including reckless driving without daddy finding out. Everyone can have these unbudgeted expenses aside from tuition and room and board. I'm not trying to moralize on the actions or the reasons for them, just the stupidity of doing something so easily traced back.
Of these exotic dancers or it didn't happen.
told the story of how he kept his gold pants even after he became coach at Michigan. They were special to him.
starting left tackle.
i bet a lot of these guys just go the NFL now.
why come back for 1/2 a season and 0 chance of a Heisman, 0 chance National Championship probably no rose bowl either - if these guys are that hardup for money they should probably go pro.
national championship. I think that OSU can still win those games without the 5 suspended players.
It's actually a really interesting question for Pryor. On the one hand, he'll have at least 8, if not 9 (assuming they win the Legionnaire's Disease Division or whatever it's called) games to prove himself, but I almost wonder what more he could demonstrate to pro scouts that he hasn't already demonstrated.
I mean, I think he's convincingly demonstrated that he can't be a pocket passer, so that leaves gimmick QB, which I think it's pretty clear he could pull off. If he's going to be drafted as a TE or WR, then he certainly won't display that in games 6-14 of 2011.
Balance all that against the probability of injury, and I think you've got a pretty convincing case for him to go pro. I guess the looming lockout will, um, loom large.
If he stays, when he does come back there will be timing issues, snap issues...think of all of your typical first game crap going on mid-season....other teams will eat that up. Pryor has a tendency to crack at times anyway...just imagine this added frustration.
He will make a fine TE for someone. Could go to the Eagles and be the new front man for the dog fighting on the local scene.
I actually think this has a bigger impact on Posey and Adams not coming back next year. Both those guys have the insane measurables to move on to the next level and it really serves them no purpose to sit out 5 games (assuming the suspensions hold) and "prove themselves" when they've essentially peaked at the college level. Why sit on your hands for 5 games when you could get paid in the NFL. Their draft status won't improve next year, so why not bolt now?
TP is a different story though. I know he's said he's coming back next year, but that was before this. His draft status can still increase. However, if he has a phenomenal bowl game and his draft status goes to Everest, then there is no reason for him to stay.
Wow. Justice has been served!
Time to jump to the NFL?
I can see Rosenberg's next article here:
"Justice [Hayes] has been served. Rodriguez suspected of providing alcohol to minors being recruited by UM. Alcohol and major NCAA recruiting violations alleged."
TP is way too smart to do something like this. Heard him talk before, or seen his writing?
I heard he did research to find out how much each of his awards would go for.
lol someone PLEASE setup a mock website that prices certain awards ala wizard for comics or blahblahblah for baseball cards.
At least they get to play in the bowl game...because it's not like the offense took place during this season...
In the end it's not the end of the world that they don't get suspended for the bowl, but good lord. Can there be anymore evidence that the NCAA only cares about making money on the bowls than suspending deserving offenders?
the fiesta bowl would have a cow if the ncaa damaged their product.
So would the Sugar Bowl.
While college football isn't a business, televising college football is.
Bowl Ratings = Ad Rates = $$$
Without going too indepth into the media planning at the Disney•ESPN Media Networks, here's the short version: If projected ratings don't equal actual ratings, then the rate charged for ads won't have the media penetration promised and the network has to provide "makegoods," which are essentially free ads at a later date, which is your future inventory that you now cannot sell... if you have less things to sell because you had to give some of your things away for free = you make less money. That goes for the local affiliates too, which have a slice of the minutes/hour to sell as local inventory ... you know, the terrible car dealership and lawn equipment ads that are specific to your city.
So there's lots of pissed off people, the sponsors, the network, the conference, the fans who traveled to the game, the local affiliates... but not so much the advertisers, because they negotiated a rate based on eyeballs on the TV. If the eyeballs aren't there for the Sugar Bowl, that's alright, they'll get 'em later during a college basketball game in mid-January.
So they let them play this year and avoid upsetting the apple cart. Then next year, ESPN can schedule around the OSU games no one is going to watch and the ad rates are protected. Everyone is happy!
Let's be honest, less people were going to watch a Sugar Bowl missing Terrelle Pryor and the Swag-Sellers™ gang, right?
I absolutely love college football, but all this NCAA (Cam Newton) and BCS (Sugar Bowl) nonsense is embarrassing and corrupt. It's all about the money, and you can tattoo that on your arm, because it's a fact.
The players are eligibile for the bowl game because the NCAA determined they did not receive adequate rules education during the time period the violations occurred, Lennon said.
So because OSU did a bad job educating their players, they get rewarded by getting to play in the bowl game as opposed to a less impactful/profitable game next year? Ridiculous.
the same quote.
That makes no sense. What's the real reason?
the sugar bowl said "no way!" is my guess
They went to the NCAA and said it is our fault because the kids didn't know it was wrong. As a result, the NCAA was able to give the players a very weak punishment.
have nice feet?
"We were not as explicit with our student-athlete education as we should have been in the 2007-08 and 2008-09 academic years regarding the sale of apparel, awards and gifts issued by the athletics department," Ohio State athletic director Gene Smith said in a statement. "We began to significantly improve our education in November of 2009 to address these issues. After going through this experience, we will further enhance our education for all our student-athletes as we move forward."
I would expect the OSU AD to at least be able to say "DON'T DO IT", but I guess I underestimated their (already low) intelligence.
so they knew it was a problem? why did they go about "improving" their education in 11/09? very weird.
Let's play the hypothetical game.
The Buckeyes weren't taught the rules, so they shouldn't be suspended for the bowl. Fine. I'll act like I buy that.
Then why should they be suspended for 5 games next year? Isn't it one or the other?
Yes. If they really weren't taught the rules, then they shouldn't be punished. If they were taught the rules, they should be punished immediately. Punishing them 9 months later makes absolutely no sense.
The delay is almost certainly because the BCS and whichever bowl they're in would have lost its shit if the suspensions were immediate, and it somehow affected ticket sales.
It's because they are playing an SEC team and since none of them follows the rules as it is, OSU gets a waiver for the Sugar Bowl.
so long as it doesn't hurt bowl profits.
Don't they fail to educate their players in general? *rimshot*
Lack of Institutional control.
The NCAA ruled on the punishment for the players...Im sure there will be more regarding the program to come.
Adam Rittenberg wrote that this will be the end of it, and that there's no talk of punishing the program. I'm guessing that's because OSU self-reported and fully cooperated with the NCAA.
Was his suspension not immediate after they found out he sold his jersey?
Translation: We're the NCAA, we are the most hypocritical and ass backwards organization in the country. We don't want to lose money on the Sugar Bowl because Bauserman had to start.
AJ Green was but it was for the beginning of the year so he would also only miss a few cupcakes and only a couple of meaningful games. He was able to return for the meat of their SEC schedule.
Bauserman starting would be fun to watch...
Haven't you heard? Our defense is a little weak this season.
They really sold their Big Ten Championship rings??? Must not be a big deal to win one of those rings these days!!! TP also sold his 2009 Fiesta Bowl sportsmanship award. Wow!!
we wished this kid came to U-M?
maybe he was a good kid in High School, but look what playing for that school down south has done to him.
OSU's won 6 big ten titles in a row. Not saying it's not a bid deal, but when you've got a few of those rings lying around, maybe getting rid of one doesn't seem like a big deal.
Most of these guys are gonna go pro now.
Exactly. And it gives Pryor an out for his comments earlier about staying for his senior year. Hoorah!
Pryor's high school coach, Ray Reitz, told ESPN's Joe Schad that said Pryor sold items because "he wanted to help his mother."
"It was about family," Reitz said. "Sometimes when you're young you don't realize the ramifications."
Yes and Reggie Bush also helped his family.
It ranks right up there with "I made a bad decision."
Yet had enough money to spend a thousand-plus on the tattoos he's got. that's not cheap work on his forearm.
...comes early for Michigan State, who happens to be Ohio State's fifth opponent next year.
Looks like we should have let the B10 put is at the beginning of OSU's schedule!
Terrelle Pryor...no reason for him to come back for 7 games.
I like where your head is at. No bowl for you, OSU!
Goodbye Heisman! Not that he was getting it anyway (year of Shoelace), but it's fun to say.
Oh wait, rules violations help you get a Heisman? Crap...
That's pretty much 3 years of no OSU for MSU.
that fierce rival game with Indiana.
Is it just me or does Pryor only really dominate in stupidity?
If this is true, which it seems to be now, it looks like they have a fair chance of being 3-2 after the 5 game suspension depending on the strength of MSU and Miami (FL).
|Sat, Sep 03||Akron||Columbus, Ohio||TBA|
|Sat, Sep 10||Toledo||Columbus, Ohio||TBA|
|Sat, Sep 17||Miami (Fla.)||at Miami, Fla.||TBA|
|Sat, Sep 24||Colorado||Columbus, Ohio||TBA|
|Sat, Oct 01||Michigan State *||Columbus, Ohio||TBA|
their first game back is @Nebraska. They don't exactly have a cupcake for the first game back so they can knock the rust off.
I thought that would be included in the suspension
I paid for my tattoos.
Man...... everybody sells stuff. Should be classic.
So much for Pryor's Tweet @TPeezy2 "I paid for my tattoos. Go Bucks." What a loser.
Can someone be prosecuted for purgery on Twitter? He should at least lose his account for lying, right?
He might have paid for the tattoos. It's just that he sold his stuff to do so.
I now see the distinction. So he really is technically correct in his simple statement. I was trying to read the "fruit from the poisonous tree" doctrine into the statement (i.e. money improperly obtained poisons all future transactions).
(I can't believe Tressel allows Pryor to tweet about this things. In fact, I can't believe he allows him to tweet at all.)
Nothing good was going to come of that tweet. So, you're technically correct, good for you, but you're still in trouble.
...he meant the stick-on ones you get in gum ball machines.
could be he "paid" for them with his illegal money from selling his sportsmanship award. this isn't as bad as the Cam Newton deal, but's way more ridiculous.
OSU first five games in 2011...
Akron, Toledo, At miami (YTM), Colorado, and Michigan state.
Hasn't been this fun to watch in a while. Tressel's got boobsweat under his vest I just know it.
to prove Terrelle Pryor is an idiot...hilarious
i want to know who is going to monitor how pryor is going to come up with $3750.
I generally agree in the thought that it's kind of fun for bad things to happen to OSU, but this comes off as complete bull shit as far as I'm concerned. This is completely messed up on two levels (that I've thought of so far).
1. These guys gets suspended for almost half of a season for selling their awards and jerseys? A, the University makes a crap load of money selling shirts that acknowledge those awards and even more on replicas of the jerseys that people only want to buy because the work those guys put in put value on certain numbers on the jersey. I agree that the players get lots of benefits out of being student-athletes, but how in any possible way does the punishment fit the crime? It's so disproportionate that it blows my mind. There's no competitive or recruiting advantage at all here. It's insane. Cam Newton's family can violate a written NCAA rule with a monetary value that is literally almost 100 times higher than the values in this case, and he gets no punishment. Unreal.
2. If you throw out every argument I had in point one and think the suspension is deserved, how does it make a lick of sense for them to be able to play in the bowl game? Why does LSU's starting running back with the academic violation have to sit out the bowl game? Why can't he just miss whatever Sun Belt foe LSU faces next year? The quoted logic in the link is nonsensical.
Seriously, I think the BCS schools should honestly consider just leaving the NCAA. They are voluntary members and stuff like this is so nonsensical that they should just save their money and do it themselves.
Because selling shit that people only want to buy because you're a famous college athlete is profiting off of one's athletic status and doesn't fit in with the idea of being an amateur?
I think there's a distinction between profiting off of your amateur status and getting paid directly for your performance when posing as an amateur. They shouldn't have done it because it's pretty explicitly against the rules, but that doesn't mean I can't question the rule.
agrees with you . . . .
and the line is basically impossible to draw. Under your reasoning, college athletes should totally be allowed to appear in tv commercials and other ads in exchange for money, which would make the whole "don't pay student athletes" thing hilariously easy to circumvent. Instead of offering Cam Newton's dad $180,000 in a duffel bag, they just could have offered Cam Newton $180,000 to appear in a commercial for a local car dealership.
You make a good point regarding the Newton situation. I can respect that.
I don't know, maybe I'm naive and simple minded to some extent, but every situation is different and there is an ultimate truth to it, whether or not it can really be determined. There is a difference between a booster walking up to a player and saying here's $3000 if you play for OSU and somebody going, "dude, I'll give you two grand for that ring!" It's just not the same and the intentions are different. Can it really be regulated any differently? Probably not, but that doesn't mean the two scenarios are identical.
Its interesting you say that a 5-game suspension does not fit the crime because my initial reaction is that those kids should have to sit an entire season. Harsher penalties are the only way these kinds of things are going to stop. The competitor in Pryor, for example, will probably make him regret what he did but its not like he's not going to be part of the team during those 5 weeks. He'll be practicing, studying film, and generally making himself a better player in preparation for the NFL. In my opinion, a 5-game suspension is almost a soft landing.
i think that 5 games is pretty tough, but one of them should be the bowl game. Conveniently, the toughest game out of OSU's next six is the one that the players can participate in.
the Sugar Bowl is a big money game for ABC/ESPN.
Because OSU screwed up and didn't educate them=BS exuse.
Because it didn't give them a competitive advantage=It might have if they spent the money on something to make themselves better football players like supplements instead of tattoos.
I guess I just disagree. I look at what happened, and it just doesn't seem like a 40% of your season offense.
Clarett leads them to a national title only to get suspended the next season and eventually booted off campus.
Troy Smith wins the Heisman after being suspended for taking money from a booster.
Does anyone else see a pattern here?
I see the pattern.
Why stick around for the senior year if you aren't going to play? We all know he isn't going to be utilizing his education from the University of Ohio State anyways.
Was AJ Green's suspension 4 or 5 games?
Edit: It was 4
It's a Festivus miracle.
A holiday for the rest of us.
One grievenace I do not need to air tonight!
Damn You. You beat me to it. +1 sir. Happy Festivus everyone. lol
Pryor said, "See? I got way more for my ring than the other guys. It's like I've been saying; put me in an auction... Sotheby's, Ebay, ANY type of auction... and I'd dominate."
I wonder if the NCAA is going to say that Tressel promoted an atmosphere of noncompliance with NCAA rules?
Preach it, brother!
Quick survey - If Denard offered to sell you his 2011 Big Ten Champion ring for $1000, would you buy it or set him straight?
Set him straight and then have a talk with the coach.
It could not happen to a nicer group of Suckeyes!!!!
This time of year. I think I detect a hint of nutmeg.
The reasoning by the NCAA as to why they should be able to play in the bowl is absurd. Does anyone remember the Green situation in Georgia to start the year. You didn't hear the NCAA saying "we did a bad job of informing him of the rules regarding selling awards and gifts, so he will be suspended for some future period of time."
The bottom line is they committed violations, so they should be punished immediately like Green. Consistent much?
the same thing was said about Tim Tebow last year. I think TP is a late 1st rounder, just because of his potential.
whether you like him or not, didn't have attitude problems. Timmy boy seems as humble as Pryor seems arrogant. I think that's enough to explain 2 rounds difference between the two.
my favorite part of the espn release:
All of the players be eligible for the Jan. 4 Allstate Sugar Bowl, however.
was TP the copy editor for this story?
Justin Boren sold him some used candy wrapper foil as bulk scrap...
I'm going over to Eleven Warriors w/ some popcorn.
or belief that the game is bigger than the players, he would suspend these bozos for at least the first half of the bowl game. I think he should hold them out completely, but then he is giving the game away.
Good point. And the fact that tOSU has announced they will appeal the ncaa's ruling shows what kind of accountability they are displaying. None. Have fun rebuilding on offense as well as D next year Tressel. Braxton Miller is good, but he'll still be a true frosh.
What are the chances that Pryor jumps to the pros early now that half his senior season is down the drain? If the NFL labor lockout wasn't looming, I'd say the chances of that would be 100.0% Things as they are, the odds are somewhere less.
I don't think the lockout - if it even happens - is going to be the major deterrent people make it out to be. It probably won't last that long, and it won't prevent players from signing endorsement deals - they just can't sign with a team until it's over.
I hope he stays. He will be such a distraction being he can't keep his mouth shut. I think OSU would be better off if he just left and let Braxton Miller take over and take his lumps without TP to "mentor" him. Should be fun to watch regardless though.
If there's a lockout, can the owners bring in replacement players like when there's a strike? And if so, can they include rookies as replacements?
Why didn't Pryor just steal money? He should know that everyone steals from each other.
Boy, it sure is hard not to laugh at this kind of stuff. Karma is a b-tch, eh Pryor? If he would have just kept his mouth shut, played football, studied, and appeared to be a decent guy he could have avoided all of these kinds of comments. Open mouth, insert foot.
Don't worry, he'll manage to regain consciousness and return to his position as reigning Spartan Apologist to yell about why MSU lost to Alabama
unless, of course, it's a buckeye who's ignorant.
Is half-buying the "feed the family" bs excuse.
If this is OSU's fault for not educating their players, why wasn't this rampant in the early 2000s?
Sugar Bowl and BCS has a ridiculous stance on this. What a joke.
'cuz getting a free college education in Ohio isn't worth spit
"I would dominate the first five games of 2011. The other guys that aren't selling their stuff illegally, they are just doing what they are supposed to do. But if I wasn't suspended, I would dominate college football and the galaxy. Oh and I only care about winning, which I would do if I could play. Everybody sells their apparel and gets free tattoos, whatever."
Today's Real Winner: Rex and Michell Ryan.
Nothing like having another sports scandal to make everyone forget about yesterday's news.
Ill dominate it. Bc michell did what she was supposed to do. You put me in any video, where I can direct the shots and have a choice at a starring role, I would dominate the fetish industry.
I understand your need to make and sell fetish videos to help your family.
Why would they be allowed to play in the bowl? That makes no sense.
Your AD states they didn't educate the the student-sathletes well enough and that is the excuse they, you and the NCAA use as a reason for the 5-games in 2011, three of them are creampuffs anyway.
How in the hell do D-1 college football players NOT know that you can't sell/trade your merchandise for "free" or discounted services. It's pretty simple, as a student athlete you don't take anything as a "gift" or any discounts. Not exactly rocket science.
Punishing the individuals by suspending them for the bowl game is just because it has been happening for more than a year and they are part of the TEAM. Therefore the team suffers as well. They should of thought about that before going for the tats in the first place.
God forbid, OSU actually punish itself when something is actually on the line. Suspend Clarrett AFTER winning the championship, Troy Smith, etc. Are you really going to defend this?
Michigan's most egregious act was stretching too long or hell, practicing 20 minutes over? Please. The bullshit that Auburn, Alabama, LSU, USC and OSU have gotten away with over the years is ridiculous. No program is in line for sainthood, but the NCAA's "protection" for their product is laughable.
is that Pryor sold his sportsmanship award. what a poser
Gained a lot of respect for Herbstreit after hearing him rip into Pryor and making very good points in doing so.
They should have had their dad's sell the stuff.
Wishful thinking re Pryor. I can't see him going pro because of this. He's not, at this point, a top NFL prospect. He needs as much college experience as possible. He'd still have more than half a season to prove himself. He'd be stupid to jump now.
Then again, he is stupid. So.
as his NFL career could be at some other position than QB.
I don't know all the ncaa rules, but it's kind of ironic that the ncaa won't allow players to get free services because they're an athlete or sell their stuff, but they go to a bowl game and they get free goodies from the bowl game because they are an athlete. Shouldn't the ncaa put an end to the bowl games giving players free stuff?
But I would venture to say that for these guys missing 5 games will drive them to declare for the draft. I know your plethora of 4-5 star guys in the waiting are just going to continue the dominance (even though Herron was by FAR your best RB), and losing you start receivers in Sanzenbacher and Posey is no big deal but you're in for a rude awakening. This more or less decimates the offense to go along with a defense losing quite a bit. I appreciate your optimism and confidence in your team but I think you'll see what I mean in 2011.
So, Cam Newton can ask for 250,000 and he gets suspended for 2 days, and then the Ohio State players give their signature and sell personal property and get 5 games?
I hate Ohio State as much as the next guy, but this seems a little harsh
...is the case of the 2007 Music City Bowl when the huge academic cheating scandal broke at FSU and over 30 players were suspended for the bowl game. I know the violations are somewhat different, but the NCAA had no problem suspending players for the bowl game just days before it was played. I know it wasn't a BCS game and the nature of that scandal was different, but the suspensions were handled much differently than in OSU's case.
that immediately touched upon their eligibility
improper benefits is not so clear-cut and has loopholes like "paying back the amount gained"
God, Pryor is stupid. He gets hit with penalties and protests that he paid for the tattoos. The real issue is that he sold his OSU gear and trophies. He sold the gold pants.
Fans don't care about the tattoos, you buffoon.
the meme that it was for his family and makes it okay is horse shit. i'd put $100 cash on the fact he has PLENTY of luxury items (i.e. electronics) in his place of residence that he never resorted to selling to help his mom but 'magically' happened to sell these things that rely solely on his notoriety and high cash value. whatever.
Extended rest period gasping for air
Long akward silence with audible wheezing
A school girl. Street justice!
Nice double standards NCAA! Where the A's stand for double! - standard!
like a pre-game flyover. If I missed your real intent, I apologize, I'm just so sick and tired of the shenanagins being pulled by programs that ESPN touts as the "elite" and the NCAA turns a blind eye and deaf ear until it's so late in the game it's laughable and then barely slaps the hand or less of the offending parties.
The R.Bush fiasco and what seems to still be going on at USC as well as the stupid shit at Auburn gets me going when I see how "diligent" the NCAA was over the petty crap at Michigan.
Freeman, who seemed to burn the Lions' secondary repeatedly last weekend with those little shotput passes as he escaped the rush. I'm not saying Pryor is as good as Freeman, but I can envision a role in the NFL for him if he gets the proper training from a quality QB coach in the NFL.
Since he keeps getting the preseason B1G player of the year, but fails to live up to the hype and now he can't win the Heisman next season, he might as well jump to the NFL. Maybe he can back up Vick or follow McNabb to his final tour of the NFL to learn how to play QB. The defenses in the NFL will be able to keep up with him and he won't have the advantage he has had in college. Besides he won't have to sell anything to get more tats.
what i would like to know is how soon we can get another one of those sweet "motivational" posters made for this incident (much like the "DEFEAT" one with TP, tuOSU, and his 'everybody throws a pick, etc')??? would be a great Christmas present to get holiday break rolling!--
Click on the audio "The Herd with Colin Cowherd" next to the ESPN article. Wow, just wow.
Herbie says losing Pryor next year would be "addition by subtraction". He's a bit pissed. Some adversity in C-bus, this is awesome.
I wonder if the suspension includes all team activities....if it does and they cant practice that could kill the entire season for most of them. Do you think TP got up this morning, looked in the mirror, and thought 'Jackass'?
If they start Miller that will also waste a redshirt even if Pryor does stay. Wouldnt it be awesome if Miller was effective enough that TP didnt return to his starting role, not that I want to see them succeed...but it would be funny.
I'm speechless, too.
Please tell us more Mr. Pittman. We are all ears.
This tweet has been taken down now, but is legit. OSU has been playing ineligible players since '01. Michigan is undefeated against OSU this decade!!!
Stop dancing on the mine field tOSU.
I don't want to lose M's mortal enemy to some USC shit.
I do believe Christmas came early for me when I heard then news about TP and OSU.
.....another in a long, long line of infractions by cfb's "elite" that gets a simple slap on the wrist instead of real sanctions against them.
As for tOSU itself, and the implications for the program, at first I kind of felt sorry for the players who have to go through the suspensions that would seem to doom their season, but then I remember that it was they, themselves, that chose to go to that f***ed up school in the first place. F*** em'.
As for TP, this is just another example of why UM was actually lucky in not getting him. TP is proof of the "stupid athlete" caricature people believe, and being that he is associated with tOSU, that makes it all the better.
How's that domination thingy going TP?
Is there any chance that Pryor's mom set this up ala Cam Newton and Pryor himself had nothing to do with it? We could give a "you aren't allowed to attend games Momma Pryor penalty" so that he can go for the Heisman next year?
The NCAA is a joke.
Why on earth would the suspension wait until next season? Shouldn't it start now or is the NCAA thinking about its own $$$$? I guess maybe they want OSU to have time to appeal, but it seems ridiculous.
The NCAA report said it was because tOSU didn't do anything wrong. The violations didn't give them a competitive advantage so they didn't want to punish the school by making them miss the bowl game
How is it punishing OSU by having them suspended for a bowl game, but not punishing OSU by having them suspended for the MSU game (what would be the 5th game)?
Bowl Money is all I can think of.
Heck if I know, the NCAA makes it up as they go
I'll give you $350.
RT @Antoniopittman: This osu tattoo stuff is silly. Cats been gettin hookups on tatts since back in 01
It will be interesting to see how Pryor dominates college football from the bench!
[Full disclosure: I am a paranoid person]
Fact: Pryor has been playing at OSU for 3 years (since Sept. 2007).
OSU Says: The players were not educated that selling memorabilia was illegal until November 2009.
Reports suggest: These incidents took place as recently as January, 2009 (based on the report that Pryor sold his 2009 Fiesta Bowl sportsmanship award (yes, a bit of irony there).
Conspiracy theory: OSU discovers that players are selling memorabilia around November of 2009. They do not self-report but instead wish to sweep it under the rug. They immediately hold a seminar or something to tell players not to sell their Big Ten championship rings, etc... Then the tattoo scumbag gets busted and Pryor's memorabilia sales are communicated to the NCAA.
Basically, it sounds very suspicious to me that the alleged education from OSU officials did not take place for at least two years (at least since Pryor and the other juniors enrolled at OSU), and then the education was provided soon after the NCAA violations took place. After two years of not educating players about memorabilia sales, what was OSU's impetus for doing so in November of 2009?
is a great day,Will the 4 starters leave early for the draft,i hope so.GO BLUE!!!
Will the NCAA force sanctions upon the OSU athletic department for negligence in educating players about the rules regarding selling personal items?
This is what happens when you propose to your girlfriend and go away for a few hours.
Thank God Pryor did not come here. Give me a humble Denard any day of the week over this clown.
Get her ready for the Zombies bro.
I'm still planning to meet up with you when the outbreak happens.
... Leave it up to OSU to find a loophole. They get to play in the bowl game, because they were not informed that it was wrong when they did it? Come on.
It is the NCAA being hypocritical again $$$$$$$$$$$$
Bowl Game is more $$$$$$ than the 5th suspended game being MSU.
News Flash OSU just added YSU in August, sorry sparty you lose again. actually the tattoo atrist? is timeclock Bob.
I haven't kept up on the 6 pages of comments, BUT:
TP sold his gold pants? Seriously? Isn't ths the charm tOSU players get for beating MI? Anyone who really cares about the rivalry (growing up in OH, attending UM - I have an idea) knows these are a Big Fucking Deal. Everyone outside of OSU hates TP already, but selling your Gold pants? That will alienate your own fan base at tOSU.
Even if it wasn't a violation of NCAA rules, it is a very classless way for a premiere athlete at tOSU to behave. For anything less than charity, shame on him. Yet he embarrassed himself, and OSU, and all of that is funny. But he is kind of pissing on the significance of the rivalry, for the sake of paying for some tattoos. (speculation - I don't buy for a minute that he has been living his personal life to help his mom)
I hope he takes time off (whether waiting for the draft, or during his suspension) to reflect on what kind of person he would like to be). There are enough assholes out here already.
So apparently now all you have to do is plead ignorance and everything is forgiven. What a crock? The NCAA is a joke. The rules are apparently irrelevant and we should just start paying college players if this is the type of enforcement we can expect.
Just saw Tressel during the press conference liken the players selling their stuff to a player being told he shouldn't fumble the ball during a game, and then fumbling during a game. Really, Tressel? A fumble is never intentional. Selling your Gold Pants for $1000 takes planning and intent. If Tressel had any balls, he would put forth additional punishment, not try to get them off for less. It's insulting to the tradition, The Game, and to the rest of his team.
As a Michigan alumnus in Columbus - ha, ha! Ha! Period.
Howdy stranger. Haven't seen you around these parts in a while.
I know this has been discussed below but I have to think there's a pretty good chance Pryor goes now. He isn't a great NFL prospect but I don't think he'll be a significantly better one in a year, especially after missing five games.
.. what real life outside of the NCAA would be if the "I didn't know" defense worked.
"Ahem. Yes, I did steal that car AND kill that prostitute, but honestly sir, I just had no idea I was breaking rules by doing it!"
What a fucking crock of shit this is. I'm glad the NCAA's priorities (money over integrity) are in the right order. They get to play in the BCS bowl game, can make the jump to pro penalty free, and their services aren't likely to be needed when OSU takes the field against Little Sisters of the Poor and Blind throughout their first give games.
Michigan stretches 8-20 minutes extra a day, and we get 3 years of probation and have to give up some 130 hours of practice time. OSU players are essentially receiving money for being a football player (in a less direct manner, but the effect is the same), and the NCAA suspends them for 5 meaningless games.
Way to drop the ball on that one...
Fuck Ohio State, Fuck Pryor, and Fuck the NCAA for this. Everyone literally fucked up. And yes, I know that was a lot of fuck.
Edit: Also, their AD is going to appeal the decision and try to get the suspension cut down. I wonder if HE tells the NCAA that they didn't know they were breaking rules (in addition to the players saying the same) that they will get to weasel their way out of a punishment...
I'm not at all disappointed that it took something like this for OSU fans to realize that we've been right all along what a total shithead Pryor is. How shocking that Pryor doesn't give two shits about Tressel, Ohio State, Ohio State's fans, or his teammates. It's all about Terrelle, baby.
I am surprised, although not to any great degree, that other players are involved.
I was sort of going along with the NCAA reasoning with their rule combos...
But Pryor lying about the tattoos in a public statement on twitter is dishonesty about a rules violation. There is plenty of track record about that, and it all says he gets suspended for the season.
OSU players sell autographs for tats and get five game suspensions. Cam Newton's dad (and probably tacetly Cam), shops Newton's amateur status for $180,000 and he gets nothing.
Something's really wrong.
You're aware that they sold more than autographs for tats aren't you?
Wow. Totally missed it. But now that I see what they sold I think they should be sat for disloyalty alone. Or given five million sprints. That's ridiculous...