alternate headline: man does job
Per Espn--- Pistons fire Lawrence Frank
love those two.
If anything, Joe is a victim of his early success, when he made a couple of great trades to help build an NBA Championship team out of nothing. GM's started lowballing him, because they were afraid of being the next GM to be "posterized" by Joe Dumars.
Compounding the problem: no FA is going to choose to play in Detroit if he has nicer cities to play in. When it comes to free agents, the Pistons are a "fallback offer" in case they can't go where they really want to play. Consequently, the Pistons have to overpay for mediocre players just to fill out roster spots.
Whether you like Joe or not, he has been directly involved in all three NBA Championships the Pistons have ever won.
There was NO reason to sign both Gordon and Villaneuva to "boat anchor" contracts.
but some of this is Joe's fault. Michael Curry, Billups for Iverson, BG for 60 mil. These were intensely bad decisions that set the franchise back a good deal. Some of the heat Joe is getting is not deserving, but some of the decisions he has made are fireable offenses.
I agree with the rest, but I will still argue that Billups for Iverson was a great trade and a ballsy one, and Billups is one of my favorite Pistons ever (and I loathe Iverson). The problem wasn't that trade, but what Joe did with the cap space it created. It was a genius move followed by a series of terrible decisions that wasted all of the positives of that trade.
week he traded for cap space (aka Iverson) which meant he basically tied one hand behind his back immediately after freeing the other one. It made zero sense at the time and it showed Joe had no long term vision for the rebuild. Since 2008 he has basically been a disaster aside from getting lucky in the draft a couple times when Monroe and Drummond fell into his lap.
he tied the hand behind his back(Rip's hand actually) before freeing the other, assuring that Rip would be nice and disgruntled for the next 5 years. Rip was not signing to a rebuilding project when he signed that contract and that is what he ended up with 2 days later.
Apart from salary cap decisions? There have been a couple, but they are outweighed in my view by all of the terrible ones
It bugs me that people cant debate on this site sometimes because of downvotes when it isn't a trolling situation. It would be much better to state why they disagree.........
Why I disagree is the fact that your premise that GM's are scared of each other is way off. To be a GM you have to be completely confident and know your stuff. Every team has a different need that has to be addressed.
He has milked his past success beyond where he deserves to be a GM anymore. The only thing that would prohibit me from canning him is the lack of an obvious successor. NBA is way different than NFL for identifying the next great thing in the front office. When you monitor 300 athletes in the league vs almost 1000 there is a much smaller pool to draw from.
The way is the draft. Joe has sucked at the draft. He might of finally of done OK with last year but even Monroe is not getting a lot better than what he showed initially
There are only 4-5 sexy places to play. There are only so many max players those teams can sign. That is another excuse.
Tough to blame a coach when he is given nothing to work with.
Those are the two names I'd look at. However, we'll probably hire the 3rd assistant on the Memphis Grizzlies.
I'd also throw big time money at Andre Iguodala and do my best to draft Trey Burke.
But he wasn't well recieved by the young teams that he's coached.
We're clearly building through the draft, I just don't know if it's a good fit. Solid coach though.
Good point, but he always seems to get the most out of his team.
Someone below here mentioned Bill Laimbeer. Although I like the sound of that, he might fall into that same category of a coach that players might not like.
Which is why I feel Laimbeer would be solid in the NBA, just not in Detroit with THIS team. I think he would've been great with Billups, Prince, Wallace and co.
Laimbeer is a hard charger. A team of vets would not of received his leadership well IMO.
The young guys need it.
You can always judge a coach on the effort and attitude of the team. Frank failed
Hey guys! That one legendary guy we've all heard about that has never committed a typo: THIS IS HIM! On OUR board!
This is from your history of posting.
Iguodala has a player option worth 15 million, I highly doubt he opts out.
Are there any other "sub-Elite" FAs?
Players who could opt out
Oj mayo says he will opt out
Chris Paul - Don't have a shot in hell
Dwight Howard - Same
Andrew Bynum - Wouldn't touch with a 10' pole
Josh Smith - Don't need a PF
Al Jefferson - Don't need a PF
David West - Don't need a PF
Paul Milsap - Don't need a PF
Manu - Too old
Carl Landry - Can't build team around him
Kevin Martin - I'd sign, but not for max money or anything close.
JJ hickson - Don't need a PF
Players who could opt out
Oj mayo says he will opt out - Seems like a headache, but the guy can ball. I don't think we could ge anyone better.
Iggy - Again, he'd be my #1, a winner and a team player
JR Smith - Nope, great off the bench, like Jamal Crawford, don't fall in the start money trap
Monta Ellis - Never going to lead a team beyond an 8-seed.
Martin, Mayo and "Iggy" are the only players I'd even look at off this list. I'd be interested to see how everyone else felt about those 3.
In a year with great free agents, like last time, only to get the 3rd rate stuff at premium prices. They should kep the money till next year...but who'd trust him with it?
I bet Larry Brown would just love to work for Joe Dumars again.
Firing Frank isn't the wrong move per se but it's a little troubling that only one coach has ever lasted more than two years under Joe D. If I were Gores I would be telling Joe this is his last chance to get it right. New coach, cap room, and some building blocks named Drummond and Monroe and possibly Knight. If he can't make that work, it'll be time for new management.
Gores wanted Frank, Dumars wanted Woodson.
That's too bad. He seemed like a decent guy. The team has a little bit of talent, but they're young. That's a coach-firing-presser waiting to happen for a coach.
Good luck to him.
also needs to hit the unemployment line, drafting SG's year in and year out has not helped this team win
In two of the past three years, we've taken bigs in the first round.
If you're counting 2nd round picks, I know we've taken a couple of SG's.
How often do 2nd round picks work out in the NBA?
...the trade for Iverson while Billups was still in hi prime was the straw that broke the camel's back...Dumars will not change, and the losing records are proof, he needs to go
Billups and Iverson were PG's. what are you talking about?
...is that it was another TERRIBLE move by Dumars
were close to their prime. Dumars should of tried to milk another year or two out of Billups but he was clearly going downhill
Billups Averaged 17.9, 19.5, 16.5 and 17.5 points per game and over 5 assists per game for each of the 4 years after he left the Pistons and lead the Nuggets to the Western Conference Finals....so yeah, i would say he was still in his prime
Basically any pick outside of the top five, it's hard to get an impact player. Considering Joe D. has never picked inside the top five since he was a young GM, he's found some pretty good value picks.
Because he's te only GM dumb enough to insist his teams going on these little mini-winning streaks at the end of the season. They could be tied for the 3rd slot in the lottery right now. Instead they could nd up with the 8th slot...before a "ping pong ball" is drawn.
From what I am hearing Tom Izzo has ties with Tom Gores and will be top candidate, also Bill Laimbeer's name is in the mix.
The roster is terrible. We have one borderline All-Star (Monroe), one very good prospect (Drummond), and everyone else would pretty much be a 8th or 9th man off the bench on any team over .500.
I wasn't a fan of Sheed's act before he got here, but I found him to be a pretty refreshing player.
Post? Check (although he wasn't fond of it, he did have post moves).
Play D? Check.
BALL DON'T LIE!!!
Maybe, but why hasn't he received a good job already?
Because the players he was a dick to in his playing days are now the ones in charge of hiring decisions. I love Laimbeer, but I'm not gonna pretend he was real popular around the league.
I sure wouldn't mind bringing him to coach, though.
Yeah. They're gonna hire a head coach from the wnba.
Laimbeer should take the job
What's he doing now? Last I checked (and this was way way back) he was coaching the Shock. He still do that?
I think he just took over coaching duties for the New York Liberty which signed a bunch of old Shock players, kinda like the band getting back together.
So it makes sense...
Byron Scott is available. My Cavs just took him out too.
Dumars still hasn't recovered from the Darko pick. He needs to go.
Thank God. Hope they raise the stakes this time.
to the Pistons? The run of six straight eastern conference finals with back to back finals appearances seem like ages ago.
(Contractually required speculation)
...but if there was ever a time and a team, this seems like the perfect one.
He knows how to coach 2 bigs, he obviously knows how to coach young players, location, etc.
The only thing I'd worry is the Pistons drafting Trey Burke. That floop slap right in front of Izzo was one of the greatest things I've ever seen in my life, I can't see Izzo coaching Burke the very next year.
If Izzo thought Burke was the best available player, he wouldn't give a crap about that floor slap.
are not going to draft Burke. They have a log jam at point, nothing great, but just enough already. They need a solid wing scorer/defender. My guess is Oladipo if he is there.
Any new HC appears to be academic if Trader Joe isn't shown the door as well. Dumars was excellent early on establishing a branding...but maybe time for him to move on as well?
I'm not quite sure why they hired him in the first place. Stupid decision. Joey D needs to get his act together and make a smart coaching hire or hit the road himself. How a guy can go from unquestioningly one of the best front office guys in all of pro sports to one of the absolute worst in a span of 5 years is completely dumbfounding.
And I know it will never happen, but I feel obligated to throw this out every time the Pistons go on a coaching search: Bill Laimbeer.
I think he still wants to coach, but doesn't necessarily have the energy/passion to be a coach. You heard all about it when he almost became the Lakers coach again this season. All those ridiculous requests, with not wanting to really travel to away games being the most telling of them all. I can honestly see him as a Pat Riley type front office guy. Someone who can be a mentor to a lesser name coach and has a majority say in personnel decisions and strategy without having to be with the team 24/7. Now that is something I'd take over the Joey D regime any day.
I thought that Frank and Dumars was going to be a firing combo? This teams needs a completely fresh new direction.
The day we signed Charlie V and Ben Gordon, I knew the Pistons were screwed for the 5-8 years. I said it that very day.
If the Pistons are smart, they don't go after anybody in this crappy free agency class, and wait to spend that money in 2014 !
Yes it is another bad season, but get as much cap space as possible freed up and make a run, and while your at it, keep drafting in the draft.
They need to get rid of stuckey ( if somebody offers a 2nd take it), do not bother resigning Calderon or any other decent players. I would resign none of those free agents that come from our roster. I would talk to Monroe about an extension..Clean House
You got Knight, Drummond and Monroe, Jerebko, Singler, Kravtsov,Middleton,English
8 guys, need 6, well 2 draft picks gives you 10 guys and 4 holes to fill, if you have stuckey somehow thats 11, Go young and cheap, buy 2nd round draft picks and fill 2 of those holes, and find somebody else undrafted
this team needs to just straight up suck in 2013-14, and than go from their
suck it up, take the losses in 2013, and go hard in summer 2014.
let 2013-14 be rock bottom
clean house and use all that cap room to do something
but knowing the pistons, they will spend this money on a buch of cut rate free agents ( see charlie v and Ben gordon ) and do the same shit all over.
And yes, I am for Laimbeer as head Coach
Byron Scott is out in Cleveland, too. I wonder if Dan Gilbert will finally make a large enough offer to Tom Izzo? Izzo isn't having nearly as much fun in EL as he was the last time Gilbert was throwing money around.
needs to figure out how to utilize both Moose and Drummond. Together, they don't mesh well because they both need to be down low or have space to be effective. It would restrict the freedom of spacing with both of them on the floor. Drummond looks to be the future NBA star.
They actually got a good core of young talent, but is still far away from becoming a playoff contender.
A Lamar Odom type player as a bridge between Monroe and Drummond. They can play together but I don't think the lineup will be as effective with one of them on the floor
NBA coaches have little impact on games. Only the great ones do, and that is what makes them great. This roster is young, I think they should go after a out of the box type coach. A coach from the college ranks I think would fit with this younger roster. He can't be one of the I control everything type college coaches, like Izzo. The best guy for the job IMO is Bill Self.
This probably won't happen, but it is the kind of hire this team needs.
Fire Joe Dumars or the Pistons will continue to be mediocre at best.
I've recently realized that it is absolutely impossible for Sportscenter to not mention the Lakers and/or Kobe every single day. Every. Single. Day.
It may seem harsh to fire Frank from a team with a bad roster after two years but the knock on him has always been inability to develop talent. Drummound's success in the NBA will depend heavily on the next coach they bring in IMO.
While LeBron wins all the titles.