Espn Nba Mock draft; MHoops POV
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7712831/nba-mock-draft-version-1
Behind a paywall so I know I'm limited in sharing completely.
Some interesting items -
-Anthony Davis from Kentucky goes first, and they basically say it doesn't matter what team, everyone will select him #1.
-For those who care they have the Pistons taking Andre Drummond at 6. Everything I read says how much of a project he is, but you can't teach size.
-The big shock to me was at 8 to Cleveland, Cody Zeller. Did anybody hear about him coming out. That would really hurt Indiana, right?
-Sullinger at 13 which kind of worries me. His stock has kind of fallen which might benefit him staying next year and entering a weaker draft. I'm hoping never to see him in the Big Ten ever again.
-Meyers Leonard at 18, which everything I have read say he is all but gone. What a waste of talent for ILL. That is tough on a fanbase.
-Draymond Green at 28 to the Heat, which makes way too much sense.
-And Finally no Trey Burke or Tim Hardaway. Let's hope they both read ESPN. Although I know they both said they're coming back, Scout mentioned that they wouldn't totally buy that decision just yet. Both will explore a bit.
Overall looks like a deep draft with a ton of youth, I suppose that's if everyone in the Mock actually does come out.
I hope I get traded to Jacksonville.
that I question Sullinger's pro potential. He doesn't handle taller defenders well, and he'll see a lot of them in the NBA (he's barely taller than William Buford). He's also not exceptionally athletic. I'd worry about his legs being different lengths, too. He'll really need to improve his skills to be a player who can start on a good team, I think.
he also has no vertical. he doesn't play above the rim and the release point on his hooks and turnarounds is low enough to be blocked by superior defenders.
He's a widebody who doesn't play above the rim. The last great 6'8" NBA PF who was a widebody and not hyper-athletic was.... ???
Barkley? WAY more athletic than Sullinger. Who does he project into? IE "If everything goes right Sullinger has _______'s Career". Maybe Carlos Boozer? But Boozer is a better shooter and in much better shape.
I see Sullinger as a more mentally put-together version of Zach Randolph. Other body-type comparisons: Elton Brand, Luis Scola, Paul Millsap, Carl Landry, David West, etc. None of those guys will be going to the Hall of Fame, but they've all been very solid NBA power forwards. I don't necessarily see Sullinger being a superstar, and he's got a pretty limited ceiling defensively, but I could definitely see him being a very productive player at the next level.
I immediately thought of Brand but Randolph isn't a bad comparison either. As compared to either of those though, I see Sullinger as having a lower skill set. Of course this could develop over time, but he seems far behind where Brand was coming out of college.
Also my memory is a little fuzzy, but wasn't Randolph a more athletically gifted player in college (early NBA) than Sullinger, who has just changed his game as he has aged?
Even back in college, Randolph carried around some extra weight, and he's never been an explosive leaper. He's always just been strong with really good hands and a knack for scoring. In terms of body composition and explosiveness, I think he's always been pretty similar to Sullinger.
March 21st, 2012 at 11:52 AM ^
For the old school people on the board I would compare Sullinger to Othella Harrington out of Georgetown. He made it in the league for a little while, primarily as a wide body for rebounds and fouls.
A more recent comparison which I think is pretty good was DeJuan Blair out of Pitt. He plays for San Antonio now and has carved out a role as a guy off the bench who plays D, rebounds, and gets garbage points when Duncan needs a breather. He averaged @ 9 pts, 6 rbs, in 21 min a game this year.
The answer to your question is Elton Brand. He is 6-8 or 6-9 and 250+. I remember having trouble figuring out what position he would play coming out of Duke. Same general idea- not an above the rim player, not physically gifted, not big enough to guard centers and not athletic/quick enough to guard PF.
His career turned out pretty well. I think the big difference is that Elton Brand's footwork was impeccable. He could create his shot against bigger players with good footwork (drop step and step back). He also used his footwork and positioning to be a very good rebounder. I don't think Sullinger is on that same level of footwork, but his camp has to sell him as Elton Brand 2.0.
Also no real reason for him to come back draft stock-wise. He is not going to get bigger or more athletic. He pretty much is who he is going to be. In fact coming back this year hurt his stock since he was a fringe top-10 player last year [before everyone pulled out of that draft]. But, if he loves college and loves college basketball I could see him coming back. But I doubt he comes back for draft stock reasons.
The difference, though, is that Brand is about two inches taller, and he has longer arms...I don't mean to say that Sullinger will stink (though, like I said, I'd be concerned about his legs). I think he could be a sort of Charles Oakley type if he was willing to take on that role. I imagine he'll be a pretty good rebounder.
Oh I agree, I don't think he is on Brand's level coming out of college, I just think that is who his camp should be selling him as.
Heights are always overestimated/modified, but Sullinger is actually listed between 6-9 and 6-10 [with a 7'-2 wingspan], while Brand was always listed as 6-9. So height-wise they are close.
I don't actually see Sullinger as a great rebounder. I think he will end up being a journeyman type PF. Sort of a 7th or 8th man in a rotation who gives you 10-15 minutes a game with a 8 pts 4 rbs kind of line.
I think that Brand is a poor example because looking at a player's listed height and weight alone is a huge mistake in trying to say they play the same type of game. For starters, Sullinger seems to be 6'9 going on 6'7 the way he plays due to his limited vertical, release point, and tendency to lean into defenders when he shoots the ball. That and the fact that I suspect he will not truly be 6'9 when officially measured.
Secondly, and far more importantly, is the reach of the players being compared. At the NBA "combine" Brand was measured at 6'9.5" in shoes, with a 7'5.5" wingspan, bringing him to an unusually impressive standing reach of 9'2". For comparison to players who more closely resemble Brand's reach here are some players within an inch in standing reach of Brand that seem totally unlike Sullinger: Tyson Chandler, Lamarcus Aldridge, Andrew Bogut, Chris Bosh, Eddy Curry, Channing Frye, and even Kevin Durant.
Brand's reach was such an outlier he had the reach of many players 6'11 or even 7'0 who have played center in their careers. Brand has even played some center, and done so quite well because of his reach and lower body size/strength. Another vast difference between Brand and Sullinger is that Sullinger averaged 1.0 bbg this year while Brand left Duke averaging 2.2 bbg, and has averaged as many as 2.5 bbg in the NBA for two different seasons. I'll be surprised if Sullinger ever averages 1.0 bbg in the NBA.
Considering the 20+ games of Sullinger I've seen, including probably 30+ shots of his being blocked in thoe games, I think he'll be nothing more than a bench player in the NBA who can score occassionally on the block against similar back-up players when they both sub in for 20 minutes a game, but he will never be anything more.
March 21st, 2012 at 10:12 AM ^
What about "Big Baby" Glen Davis? He's listed as 6'9" and about 290 lbs, so probably a little bit heavier than Sullinger, but I think are very similar in athleticism.
...I also like DeJuan Blair who hasn't been mentioned.
David West was also a good.
The player I think he most resembles is Tyler Hansbrough.
March 20th, 2012 at 10:25 PM ^
What? What? What?
Barkley was only 6'4'' (official height says 6'5'' but even Chuck admits that's BS) and is argubly one of the most athletic players in NBA history.
Sweet Jesus, watch how incredible this highlight is...
Some NSFW lyrics.
I would say Charles Barkley and Jared Sullinger are polar opposites. They are about as different of players as you can get at the same position.
Michael Sweetney 2.0
Nah. Sweetney is twice the player Sullinger will ever be.
March 21st, 2012 at 12:15 AM ^
I hate saying this, but I might cheer for Ohio State to win the Tournament so that Sullinger isn't the least bit tempted to return for another year. No matter what we think about Sullinger, someone is going to take a chance on him in the first round. That means a lot of guaranteed money.
Hopefully, he realizes that it will take many of his fellow grads their entire lives to make as much money as he would make on his first NBA contract, and leave as projected.
They have the Bulls over the Thunder winning the finals (Bulls with pick 30)
/I know this is also the current standings
//I hate Miami
///Go Bulls
Is Sullinger definitely going pro? Is Zeller? I'm surprised he is so high on the board. Anyone else leaving early other than the Illinois center?
neither THJ nor burke could crack the 1st round in this draft.
we're not going to hear anything concrete on zeller or sullinger before they exit the tournament. but if i was a betting man, i'd bet zeller stays. i'm less confident on sullinger, so no bets there.
I think whether Zeller and Sullinger leave could depend on how their teams do in the tournament.
I hear Sully Sullinger really knows how to crash the boards.
I do not believe this necessarily accurately represents the viewpoint of the marching band...
I was wondering how long it was going to take for someone to notice that
Why am I not suprised that the Pistons would be picking a "project" and "you cant teach height"...F*CK THAT... I am sick of the Pistons picking guys like Darko and Daye (skinner than Tayshaun) because they are tall and...thats it.
MMB- Michigan Marching Band. Easy mistake to make.
is it just me or does this draft class look very deep ? I think theres a good chance a few of these guys stay in college another year becuase of how much talent there is.
The most telling thing about this years depth is the lack of International players. My guess would be that it's not due to lack of international talent but because of the depth in college.
and hope he leaves but why no discussion of deshawn thomas. Has anybody been watching college basketball lately? That kid is lights out. I hope he goes before Sullinger.
Nope, the younger Zeller is considered by pretty much everyone to be the better pro prospect.
is a similar pro that lasted a while. if sullinger improves his range he could stick awhile.
March 20th, 2012 at 11:15 PM ^
I don't know if he'll be elite, I personally don't think so (and if so, not for a long time)...but I think he'll stick around for a looong time in the NBA. Actually, I think his career will be similar to Michigan's own...Juwan Howard.
I know it's taboo to compare black to white or vice versa but both were wide bodies that physically dominated the competition in college but were limited athletically and a bit short for the PF position. I see them having similar careers.