Peppers at 10, which seems low.
One way or another the band will end up going. The bad PR from not sending it is worth more than $400K.
someone get a hold of stephen ross. ask him to make a spontaneous 250k donation to the band.
its not like he doesn't have the money.
I wouldn't pony up the cash. I'm sure his views are different than mine, but IMO this was an AD decision to sign the game contract, and the AD's responsibility to send them. This shouldn't be paid for by a rich alum, or the band member's parents, the AD should pick up the tab as a matter of principle.
Also, didn't I read that the AD is projecting an $11,700,000 surplus? The AD can't keep that, why not spend some of it?
Does the athletic department typically fund the marching band? I do not believe this is the case in any high school that I know of...but I don't know how that works in universities.
They do for bowl games and conference games like State, Ohio, Purdue, maybe IU and NU and then ND in the nonconference (all the games they can bus to).
My position is really based more in the thought that this is a replacement home game than thinking the band needs to go everywhere. Well, that and thinking that Alabama can't have something we don't, although that's probably just the inner six year old talking.
Thanks for the info
I should use the disclaimer that this is info I've picked up here. I know the gist of it is right, but I could be messing up a detail somewhere.
I'm pretty sure the band only takes two road trips a year and I'm pretty sure the band dudes have said that they don't receive Athletic Department money for any of those trips with the possible exception being the bowl game.
I felt initially that DB may be putting the impetus on the band to fund the trip for themselves...but without knowing how this is typically funded I wasn't sure.
I'm getting my info from the same source as you, and you usually have a good memory for those things.
Reposting part of what I posted in response to this question in another thread:
The MMB is an ensemble of the School of Music. Athletics doesn't pay for normal away game trips, though it has in the past offered to do so for bigger games (for instance, the MMB almost travelled to the 2006 PSU game based on the team wanting them there, but it ended up falling through when PSU couldn't give us seats). Athletics pays for the MMB to attend bowl games.
Yet the point here is this is not a normal road game, nor has Athletics treated it as such until Dave Brandon feigned sticker shock on the cost of the band. Yet as I pointed out yesterday, Athletics knows exactly how much it costs to send a band somewhere, as it deals with the costs of such a thing every year during bowl planning. If they didn't intend to take the band for cost reasons, the information to make that decision was readily available before the contract was even signed and that could have been stated to the band far earlier. Dave Brandon has acted as if it was some sort of surprise. Not so much.
Three days ago, I received an email invite from the AD and Phire Branding to participate in a survey. I'm guessing I am not the only one who was invited, but neverless thought I'd share it with MGoNation in case it was not widely distributed.
The body of the email stated:
"University of Michigan Athletics has contracted Phire Branding Company to perform the following brief survey. The goal of the survey is to provide Michigan Athletics with a better understanding of how to connect and build stronger relationships with their supporters. The information will be kept confidential and will not be used for solicitation. Results will remain anonymous and are not cross-referenced."
Please help do your part in supporting Michigan Athletics by responding with your suggestions on how the Athletic Department could better connect and builder stronger relationships with its supporters.
Russale2012 seems to believe all problems are solved by using OPM (other people's money), wait sorry didn't mean to get political. /s
and rename the band "Ross"
Thanks for the update. Sent my very polite (I'm not being sarcastic) email to Mr. Brandon yesterday.
It was making clear that no one should be using official university or club channels to express their dissatisfaction.
What other channels should people be using?
I agree that people shouldn't be venting when they email, but that address is supposed to be for the general public, as I understand it. It's not Brandon's private email address.
It means to not use listserve, facebook etc...
OK, that makes sense.
Of course, the fact that this is apparently happening drives home what a dubious decision it is. We've talked for months about wanting to give our fans this "rare opportunity" on a national stage against the defending national champ, and yet when push comes to shove, we decide to get cheap. If you're going to schedule a game like this, pull out all the stops. Make it a truly once-in-a-lifetime experience for the U-M fans who make the trip.
Did it mean that you shouldn't send messages from university or club* channels?
*I don't even know what a "club" is in this context.
in this case club refers to the Alumni Association's Local Club chapters.... basically they are asking alumni leaders not to use 'official capacities' to further the debate or voice personal opinions on behalf of the club represented.
I assume they meant people shouldn't be sending emails to Brandon from official or club channels.
They don't want them using official channels to complain to the media..
To the airwaves young people. Obviously not UM stations though. I better not hear anyone messing with the free form of WCBN with calls for the band in Dallas. Or that dorm movie channel (if it still exists).
Let them be pissed. They are dumb.
Yea...the people who hired Brady Hoke, finished huge renovations in Michigan Stadium, Crisler Center and Yost, pulled off the Big Chill @ The Big House and Michigan's first ever night game are complete idiots...
The nerve of some people.
You can be dissatisfied. You have every right not to agree. But to act like Brandon and his staff have done nothing, aren't qualified, or simply are a bunch of "dumb" people is absolutely ridiculous.
It's also ungrateful. Like Brandon as a person or not, he's done PLENTY of positive things at Michigan.
I for one give him a pass for making this decision if it is truly based on money. It makes PERFECT sense to me to not bring the band to a road (not bowl...ROAD) game when they rarely travel on the road anyway. Especially when it is going to cost twice as much as it does to get the team there and back.
If you don't give him a pass, that's perfectly fine by me...that is your opinion. But the name calling, the overlooking all the good this administration has brought, the acting like this is the end of the world (like cancelling the band during games in efforts for 100% piped in music would be) is simply not right.
Do better people, do better.
You are right in that people can have a tendency to overlook good when dealing with bad. Its true - good people do make bad decisions. That said, people that do more good than bad shouldn't get a "pass" for the stupid decisions they make.
Its been made clear to everyone that Brandon's number one concern in his role as AD is the Michigan brand. And his decision not to send the band is what I consider to be a not-so-insignificant dent in the Michigan brand. Angering the majority of the fan base with a decision to save a few bucks is not smart (unless, obviously, the decision puts the AD in the red). Does that make him a dumb person? Not necessarily. But it definitely makes it clear where his priorities really are and that does not necessarily jive with what Michigan people care about most.
Maybe your last statement should be changed: You (meaning Dave Brandon) sleep in the bed you lie in.
I suppose a decision which put the athletic department into a debt that it couldn't service would make this a non-starter, but considering that just yesterday Brandon announced a projected surplus in the department of a little over $11 million, as well as the fact that, by all appearances, the band was part of the plan, I believe people have a right to complain about this decision.
You are absolutely correct, however - it doesn't make him a bad guy. He brought us Brady Hoke and a wonderful football staff, a top-notch WBB coach today as well as others, and he's managed to keep the department in the black despite financing major facility overhauls. He's also brought a very solid marketing campaign to the program, and this is where I go out on a limb and say that the band contributes to the brand, and to not have an iconic accessory to the program in Dallas will hurt, in my opinion.
You realize there was a 200 plus reply thread on this subject before Brian posted anything at all, right?
I don't think Brandon's dumb. I think he's evil. There's a difference.
Because he won't send the band to a road game? Or is there more?
What type of press has this been getting in and around Michigan? I'm curious if it's just the MGoBlog/internet fans expressing displeasure or if it's more widespread than that.
I didn't get the chance to listen, but several of the podcast segments for Sam Webb's show are about the band.
FWIW, I have a Big Ten category in my Google news page, and the Bleacher Report 'article' that features the announcement about the band is second on the list.
Its been a BLACKEYE for Brandon..it makes Mich look CHEAP and Brandon look like a greedy corproate CEO...this will haunt him and UM if they dont fix it and fix it QUICK..the anger will only grow and when the game happens and there's no" Hail to the Victors" people will be even more steamed...remember all that crap about branding? and then you do THIS?
I emailed DB. I also think that DB is absolutely crazy like a fox. In my tinfoil-hat world, DB has always planned on having the band go to dallas and not paying for it.
DB negotiates seats for band in contract. Months later (in the summer, right after spring football, when M football is out of the news, notice this didn't come out before the spring game) DB says "oh we have no money to send the band, it will cost $400k (twice as high as some estimates). Many push donations or suggest to wealthy donors that they cover the cost of the band. Let's say the AD agrees to match dollar for dollar so that they only need $200k donated.
Boom. DB kept Michigan Football at the forefront of peoples' minds and saved the AD $200k.
Crazy. Like a fox.
I don't agree with everything DB does, but I also believe he's very intelligent and canny.
That might be a savvy financial move in a vacuum, but keep in mind that the goal is to market the program and make it successful, not just make as much of a profit as possible.
We shouldn't placate him by ponying up extra for things that should be included in the cost of a ticket. Where does that stop? Next year: "Oh, I know we have an $11 million surplus, but if you want the team wearing winged helmets on the road, the fans are gonna have to pay the equipment shipping costs or settle for the Arby's helmets." (Yes, I realize this is a somewhat ridiculous exaggeration ... I hope.)
I think the Athletic Dept. should pay for it. You can be intelligent and canny and put that to bad use, of course.
Football team expenses do not equal band expenses. I don't see how this should lead one to reasonably believe he would do anything remotely similar with the actual team.
That's probably true, but I think it's fair to consider the band, the stadium, the banner and various other peripherals as part of the football program from a brand standpoint.
Exactly this. Didn't see your post until after I made mine below, but I was thinking the same exact thing.
It almost kind of seems like Brandon is doing this on purpose. In the end, the band will go, regardless of how they get financed to go.
Either the University or donors will pony up the money for it. I feel like DB may have reserved band slots, and then pull the bluff of not sending the band initially, and then coming around to sending them. It keeps Michigan in the papers during a relatively slow time of year and then when the band eventually gets to go, it makes for a great story on gameday that I'm sure will be talked about repeatedly. The story will be either:
1) Michigan alums pull together and finance their band
2) UofM and Dave Brandon put tradition before money
Let's say this story didn't exist, and the band is there as scheduled to bd, nobody will talk about it. It becomes a complete non-story. Now that the band isn't being allowed to go, if DB comes around to authorize the band to go, he is kind of looked upon as a hero that put tradition first over money.
I guess it has potential to backfire on him, but if my suspicions are true, in the end it's a pretty brilliant move.
Just me .02
WIthout even getting into a scenario where everyone calls his bluff, I don't get how putting something considered so negative into the press and then backtracking is good PR. It just seems like bad press that gets backed off of to me.
Marketing studies have shown that a customer appreciates an establishment more after they err and then correct said error as opposed to the establishment not having erred at all. Staff on some high end hotels are actually trained to make minor errors that the customer may notice but then correct the error to rectify the situation to garner some customer satisfaction.
I may be reading too much into this, but just my theory.
Yes it's true. You are now invested in that institution.
Some of the most interesting career advice I ever heard was to not be a model employee. You are too easy to ignore and take for granted. The advice was to screw up a little, do something controversial but noticeable. It gets your boss invested in grooming you, and your "turnaround" becomes his/her personal victory.
Doing all parts of your job perfectly takes more time and energy than I can budget in my day and still maintain sanity. So I do my job well, but not perfectly. I have to give myself padding for mistakes, which inevitably happen in the work world.
A good amount of that was news to me. As much as it makes sense, it's ridiculous that the way to build some goodwill is to piss off a big part of the fanbase.
I would urge the OP, as a club leader, to not heed their advice. They are trying to suppress dissent and keep everyone in line by quieting any opposing opinion. Speak up and speak often!
This isn't a human rights issue in China. Don't be a dick about this OP.
If this had been a home and home with 'Bama instead of a one-off at Jerry World, would the band have traveled to Tuscaloosa?
Nope! So I don't see the big deal here.
Maybe not, but this game replaces a home game. It's not a "road" game.
The game will not be played in Ann Arbor, right? It is a road game.
It's not a true home game, but to treat this as the same thing as the trips to Oregon or Washington is disingenuous as well, as Michigan is giving up a home simply because Jerry Jones was willing to give the athletic department a huge amount of money.
-but that's a completely different scenerio than the one we're discussing and disgusted with. We would have had our band at home; 'Bama would have had their band for their home game, in this theoretical home-and-home series. But this, instead, is a one-time event (not to mention that it effectively replaces a home game on our schedule AND that the contract itself guaranteed both schools that their bands were included in the 'invite'), not at all, as Brandon wants to call it, a regular road game.
Kinda like comparing one apple to two oranges...
Why are we sure the MMB wouldn't have gone to Tuscaloosa? According to this:
the band goes on one or two road trips per year.
An aside... let the record show I do not support DB's decision to not send the band. Utterly ridiculous.
This takes away from the experience for the players and we should never do that. Especially in a big stage game.
for manipulating the alumni, fans and donors, by "lying" that the AD can't afford to send the band and miraculously comes up with the funds at the last minute and the band is in Dallas.
So genius = lying and manipulating???? Sounds like politics to me. Tell the people one thing when you know it will incite a movement and get his way without spending the money has already has to cover it. MANIPULATION.
Not a trait that would inspire me as a fan. I have yet to hear one solid reason why the band isn't going. The AD has the money. It is a special event. Home much do all the "unique" unis that look like crap cost?
Sorry, but Brandon is losing respect and trust really quickly. He lost my respect and trust instantly.
As a former MMB member and current football season ticket holder who donates to both the MMB and the Athletic Department, I am planning to reduce my Victors Club donation in 2012 and increase my donation to the MMB.
If enough other people cut their Athletic Dept donation and sent the difference to the MMB (soon), the band could defray much of the cost of the trip using money originally earmarked for the Athletic Department.
I like irony.
I asked the question above and you seem to indicate that MMB is funded separate from athletics....do you know if it is common practice for the ADept to fund the bands travel expenses?
Edit:Justingoblue indicated that the AD does fund travel for some road trips.
In all honesty, I see the band as part of the team. They work just as hard as the players and for them to be told that they are not going is insulting. DB should be ashamed by this. The athletic department has a surplus of cash anyways.
If this had been a home & home, the Michigan band would not have travelled to Alabama. Pretty much the only road games the band goes to are Notre Dame, Michigan State and Ohio State. All big games within a few hours drive and therefore easy to shuttle the band there on buses. Not only are there 250-300 kids in the band, but moving all of the instruments (esp. the tubas & percussion) is difficult and costly.
The one exception is the bowl game, but usually the bowls pay a ton of money to the school that partially if not fully funds the band's travel costs.
Now, don't get me wrong. I think the band should be there, as this is almost like a pre-season bowl game. It's especially a gut-punch to the band kids that they already have family with tickets to the game based on the indication that they were going. So i'm not defneding Brandon. I think the negative PR hit he's taking for this makes him look petty and cheap. But the reality is, if this were a normal road game there is almost no chance the band would be going. For those that remember all the road trips we took out West in the early 2000's (Washington, Oregon, UCLA) the band did not travel to any of those games.
Call him and leave a message!!! I have already left 20 today 734-764-9416... There is still room on the machine so help me out and get this baby full
This was set up on purpose, national stage, great programs, national audience. It's not just another game, or a home/home. Gotta hear the MMB play the Victors after a Denard TD. If Bama brings their band, and M doesn't, I'll laugh at DB for the bad move, and be pissed at the same time.
That's the thing--if Alabama has their band there and we don't, Michigan looks super-cheap. Never mind that it is a much shorter and inexpensive trip for the Alabama band. People watching won't think about that. They will just think that Michigan (and Brandon) is cheap. Which, given the payout for the game, he pretty much is. It's not like Michgan is getting 1 mil for the game and people want him to spend half of that on the band.