It paints a picture of Tressel being a very sympathetic figure. Here's my problem with it though. All the good things you do, don't change the rules you decided knowingly to ignore. If Jim Tressel is a truly good person (and I don't suspect that he's an "evil" person) then he can continue these types of things without actually being the head coach. The two things aren't exclusive to each other.
Eleven Warriors piece on Tressel
He is a liar and cheat. This has been proven beyond a reasonable doubt. Many have done this before and they had to deal with the consequences of their actions. He will do the same. They will cry on each others shoulders about how much of a good guy he is, but we all know that I will not ask my children to model thier lives after JT, and I doubt the majority of Buckeye fans would either. It is funny that TSIO has had a bad guy as coach for the past 100 years. They hire filth and cover it up as long as possible. I hope the school gets the death penalty, but 20 or 30 schollies wouldn't be too bad either. NCAA knows it has to get this shit undercontrol. The media circus surrounding this will ensure that some form of harsh punishiment is issued.
Sounds like there's no need to, like, complete the investigation. Or have a hearing. Or get formal responses from OSU or Tressel.
'No, no!' said the Queen. 'Sentence first - verdict afterwards.'
This is a penal proceeding akin to a criminal trial, so the finder of fact may, but does not have to, take such things as proven. So the prosecution would be wise to prove it up.
BOOM, Barbri Rules of Evidence review'd
It's sorta like the NCAA's impermissible benefits rules. So if you were, say, a car dealer in suburban Columbus, you couldn't offer better deals to "your guys" than you do to outsiders.
The 14th amendment version is easy: Notre Dame. Every year, people are like, "maybe they'll do something this time?" And every year... not so much.
OK, enough already. Take it over to MgoLawer.
Don't you know this is an Engineering blog?
Music, Theatre & Dance and Art & Design rule North Campus with an iron artistic fist.
As long as the NCAA DOES DO a complete investigation, that will be fine with me, regardless of outcome, but it should be COMPLETE. From what has been uncovered up to this point, the NCAA cannot limit its investigation to whether Tressel lied and the appropriate punishment for that. This investigation has to go deeper to find out (a) whether the 28 athletes did what the article says, (b) whether Pryor got his 8 cars in a ways that are consistent with NCAA rules, (c) whether the things the author now suggests he could not adequately establish but suspects did in fact occur and (d) whether the other sorts of things rumored did go on (girls, housing, etc.). The NCAA has to do more than merely investigate what has already come to the surface.
I remember a thread from quite a while ago where you mentioned that OCI hadn't gone so well. Hope everything worked out.
But I found a pretty decent gig in Lansing working for a very large corporation. And it only took me 2.5 years to find something. Thanks for the inquiry.
Glad to hear it. Things are trending upwards, but it's still a tough market.
Nice judgement you've made. And even more distressing that it got many up votes. Tressel is a man like another other, which is to say fallible, and sometimes the fallible don't just make mistakes, they do things to succeed that they shouldn't.
He should have gotten fired, OSU should be penalized for lack of institutional control, which will require major penalties. All warranted. But your attack, contempt and blanket judgement is ridiculous.
I am sure he aspires to be a good person and in most accounts likely is. However, win if you can, lose if you must, but cheat all the time, cannot be the core of a coach's psyche. Two decades of shady practices show more than just a few poor decisions...it is either intentional or the man needs some serious therapy.
JT sent kinds to the hospital?
Doctors can be boosters too.
cmon you guys, everyone knows that breaking the rules is somehow necessary for helping kids. and god told him to do it, ncaa rules dont apply to god. duh
I thought Buckeye logic was to blame ESPN and "snitches."
I'm sure Tressel is a great person to all the people on his inner circle-but does that make him an overall great person? Not in my opinion.
JT is a LIAR.
11W can spin until their bucknuts explode but they can't spin that away.
to paraphrase costanza, its not spin if you believe it
this is why its good to be a passionate fanatic fan, but its bad to be a delusional homer
He deserves all the flack coming at him. The cover up, not the infraction, led to his demise and crushed his friendly guy image. I used to admire him, despite his allegiance and employment at TSIO, but this is something that cannot be forgotten.
in response to losing Tressel to be very interesting. It's almost like a case study to just observe the Buckeye right now.
The program was on fire,and as Eleven Warrior states, Tressel wasn'r there. The sad truth is, he should have been. He is 100% responsible for this mess and it will live with him forever. Good riddance, hypocrite.
facebook comments below.
Completely co-signed. That is all.
The cleat cheat is perhaps the most damning action - cheating kids at your own camp after leading Bible prayer.
I give credit to 11W for pointing out this event, they went so far as to lead it in a story. At least someone down there is pissed there school looks like the Hurricanes of the 80s.
- The OSU program has made a mockery of sportsmanship, the B1G Ten Commish should rethink his equivocating comments yesterday re OSU and Tressel
- Musberger's PR flakking for Tressel yesterday on a live phone call ("I would have my son play for him" "He was acting in the best interest of his boys") was obliterated by Spielman's "No University is bigger than it's football team"
- Desmond was right - if Tressel had don the right thing for OSU football he would still be coach and the program wouldn't be starting down the barrel of a pissed-off NCAA
It may not be the most costly violation in NCAA terms, but the raffle just makes him look like a complete scumbag. Who would even think of rigging a raffle? It's just a pointlessly crooked thing to do.
I posted these comments under Brian's post. It just doesn't add up that he is looking out for the best interest of others.
I listened to Herbie, Spielman and Smith speak (I'm assuming) after sweatervest resigned but before the SI article came out.
I would love to hear their opinions now. They were stating how he is still a good upstanding person and just made a bad decision on not forwarding the email etc.
But the SI article showed he made arrangements with boosters, signed memorabilia to be sold, fixed raffle's, had an open door policy with the equipment room, let his kids hang out in a shady area of town, lied and turned a blind eye to everything else.
This is not the definition of a good person, moral person, leader, father figure or mentor.
herbie continued to defend tressel last night on espn. went with the "he was protecting his players!!!" party line.
that Tressel is the reason those players were in a position to need "protection" in the first place.
Tressel has had a positive impact on many people. Ramzy's completely right about that.
Tressel lied, then lied again about his lying, then lied again about the lying about his lying. And he has feigned ignorance and gotten away with it on several known occasions.
When the announcement came out yesterday morning, early on Memorial Day, I was angry. I wrote a reply to a post a couple of days ago on this very blog where I praised Tressel for the care he's shown our military (while, of course, simultaneously beating up on him for his flaunting of the rules.) Now, in what appeared to be an effort to sneak his resignation out on a slow news day, he made a day that should be about our heroes into a day about Jim Tressel.
I'm glad people can find good in his works. I hope they can focus on that part of his lesson. The scale has tipped for me now to where the errors and omissions completely overwhelm the good he's tried to do.
I call bullshit. He's clearly been involved with shady dealings at his last two stops and was able to sweep them under the rug because he was winning. Given that there's at least a partial correlation between recruiting classes and success on the field, him turning the other cheek during this "Money, Cash, Hoes" fiasco while the five stars continued to commit leads me to believe he's just a weasel coach who is a master at fabricating a false image.
No one denies that Jim Tressel and Ohio State football players didn't do (or are doing) some amazing things for the local communities and for young fans (both healthy and sick). They certainly did and are. And Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin and Iowa and other football players also visit local children's hospital wings with little more than presence, a smile and an ear.
It's meaningful stuff and it pull the heart-strings. Of course it does.
But the argument was ruined the moment Ramzy wrote about ESPN applying the same investigative resources anywhere else and finding similar or equivalent dirt there too.
That was a very dumb thing to write and not a little bit insulting to teams who lined up against Ohio State (especially when one removes Michigan from the list).
People get pissed off about getting a speeding ticket, and flail about yelling at the police officer saying "well, everybody does it!". Yes, everbody speeds. But you got nabbed. Deal. A lot of schools probably turn a blind eye to improper benefits and official equipment theft. But Tressel's feigned ignorance finally caught up with him so that OSU was nailed going 95 mph - and as luck would have it -in a freaking construction zone. Now a very thick book will be thrown at their heads, and everyone will watch.
OSU fans like Ramzy are pissed off and disappointed, but they fail to realize that there are teams that really do follow the rules or at the very least follow the rules considerably more ardently than OSU. Are they stupid to do so? The NCAA is their own worst enemy , and one can debate the fairness of the rules all day long, but even OSU, Smith, Gee and Tressel signed up to the same rules as everybody else.
But children and families with terminal illness, facing cancer and death? Yeah, it's a helllish blackhole that I don't even like talking about. But I can kind of understand why an OSU fan this week would try to reconcile his current emotions and draft up something related to darkness and lack of hope.
....Just wanted to remind folks that it's not just football players. Several people have mentioned that football teams across the country do this, which is true. While we are giving credit we should also acknowledge that many athletes from other sports do Mott visits; I'll bet that's true at other schools as well.
Sorry for the tangent.
RRod (and Carr before him) did a ton for Mott's. The Michigan players did and continue to do a ton of work for Mott's. Surely that means we can overlook some extra practice time, doesn't it? They aren't cheating... they visit kids at the hospital! On their own time!!
Brian Griese took a sick girl he met at Mott to her prom. Didn't I just read that the football team, former coaches and players raised a sick amount of money for the hospital? Like, 6-digits worth?
So we should be able to pay our players too, right?
Is their somewhere I can find more info on the Griese story? That is awesome.
when I read about it. But I'm a chick, so it's okay.
Rereading it, I'm tearing up again.
After reading that, I found this one as a follow-up as well: http://www.sptimes.com/2004/11/25/Columns/Grief_inspires_a_gift.shtml
The next time somebody asks me what the phrase "Michigan Man" means, I'm forwarding these.
that the guy felt so untouchable that he knowingly let so many loose ends open to his deception. There's no way he could conceivably control every person involved in all of this mess, so as far as I could tell he either a.) put it in the hands of someone else, who let him down, b.) simply believed that none of it was going on as long as he didn't know about it (yeah right), or c.) put all his faith in the "sacred brotherhood" philosophy, which sooner or later breaks down at the foundation.
Either way, guy had to know this day would come if it's been so widespread. Or is it a case of believing your own lies, to the point that he felt he was immovable?
A Buckeye has high personal regard for another Buckeye. What was that bible passage: "Even sinners love those who love them".
(I probably violated a board rule by interjecting religion into my comments. Sorry.)
To me this whole fiasco has revealed Tressel to be the worst kind of public figure that we produce with alarming regularity in America. He's a God and Country loving, values-espousing good guy who lets those exterior facets hide his pure, cold ruthlessness. He is hardwired into both of America's shiny, moral certitude and its metallic capitalist urge to compete and dominate.
Honestly, someone should make a movie about the guy.
That 11W finally put all of the Buckeye wailing and gnashing of teeth over the top - way over the top. If I hear or read one more Tressel apologist try to excuse what the coach did in the name of sick kids, or troops over seas, or washing up before dinner, or helping old ladies across the street, I just may flip my sh-t.
The irony of ironies is that writer after writer has been quoting Tressel's line, "Discipline is what you do when no one is looking." Actually, Jimbo, (can I call you Jimbo?) the line is from Hugh B. Brown, and it goes, "Character is what you do when no one is looking." Yours - at long last - has been exposed for what it is: conflicted, at best.
Let's take the extreme example (hypothetical) and say Tressel pays (from his own pocket) his starters $1000 each month. Now, he is a good guy in the sense that he is helping out others (legally) and yet he knowingly violates the rules to gain a competitive advantage and profit from that advantage. Do these OSU posters think that would be OK?
Because it's not that far removed from what was actually happening.
I understand that this "looking away" from improper benefits for players likely goes on at a number of places but that does not mean it's OK.
And all I been hearing is that this was his only mistake and he shouldn't pay the price for this mistake. They are throwing the SI aritcle out as fiction and painting Braxton Miller as their messiah and Pryor as judas. The lunacy and denial down here is sicking...
Tressel did not establish the great tradition of visiting the Children's Hospital the day before a home game.
Woody Hayes started it. Kudos (I guess) to Tressel for not stopping these visits, but it should not be used to prop him up as a saint for following a Buckeye tradition.
and is disingenious. He attempts to distract the reader from the facts of Tressel's violations by telling you what an amazing human being he is. This is some street magician like sleight of hand he is trying to pull off on the reader. He cheated and Tressel knows the rules of the game, if anyone in your organization runs afoul of the rules it's your ass, as you are the boss and responsible for the program at the end of the day.
In closing, Ramzy makes it seem like no other coaches or players take visits to the hospitals/children's wards in their communities. This is a complete falsehood, as it is actually standard operating procedure for the position and I dare Ramzy to find even one head coach (along with their players) who doesn't make these type of good will visits.
I agree- I actually like 11W and think it is a well-done blog, but Ramzy is such a Tressel-Apologist it is nauseating. He wrote a whole piece trying rashionalize the car scandal by saying it "isn't cost-effective" for auto dealers to give good deals to players, so therefore it must not be happening in Columbus... as if it has never happened anywhere else.
And here he pulls a similar move by making it seem as though the idea of players visiting hospitals is proof that their coach is one of the most tremendous human beings who ever lived. Fine, he made his players visit hospitals, just like every coach in America. In fact, I seem to remember seeing footage of Alabama players visiting sick kids in a hospital. So I guess that means Saban is a wonderful human being too.
is really kind of pathetic. Sick children are heart-wrenching, Troy Smith should be commended for visiting them and bringing light to their otherwise dark world. But it has nothing to do with Jim Tressel and the charges against him. Of course nobody can say anything bad about atheles using their time for such causes, but this peice attaches such endeavors directly with the integrity of a coach when the two things have nothing to do with each other. I don't know the person that wrote the piece and rarely happen upon eleven warriors, but that thread is really kind of exploitive. Come on man, your talking about toddlers with terminal blood disorders and your somehow attaching it to a football coach resigning under investigation. The two have nothing to do with one another, period. I don't care if Troy Smith went to that hospital specifically at Jim Tressel's direction, it simply does not matter.
I bet you not even Jim Tressel would show the lack of integrity shown in that piece.
to what Paul Daugherty of the Cincinnati Enquirer wrote.
Smart man this Mr. Daugherty.
...his shot at last season's BCS title.
He knew he had a top 5 team returning. This had nothing to do with looking out for his players, it was just what it appears to be: Win at all costs. It's the same approach Tressel always has taken. He made a career of cheating because he knows fans will focus on the record and ignore the fact that he was, no matter how they spin it, fielding a team that was no longer comprised of amateur athletes.
It was all about getting the players, and recruiting gets a lot easier when you offer them cars, housing deals, and the common knowledge that the coaches will look the other way as you flaunt your celebrity lifestyle and smoke some weed at a local tatto parlor hangout where they cater to your every need.
For Musburger and Company to be accurate, they just need a slight revision: "Tressel was protecting his BEST players." Guys on the scout team would not have gotten the same treatment.
This Eleven Warriors article trying to shift the narrative to a children's hospital is beyond pathetic and transparently desperate. Too many college teams to list make those visits.
Tressel did not resign because of the pending SI article. He got out as an attempt to stop people from digging for more, because there is more to be found. Nailing him on tattoo-gate is like getting Al Capone on tax evasion. You do what you need to do to nail the corrupt, even though we all know there's more there. The Department of Justice trips up six players in an unrelated investigation and so that's all the school admitted to. But in a short time on campus, Sports Illustrated easily finds scores more involved. Do we really think that's it? Magazines don't even have subpoena power.
Tressel knows that if they keep looking, they'll keep finding. And he knows of other stuff that's a lot worse, so he got out now hoping to end the need for more investigations. This is hardly a new play by a guy who is seeing it all unravel.
It really is a different mindset down there. How can the Bucknuts not be pissed at a guy who is going to leave the program that they profess to love in shambles? I never got a strong beat on USC fans reactions to their NCAA troubles but don't they pretty much universally despise Carroll? How can delusion run so much deeper in Columbus than any other sports mad locale?
The next stage is anger, which should come to full-fruition around the time that the NCAA sets the parameters of their nuclear winter.
"Toxic, lost causes like Ray Small, whom Tressel repeatedly tried for years to wake up and change for the better even though he contributed virtually nothing to Ohio State's gaudy win total during his four years in Columbus.
Small, a championship simpleton, still does not seem to realize that Tressel was out to help him for all of those years. If Small hadn't been sleeping at study tables of flunking out of survey courses at Ohio State while he pretended to be a college student he would have been decapitating rabbits behind a barn in a Steinbeck novel. He was beyond help. Tressel did not care. He probably still thinks he can help him."
This is the sick stuff that reminds me how dillusional people are! Yeah, Ray Small is a screw up, no one denies that. I can remember anytime before Maurice Clarrett went to jail, no one thought he'd ever change. And as of right now, I'd say he's making strides toward a productive life. Regardless, Tressel took a chance on Small. But it wasn't just small. Other teammates of his were doing it as well. Small just reported it.
It's like doing a character assasination on Jose Canseco, which everyone did. But you know what, the man has been pretty much spot on.
Tressel cared about winning more than helping these young men. By selectively inforcing the rules, he only continued to fuel the sense of entitlement college football players have. That trait will harm those players after their playing days are done, not help them.